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October 1, 2008

Does Your Front Door Belong to Everyone in the Co-op?

willoughby-walk-0908.jpgIn July, a Clinton Hill co-op board decided to enforce a house rule: no decorations on any doors, without getting board approval first. That meant that Vincent Romano had to remove the magnetic American flag he'd placed there to commemorate a relative killed in the 9/11 attacks, reports Habitat magazine. Despite the bad press that Willoughby Walk Co-ops endured after word got out, the board persisted, not realizing that the "Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005" protects one's right to display the American flag on one's own property. Except it turns out the door to your unit belongs to the co-op as a whole. "In a co-op you don't own; you have possessory-use right for inside the apartment," says an attorney. Which means co-ops are immune from the federal law, and maybe you should ask your co-op board next time you want to alter your door, no matter how patriotic the change.
Authoritarian Boards, Public Rancor, Wise Compromise [Habitat]
Photo by PropertyShark.




Posted by lisa at 9:31 AM | Comments (30)
Categories: Co-ops

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Comments

I guess it's a slippery slope, but doesn't the board know it's sacrilege to question anything to do with 9/11?

Posted by: This Aint No Disco at October 1, 2008 10:09 AM

If you live in a co-op or condo, or indeed a rental (house, apartment, SRO) you have to accept that your space is not your own. If you want to decorate your door or some other part of the exterior of your property, you really need to buy a single family house somewhere that doesn't have a homeowner's association.

Whilst we all might empathize with a homeowner wanting to display the American flag, I think the board was right to take a strong position. If you allow the US flag, you might end up with all sorts of stuff on the front doors that are protected by free speech.

Posted by: bohuma at October 1, 2008 10:19 AM

Oh come on, that's absurd. Have some common sense guidelines, like nothing of a sexual or offensive nature on the doors, like photos of naked people, or a Nazi flag, but a flag magnet? Next, people won't be able to hang Christmas wreaths, or anyone else's holiday symbols. Halloween and Thanksgiving will offend someone, I'm sure.

Sometimes in our rush to not offend, we offend even more by dumbing everything down to mediocrity and blandness. Something on a door is seen for 2 minutes when you walk down the hall. Surely, anyone can take it for that long. Sheesh, there are so many more important issues a co-op board needs to be worrying about.

I think the old "If you don't like it, move to Russia, buy your own house, etc " argument is lame in 99% of situations, and solves nothing. Just because you don't own something doesn't mean you don't have the right to enjoy your participation in the experience of paying to live there.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 1, 2008 10:54 AM

This board needs to take a major chill pill.

Posted by: lowintheheights at October 1, 2008 11:16 AM

the policy isn't just about avoiding offense -- as the co-op's lawyer said, it's about keeping the hallways from looking like a college dorm room. it's reasonable for a co-op to decide that its atmosphere and property values are enhanced by limiting residents' discretion to decorate the hallways.

the problem here is more about selective and arbitrary enforcement of the rule. they allow christmas wreaths, for example -- so why not flags? they need a better explanation of where the line is being drawn and why the flag falls on the off-limits side of the line. it wouldn't be hard to craft such a policy.

Posted by: z at October 1, 2008 11:23 AM

Rules, the backbone of society ! Lack of common sense, the death of civilation.

Posted by: BklynPEZ at October 1, 2008 12:24 PM

I suppose this one, on its skin, seems silly and overly controlling...

...until one begins to imagine the cooperative version of trailer park garden gnomes, pink flamingos, confederate flags, strung-up twinkly Christmas lights, country wreaths with plaid "welcome!" letters, and "Jessica Palin rocks!" bumper stickers.

Isn't it ever so much easier, more tasteful, and ultimately pleasing to the most people to simply say: Nope, nothing on the front. Have at the inside, but give your neighbors, their visitors, and potential buyer's eyes a rest. Please.

A board can't easily make itself the arbiter of good taste.

Posted by: Nokilissa at October 1, 2008 12:26 PM

"and "Jessica Palin rocks!"

WTF is Jessica Palin?

Posted by: GHB at October 1, 2008 12:32 PM

i think she is sarah's smarter, uglier sister.

Posted by: z at October 1, 2008 12:35 PM

I'm going to assume GHB is being ironic... either that or has just sneaked out from under the largest rock in the City to peruse Brownstoner.

You are kidding.

AREN'T YOU?

Posted by: Nokilissa at October 1, 2008 12:36 PM

Holy shit! How did I just say Jessica Palin? More importantly, WHY did I just write Jessica Palin? Is Sarah reminding me of a Jessica?

Head in hands, shaking sadly, shame suffusing self...

Posted by: Nokilissa at October 1, 2008 12:38 PM

Nokilissa, we forgive you because we love you. Did you see any of the Katie Couric interview. OH MY WORD! It is truly scary. I would laugh at it if it wasn't so terrifying. She's making Bush look like a Rhodes Scholar. Here is just a sample of the ridiculousness...

"Couric: And when it comes to establishing your worldview, I was curious, what newspapers and magazines did you regularly read before you were tapped for this to stay informed and to understand the world?

Palin: I've read most of them, again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media.

Couric: What, specifically?

Palin: Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me all these years.

Couric: Can you name a few?

Palin: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news, too. Alaska isn't a foreign country, where it's kind of suggested, "Wow, how could you keep in touch with what the rest of Washington, D.C., may be thinking when you live up there in Alaska?" Believe me, Alaska is like a microcosm of America."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/30/eveningnews/main4490618.shtml?source=mostpop_story

Posted by: Biff Champion at October 1, 2008 12:48 PM

I saw. I laughed. I wept.

Today she is comparing herself to "Joe Sixpack" who needs to be represented in the position of vice-presidency. I think those were her exact words. I wept again.

And whatever happened to Ms. Palin's Macaca Moment on the radio several months back? When she could be heard giggling and laughing like a school girl while the shock jocks called Lyda Green (her political nemesis for having remained neutral during the gubernatorial election) a bitch and a cancer? Knowing that Lyda had survived breast cancer and a radical mastectomy only a couple of years before?

I think they buried it.

Posted by: Nokilissa at October 1, 2008 1:01 PM

Actually, Biff, she's mastered the art of not answering a question. While all politicians do it, she's taken it to new lows, she won't even answer the easy ones.

On a charitable day, I'd say she was so nervous that the names of any papers or magazines just left her. We've all had brain freeze, where you can't remember your own phone number. However, coupled with the rest of her package, I agree, she's terrifying.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 1, 2008 1:07 PM

Knock knock

"who's there?"

9/11

"9/11 who?"

What, you forgot already?

Posted by: Xander Crews at October 1, 2008 1:08 PM

My sister lives in a coop complex- one of the most beautiful in fact, in the city. every holiday the doors and hallways are full of holiday decorations and no one complains. It's very family oriented. One year, the super put up an entire scary graveyard with cobwebs everywhere outside his doors and the kids (ok. I confess, me too) loved it.

It's ridiculous. A coop board doesn't have more important things to worry about? Jeez. Seems to me if you can afford to buy into the coop, you're not going to put up a full size poster of a naked Jessica Palin ;-) (sorry noki! I couldn't resist! Biff is right. we love you!)

Sorry but whatever happened to us? 9-11 isn't sacred, but it sure is insensitive and cold to bitch about having a flag on your door in honor of a relative who died. Just goes to show we have become all about appearances and zero about substance.

I saw that interview Biff. And there is another video on Huffington, far down on the left, that has a video bit showing that she neither knows who Hamas is or what their role is in the Middle East. So if you really want to be scared, look that one up.

Posted by: bxgrl at October 1, 2008 1:09 PM

Nokilissa, perhaps you had Sex and the City on your mind with the Sarah Jessica Palin mixup.

MM, you really are being charitable. Other theories I've heard is that the Republicans are pumping her with information and sound bites to regurgitate to the press and during the debate which is overwhelming her and going to interfere with her populist rantings and natural ability to connect with "Joe Sixpack". We can only hope.

Posted by: Biff Champion at October 1, 2008 1:14 PM

I think you're right, Biff. Of course, Sarah Jessica Palin. SJP.

I'm going to take a gander at the video Bxgrl pointed to, just to knock a teensy bit more terror into my soul.

And MM, seriously? You think Brain freeze? She couldn't even eek out a Newsweek or a Time? This is the potential President we're talking about here!

I mean, one probably can't expect her to spit out Mother Jones, Atlantic Weekly, Utne Reader, New Republic, Harpers or New Yorker, but give me a break! And there are plenty of conservative reads out there she could be reading... I just don't get it.

Posted by: Nokilissa at October 1, 2008 1:33 PM

Nokilissa, Halloween has come early. I know I'm preaching to the converted, but here's another one for you to check out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

Posted by: Biff Champion at October 1, 2008 1:41 PM

I sorta agree with the board on this, especially in a big coop like that where the rules have to be less flexible. Used to make me nuts to see all the kids' 'artwork' on doors in some coops. I mean, we all love our kids, but hang it on the frig!

Posted by: denton at October 1, 2008 2:24 PM

I were ill as I saw this video, yup, yup, but I say that Palin is ultimately all about job creation and, oh!... (as I glanced at my notes,) I'll get back to ya about what it is that I will do, because as I stood on my roof last night and gazed at Cuba, and I say it's time to keep an eye on Castro from rearing up and entering Miami's night clubs.

Posted by: cmu at October 1, 2008 2:27 PM

OK, there are two issues here.

Neither one of them is actually the flag itself -- and certainly not Jessica Palin.

The first issue is the common problem of people who live in coops thinking that they own their apartments. Like it or not, they don't. They own shares in the corportion that owns the building, and usually have exclusive rights to live there. They don't own the apartments or the the fixtures. That all belongs to the coop. Unfortunately, very few people think about what this actually means.

The second issue is understanding tradeoffs. A coop's board is responsible to its shareholders (i.e. the owners), and if those shareholders live in the building their interests are different than if they don't. If they don't live in the building, perhaps they might want the clearest and least contraversial doors, as that would help sale and even rental values. But if they DO live in the building, it might be in their interests to give up some of that sale or rental value in exchange for some amount of improved lifestyle.

The officers report to the board, who are accountable to the shareholders. And if most of the shareholders disagree with you, then you need either to find a way to deal with it, find another coop or find another kind of housing entirely.

Posted by: ceolaf at October 1, 2008 2:43 PM


To answer the question in the post's title: Yes.

In fact, your bathroom door, bedroom door and closet door all belong to everyone in the coop. So does your toilet, your light switches and any ceiling mounted lights or fans.

Posted by: ceolaf at October 1, 2008 2:46 PM

ceolaf, does that mean the coop board, if they are so inclined, can request one remove one's shaggy toilet seat warmer?

Posted by: Biff Champion at October 1, 2008 2:50 PM

Noki and Biff, please don't mistake my charity for anything other than that. The woman scares the hell out of me, more than McCain does.

I was just reliving my performing days, when I crammed too many opera lyrics into my brain, and then totally forgot them on stage. I got pretty good at making up gibberish in foreign languages. I do NOT want that to be a trait of the leader of this nation however. We just went through 8 years of gibberish in quasi-English from another nut.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 1, 2008 2:52 PM

Maybe because I have never lived in an apartment building that had a long hallway with apt doors, like a hotel, I don't get what the fuss is. How can even children's artwork, let alone a flag and some perhaps tacky holiday decor pull apartment values down to any great extent? As a visitor, I may admire, laugh at, or not even notice other people's doors, but in the long run, I don't think less of the building, or it's residents for some creative expression. I'm sure most people do absolutely nothing at all with their front doors, so the occasional decoration is probably more of an exception rather than the rule.

I still think it's much ado about nothing.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 1, 2008 3:01 PM

Biff- yes, you must get rid of it. In fact, with rules like that you may as well rent that way you won't have the style police check you out for "appropriateness".

It's just a ridiculous issue. I don't care about the board. You spen 20 second walking down your hall and zip into your apartment. We're a nation of f**kin busybodies. How about we worry more about ourselves instead of the state of our neighbor's door?

Posted by: bxgrl at October 1, 2008 3:13 PM

Co-op boards have the right to make rules, but surely they should reflect the concerns of a majority of the shareholders. And one of the points made in the original article is that people in that building weren't complaining about decorations on doors -- it's a really interesting article that goes into a lot of detail about the situation. I highly recommend it!

http://www.habitatmag.com/publication_content/2008_october/web_exclusive_adaptations/authoritarian_boards_public_rancor

Posted by: missmm at October 1, 2008 3:59 PM

I have to agree with having the rule since it's not always a style issue.

My friend bought a condo in a very hoity toity building in Manhattan in the early 90's had her place up for sale last year. Problem was she had a Vietnam Vet who had since moved across the hall from her and basically used his door as a billboard to constantly voice his political agenda in a very "WHAT-ish" way. It was certainly inflammatory, offensive and for lack of a better word disturbing (Hanoi Jane being burned with the words burn b*!ch underneath and the like). Needless to say when he was approach he cited the X-mas wreaths as his defense and they only got him to remove items that had profanities.

She eventually sold the place but not until the building instituted the same nothing on the door rule. It took a while to pass because people who didn't live on that floor didn't quite see it as being as big a problem.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 1, 2008 5:12 PM

I think there can be rules so no one puts something offensive on their doors, but this seems a little like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I guess I just see it as our need to have control over every little thing and while I understand from the board and shareholders point of view. it seems to me you buy into a coop and you should be able to have some say so.

A few years ago my sister's neighbor went into the hospital for a long stay. His daughter turned off the electricity without cleaning out the refrigerator. My niece and nephew were young at the time but the board would not go into the apartment or call the daughter because it wasn't in the rules. When I tell you that smell lasted for months and my family had to live with it day in and day out, I'm not kidding. The first time I went up there and stepped out of the elevator I almost threw up. It was that horrible.

Posted by: bxgrl at October 1, 2008 6:25 PM

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