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October 16, 2008
Shelter Woes Spread From Crown Heights to Bed Stuy

It's hard for a neighborhood to pull itself up when the government keeps pushing it down. On the heels of this summer's shocker that the Department of Homeless Services was planning to move its main intake center from the east side of Manhattan to the Bedford-Atlantic Armory comes news that the Sumner Avenue Armory (now on what's called Marcus Garvey Boulevard) is about to get dumped on as well. As per an email we received yesterday, the shelter, which currently houses 200 men, is scheduled to get more than a thousand new bodies sent its way as a result of the Manhattan dislocation and a reshuffling at Bedford-Atlantic. Sounds like a shaft to us. There's a meeting tonight at 7 p.m. at the St. Christopher-Ottilie Beacon Center (PS 35) 272 MacDonough (between Lewis and Marcus Garvey). For more information you can also call Ms. Blackshear at 347-325-4635, Ms. Robinson at 718-574-8199 or Ms. Cobbs at 347-683-5047.
Important Town Hall Meeting This Thursday [Bed Stuy Blog]
Homeless Intake Center Plan Provokes Broad Opposition [Brownstoner]
Pols Gather to Pan Crown Heights Homeless Plan [Brownstoner]
March, Rally Held Over Crown Heights Homeless Plan [Brownstoner]
Photo from Bed Stuy Banana
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Comments
Shaft is right. It's all about the Benjamins.
Posted by: plgdude at October 16, 2008 9:42 AM
please don't hate on a damn shelter. yeah maybe it's not the most desirable thing to have in one's neighborhood, but you have to face reality, it's a necessity of life. for a lot of people all it can take is one bad life event or tragedy to wind up in such a place.
-rob
Posted by: PitbullNYC at October 16, 2008 9:42 AM
Pitbull,
We're not hating on the existence of shelters, just the fact that the city is shoving a disproportionate burden onto poorer neighborhoods that have a hard enough time dealing with existing quality of life and crime problems as it is without having new ones dumped on it. Crown Heights and Bed Stuy ALREADY do more than their share in this department.
Posted by: brownstoner at October 16, 2008 9:50 AM
I think they should turn the armory in the south slope into a homeless shelter. Or, better yet, the city should build a nice modern mid-rise on fourth avenue to complement the horrid new development there.
Posted by: Polemicist at October 16, 2008 9:56 AM
For once I agree with you Polemicist. You coming tonight???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 16, 2008 9:57 AM
4th avenue is pretty damn fugly. whenever i have friends come over from out of town and they get out of the subway on 4th avenue im always like no, seriously the neighborhood isnt as ugly as that. tho i kinda do sorta like 4th avenue (sometimes i like a dirty streetscape). i found like 50 boxed old school sega genesis games just sitting on the curbed on 4th avenue outside the stop on union a few weeks ago!!! score!
-rob
Posted by: PitbullNYC at October 16, 2008 9:59 AM
rob...are you still drunk from last night?? Why the hell are you going on about 4th Avebue???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 16, 2008 10:04 AM
Instead of arguing over where the homeless should be sheltered, why not fix the problem of homelessness once and for all by addressing the bigger picture so there are no more homeless. After McCain-Obama finds a solution to this problem along with the rest of our current challenges only then can we start thinking about converting these beautiful buildings into condos.
Anyone on the forum ever checked out the interiors of these buildings?
I haven't been inside my self and wonder what shape they're in.
Posted by: EnglishKills at October 16, 2008 10:08 AM
"I think they should turn the armory in the south slope into a homeless shelter."
Hello, try a little Google guys:
"Since the 1980’s, the garrison of the Park Slope Armory has been used as a municipal shelter, and currently hosts a 70-bed program for homeless women ..."
Posted by: SnarkSlope at October 16, 2008 10:11 AM
As much as I'd like to be generous about this and say "But the homeless need a place too" I'd like to point out the difference in day to day quality of life which occcurred in Fort Greene as SOON as the previous residential hotel for homeless men opposite BAM (the parking lot adjacent to Mark Morris is there now) was closed and then demolished.
Before - when there were hundreds of beds there - Fort Greene had our garbage cans stolen almost weekly, plants stolen, other petty crime, agressive squeegee guys and radios stolen. In a famous rant Garrison Keillor - who briefly broadcast from BAM back then - talked about walking up Flatbush Ave. to BAM and noting all of the "No Radio" signs in the windows of almost every car asked "When I'm recording a radio show, it kind of makes me wonder 'why bother?'." In those days I'd have my battery stolen then I'd walk down to Park Ave. to a place that sold re-habbed batteries and buy back the one they'd stolen the week before.
As soon as the building was demolished and services moved elsewhere, this constant background of petty crime stopped.
Given the current financial turmoil, I'd want homeless New Yorkers to be given the best treatment possible. I think they deserve Manhattan condos.
Posted by: Stonergut at October 16, 2008 10:12 AM
i probably am still a lil drunk from last night (i stole a shopping cart btw!) well it was just sitting outside my building. i dragged it into my bedroom! sorry for the off topic. but um well if im ever homeless ill have my own cart? i dont need no damn shelter!
-r
Posted by: PitbullNYC at October 16, 2008 10:14 AM
If I was homeless I'd "take the summer off" and walk to the west coast or the south or the southwest to live in a warmer climate. Always wonder why these guys stick around these nasty NE winters!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 16, 2008 10:18 AM
This news is infuriating. Everyone has to do their part to support the homeless, but the armory on Bedford is more than Bed-Stuy's fair share. You better believe that in this economy there will be a large increase in the numbers of unemployed and potentially destitute men.
What are Bed Stuy residents to do when the plight of the city is being dumped in our laps?
Can someone please tell me what government agency or council member allowed this?
Posted by: 100yearsonHalsey at October 16, 2008 10:34 AM
Stonergut, I don't know what year you were talking about, but the issues you mentioned were happening all over the city during the 80's. It was never unique to Ft Greene or shelter neighborhoods.
Posted by: rh at October 16, 2008 10:59 AM
"Can someone please tell me what government agency or council member allowed this?"
From what I've read it's a Bloomberg decision.
Posted by: theandrewlee at October 16, 2008 11:02 AM
Department of Homeless Services, but it comes from the top, we're pretty sure.
Posted by: brownstoner at October 16, 2008 11:04 AM
So, how are folks feeling about giving Mayor Mike a third term?
Posted by: SnarkSlope at October 16, 2008 11:11 AM
Well, this is hardly surprising.
English Kills is right, let's work to make homelessness disappear, and then we won't need enormous human warehouses. Yeah, I know easier said than done, and I also know it's going to get worse in the next few years, not better, as cutbacks will force more and more people into the system, and loss of donations and funding will cause even the best relief agencies to falter.
However, that does not mean it should be, or will be, a migration of responsibility to Bed Stuy and Crown Heights. No one wants to see people huddled against the side of buildings, sleeping on heating vents, or camped in the subways. Share the responsibilities, that is all we want. BS and CH are doing our share, what about other neighborhoods?
I remember the horrible conditions at the hotel Stonergut refers to, it was disgraceful. It was also a prime example of mismanagement of funds and a disregard for the homeless. There are dedicated and wonderful people who have spent their careers in helping the homeless. These people know how and where to best spend money, allocate resources and people, and make the best out of a shameful social system. They are not running things. We've got shrinking dollars and growing homelessness. New ideas, new locations, new ways of operating are needed. We need a WPA-like effort to not only shelter and feed people, but get them back on their feet, and back into society. There is a sizable population of homeless people who are just unable to afford to live here, or have lost their homes in fire, through tragedy or landlord foreclosure. These people can be helped for far less than the cost of keeping them in a shelter. There are those who need medical and structured care, and there are those who will never be helped. Just as the homeless are not a monolith, neither should monster shelters in armories in Brooklyn be the monoliths of how we deal with the problem.
We can't just keep dumping them in BS or CH. And the residents of these communities are not just going to sit back and accept whatever the administration deems convenient. There are buildings in every neighborhood in this vast city that could be turned into manageable sized shelters. Smaller shelters in every neighborhood would help spread the care and allow the communities they are in the opportunity to actually care about the people in those shelters, and perhaps go a long way to see the homeless not as them, but us. Pollyanic, perhaps, but what we've got now certainly isn't working.
I know we in Crown Heights will be supporting our near neighbors on Marcus Garvey. Perhaps this will help teach all of us that we are connected. This is not a Bed Stuy or a Crown Heights problem, it is a problem for all of us.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 16, 2008 11:14 AM
DIB
Won't make it.
As for why the homeless are here? Easy, it is the free money.
In every case across the country, increasing homeless services has always resulted in a significant increase in homelessness as freeloaders migrate to the new lands of plenty.
It doesn't really matter too much. These kinds of social programs will soon be coming to an end. We simply can't afford to pay people to do nothing, not when there is so much work to do and the economy is tanking. When new deal programs start up again full force, these guys will be rounded up and put to work. Then, they'll decide they don't like NYC anymore and move to someplace with a climate better suited to freeloading and substance abuse.
Posted by: Polemicist at October 16, 2008 11:17 AM
Yeah, Polemicst, there's nothing like the fun of sleeping on the sidewalk in spit and feces and trash, with rats, 4 legged and otherwise, worrying you. I'm sure the lure of all that "free money" is prompting lazy people everywhere to try the high life of living 24/7 in one set of clothes, eating out of trash bins, and relieving yourself wherever. Welcome to New York City.
Again, you continue to demonstrate what little compassion or regard you have for anyone who is not you. I'm glad you won't be joining the gathering tonight. Putting a face to your unpleasant comments would not be a highlight of my day.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 16, 2008 11:38 AM
MM- ever the optimist. Poley will have compassion the day Sarah Palin tells the truth about anything.
Poley- you are consistently the most infantile, shallow poster on brownstone. there are others who are sometimes worse but you are just so consistent you raise ignorance to a fine art. I have no idea how you were raised but it would be no surprise to find out "grinch" was your family name.
If you have never had the oh-so-wonderful experience of being desperately poor, or homeless, you could be excused for not understanding how terrible it can be. But there is no excuse for the sheer lack of humanity you exhibit.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 16, 2008 12:03 PM
If they do this to Bedford Stuyvesant and Crown Heights they should put on of these shelters also in Murray Hill or UES in the 70s around Madison or Park. This is so wrong!!! We all have to come out tonight... BS and CH are trying to attract hardworking strong families to the area... Just think next year when Bedford Stuyvesant has the house tour like the one this saturday having a strange men roaming the area...
Posted by: Amzi Hill at October 16, 2008 12:34 PM
Speaking of Sarah Palin, I just had a great idea for a Halloween costume: Joe the Plumber! Everyone would be talking about you and vying for your approval.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 16, 2008 12:45 PM
OT but my son wants to be a jukebox for Halloween on the theory that he'll get a quarter instead of candy for singing a song. I suggested he might get more for not singing a song, and now he won't talk to me.
Posted by: cmu at October 16, 2008 3:45 PM
MM - as always, you are right on! Please understand, though, that with many people in foreclosure, the homeless population of those who thought it could 'never happen' to them, will doubtless only increase. I've met homeless with Master's Degrees. There's no monolith here.
Posted by: chnyc at October 16, 2008 4:01 PM
MM - as always, you are right on!
Please understand, though, posters, that with many people in foreclosure, the homeless population of those who thought it could 'never happen' to them, will doubtless only increase. I've met homeless with Master's Degrees. There's no monolith here.
Posted by: chnyc at October 16, 2008 4:01 PM
Montrose:
You give your pet dog free food and cage. If you think that's good for men, well - we have a fundamental disagreement. I look at the homeless of city, and I really can't use the word "compassion" to describe present policy.
Anyway, I don't even know what this gathering is about - but while you find my comments unpleasant, I do at least find yours well written and interesting. I'm sure you're a pleasure to talk to about less controversial topics.
Bxgrl:
I really don't think you've figured this out yet, but your personal attacks really mean nothing to me. Your posts are simply the same drivel day after day. You consistently make the error that anyone who disagrees with you regarding human nature or public policy is evil. You like to throw your demeaning adjectives towards your adversaries, but it is you who lack the adult sensibilities necessary to dispassionately and objectively analyze facts and present public policy solutions that can actually work.
Posted by: Polemicist at October 16, 2008 4:23 PM
The Town Hall tonight is NOT about not wanting the homeless shelter in our neighborhood - it is already here and has 200 men in it. It is about not wanting an additional 1200 (!) homeless men bused into Bed-Stuy each night. See text below and please come tonight.
Community Alert: Town Hall Mtg Tomorrow OCT. 16th 7-9pmSt. Christopher-Ottilie Beacon Center (the big school on the corner- PS 35) 272 MacDonough (between Lewis and Marcus GarveyAdditional info Ms. Blackshear 347-325-4635; Ms. Robinson 718-574-8199; Ms. Cobbs: 347-683-5047
"Mayor Bloomberg has announced intent to close the Bellevue men's shelter in Manhattan to build a luxury hotel. The overflow of men (850) will be moved to the Sumner Avenue Armory along with the (350) men from the Atlantic Avenue Shelter. The Sumner Ave Armory has (200) men already assigned to this facility. The astounding number is overwhelming for the BedStuy community. A large number of these men are dangerous felons released from prison. Some are sexual predators, and some have mental illness. Bus loads of homeless men are being bused into the sumner Armory each night. We need each and everyone to come out and unite with an action plan that will support a better resolution. Let your voice and presence be heard on Thursday, Oct. 16, 2008 7-9pm."
Posted by: amybnyc at October 16, 2008 4:48 PM
polemicist- did you ask me if I care? I don't post for you, I post to the thread. You really need to read what you write because you consistently post the same mindless crap over and over. You weren't describing policy, or improving conditions- you were ranting about people who have much harder lives than you have, and without knowing their circumstances or anything about homeless people or shelters, you simply accused all of them of being freeloaders.
Now if "These kinds of social programs will soon be coming to an end. We simply can't afford to pay people to do nothing, not when there is so much work to do and the economy is tanking. When new deal programs start up again full force, these guys will be rounded up and put to work. Then, they'll decide they don't like NYC anymore and move to someplace with a climate better suited to freeloading and substance abuse." is your idea of a meaningful discussion on social policies, well, you set the bar very low. I think people like you who care nothing for anyone and would gleefully throw those who are not as "fortunate" as you to the wolves are not evil so much as ethical dunces.
Posted by: bxgrl at October 16, 2008 5:55 PM
A major step towards reducing homelessness would be amending the onerous civil commitment laws in this country. In most states, it is virtually impossible to hospitalize a mentally ill person who does not wish it. Meanwhile, many of the mentally ill homeless, the very people who talk to themselves on the street, abuse drugs and alcohol, defectate on stoops (a brownstoner favorite), etc. are left to fend for themselves without treatment. They often wind up in our shelters, streets, and prisons. It is a systemic ill and will only change when people demand such. Otherwise, communities like Crown Heights and Bedford Stuyvesant are left placing a band aid on a societal problem.
Posted by: Big Jugs at October 16, 2008 6:23 PM
What they're talking about here is increasing the number of homeless men in the Sumner Ave shelter to 700% of the current number.
Let me restate that number:
700%
Not only that, but the shelter is currently designated as a "working" shelter, meaning they will only admit men who are employed or seeking employment.
Not so with the new plan.
By the Bureau of Housing and Shelter Services' own numbers, this would be almost 15% of the total homeless population they are serving - all in a single neighborhood. If you don't believe me, look at their numbers here:
"...9,800 single adults are housed in facilities approved and monitored by the New York State Office of Temporary and Disability Assistance"
http://www.otda.state.ny.us/main/bhs/programs.asp
This does not only affect Bed Stuy and Crown Heights, but all of Brooklyn. The facility at Bellvue was surrounded by a healthy economic matrix and an active, powerful political constituency.
The new plan will drop the main intake center into one of the most beaten-down areas of Brooklyn. The economic revival of the past 6-7 years isn't going to continue if this is carried out. All those property owners in Clinton Hill, Ft. Greene, Prospect Heights and Park Slope will feel like they're living next door the South Bronx of the 70s too. It's only a 25 minute walk to any of these neighborhoods.
This neighborhood simply cannot shoulder this large a burden - it has already shouldered too large share of the city's poor. Just look at a map of NYCHA properties and you will see what I mean.
On top of all this, the plan does not serve the very people it purports to, the homeless. Concentrating poverty in an area with an economy that is only starting to grow does not help anyone, least of all the most impoverished.
Posted by: hans at October 16, 2008 11:42 PM
An addendum:
Of course, if the state wants to increase the amount of public funds allocated to the surrounding area by 700% through increases in treatment programs, police, education, community organizations, tax incentives for business, they by all means increase our burden by 700%.
I am very much in favor of this "in my back yard" as long as they are willing to also invest more money "in my back yard".
But, if they're not willing to reciprocate the additional burden they are asking the community to carry, then why SHOULD we want it?
Posted by: hans at October 16, 2008 11:47 PM
CORRECTION:
Sorry - I quoted the state's figures in my math.
The city's numbers are here:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dhs/downloads/pdf/dailyreport.pdf
As of today's census numbers, the shelter will be taking 28% of the single adult homeless men in the city (4,922 as of today), not "almost 15%".
THIS IS ALMOST 1/3 OF THE HOMELESS MEN IN THE CITY GOING TO ONE NEIGHBORHOOD.
Posted by: hans at October 17, 2008 12:13 AM
I was unable to attend last night's meeting. Can someone please tell me what (if any) action items were discussed for combating this?
Posted by: 100yearsonHalsey at October 17, 2008 12:04 PM

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