« Streetlevel: Dueling Cellphone Stores on Prospect Park West Checking In on the Vanguard 6 »

October 20, 2008

Park Slope Wants to Go Both Ways (Traffic-wise)

one-way.1008.jpg After a biker was killed earlier this year on 8th Avenue, a one-way street where folks often zoom by, Park Slopers are hoping to change this and a few other streets to two-ways, reports the Brooklyn Paper. In a 2007 study, Transportation Alternatives found that traffic on 8th Avenue averages 40 miles per hour, which is 10 miles above the speed limit; two-way traffic on 7th Avenue, on the other hand, stays at about 25 mph. Last year, the DOT aimed to change 6th and 7th Avenues to one-ways and the community wasn't having it.
Photo by Zesmerelda.

Trackback Pings

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/6785

Comments

I drive in The Slope daily and bike around very often. Believe me when I say this: it's the bicyclists who are to blame in some of these incidents, not the drivers.
Not sure what exactly happened in the mentioned accident, but some of these guys constantly go against traffic and/or in the middle of the road; not even slowing down for red lights; making dangerous blind turns when lights change, and so on.

Posted by: Gosha at October 20, 2008 2:38 PM

It seems counterintuitive that two-way traffic would be safer, but I guess anything that slows driving speeds is good for pedestrians and cyclists. An older neighbor of mine on 3rd Street said that the street used to run two ways. Hard to imagine now.

Posted by: fawn at October 20, 2008 2:42 PM

I drive on Eighth Avenue fairly frequently and noticed that, to stay in sync with the lights, a driver now has to go about 23-25 mph. I realize that some drivers would prefer to drive faster and stop for a red light every three blocks, but they just fools. I propose giving this change a chance before we start making further changes.

Posted by: altervoce at October 20, 2008 2:45 PM

What a disaster that would be. If you want to slow down traffic, change the light sequence. The cyclist that was killed apparently ran a red light and was hit by a school bus.

Posted by: denton at October 20, 2008 3:22 PM

I agree with Gosha that many bicyclists disregard the rules of the road and common sense and put themselves at serious risk. But the key is that they almost always put only themselves at risk. Someone driving a car at 40 mph on 8th Avenue (and that's the average, many are going 50 or more)is disregarding the rules of the road and putting many people at risk. It's disingenuous to ignore the real issue by starting out blaming cyclists for accidents. Drivers are generally aggressive and arrogant. The real issue is that we don't find it ridiculous that any moron who can answer a few questions and parallel park can get behind the wheel of a 2500 lb steel battering ram and speed down a street just feet away from you, me, our families, our friends, and our pets.

Sorry, a bit angry today.

Posted by: jimdisc at October 20, 2008 3:37 PM

What about putting in some speed bumps to reduce traffic speed? Wish there was more use of these in NY in general - they are pretty effective in residential areas I have lived in Toronto.

Posted by: bpmendoza at October 20, 2008 3:54 PM

bpmendoz:

8th Ave is a bus route. That's the problem with speed bumps.

Eighth Avenue and Prospect Park West have been configured for highway use unfortunately.

The best courses of action are to dramatically raise speeding fines in this city. I'd say anyone going over 35 mph should get a $1,000 fine and anyone going over 50 (twice the citywide speed limit) should be arrested for reckless driving and their cars should be impounded and sold at auction. They do this with drunk drivers, and this is just as dangerous.

Outside of this, doing the two-way street thing is not such a bad idea, but it only works during high traffic times. I occasionally ride down Sixth Avenue, and the lights still allow for dangerously high speeds.

Adjusting the lights might work, but I've seen many people just blow through them anyway.

Posted by: Polemicist at October 20, 2008 4:04 PM

I think traffic rules really need to be enforced for both motorists and cyclists. It doesn't matter if they raise the speeding ticket costs if no one ever issues any tickets to begin with. I live on Van Brunt Street and the posted speed limit is 25 mph. Tell that to the cars headed to Fairway or IKEA, the delivery trucks, tractor trailors, carting companies, and even the city buses, which all go flying by at closer to 40 to 50 mph. I would love to see the police set up a speed trap on one of these roads. If the speed limit were actually enforced that might solve the problem.

Likewise, I cycle and I get frustrated by other cyclists who disregard the rules of the road (including within the bike lanes, where I often run into people cycling against traffic). They should be ticketed as well. Why have laws if we don't enforce them?

Posted by: Combustiblegirl2 at October 20, 2008 4:15 PM

Round up the usual bs.

I hold no brief for the cyclist if indeed he was going the wrong way, but! it's how you do it, now what, that counts. I'm a regular cyclist and I rarely wait for green lights but I do slow/stop, then if there's no cross traffic, I go. And I go against traffic on cross streets. It's actually safer for me. Only an idiot would think this was "unsafe" (as opposed to illegal.)

That said, YES, make 8th and PPW two way, and put bike lanes on PPW. Regardless of what traffic engineers think (and I have engineering and planning degrees) two way streets cause cars to slow down. It's a psychological thing, the perception is that a one-way street can be negotiated at a higher speed.

Posted by: cmu at October 20, 2008 4:39 PM

P, it's interesting how you are all of a sudden a big fan of oppressive government. There are all kinds of problems with impounding cars, and in fact even under the drunk driving program that got a lot of noise very few cars are actually impounded. That's cuz most people don't own their cars, the bank does. Then there's the question of unequal treatment under the law: Is a 1995 Civic the same as a 2008 BMW 750i?

jimdisc, I completely agree about the greater responsibilities of drivers because of their greater potential for damage to others. I see you're a bit out of the loop on what cars actually weigh in these days of airbags, side door impact panels, etc. A Mini Cooper weighs in at 2700 lbs.

Posted by: denton at October 20, 2008 4:46 PM

unless nyc uses a big brother solution, traffic enforcement is not going to solve the problem. Bikes, cars and pedestrians are all going to take shortcuts. plus its politically unpopular. (Anyone remember the complaints here when they ticketed for bikes on the sidewalk in Clinton Hill?)

Urban planning might provide a solution that makes the roads safer. That said, I doubt converting a road to 2-way really solves the problem without creating other ones.

They could reduce the number of lanes for traffic and use the space to build a designated bike lane (w/ median, not just lines painted on the road) like 8th Ave in Manhattan; the trick will be the cost.

Posted by: slick at October 20, 2008 5:04 PM

Bikes may not be motor vehicles, but they need to be treated as such.

If bikes could be impounded due to traffic violations or riding on the sidewalk, bikers would quickly clean up their act and learn how to avoid the pedestrians. All too often I see bikers on the sidewalk, even when there are bike lanes (i.e. DeKalb Ave). This is especially true with commercial 'delivery' bikes (food, courier, etc) who are (understandably) rushing to make as many deliveries as possible.

I grew up in Manhattan in the 1970s, and the only thing I ever got in trouble for was biking on the sidewalk. When I was in my prime 'bike' phase of 12-14 y.o. cops would usually stop me from riding on the sidewalk. I'd complain that riding on Broadway was dangerous. They would still tell me to ride in the street or walk it on the sidewalk. In retrospect, that still makes sense to me.

If bikers are going to get their own lanes, public racks and other niceities, then they need to do more to avoid pedestrians, and also pay the price when they don't follow the rules.

Posted by: Knickerbocker at October 20, 2008 5:56 PM

We need better public transportation in Brooklyn, number one. Number two, we should absolutely have radar signs at least alerting drivers to their current speed...e.g. "Speed Limit 25. Your Speed: 35"

Some random enforcement wouldn't hurt either. I see an awful lot of red light running.

Many people in Brooklyn are addicted to their cars. Sad but true. Again, we need better public transportation and a change in people's attitudes. Policy issues as well as urban planning efforts might change things. Also, we're kind of still in the era of huge SUVs despite the price of gas. Sales of SUVs have dropped but gone are the days of the compact cars of the 70's. Maybe we'll start to see many more compacts in the next years and a huge decrease in SUVs but I doubt it will help us any time soon.

I walk and take the subway and buses living in Brooklyn and feel better for it. Occasionally, of course, I cab it home from Manhattan. In my "former life" on the UES we had a taxi call button in the elevator. It was much too easy to press that button and get in a cab just to go a short way if it seemed too long to walk. I basically didn't know how to get anywhere with the buses or subways. I think it must be the same way for drivers. It seems easier to take the car/SUV instead of looking into public transportation options.

Posted by: BrooklynGreene at October 20, 2008 6:22 PM

Dozens of bikers and pedestrians are killed in the city every year. But pedestrians (with Ipods or cellphones) regularly step off the curb without looking and bikers consistently run red lights and ride without helmets. You'd think they'd learn and act more defensively on the streets. I guess pedestrian/biker fatalities are relatively small and people don't take notice of the facts.

It's also a fact that cars are responsible for nearly 40,000 deaths per year nationally. You'd think drivers would learn and drive more responsibly. I guess 40,000 traffic deaths are relatively small and people don't take notice of the facts.

Come to think of it, voters elected George W. Bush to a second term -- I guess people don't take notice of the facts.

We get the streets and the government we deserve.

Posted by: lifeofreilly at October 20, 2008 9:17 PM

Average speen on 7th ave is more like 5MPH, why with all the lights turning red every 5 seconds. Fine for safety reasons, not so good for CO2 emissions.

Speaking of what cars weigh these days: if rules were enforced a lot of the SUVs couldn't be driven over Brooklyn Bridge (6,000 lbs GVW limit) - even a BWM X5. Here's the full article: http://slate.msn.com/id/2104755/

Posted by: heck_of_a_job_brownie at October 21, 2008 9:23 AM

Denton:

I don't really subscribe to any particular political ideology - that's why I try to focus on specific problems and policies rather than parties. Blind ideology just isn't my thing, so I'm sorry if my writing seems contradictory at times.

As a regular cyclist, it is clear to me that our streets truly are out of control. The social contract and the public acceptance of government authority is dependent on the ability of the State to maintain order. So in that sense, I support strong enforcement of laws that maintain such order and safety. Would I prefer we reduce the bureaurcacy of this city by 50% and hire a 100,000 new police officers at livable wages? Of course, but I realize that is politically untenable.

On a side note, a great way to avoid graft in the public sector is to prohibit government employees or recipients of tax dollars from voting for certain offices. Maybe have a dual legislature - one for which everyone can vote and one for only those who are not beholden to graft.

Certainly, the problem we have in this city is far too many citizens are either on public assistance or employed by the city. This is what has lead to the impractical allocation of resources over the past 40 years.

Posted by: Polemicist at October 21, 2008 10:44 AM

As a resident of 8th Avenue, I am all for reverting it to two-way. It seems to me this might really improve quality of life on the avenue by reducing the ridiculous amount of truck traffic on 8th ave, sending it back to 4th where it belongs. Is there any reason to believe that 8th couldn't feel as peaceful as 6th ave if it were a two-way?

Posted by: chambley at October 21, 2008 10:55 AM

« Streetlevel: Dueling Cellphone Stores on Prospect Park West Checking In on the Vanguard 6 »

October 20, 2008

Park Slope Wants to Go Both Ways (Traffic-wise)

Trackback Pings

Comments

Post a comment

Latest Restaurant Additions