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September 26, 2008

[Virtually] Duking It Out Over Windsor Terrace

A few weeks ago, a reporter for the Daily News did a shop-through of Windsor Terrace, concluding that it had a "quaint retail mix" — that was actually the article's title. Her take on neighborhood fixture Farrell's — "Farrell's smells like beer, has a hardwood floor, and neon Budweiser signs and an American flag in the windows... It's not my cup of tea - or beer" — inspired a response from a longtime neighborhood resident on Container Diaries, a Windsor Terrace blog. "Institutions like Farrell’s and their survival are critical to the history that is so deeply entrenched in a neighborhood like Windsor Terrace." The debate that follows is so heated, we thought for a minute we were reading Brownstoner.
Protect Your Turf [Container Diaries]
Farrell's Pub. Photo by Rob Hoey.

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WT was traditionally a cop and firemen neighborhood, according to my friend's retired cop uncle. Plenty of people to love a bar like this. I'd think the writer of that article would find that out with a minimum of research, and anybody who knows that would hardly be surprised to find a place like Farrell's in WT. Of course the WT old-timers got angry about their favorite bar and the American flag being insulted. But as usual, the NY Daily News writes some shallow superficial article about a neighborhood without any real research. There was a real gem of an article on PLG by a NY Daily News reporter several months ago or last year, can't recall. It was hilariously bad journalism. The guy spent ten minutes walking past a couple buildings and talking to like, two old guys sitting on stoops, before getting back on the subway. That's it.

Posted by: traditionalmod at September 26, 2008 11:00 AM

see, we can have class warfare in every neighborhood! how quaint.

Posted by: This Aint No Disco at September 26, 2008 11:00 AM

I LOVE bars like this! What's it supposed to smell like Cognac? I do take issue with them using styrofoam cups- boo hiss!

That really was a condescending article. She was asking for it wasn't she? What does she think she writes for the Times?

Take your lumps Lynne Miller or as I like to call you- Ms. Snootysnobbenstein.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at September 26, 2008 11:08 AM

As a former resident of WT, and occasional customer of Farrell's, I have to say that it is precisely the type of old timey (and old man) bar that fills a particular niche and fits well in the neighborhood. Basically it's an institution. On the other hand, as the writer said, it's not everyone's cup of tea (especially many women), and the neighborhood could definitely use a few other options.

Posted by: Paul C at September 26, 2008 11:23 AM

Looks like a college campus bar...and not an especially diverse campus, either. No thanks.

Posted by: East New York at September 26, 2008 11:24 AM

that picture in on St. Patrick's day.. not a day to take a picture of how it is typically.

Posted by: oe at September 26, 2008 11:29 AM

she has the neighbourhood quite wrong for the most part. but i will not be defending farrell's though, from the experience of my friends and neighbours, [a small minority] of the people that hang out their are racist homophobes who like to crude comments to women who dare to walk on their side of the street. not that a hipster bar is the answer but i won't shed a tear for farrell's...

Posted by: sender9999 at September 26, 2008 11:32 AM

One of the bartenders is named Jimmy and sounds like a working-class Irish kid from the 30s. Farrell's is like the wardrobe to Narnia.

Posted by: tybur6 at September 26, 2008 11:54 AM

I was born and bred in WT, and I love this neighborhood with all my heart and soul, but I think I have a unique perspective.

I’m an Irish-American, I went to IHM, and then Bishop Ford. And during those years I felt a huge mix of feelings, because I grew up gay and while I belong here and these are my roots, I was born here, I grew up here. I spend my days in the park and I know every square inch of this area. I was never made to feel welcome by anyone because I wasn’t afraid to come out.

So yes, Farrell’s is an institution, and in a way I’m proud of it, because it’s an example of middle class people trying to make a living and hold on to their roots. Have I ever gone in? I tried…once. Couldn’t get in the door. I was stared down until I left.

Even now, I get jeered from Farrel’s occasionally, shouts of “Go back to Village, yuppie faggot!” are hurled at me and my boyfriend, who is a Jamaica, Queens native. We both grew up poor, and we’re still poor. Only just affording to stay in the neighborhood. I wonder if their attitudes would change if they knew I was a native, or if they knew I wasn’t responsible for gentrifying the area.

I doubt it.

Posted by: Giosue at September 26, 2008 12:03 PM

Once, attempting to kill time before a movie at the Pavilion on a rainy weekend day, I made the mistake of walking into Farrell's with a friend for a quick pop. I had the unmitigated gall to ask the bartender -- an ancient, nasty man, with nary a kind bone in his gnarled body -- what kind of scotch he had. Apoplectic, he sputtered "what do you mean 'what kind of scotch do i have,' I've got scotch scotch, what kind of scotch do you expect?" He wasn't being ironic .. and he spoke loud enough that a couple of regulars heard him and immediately turned their attention to us ... suddenly, an innocent attempt to purchase a drink became menacing.

Screw Farrell's .. another American Apparel would be preferable to its odious brand of local color and history ...

Posted by: EliDManheim at September 26, 2008 1:36 PM

Hey WT community,

Think about what would happen if a true old school crime wave hits given the state of the economy. Think about the Koch or Dinkins days (remember walking the streets during those days?). The author of this article will suddenly wonder why she paid Greenwich prices for her home but didn't get the safety that should come along with prices (her real estate agent didn' t mention that part). Don't get too upset about that article and the outward contempt she feels for the working class (inward if its non-white working class). She probably wont be here long.

Posted by: eastriver at September 26, 2008 1:54 PM

I was in Farrell's once with my girlfriend, they were so rude to us. First when my g/f asked if there were any organic wines available, the man didn't even answer her. Then when we asked if we could hang a sign for a Tibetan Freedom discusson group, we were told "this is your last drink." Then finally a woman with very large breasts came in and all of a sudden the bartender started to completely ignore us, although we were trying to get quarters for the jukebox, which by the way had no Rilo Kiley or Belle and Sebastian.

Signed,
Marvin Milquetoast

Posted by: infinitejester at September 26, 2008 2:10 PM

infinitejester, great taste. For some reason, I love hearing Belle and Sebastian in pubs. I have a feeling they were playing something much less moving in this place.

Posted by: Biff Champion at September 26, 2008 2:16 PM

infinitejester....that should be the quote of the day!!!!! A perfectly appropriate response by a bartender to each of your questions!!! LOL

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 26, 2008 2:18 PM

Um, Biff, Im pretty sure InfiniteJester was living up to his handle.

PLEASE Do not make Windsor Terrace as lame and twee as Park Slope. It would break my heart.

Posted by: Giosue at September 26, 2008 2:20 PM

Despite its rep as a cop hangout, I know quite a few neighborhood guys (the nabe being Sunset Park), small time hustler types, not Irish or Italian either, who hang out at Farrells. Birds of a feather ...

Posted by: LilBitOfLuck at September 26, 2008 2:28 PM

Giosue, yes, even after a very long week of work, I can recognize the satire, which was brilliant, but the fact he mentioned B & S was impressive. (And I really do like them)

Posted by: Biff Champion at September 26, 2008 2:39 PM

Yes, both the organic wine request and the Tibetan discussion group were brilliant. I think we should do the Oct 16 party at Farrell's. What could do wrong???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 26, 2008 2:53 PM

Dave, great idea. And we'll all wear green beads, sweaters and furry hats, just so we can watch the confusion ensue as people ask each other if it's St. Patrick's Day already.

Posted by: Biff Champion at September 26, 2008 2:59 PM

I must send the link to this thread out to a few regulars there. You are making them proud, believe me.

Posted by: ou812 at September 26, 2008 3:08 PM

Awesome, Marvin Milquetoast.

You should be able to look at a bar and know whether its the kind of place where they specialize in scotches, and whether or not its a good place to order wine (or if the one opened bottle has been there for a week). You probably had no cash on you either, Eli.

Whats the big deal here? Marvin Milquetoast should not have to feel comfortable in Farrels, just as Johnny Steamfitter doesn't wouldn't like it in Commonwealth.

I love Farrels. My grandfather went there. My father went there. You don't have to like it, but you should try to understand the significance to the neighborhood (and NYC as a whole).

(And to use a photo where the from the one day where the patrons are extra-yahooish is a cheap shot)

Posted by: greenwood slope at September 26, 2008 3:08 PM

This is the equivalent of going to McSorley's and immediatley not knowinig to say "Light or Dark". Sorry you are johnny come lately's, but some day you'll have you own place to reminisce about.

Posted by: ou812 at September 26, 2008 3:14 PM

I'm all for protecting neighborhood spots but agree that Farrell's shouldn't be too mythologized. It's pretty well-known as a racist, homophobic place--very old skool! Also is where a lot of Muslim American beatdowns were administered after 9/11.

Posted by: bkkkkklyn at September 26, 2008 3:42 PM

oh, and btw, my original comment was rejected from the "Container Diaries" blog, apparently. I just resubmitted it, we'll see if it makes it up there.

I guess only some born and bred WT residents get to have a voice on this person's blog.

Posted by: Giosue at September 26, 2008 4:03 PM

"This is the equivalent of going to McSorley's and immediatley not knowinig to say "Light or Dark."

Actually that happened to me once. I won't make the same mistake again, but someone tell me why hostility has to ensue if you're a newbie and don't know the rules...

www.forgotten-ny.com

Posted by: Kevin Walsh at September 26, 2008 4:04 PM

It's like going to Milk and Honey and ordering a Vodka cocktail - the horror!!

Posted by: A Guest at September 26, 2008 4:22 PM

You know, I see both sides of this as I was born and raised in Staten Island, where every other guy is a fireman or cop who frequented Farrells. I never stepped foot in Farrels until I moved to Park Slope. I moved to Park Slope 10 years ago for the same reason everyone else did. It was a nice nabe with good food, and wine, etc. I like art, music and green markets. So yes, I guess you can call me a "yuppie". (I hate labels) But this is one Yuppie who was happy to discover that Farrells was in the very neighborhood that she moved to. I actually called my old Staten Island friends to brag about how close I lived to Farrels.

Yes I like good food (my mom is a native Italian so I ate well) and good wine. But there aint nothin' better than a tall glass of suds on a hot summer day. So its nice to have Farrells around the block for just that. The rudeness of the staff, I could do without. But being from Staten Island, I know how to give it right back to em'

Posted by: italiana71 at September 26, 2008 4:22 PM

Because you want it to change to cater to you and they don't do that. So suck it up and next time, order a scotch and a beer and as they "Be good or be gone". Or don't go. Pretty much your two options. Your third would be to put up the dukes. Stop, I am gettng nostalgic. They actually serve bottled beer now and covered the tiled floor.

Posted by: ou812 at September 26, 2008 4:32 PM

Giosue (12.03), that's quite a post.

Insular communities are always double-edged. Comforting and safe to those who subscribe to their norms; often hostile to those who don't.

I've never been to Windsor Terrace, even though I grew up in Brooklyn, often wondering what the "other side" of the park was like while visiting family members in Park Slope. (To get them out of their neighborhood is next to impossible -- unless it's Manhattan.)

The picture of Farrell's is appealing. But for an outsider, exclusive. And I write as someone who had an Irish-American girlfriend and am somewhat familiar with her group's simultaneous warmth and wariness (and frequent hostility) to people outside the fold. There she was, bright and beautiful, raised in a limestone house off Fifth Avenue by her Princeton-educated father (who married his Irish servant) and Ivy-educated herself, and out would come a thousand year's worth of resentments -- without warning, breathtaking in their comprehensiveness.

I think Frank McCourt wrote that there's nothing more miserable than childhood, and nothing more miserable than an Irish chidhood. In the case of my girlfriend, even if it's on Fifth Avenue.

Best wishes to you as you make your way day-to-day through the neighborhood. (Seeing those fellows standing in front of Farrell's, I think I'd walk on the other side of the street. And I don't hesitate to walk through tougher neighborhoods than Windsor Terrace.)

Nostalgic on Park Avenue

Posted by: NOP at September 26, 2008 5:28 PM

I recently moved into the SS and a coupla people told me about Farrells, working people, and since I'm one myself, I thought I might stop by one day on my way home from work and suck up this mystical atmosphere along with a cold one.

Since 'stoner's are often accused of using the word 'sketchy' as race baiting or a race code, may I say that I find this place more than 'sketchy'. I'm uncomfortable when I walk by, and I've been in similar iconic bars in NYC. The people I see in there are not cops, and are not firemen, and are not ironworkers. I hang with union guys all the time, and these are not them. I get a very bad vibe about the place, and many of the above comments seem to clarify why.

Posted by: denton at September 26, 2008 6:08 PM

I once took my mother to Farrell's and she was treated with utmost respect. They poured her wine without complaint and were as pleasant as could be.

Posted by: Big Jugs at September 27, 2008 8:45 AM

Here we go again!!

Seems like no matter what you do in WT somebody's gonna be unhappy.

Mr. Houlihan has been gracious enough to carry other products besides budweiser in recognition of his aging & changing clientele. Sorry if the wine wasn't organic enough for you.

The picture is from the Brooklyn Irish parade which has seniors, children & veterans that march each year. How many of you brownstoners watched it these last couple years and were impressed?, something different than the LES or Tompkins Square.

Infinite jester can appreciate a little humor. Sender & Bkkkklyn need to grow or borrow a pair.

At Farrells we've had visitors from many countries and other cities in the U.S.of A who felt the authentic atmosphere reminded them of their own place where they felt comfortable. We have plenty of civil servants and plenty professionals as well. You might recognize some of these men & women when & if you visit local hopsitals or need to call the police, fire department or other city services.

No one is treated differently because of where they work or what they do. If & when you weasels do depart this world for the next one we'll be sure to send an arrangement assuming we know who you are. Or maybe a blanket " to weasel" will suit you just fine. I hope to see some of you the next time the neighborhood dry cleaner owner is murdered, your presence or lack there of was & will be noted. Suffer the death of thy neighbors? For your sakes I hope not. We have lost many dear neighbors some of whom were priced out of the very apartments you now live in. Hope you sleep well.

From me, the guy with the cigarette by the back door.

Posted by: jumpin jack flash at September 29, 2008 1:19 PM

@jumpinjackflash:

"No one is treated differently because of where they work or what they do"

That's crap, as my post will tell you firsthand.

Posted by: Giosue at September 29, 2008 5:06 PM

GIOSUE You may have to closely examine yourself to discover why it is that people find you offensive.
I'm all for "whatever gets you through the night"
but I wouldn't go to a boxing match wearing a tutu.
Seems to me that maybe you and your "boyfriend"
might have mistaken WT for the slope, williamsburg or greenwich village. Yes people in flamboyant clothing do get attention and perhaps the wrong kind, but wasn't that one of the reasons for being outrageously attired?

Try a genuine warm smile next time and perhaps you'll get one in return.

Posted by: jumpin jack flash at September 30, 2008 12:40 PM

Jumpin jack flash: What a complete pig of a man you are.

You forget that I said I grew up here. I dont wear dresses. Most of the time I'm wearing a Mets jersey.

And if I want to hold my partner's hand (was there a need to put "boyfriend" in quotes, really?) I'll do it in my Mets jersey or a GD dress made of out of Metrocards, you don't have the right to say a thing about it.

Posted by: Giosue at September 30, 2008 5:55 PM

I’ve never gone in there again, but I’m sure as hell not going to stop going to Dub pies or Oak Park or any of the stores on 9th ave that I’ve been going to all my life just because some drunken assholes who hate their own life can’t stop yelling at me.

You’ll see me again, making out with my bf across the street from Farrell’s. You’ll notice me, and when you do, you’ll know that I WAS BORN HERE….

Deal with it.

Posted by: Giosue at September 30, 2008 5:57 PM

Okay, then....I grew up there, too. As far as I know, we never called our neighborhood "Windsor Terrace" til they came out with those little phone books with that written on them. I think I used to say I was from Park Slope, and that's when my boyfriend from Marine Park called it Park SLOP!
Farrell's housed my drinking Irish father and grandfather. We drove the hearse past Farrell's the day of each one's funeral...etc. It may not be the most liberal place on earth but I am the liberal I am because I grew up there.
Trashing Farrell's doesn't change a thing. I don't even like going into Farrell's. It's not my thing. I'm a woman, first of all. I come from a long line of alcoholics, secondly and so don't drink and thirdly, that's not where I like to hang out.
Why go hang out where it doesn't feel like home?
Farrell's has never pretended to be anything other than what it is. A neighborhood bar.
Let Farrell's be what it is, kiss whoever you like wherever you like, more power to you and let's all do a little peace, love and harmony.
Have a great day, all.

Posted by: dansa at October 1, 2008 8:30 AM

GIOSUE, It's gotta be the Mets jersey. I can't be that much of a pig as I don't wear lipstick. Sorry for the "quotes" but you also refer to a bf & I stand corrected on the current acceptable phrase, I didn't think of partner. Wishing you many happy thoughts and I'll wave when I see you both. I've never yelled at you so if that's the bug up your arse dona blamea me. Cooking at home can be rewarding and help stretch a budget, you can do wonders with hot dogs. How you serve 'em is your business.

Posted by: jumpin jack flash at October 1, 2008 11:10 AM

JJF DO NOT GO THERE WITH THE METS ! LOL SERIOUSLY WTF IN FARRELLS IS A JUKEBOX SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME ????

Posted by: LADYDI69126 at October 1, 2008 11:38 AM

Lady if you gotta ask where the jukebox is then you're probably a regular. Just whisper the secret password to
Eddie the bartender, he'll show ya....smile. I'm tired of the Clancy brothers anyway. How about some NKOTB!!! ( LOL!)

Posted by: jumpin jack flash at October 1, 2008 1:09 PM

I would be interested in seeing some hard facts re " a lot of
Muslim-American beatdowns after 9/11" First of all, there are not a lot of Muslim-Americans in the neighborhood, so where did the alleged victims come from? I do specifically remember some people I know going to Pierre's and the Love Store to make sure the owners were ok and letting them know they were valued members of our community. I also find Ms. Miller's
article condescending and most of all, almost every picture's caption was wrong. If I am setting myself up as the authority on what a neighborhood needs, I don't care if it is a different department of the paper, I am going to make damn
sure the pictures of the neighborhood are correctly identified.

Posted by: Redmimi at October 1, 2008 1:58 PM

Now, wait a minute. Jumpin Jack Flash, I may have to come and kick your ass. I may not hang out in Farrell's but let's have some friggin respect for the CLANCY BROTHERS, alright???!! LOL!!! I love the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem. Love them. Will and can listen all day long, every day....so careful, now, sonny.

OMG Redmimi, that Miller person's captions under the photos are so vague and ridiculous, it's just silly.

Posted by: dansa at October 3, 2008 11:10 PM

I am so sorry, I was totally kidding and did not realize I had typed a poor choice of word to Jumpin Jack Flash. Peace and all.

Posted by: dansa at October 3, 2008 11:12 PM

Hey Dansa, Didn't mean to offend one of the many Clancy Brothers fans out there! ( You know who you are!) I should have picked on Andy Cooney! ( smile) Glad some foks still have a sense of humor. C'mon over and visit out saloon, you may be quite surprised to meet some folks and have a few laughs. Funny, I was in another institution closeby recently, and it seems they have none of the animosity & hostility prevalent in the "yupper windsor terrace" neighborhood with people of all kinds, sizes & creeds laughing at bad kareoke & getting on well with locals and tourists. Maybe we can learn something from them ehh?
Peace & love to all with malice towards none, it ain't just words. Wishing nuthin' but sunshine to all y'all.

Posted by: jumpin jack flash at October 7, 2008 12:02 PM

LOL Jumpin' Jack! I don't do Farrell's. I believe if I were to walk in there, someone'd fall over and my dad would spin IN his grave.....but if you promise me some Clancy Brothers with Tommy Makem, and you promise to play it REALLY LOUD (cuz that's the only way I can sing along with it), it's a deal~!!

Posted by: dansa at October 12, 2008 2:17 AM

Awwww loosen up Dansa, people fall off their stools every now & then. We may even be able to round up a quartet to sing with you. I believe the last song I've heard sung in Farrells was Danny Boy but it's also possible it coulda been the unicorn song. Check out an article by Ken Nolan
which is linked and excerpted at container diaries a local blog. Seems everyone has their own era but he's got it described pretty well. I can confirm the late great Mr. Eddie Farrell was every bit as grand as he's painted.
So far I haven't run into giosue yet but I'm still hopeful.
Cead mile failte, I got the first round!

Posted by: jumpin jack flash at October 16, 2008 12:58 PM

LOL!! You're funny. My Mother says you are correct that Mr. Eddie Farrell was every bit as grand as he's painted. I love the Unicorn song, that'll work! Yes, I realize that there's not much music at Farrell's and the last thing I heard sung there was also Danny Boy. Okay, if you're buying, I'm in. Diet Coke for me, though. The quartet I want is Jimmy Houlihan, Joe Heegan, Gerard McKenna and Joe Gallagher!!

Posted by: dansa at October 19, 2008 3:27 PM

Hi Dansa,

It's with great sadness I pass along the news that Danny Mills Sr. one of the bartenders has passed away suddenly yesterday. Sadly, our next Danny Boy will be for him. Love your choice of quartet but I don't think there will be any smiles for a while. Your diet coke coupon is good anytime.
I'll be in and out of the place all week, see you around.
May God have mercy on his soul.

Posted by: jumpin jack flash at October 20, 2008 11:05 AM

Muslim american beatdowns'?
I've live in this neighborhood since 1977.
I've never heard of a single such beatdown.
got any proof? articles?

Posted by: richierich at October 22, 2008 2:16 AM

Can't believe no one mentioned it's famous for the best tasting "On Tap" beer in the city.

Posted by: richierich at October 22, 2008 2:25 AM

Jumpin Jack,

I am so very sad to hear of this loss to our neighborhood and our lives. My aunt called me the day after I posted that quartet and told me. Thank you for letting this page know. Danny Mills was a pleasure to be around. May Danny Boy sound clear and strong. My thoughts and prayers are with you all.

Posted by: dansa at October 22, 2008 10:49 PM

Hey Dansa,

You're a real peach, thank you for your thoughts and prayers for his family. The SI Advance has a link to a guest book below if you would like to leave a note for his family. ( see below) You can bet we'll sing it out strong for him. There's a very nice rememberance of Danno on the container site if you would like to check it out by Bobby Burke. He did a great job of capturing a larger than life personality in words. Until we all meet again under the shade of the trees. Please give your aunt our regards and we'll keep a light on for ya.

http://obits.silive.com/SIAdvance/GB/GuestbookView.aspx?PersonId=119116419

Posted by: jumpin jack flash at October 28, 2008 6:00 PM

« Rainy Ribbon Cutting for Trader Joe's Grand Avenue Haunted House Gets Its Siding »

September 26, 2008

[Virtually] Duking It Out Over Windsor Terrace

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