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October 31, 2008
Sheepshead Bay: Fifth Most Luxurious Neighborhood

Our friends at Property Shark have done some sales numbers crunching for the year-to-date, to see where in Brooklyn the million dollar sales were happening. Behold the chart. Brooklyn Heights left the other neighborhoods in the dust, with 88 sales above a million bucks. Park Slope, not surprisingly, was next, followed by Dumbo and its pals Vinegar Hill and downtown Brooklyn. A bit of a surprise is number five, Sheepshead Bay and Gerritsen Beach out-luxurying Carroll Gardens by four sales.
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Comments
I think there were two in Bed Stuy.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 31, 2008 9:45 AM
Go Brooklyn Heights, 11201! No Neighborhood Hypersensitivity Syndrome (NHS) for me today.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 9:48 AM
East Williamsburg is #3? Weird.
Posted by: mothra at October 31, 2008 9:54 AM
Sorry, I meant #4. Still weird.
Posted by: mothra at October 31, 2008 9:54 AM
Sheepshead/Gerritsen presumably includes luxe Manhattan Beach.
Posted by: Jane Jacobs at October 31, 2008 10:07 AM
Yeah, Manhattan Beach would be a big factor.
Posted by: Carol Gardens at October 31, 2008 10:12 AM
Also, I don't see Cobble Hill. (Is it lumped in with Brooklyn Heights or Downtown Brooklyn?) If you grouped Carroll Gardens and Cobble Hill together you might see a different result.
Posted by: Carol Gardens at October 31, 2008 10:14 AM
Gerritsen Beach had nothing to do with those numbers
Posted by: Local Broker at October 31, 2008 10:16 AM
If you grouped East New York with Beverly Hills, you might see a different result.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 10:19 AM
looks like it's broken down by zip code. I agree with Carol Gardens, that classification by zip code is not very representative. Cobble Hill is included in 11231. By itself, Cobble Hill would most likely be second to Brooklyn Heights. Real estate is very very local, beyond zip codes obviously.
Obviously stupid comment from Biff the Champ.
Posted by: brownie77 at October 31, 2008 10:42 AM
Yeah Biff. So there.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 31, 2008 10:48 AM
brownie77, it's called a joke. I'm sure someone will be happy to explain it to you.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 10:50 AM
But to your point, brownie77 says Cobble Hill is included in 11231. 11231 has a total of 15 luxury sales. And brownie 77 says if Cobble Hill was by itself, "it would most likely be second to Brooklyn Heights." So by dividing 15 to separate out Cobble Hill, how exactly would that escalate it above Park Slope (with 38 luxury sales) into the #2 position? You really think Cobble Hill has more luxury sales than Brooklyn Heights and Park Slope on their own?
Obviously stupid comment from brownie77 the Chump.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 10:56 AM
No kidding ! But you see Ros Biff, the problem with blogs these days is that it gets populated with jokers like you and therefore lost some of their appeal. If you like to crack up jokes, i'll send you a few links where you can really express yourself ;)
Posted by: brownie77 at October 31, 2008 11:01 AM
Biff you must put an end to this. We will not allow you to "crack up jokes" anymore.
Blogs also get populated with a lot of people who can't seem to understand and interpret the data as well.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 31, 2008 11:05 AM
brownie77, Roast Biff would have been much funnier than Ros Biff, but since this is apparently a very serious blog, please no jokes. I understand there are separate websites you can use to express your inner Henny Youngman.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 11:06 AM
Once again Big Champ you dont get it. If your measure is the number of luxury sales, then go back to school and take a few extra classes in math. Median price is a better indicator. Obviously, you would know (if you would actually know what you're talking about) that the top end sales of brownstones of Cobble Hill come second to the ones of Brooklyn Heights. But, anyway, I am done with you. Waste of my precious time.
Posted by: brownie77 at October 31, 2008 11:06 AM
Dave, I can't even crack up people, how am I supposed to crack up jokes?
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 11:06 AM
If it's done by zip code, these results don't make sense. Just as one example, both DUMBO and Downtown Brooklyn are in 11201 (same as Brooklyn Heights), not 11217 as indicated. Cobble Hill is split between 11201 and 11231 as discussed above, and would rank prominently if this was actually done by neighborhood and not zip code. Ranking by neighborhood is suspect to begin with, but doing by zip code is even worse.
Posted by: NorthHeights at October 31, 2008 11:06 AM
Thank you NorthHeights. I am happy to see that some people got it. The point was indeed that this ranking by zip and number of luxury sales is just useless.
Posted by: brownie77 at October 31, 2008 11:09 AM
Oh, I get it brownie77: if one doesn't like the results of one study, one should massage the results and try to use a different measurement in order to get the results one wants. But then again, this was a study done by Property Shark and clearly you know much more than them about real estate. You should right them a letter. Or better yet, take two pills for that nasty case of NHS you're experiencing and don't call us in the morning. At least you're admitting Brooklyn Heights still comes out no top by any measure, so there's still some hope for you. But you've probably upset some Park Slopers by claiming Cobble Hill outranks them for luxury sales.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 11:14 AM
Yeah, the zip code thing is not making sense.
Also, 518 sales in Brooklyn Heights and 470 in Park Slope? That doesn't really make sense to me either. PS is roughly 3x the size of BH in terms of both population and housing units. Clearly One Brooklyn Bridge Park is a factor, but there seem to me just as many new condo developments in PS if not more.
Posted by: Ringo at October 31, 2008 11:16 AM
Make that "write them a letter". Apparently I need to go back to school not only for math, but also for English.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 11:17 AM
Reason Bklyn Hts 11201 has so many sales is that much of very active condo market in DUMBO is included -even tho chart says DUMBO is 11217 (which part of it probably is).
But more telling is median price - where 11231 comes in 2nd and above 11201.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 31, 2008 11:18 AM
I assume the Carroll Gardens # is brought down a little by Columbia and Red Hook, some of which is pricey and some of which is not. One would expect Cobble Hill to counteract the drag that Red Hook has on the Carroll Gardens #s, so if I had to guess, I'd guess that Cobble Hill is included in Brooklyn Heights, where the zip code splits from 11201 to 11231, which according to this map, is at Kane. http://www.usnaviguide.com/zip.htm.
Posted by: mattt at October 31, 2008 11:24 AM
and to why 11235 (Sheepshead, et al) has larger # of lux sales (defined as single fam house, coop, condo) is that not all that many large lux condos in 11231 and the houses that sell (which almost all are above $1m) are usually classified as 2 or more family.
But the lux houses (above $1m) in the 11235 waterfront area are single family.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 31, 2008 11:25 AM
SB does so well due to THL's lovely links to their fine stock of mansions. Maybe Corcoran should hire THL to replace a recent opening at their firm?
Posted by: 11233 at October 31, 2008 11:25 AM
'Brooklyn Heights still comes out no top by any measure'
Biff...re-write, please.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 31, 2008 11:25 AM
I think the "writing a letter" is a good suggestion indeed. Collecting datas and posting them on a website is very different than analyzing these datas. PropShark is very useful when it comes to collect datas but all they did here was to present datas according to a ranking which I thought didn't make any sense in terms of what you get from it. Hopefully that closes the argument. No harm, Biff Champion. Nice arguing with you ;)
Posted by: brownie77 at October 31, 2008 11:25 AM
they didnt include brighton beach with sheepshead bay and manhattan beach thats all 1 zip code gerritsen beach isnt 11235
Posted by: Local Broker at October 31, 2008 11:29 AM
BRG, I already said I'm going back to school to polish up my English!
brownie77, dammit, it's hard to argue with you when you seem so genuinely nice. Your points are understood and well taken and no harm done at all. Have a great weekend. :-)
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 11:32 AM
Shout out to South Brooklyn, representting!!!
Bay Ridge zip code at 11209 is only 8 numbers away from Brooklyn Heights.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 31, 2008 11:33 AM
BRG..."close" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 31, 2008 11:34 AM
Completely with you, Mattt and NorthHeights. Zips cross over neighborhoods and vice-versa. A ranking by neighborhood would have made much more sense.
Besides, I would add that the $1mil threshold seems rather low if the point is to try to define "luxury". $1 mil these days in real estate doesn't get you much and if their point was really to address "luxury" sales, I would probably have set a higher threshold than $1mil.
Posted by: brownie77 at October 31, 2008 11:34 AM
I tried to move all my homeowner's insurance policies to Hartford the other day and was told that they don't insure anything in New York City for more than $475,000!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 31, 2008 11:41 AM
"Shout out to South Brooklyn, representting!!!"
bayridgegirl...re-write, please.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 11:50 AM
re-write on spelling or grammer?
Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 31, 2008 12:24 PM
The North Slope is also 11217. Interesting that 11217 has the highest median price for all zip codes. I'm surprised.
Posted by: 11217 at October 31, 2008 12:29 PM
Not quite sure how useful this data is the way it is grouped.
Posted by: A Guest at October 31, 2008 12:34 PM
BRG, spelling in "representting" and now also in "grammer". See what you started?
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 12:35 PM
Biff, T & A....that's all you can think about!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 31, 2008 12:38 PM
It's like a snowball Biff. Don't encourage it. BRG...pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 31, 2008 12:38 PM
what the devil does "crack up jokes" mean?
Posted by: dittoburg at October 31, 2008 12:40 PM
ditto...my best guess is that they are jokes you make when your plumber is fixing something and you're standing behind him watching.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 31, 2008 12:46 PM
BRG, now THAT was funny!
DIBS, I thought it referred to one of those old "Confucius say" jokes, i.e., woman who flies upside down in airplane always crack up. Sorry, I fully understand if someone boots me off the Brownstoner stage...
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 12:55 PM
and Biff....yours was not.
[Biff, exit, stage left]
Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 31, 2008 12:58 PM
You best have a look at What the What wrote you in his Forum post!!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 31, 2008 12:59 PM
I don't know any Confucius jokes, I know what the Zen Buddhist said to the hot dog vendor though.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 31, 2008 1:00 PM
DIBS, come on. You had your (admittedly less offensive) Tulips on an organ line. I'm begging for forgiveness.
Ok ditto, please save me. What did the Zen Buddhist said to the hot dog vendor?
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 1:06 PM
Make me one with everything.
Posted by: dittoburg at October 31, 2008 1:14 PM
Thank you, ditto. Will you be appearing here all week? Should we try the prime rib and tip our servers well?
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 1:22 PM
Better keep your day job Ditto :)
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 31, 2008 1:24 PM
Better keep your day job Ditto, Dave, and Biff :)
Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 31, 2008 1:31 PM
I'm just the warm up guy for the bayridge burlesque
Posted by: dittoburg at October 31, 2008 1:33 PM
ditto, I'm polishing my glass pumps as I type.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 31, 2008 1:39 PM
Ya gotta have a gimmick....I want to see BRG up on stage in pasties twirling each one in a different direction!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 31, 2008 1:42 PM
DIBS, I would think you'd want to see [hot cop] on a stage, twirling his pasties!
Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 31, 2008 1:48 PM
11211 is regular old williamsburg, not "east williamsburg." have to believe that most of the 1 million + sales are west of the BQE.
Posted by: wine lover at October 31, 2008 1:49 PM
oh god,
BROWNSTONER PLEASE BRING BACK THE DAYS OF GUEST POSTINGS!
Posted by: Ringo at October 31, 2008 1:50 PM
wine lover, please don't get off topic. We're talking about burlesque, pasties and hot cops on stage.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 1:54 PM
Or his nightstick.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 31, 2008 1:54 PM
'BROWNSTONER PLEASE BRING BACK THE DAYS OF GUEST POSTINGS!'
Like the guest posters would really stay on topic.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 31, 2008 2:00 PM
Isn't a nightstick hard to twirl???
Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 31, 2008 2:04 PM
Ringo, since you're here, can we ask that you please give us a rimshot at the appropriate time?
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 2:39 PM
Biff....you gone and done it now. You're going to get us all kicked out of here.
I want to give you the benefit of the doubt.
A rimshot is the sound produced by hitting the rim and the head of a drum at once, with a drum stick. Rimshots are usually played to produce a more accented note, and are typically played loudly. However, soft rim shots are possible.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 31, 2008 3:08 PM
Oh yeah, I would accept one of those rimshots too.
Posted by: Biff Champion at October 31, 2008 3:15 PM
Darn. Late to the party again.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at October 31, 2008 4:22 PM
This is more poitive news for NYC real estate:
More U.S. Homeowners Have Mortgage Higher Than House Is Worth
By Dan Levy
Oct. 31 (Bloomberg) -- Almost 20 percent of U.S. mortgage borrowers owed more on their loans in the third quarter than their house was worth as foreclosures depressed prices and the economy weakened, according to First American CoreLogic.
More than 7.5 million properties already have negative equity and another 2.1 million will follow should home prices decline another 5 percent, Santa Ana, California-based First American, a seller of economic and real estate data, said in a report today. Six states account for almost 60 percent of homes with negative equity, led by Nevada and Michigan.
``As long as job losses continue and people face resets on their mortgages, the housing market will be under severe distress,'' Sam Khater, a senior economist at First American in Tysons Corner, Virginia, said in an interview. ``We've created an entire class of homeowner that is very sensitive to price changes.''
Home prices fell in August in all 20 metropolitan areas measured by the S&P/Case-Shiller home-price index, which dropped 16.6 percent from a year earlier and has fallen every month since January 2007. U.S. foreclosure filings rose to a record in the third quarter, and will probably increase as the economy worsens and the availability of financing shrinks, RealtyTrac Inc., a seller of default data, reported on Oct. 22.
The number of houses with loans higher than the property's value may increase to almost 25 percent should prices keep falling, First American said.
Economy Weakens
The economy suffered its biggest decline since 2001 in the third quarter, ushering in what may be the worst recession in a quarter-century. Polls show that economic turmoil is boosting the chances of presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and fellow Democrats in next week's elections.
Gross domestic product contracted at a 0.3 percent pace from July to September, according to a Commerce Department report yesterday in Washington. The decline was smaller than forecast. Even so, the economy may be in for a larger drop this quarter as the record two-decade expansion in consumer spending came to an end.
The weak economy has hurt Republican candidate Senator John McCain of Arizona, who fell further behind Obama as the financial crisis intensified. A Bloomberg/Los Angeles Times survey taken Aug. 15-18 showed McCain leading with 42 percent to Obama's 41 percent; five weeks later, the poll showed Obama ahead by 49 percent to 45 percent.
First American's home-price index, compiled from public property records that go back 30 years, showed a national drop of 11.2 percent in August from a year earlier. The rate of decline may increase to 12 percent by year end, Khater said.
Rescue Plan
A $500 billion plan under consideration by the U.S. Treasury and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. may help as many as 3 million homeowners in danger of default refinance their mortgages into affordable loans, people familiar with the matter said yesterday.
FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair acknowledged this week that ``a framework'' for modifications was being discussed.
The states with the highest shares of homes with negative equity either had rapid appreciation in prices, manufacturing declines or a higher proportions of subprime loans, according to First American.
Nevada had the highest share at 48 percent, followed by Michigan at 39 percent, Florida and Arizona each at 29 percent, California at 27 percent, Georgia at 23 percent and Ohio at 22 percent, First American said.
New York had the lowest share of homes with negative equity at 7 percent, followed by Hawaii at 8 percent, Pennsylvania at 9 percent and Montana at 10 percent, according to the report.
The negative equity report was compiled from 41.7 million first and second mortgages and covers single-family homes, cooperatives, condominiums, town homes and multiunit attached properties up to four units, Khater said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601206&sid=aYyk2_TLjGao&refer=realestate
Posted by: sebb at October 31, 2008 5:18 PM
sorry biff
Posted by: wine lover at October 31, 2008 8:24 PM
Why is Gerritsen Beach such a suprise? Waterfront Homes are expensive often going for over one Million....not to mention Gerritsen Beach probably has one of the lowest crime rates in the city.
Posted by: hydrin at November 14, 2008 10:29 PM

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