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October 15, 2008

House of the Day: 18 St. Marks Place

18-St-Marks-Place-1008.jpg
If you're not someone who puts much weight on a house's historic details, this house at 18 St. Marks Place in Boerum Hill (?) might present an interesting opportunity to get a piece of the rock. The three-family brownstone is listed for just $1,259,000 and has two income-generating units in addition to the owner's duplex. Do you think this looks like a reasonable buy?
18 St. Marks Place [Betancourt] GMAP P*Shark




Posted by Brownstoner at 1:16 PM | Comments (63)
Categories: Boerum Hill, HOTD

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Comments

Yes, reasonable assuming they are market-rate rentals.

But this is a dicey area. People will argue, I'm sure, but these projects are not great (and yes, I've lived near projects that were perfectly safe/fine -- not all projects are alike).

Posted by: Ringo at October 15, 2008 1:26 PM

Not the greatest block.

Posted by: guestula at October 15, 2008 1:27 PM

I came across this one this week as well. It seems like a decent investment. However, I didn't understand the description of "seven rooms" for rental. That confused me. The lack of pictures also makes me think some parts of the house are dingy and need work.

Posted by: Delilah at October 15, 2008 1:27 PM

Crappy listing.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 15, 2008 1:28 PM

Gowanus houses across the street at 3rd Avenue. I used to have a friend who lived on this block. MAJOR DRUG TRAFFIC. Buyer beware for sure!!

Posted by: MarionG at October 15, 2008 1:31 PM

horrible area. i used to live on pacific and recall hearing gunfire, to read the next day of a guy pulling a gun on police, have been harrassed by packs of kids from the projects while walking, have seen kids walking down the street kicking trashcans over and breaking bottles, throwing bottles at cars, and get to hear radios blasting at odd hours. all within my short year of living near there. serious buyer-beware flag here.

Posted by: goldie at October 15, 2008 1:35 PM

I guess we're done with this one then!!!!

THL you got anything for us today???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 15, 2008 1:39 PM

MarionG, you are referring to Wyckoff Gardens, not Gowanus Houses. Goldie, I'm sorry you were harassed, but how do you know the kids lived in the projects?

Posted by: faithful at October 15, 2008 1:41 PM

That's right. This area is a little sketch. That explains it. I've come to learn, "there is always something.."

Posted by: Delilah at October 15, 2008 1:42 PM

For half that price, there's this lovely villa in Bali:

- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/15/greathomesanddestinations/15gh-sale.html

Posted by: SnarkSlope at October 15, 2008 1:52 PM

This neighborhood is a bit of a no man's land between Boerum Hill and the slope. I guess that is why the property is priced the way it is.

Posted by: wasder at October 15, 2008 1:52 PM

Area is certainly not wonderful, but not THAT bad! People on this blog always speak of "safe an beautiful" blocks in crown heights, bed stuy, and PLG, but somehow between 3rd/4th ave near Atlantic is a BUYER BEWARE zone? Considering its proximity to atlantic subway, smith st, and 5th ave, i think its priced fairly reasonably.

Posted by: bktycoon at October 15, 2008 1:53 PM

Apologize for the off-topic post, but can anyone who's interested in our gathering tomorrow night please rsvp via my Forum post today? Thanks

http://www.brownstoner.com/forum/archives/2008/10/end_of_the_worl_1.php#comments

Posted by: Biff Champion at October 15, 2008 1:53 PM

Will this one do Dave?

http://www.housenkey.com/address.php?property_ID=171

Movie theater in the basement!!

Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 15, 2008 2:07 PM

Standup Jacuzzi?

Posted by: SnarkSlope at October 15, 2008 2:11 PM

THL--you have outdone yourself. That basement is amazing. What is a standup jacuzzi?

Posted by: wasder at October 15, 2008 2:11 PM

That basement has the makings of a nice bordello.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 15, 2008 2:13 PM

Snark slope--can't believe you beat me to the punch.

Posted by: wasder at October 15, 2008 2:14 PM

I was wondering about the jacuzzi myself.

My favorites are the etched glass cherub above the fireplace and the Listerine strategically placed to match the blue tile bathroom.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 15, 2008 2:19 PM

I walk down this block often. More than a few times a week.

I feel much safer walking by on this street than I do walking in many areas of Clinton Hill, Crown Heights and even eastern Prospect Heights.

There are always people walking around, and the projects here have been massively been cleaned up. I ALWAYS see a security guard or police officer patrolling down here.

Transportation access is incredible from here.

No clue about the price.

Posted by: 11217 at October 15, 2008 2:21 PM

I hope you all saw the BVM tucked away in the front garden.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 15, 2008 2:21 PM

You gotta love all the signed football memorabilia AND...

What home in this neighborhood would be complete without the Frank Sinatra "Come Fly With Me" Album with signed photo as wall art!! Even I love me some Frank!

Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 15, 2008 2:22 PM

There is a frothy mug of beer on the counter of the basement bar!!

Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 15, 2008 2:24 PM

Serious Question-
Does Anyone know why the background of the Virgin Mary is always blue? Is there any significance to the blue? I always wondered.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 15, 2008 2:28 PM

i was at a party at friends' apt right on this block and after i left, the party was invaded by a group that held up everyone at gun point and stole everything. anything near projects is dangerous.

Posted by: wine lover at October 15, 2008 2:30 PM

yes, this is not the best block in the area to be certain. also, i think all of these houses have small setbacks, short stoops and the sidewalk is fairly narrow, so you have less of a feeling of privacy than in the more typical brownstone arrangement. the description of the rentals and description as an "investment opportunity" also give me pause. still, from the photos, the facade and entry look to be in decent shape, it doesn't need a gut, and the location has pretty good access to transit and park slope. if we hadn't already bought, we'd probably have at least taken a look at this place. i think it's not priced too badly, but will probably still need a discount if they're trying to move it quickly.

Posted by: i disagree at October 15, 2008 2:35 PM

THL - Blue is a celestial color, the color of heaven. And it matches her handbag.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at October 15, 2008 2:36 PM

THL - I'm embarressed to say, That listing is in my neighborhood.

I'm very sad, very very sad, that you had to expose Bay Ridge like this. My head is lowered and I'm shuffling my feet as I walk to the corner to hide.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 15, 2008 2:39 PM

And her shoes!! Which, as we all know, should always match one's handbag.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 15, 2008 2:41 PM

Thanks Snark.

BRG- Hey, remember, I live in Jersey City, still feel so sad? Wear it proud sister!

Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 15, 2008 2:43 PM

Biff....Where do I get a glass handbag from?

Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 15, 2008 2:44 PM

And that would be for what BRG? To match your "clear heels?" We know what Chris Rock has to say about those!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 15, 2008 2:45 PM

Ask Shauna Sands. She won't leave the house without them.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 15, 2008 2:49 PM

THL, at one point, some mediaeval date, that blue was by far the most expensive pigment for painters, and so it became standard to use it for Mary's cloak to honor her I suppose.

Thats what the elevator in our building said anyway.

Posted by: dittoburg at October 15, 2008 2:51 PM

But off course, DIBS.
That was a reference to a prior post.

Off Off topic
If anybody has Chris Rock's latest HBO special, can you burn me a copy. I haven't seen it. I saw him around town working on it, but haven't seen the special.

I'll reimburse cost.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 15, 2008 2:53 PM

Makes sense thanks Dittoburg

Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 15, 2008 2:53 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUFWc8bUbvA

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 15, 2008 2:53 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4aWbGE3emM

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 15, 2008 2:55 PM

It's just not a nice location, proximity to the subway or not.

There are definite issues with the safety and pleasantness of the streets. I wouldn't worry if I were passing through randomly or visiting someone who (unfortunately for them) lived there, but I wouldn't want to live there.

I think the days of people happily spending $1,000,000+ to live on sketchy blocks are over.

Posted by: northsloperenter at October 15, 2008 2:58 PM

Ok, I'm trying to get some work done so I can make tomorrow night's soiree at a respectable hour and there goes THL tempting me like this with another beaut!

BRG, you can probably get a glass purse somewhere along Canal. They seem to have everything. But you sure you want every stranger passing by you knowing what you stash inside your handbag?

Posted by: Biff Champion at October 15, 2008 3:02 PM

Thanks for the links DIBS....Chris Rock ain't got nothing on Brianna.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at October 15, 2008 3:32 PM

I think the block is fine, it is just buildings aren't as grand. Short stoop, narrow, and if I recall long (does it mention outdoor space). The price seems very reasonable, I disagree with "i disagree" about the need for a price cut.

Posted by: boroughbred at October 15, 2008 3:39 PM

faithful, regarding the kids, they were about 8 black kids walking north about a block from the projects. odds would be they were more likely from there than elsewhere. just writing this brought flashbacks of other incidences of kids throwing bottles in front of passing cars (mine being one). sure there are worse neighborhoods, but dealing with this stuff a few times in just one year was enough.

in this market, a buyer with $1.2MM should not be dealing with this since that area wont change.

Posted by: goldie at October 15, 2008 3:41 PM

So much wrong with that comment, Goldie...I wouldn't even know where to begin...

Posted by: 11217 at October 15, 2008 3:45 PM

It all sounded pretty factual to me 11217.

Maybe the last comment about spending $1.2 MM was editorial.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 15, 2008 4:00 PM

11217, its objective observation, the 'wrongness' is simply your own personal reaction. faithful asked why i thought the kids were from the projects. in that neighborhood, a block away from the projects, dressed in baggies and smashing things, its a reasonable deduction to make.

curious as to your sensitivities.

Posted by: goldie at October 15, 2008 4:15 PM

As an aside, I have found betancourt to tend to overprice listings in most cases. In this case, I am not sure because I have never been on this block. If it was on ok block and the house is in decent shape, then i'd say its fair, but my guess is betancourt aimed high. has anyone had similar experiences?

Posted by: Delilah at October 15, 2008 4:23 PM

This block was closed down to traffic a few years ago with cop cars at either end. I recall there being a few shootings in short period of time. I don't even think it's project issues, but maybe some of the residents of that block. I grew up in the PJ's albeit a pretty safe one, so it just depends which projects you live by. We still live in Brooklyn, so keep your wits about you. Some streets you don't go down.

Posted by: DannyBKNY at October 15, 2008 5:08 PM

Oh no, that building isn't close to the projects at all, in fact the majority of the residents of the projects are upstanding citizens they just need a hug.

Posted by: Xander Crews at October 15, 2008 5:13 PM

End of an era. Get wise --places like this will be selling for 250/k, and I'm not kidding, in three years.

Posted by: Whuh at October 15, 2008 5:32 PM

If it acts like the What and it sounds like the What then...

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 15, 2008 5:37 PM

I know that block quite well, the brownstones are 20 X 60 (very deep) with 40 foot yards. Four floors (including english basement).

The violence and other issues have fallen tremendously over th eyears, and the block itself has a lot of young proffesionals on it.

There are two brownstones in the middle of the block that must have rent control/stabilized tenants, and they had people hanging out in front of them, but one was boarded up, so thats almost gone away, next to third is another of these buildings. rents are between 1800 and 2400 for a floor (ive known people in several differnt buildings on the block).

There continues to be people hanging out near third avenue, and drug traffic has diminshed significantly but is still present. The price is definitly right, i wonder if itll come down more.

THAT building has a completely concrete backyard, which is a shame because the lots adjacent have gardens.

Posted by: lionballs at October 15, 2008 5:53 PM

I know people w/ small kids on that block who are quite happy there. When they were considering it I said: the block may change but the PJs aren't going anywhere. Seems to have worked out OK for them.

Re: concrete backyard -- I'm sure you could get cheap illegal immigrant labor to haul out the jackhammered rubble and then turn it back in to a garden.

Posted by: Bklnite at October 15, 2008 6:01 PM

You people make it sound like being close to drug activity is a bad thing, where else but on 4th ave can you get 4 radial tires, a car stereo and a bag of heroin.
All from the same Puerto Rican.

Posted by: Xander Crews at October 15, 2008 6:04 PM

Bklnight....the folks I know on that block also have two very small kids. They've lived on that block since 2003 and love it there. They moved from the Upper West Side and say they've never looked back. To each his/her own.

Posted by: 11217 at October 15, 2008 7:01 PM

If it acts like a jackass, and talks like a jackass...hey, Dave. What part of cataclysm do you not understand? Get it through your head: We are in inning one of the biggest deflationary blow-off in history. Keep it up, but as long as you do, so will I. I find it utterly hilarious you dead enders planned a party to celebrate how wrong The What was, and now you have to go through with it, even though he called the tsunami, and down the line. So ungracious are you in defeat, you won't even give the man his due. Ungentlemanly, to say the least. This is an Ibsen play, to make a reference that will fly right by you.

Posted by: Whuh at October 15, 2008 7:12 PM

Nikkei down ten per cent at the open. If we really, fully and finally crash tomorrow, I'm going to the party.

Posted by: Whuh at October 15, 2008 9:02 PM

The shit does seem to be hitting the fan guys, how much longer will squeeky-clean preppy types put down heavy cash on houses in very, very un-preppy environments? How long will their wives and children let them? Listen, I love the fact that South Africa-style apartheid is breaking down in Brooklyn, I love that white families are moving to Bed Stuy and Black families are moving to Brooklyn Heights, but the houses in the more dangerous and less genteel areas should not be commesurate in price with houses in Darien, Connecticut or Rye, New York. That is nuts.
It is wackadoodle-insane. Much of brownstone Brooklin has more in common with Newark, NJ or Detroit MI. than Rye NY, Why are people paying Rye prices for Newark blocks? My feeling is that it is because they are nuts.

Posted by: Inigo at October 15, 2008 9:44 PM

"ungentlemanly" - are you saying that with a straight face? The twat didn't make a single screed without some hateful comment or a dismissive reference to asshats or you can suck my etc. His bile was almost tangible even over this medium. And most responses to him merely made fun of him without being rude or just dismissed him as a crank.

One earns respect, one isn't given it automatically, and one can lose it instantly.

In his spitting anger he completely ignored that many posters here renting or waiting to get into the market are quite happy to see house prices tank.

Posted by: dittoburg at October 16, 2008 8:24 AM

Re. true to form, see his nasty response to someone asking about a hearth cover on the forum today.

Posted by: dittoburg at October 16, 2008 9:38 AM

Wow! didn't realize how many racists folks were on this forum. If you are looking to live only with white people maybe you should try North Dakota.
New York is diversified, it has been for hundreds of years. To make comments about kids that dress a certain way and are of a particular "race", and lump them into a category IS subjective and entirely racist. The people living in the projects are not all dangerous, they all are living at a poverty level that I'm assuming none of you have experienced (I actually have)and have little choice as to where they live.
I was born and raised in New York in the 70's and have watched this city make huge changes for the better, but the only disturbing change I've watched is non-new yorkers making claims to neighborhoods and passing judgement on those who have lived there their whole lives and trying to decide if they are willing to live among "these people"and pricing the native neighbors out of their own neighborhoods.

Posted by: plasticlove at October 16, 2008 12:31 PM

I know this block well; my family and I have lived here 16 years. Although I have always liked it here, I can agree with some of the comments that the block has had its problems over the years. For the most part these problems have stemmed from one house, which was city-owned, and was recently taken over by the 5th Avenue committee. That particular house has been blessedly vacant for six months or so, and the block association has been assured that the dealers that lived there are not coming back.

When that particular house became vacant, it was as if the block had changed overnight from the ghetto to Sesame Street, with kids of all races drawing with chalk on the sidewalk together. It's funny how one building can cause so much trouble. If you haven't been here for a while, your impressions are outdated.

It's a close knit block, too. Everybody knows everybody, which I think is rather unusual for a neighborhood in Brownstone Brooklyn with a lot of rentals. Recently, one of the residents became ill, and half the block visited him while he was in the hospital.

The other day, one of my neighbors swept my stoop when he saw that sanitation was ticketing. Saved me a ticket.

We have an older latina woman who sits on her stoop all day, and hugs everyone on the way to work or school.

You get the picture. It's hard to judge from a casual drive by.

Posted by: carfreenation at October 20, 2008 9:57 PM

Please look around first. 47 St Marks Pl was sold on June 2008 for only 950K. It is a bigger and nicer house, it is also closer to 4th Ave rather than the projects.
I didn't know that the real estate market appreciated in the last few months during the credit crunch and the stock market meltdown.
After years in the real estate business, I find betancourt more than exagerating. I think this is a 950K property.

Posted by: brooklynresident at October 26, 2008 6:35 PM

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