« Bird Blog: Week 17 Open House Picks »
September 12, 2008
Open House Picks: Six Months Later
Not sure how 401 Park Place went for over ask, but here's the Acris documentation to prove it. Overall, some respectable results, don't you think?
Open House Picks 3/7/08 [Brownstoner]
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Comments
it must be a hoax. real estate is crashing - don't you listen to anon?
Posted by: BrooklynLove at September 12, 2008 12:51 PM
Cue the predictable DOWhat response...
"Future foreclosures...LMMAO"
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 12:58 PM
Like a little time machine looking back and seeing the What say these houses would never sell. Great for comic relief.
Posted by: wasder at September 12, 2008 12:59 PM
Yeh, I'd love to hear the low down on 401 Prospect Place.
Posted by: NeoGrec at September 12, 2008 1:08 PM
wasder, thanks! That was amazing. I just went back to the original thread for these and sure enough, The What did indeed post the following (does this mean we might actually survive October 16?:
"Welcome to a new episode of "Future Foreclosures".
Prospect Heights...Crack pipe land. Will not sell next!!
Windsor Terrace...900 square feet. Get the fuck out of here Next!
Prospect Lefferts Gardens...6000k a month of costs, yeah fucking right, Next!
Stuyvesant Heights...825K down the street from the crack house???!! Next Next Next!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...."
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 1:12 PM
Believe me I am sweating Oct 16th big time.
Posted by: wasder at September 12, 2008 1:16 PM
love how peope keep dissing the WT and it keeps on sellin
Posted by: blackstoner at September 12, 2008 1:50 PM
Cue lechacal to explain why this is such bad news for NY real estate: it should be mirroring the rest of the country!!!
Posted by: FatLenny at September 12, 2008 1:54 PM
WOW! Real Estate is King!
1.82 million for a 3-story house in Prospect Heights!
Amazing.
Posted by: sam at September 12, 2008 2:09 PM
I guess us bears better be careful for what we ask for (6ML threads)!
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at September 12, 2008 2:23 PM
Like a lot of others here, I'm living out my long term confidence in Brooklyn by having sold an apt here and sunk a whole lot more into a full house where we plan to live hopefully for a long time.
However- it's worth pointing out that the closings in June, July, August are really reflecting contractual obligations from March, April, May-
I closed in May after a Dec contract, and even then, the market feelings had changed pretty dramatically, and the price I was obligated to pay was probably higher than the house would have commanded at that point in time.
I think it will be really interesting to see what the closings are like 3-4 months from NOW, as this is so far the worst point of the year in the housing news, stock market, bank bust cycle we're going through.
Posted by: Park Place at September 12, 2008 2:24 PM
Fair point, Park Place. I respect your objectivity. Real time does not exist in RE.
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at September 12, 2008 2:29 PM
Park Place--same boat here and I agree that it will be interesting to watch sale prices over the next few months. I signed the contract in July and will close next week so we are a little faster than you, and we did get a few hundred thousand off the original ask (approx 20% off original ask) but it is not clear to me whether or not I could have gotten this same house even cheaper in a few more months. I will never know of course and it is a fruitless task to think about such things but still, it is healthy for even for those of us who have recently purchased to be realistic.
Posted by: wasder at September 12, 2008 2:30 PM
Once again Biff baiting The What and even recycling his old comments. This site is becomming more about The What than it is about informed discussion about Brooklyn real estate.
Posted by: A Guest at September 12, 2008 2:32 PM
A Guest--you don't think its relevant to this particular discussion to note that the "prescient" What stated that these houses would never sell?
Posted by: wasder at September 12, 2008 2:36 PM
DOW---if the prices go way down in the next 6 months I will man up and make a similar comment to what you wrote above. Nicely done, and no I am not being sarcastic.
Posted by: wasder at September 12, 2008 2:38 PM
No, not really.
Posted by: A Guest at September 12, 2008 2:39 PM
Once again A Guest (DOWhat's 4th logon ID) trolling and continuing to add absolutely zero to the discussion. I love it.
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 2:41 PM
I agree with Wasder and Park Place that the market feels a lot different than it did even 4 months ago. Is it crashing? No, but suddenly, there is palpable shift in sentiment among sellers/brokers and some considerable price cuts. That said, prices are still very high so I don't think there's reason for panic on the part of the sellers - prices raced up so fast over the last 5-10 years that even if they drop 20-30% from peak levels, most sellers will be doing just fine. We ourselves are ready to buy tomorrow if we find the right house (knowing, though, that we have more leverage now since we are buyers with no need to sell our former place which is already sold). In other words, we're not waiting for a market crash, but we are seeing the market continue to soften, and indeed it will be interesting to track this "six months later" feature over the next year or so. But even if we bought something tomorrow and the value went down over the next year or two (which I actually think it would), we're in it for the long haul so would find that OK. On the other hand, we are patient, since we will certainly not go for some of the preposterous prices we were seeing in the last year (which in many cases, we later saw drop...)
Posted by: Miss Muffett at September 12, 2008 2:42 PM
wasder, thanks. I agree that it's relevant and interesting to go back and see what posters (not just DOWhat, but all posters) were predicting about listing prices and comparing those predictions to the actual sales prices. I cited DOWhat because he's the most vocal, obnoxious and sure of himself so it's even more fun to prove him wrong.
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 2:44 PM
Miss Muffett, thanks for sharing your feelings on your own situation. I'm curious to know, if you care to share this too, in what specific areas you're targeting to buy? I'm still not seeing much softening in "prime" Brooklyn, i.e., BH, PS, CH.
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 2:50 PM
No, I'm a long time visitor who used to enjoy reading Brownstoner for lively, informed discussion. The What has been a cancer on this site, and you are just an enabler Biff. Do I add anything to a discussion? No, that's why I read and don't spout off about something I am not familiar with.
Posted by: A Guest at September 12, 2008 2:52 PM
A Guest, at least we agree on two things: The What is a cancer on this site (although I do like having him around) and you add nothing to the discussion.
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 2:55 PM
But you just did A Guest!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 12, 2008 2:55 PM
"Is it crashing? No, but suddenly, there is palpable shift in sentiment among sellers/brokers and some considerable price cuts."
You've lost me.
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at September 12, 2008 3:09 PM
These stats do lend credence to the argument last week--which I did not participate in--that the PLG market is indeed in a serious downward cycle. This lovely, fully renovated, mint condition house on one of the very best block in Lefferts Manor sold for 90K under asking. That says something about the market in the area. And it ain't positive. On the flip side, selling for aprox 9% under ask is not so bad....
Posted by: shillstoner at September 12, 2008 3:11 PM
Wow these numbers are sure as hell interesting and even encouraging for some. Prices in Forte Greene specifically continue to amaze me (pleasantly:)
We are of the belief that the really prime areas of Brooklyn i.e PS, FG, BH, CH, etc will withstand the current crisis easily. However I do agree partially with the naysayers that "fringe" hoods will depreciate significantly i.e. >20% albeit gradually.
So yes Brooklyn will be fine depending on the hood.
Adieu et bonne weekend.
Posted by: pierre de taille at September 12, 2008 3:17 PM
Agree with Guest. Stop baiting the cancer. He's the parasite that only exists if you pay attention to him. We all know his insights are limited to the headlines on his Yahoo page, so why encourage that loser?
Posted by: FatLenny at September 12, 2008 3:20 PM
Agree with pierre de taille even if it should be "bon weekend."
Posted by: FatLenny at September 12, 2008 3:22 PM
Well Biff, I may add nothing, but I rarely detract from a topic (as you do, when you give The What the attention he needs.)
And your same arguements that I'm adding nothing to this topic are silly and childish. I remember coming here 6 months to a year ago and enjoying what you, dave, montrose morris and the usual regulars had to say about the real estate market in brooklyn. Now it's turned into "_____ sold for over ask, the what's wrong lol!!"
Sadly, Brownstoner has become more lowbrow than Curbed, which is sad since all their brooklyn posts are trolling about park slope stroller moms and williamsburg hipsters.
Posted by: A Guest at September 12, 2008 3:34 PM
Biff - we looking in PS and also considering surrounding hoods. As I said, prices are still high, and there is a stalemate among some sellers and some buyers, but this past year was the first since we started following market closely (around 2000) where I saw sellers relent and in some cases make big price drops if they really want to avoid market lingering. It happened to friends of mine - one had to reduce her townhouse from nearly 2mil to 1.75, another her apt from 850 to 790 - and another glaring example is a house featured several times on this list on PPW (around 1st St I think) - it came out of the gate priced by Corcoran at 3.2, and after several rounds of price cuts, wound up at 2.6, though now is with another realtor for around 2.2. There are many other examples I could cite (Brown Harris Stevens has several recent townhouses that had to make significant price cuts, accept lower offers, or were simply taken off the market) which by all accounts, are showing a clear trend. Our decision to sell our previous place before buying a new one was complex, but in retrospect, I think we lucked out since I would not want to currently be in a position of having to sell fast (and in our case, we still needed a good price for our apt to buy a house). If we'd bought many many years ago, of course, we'd still have made a killing, even in this market, and even with the kind of price declines that are starting to happen.
Posted by: Miss Muffett at September 12, 2008 3:36 PM
Oh, and the price cuts I was just quoting were properties in *prime* Park Slope. DOW, what I meant is that up until this past spring, all the brokers we were working with were still very optimistic about the market, and some even questioned our decision to sell before buying. Just in the last few months, however, all the brokers we know are conceding times are getting tougher, and say we did the right thing to have sold, and of course they love us as potential clients since we have cash in hand, and are not needing to sell a current property that may get considerably under ask (nor do we need to get a huge mortgage which is also much more difficult now than a few months ago). And friends of mine who have to sell are also bracing themselves for accepting less than hoped (though again, still a lot of money since prices are not plunging...)
Posted by: Miss Muffett at September 12, 2008 3:41 PM
FatLenny, I like you, but let's be realistic. DOWhat's not going away whether he's being baited or not. He will exist regardless and has shown nothing will keep him away, including his own self-proclaimed disdain for this site. Either way, I wasn't trying to bait; I just found it very amusing to go back and view his outlandish comments on these homes in light of what they sold for. I guess I take some warped pleasure in calling him out on his failed predictions. It's like a cyber Shoot-The-Freak game I suppose.
A Guest, I'm not going to apologize for going off topic. I often post on topic and I don't see anything wrong with throwing out some non-related questions and comments from time to time and having a bit of fun. People that are offended by it need to chill. It's a blog for goodness sakes! We aren't trying to save the world here. Don't attack me and I won't attack you.
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 3:44 PM
Thanks Miss Muffett. For the last few years, before and after I bought in BH, I've been watching the home prices of family sized apartments / brownstones in BH and PS. As a casual observer and not someone actively looking to buy, I really haven't seen that much of a softening. However, it sounds like you have lots of first hand observations on price changes and how sellers are responding to offers these days, so I'll take your word for it.
Congratulations on your good timing with respect to your sale and best of luck in finding your dream home.
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 3:51 PM
Can anyone comment on 401 Park Pl? As a PH homeowner I'm curious to know what took this house over the top. I believe this is on the Underhill/Washington block -- which isn't quite as prime as Vanderbilt/Underhill.
Posted by: NeoGrec at September 12, 2008 3:52 PM
Fair enough, Biff. It just broke my heart when the New York mag story came out. I'd just like to starve the weasel despite after he's been so blown out of proportion. Plus, we know he responds to evidence and facts with pure denial.
Posted by: FatLenny at September 12, 2008 3:58 PM
Fat Lenny--no this block isn't quite as prime as Vanderbilt/Underhill--but it is a great block--al houses and very green. I think the house had been renovated nicely.....
When we bought our place in 2007 we saved about $300K just becasue we were willing to cross Underhill and walk about half a block up.....So maybe the same house in the same condition would have sold for 2.1 on theVanderbilt/Underhill block?
Posted by: PHfamily at September 12, 2008 4:06 PM
A Guest--I appreciate what you say to a point. The What is a cancer and he does thrive on the attention that combat with some of us provides. However, it is not necessarily true that if you don't take the bait that he goes away either and then you have his hideous thoughts/opinions sitting around unchallenged like lead weights in whatever discussion is going on. I have gone back and forth on this and agree that the discussion is marred by his participation but I am unsure of what tact to take. In this particular case I felt like pointing out that he said none of these houses would sell was relevant to the discussion. However if other people are really bummed out by my tackling of the What's nonsense I will do my best to refrain from engaging him.
Posted by: wasder at September 12, 2008 4:47 PM
Miss Muffett: I took a similar approach to the market as you, watching for something that I liked that fell into my price range. I was obligated to buy and sell at the same time but luckily my two bedroom coop sold quickly so I wasn't stuck with two mortgages. So I feel like I benefited from the softening market--but who knows how much lower I could have gone if I waited. I am not going to kick myself now but I will keep track so I understand the dynamics of my decision better.
Posted by: wasder at September 12, 2008 4:50 PM
I just LOVE seeing the selling prices and then going back to see what all the comments were at the time.
You'd think there would be more humility on this board.
Posted by: MR at September 12, 2008 5:02 PM
Wasder - if you bought a place you can stay in for the long haul, you're probably fine. Just as some people need to sell sometimes, others feel like they need to buy. Luckily, we found a nice, economical rental where we can camp out comfortably enough while we look to buy. And again, we are not going to "wait for the bottom" of the market since who knows when that is. Given that we sold at what might have been the peak (or close to it), we can afford to buy into even a relatively high market. I'm just saying that we are very aware that we're in a good position since the market dynamics are moving in our favor, and I think we, like many other buyers now, are getting pickier and not putting up with ridiculous asking prices. Sellers who price to sell will still do just fine - it's those who think the party is not over (and price unrealistically) who may be in for an unpleasant surprise.
Posted by: Miss Muffett at September 12, 2008 5:04 PM
I think the market is slowing but prime areas in the NYC area are still selling at close to ask or higher. Market looks strong when you can sell that Wterrace home at that price. Nice home but small...If the Fed keeps bailing out all these lenders I would rather buy a house with my money than see the value of it decrease thru inflation.....
Posted by: HOBOKENROCKS at September 12, 2008 6:59 PM
Miss Muffett, with regard to selling and not rolling the money back over immediately, weren't you concerned about capital gains taxes coming into play?
Posted by: TownhouseLady at September 12, 2008 7:27 PM
Here we go again,
and I know you folks remember me because I have been posting here for quite a while.
There will be no crash. there will be no Bush recession. there is and has been a slow down or even a correction in housing. But no doomsday scenario as some assclown has been posting here for some time now with the assistance of obsequious toadies.
GDP hit a low point in the 4th quarter of 2007 (positive 0.2%), it has been increasing since.
The feds are bailing out FannieMae and FreddieMac, for better worse. this means there will be no further domino effect from the mortgage "meltdown" that is where it ended. Financials have taken a beating for over a year straight now and some companies have even failed.
Oil will stabilize, mainly because americans have finally decided to make a change and both presidential candidates have vowed to follow that mandate.
Barring some large catastrophe or Russian/Iranian/Pakistani annoyance, we should continue to see shallow ups and downs in the economy.
Housing in NYC will continue to be desirable because we are a world center for finance,arts, diplomacy, literature, music, architecuture, fashion,publishing and media amongst other things.
A few days ago, I gave some of you folks a clue about buying a brownstone in the last of the areas where one is still affordable (under 800K). I said it was an area in the center of Brooklyn surrounded by gentrifying areas and with a close proximity to Manhattan. I guess Corcoran got the hint. Previously I have posted that the time to buy is when everyone else is scared, as in the early nineties when you could pick up a brownstone in park slope for 500k.
But hey, there's a reason some folks get ahead while others sing the Bohemian rhapsody.
Posted by: Legion at September 12, 2008 7:45 PM
Shillstoner, You must know nothing. The PLG house is a two story home that sold for over a million!!! This is at, or above, a record for two story houses in the Manor. What difference does it make that the seller tried to get even more???
Posted by: dt at September 12, 2008 9:20 PM
dt, what is with the hostility? You must be a PLG resident!!
Actually, the record for 2 stories in LM is 1.15M. In Summer 07. This house was totally comparable, and that is why the BHS realtor set this price, no doubt. And that is why the sale price of this house is noteworthy--it is 90K below the sale price of an identical 2 story (no extension) on Lincoln Road (which is of course less desirable than Midwood) a year ago. Indicating a drop in prices. But as I said, it is a small decrease, and as you say 1 Million for a 2 story in LM is a lot.
Prices rise and prices fall. People have to stop taking it all so personally.
Posted by: shillstoner at September 13, 2008 12:31 AM
Actually Shillstoner, the house on Lincoln that sold for 1.15 was a three story house, I believe. And you haven't yet commented on the other house on Midwood that needs new baths and a kitchen that sold this summer for 975K. No hostility here, just facts.
Posted by: dt at September 13, 2008 12:13 PM
Townhouse lady - the capital gains penalty (used to be that you had to buy a new house with a time limit) is now gone. The only capital gains issue is if you make that more than 250K on your property, or 500K if you're married. So no, we're not worried about not immediately rolling over the money into another property, though as I've said we're ready with cash in hand to do so when we see the right place at right price....
Posted by: Miss Muffett at September 13, 2008 2:33 PM
Miss Muffett in the catbird seat!
Posted by: wasder at September 13, 2008 2:40 PM
dt, No, the house I am talking was a two story. And I'm not sure what the point is about the Midwood house you mentioned. My point is simply that here are two comparable houses in LM that sold roughly a year apart and seeing a decline of 90K in prices. Obviously, two houses doesn't say much. The fact that the lovely two story on Rutland was taken off the market even after a major price cut failed to get a seller would support the argument of a decline--but we'll have to see how the other current listings fare.
Posted by: shillstoner at September 13, 2008 7:05 PM
uve gotta be joking with that windsor terrace house.u can buy the same exact property in the good part of philly.(the northeast) for 70-80k at the most.so once again, WHAT THE HELL R U PEOPLE PAYING FOR?!!!!
Posted by: buckfast at September 13, 2008 9:40 PM
buckfast-
"ur" one note is getting stale. This is a conversation about Brooklyn real estate. We all know that the NYC real estate market is different from the market in Philly, PA, NJ, or the North Pole. Yes. We get it. Thank you.
Go find "Phillystoner" or something...or find something constructive, interesting, insightful, or at least cleaver to say.
Posted by: MR at September 13, 2008 11:06 PM
Shillstoner, What two story houses are you talking about? I have no clue. I know of no 2 story house that has been on the market on Rutland. My point about the two story on Midwood is that a house in need of renovation closed for close to a million in LM, in this market. You made the statement that housing prices in LM are dropping because 196 Midwood sold for 90K below ask. I'm showing you another house that sold for ask, and a good price- in the same market, on the same street. If there was a two story house on Lincoln that sold for 1.15 a year ago, super. But that one house (if it really is a two story), doesn't set the entire market for the area. I personally thought 196 was asking too much for a two story. The price it sold for was solid, not a sign of decline.
Posted by: dt at September 14, 2008 12:27 AM
Looking at his name, his past comments and his comments here, we see Shillstoner ALWAYS bashes the Brooklyn real estate market, to the point he even promotes the suburbs. Clearly a very biased person.
Have some sense. Different neighborhoods are in different price ranges with different offerings. People choose them according to their priorities and lifestyle. Being a place where relative bargains can be found is not a bad thing. PLG is where one can still get a house for around a million on good subway lines and on the park. Clue for you, Shillstoner -- not everybody has the same bank account or priorities. They can't (or won't) all spend $1.5 million on a 2-story house. Like if they prefer a one-family home because they don't want to be landlords looking after an apartment. Or if they prefer private school over public and want the extra money to go towards that instead. And so on.
Oh and by the way? We bought our house identical to this one for $150K less, two years ago. So PLG is hardly in some kind of major freefall.
Posted by: traditionalmod at September 14, 2008 11:56 AM
i understand what u mean MR.the reason i keep asking is cause no one has yet answered my question.what exactly r u paying for?
Posted by: buckfast at September 14, 2008 5:11 PM
"what exactly r u paying for?"
Not living in a city where the first prize in a contest is staying one night and the second prize is staying two, or, as W.C. Fields put it "I once spent a year in Philadelphia, I think it was on a
Sunday. ..."
:-)
Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 14, 2008 6:45 PM
right,cause brooklyn is so safe and secure.
Posted by: buckfast at September 14, 2008 7:06 PM
It certainly isn't B*O*R*I*N*G, or a running joke, like certain other cities not worth mentioning :-)
Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 14, 2008 7:17 PM
boring? u dont know what the hell ur talking about.have u ever even bin to philly?
Posted by: buckfast at September 14, 2008 7:21 PM
Yes, unfortunately.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 14, 2008 7:33 PM
Look, it's not a matter of Philly vs Brooklyn. The point is that this is not the forum for that discussion. You don't go on a NY Knicks board and start screaming about the Eagles or Flyers. My point is nobody here cares about Philly. Yes, the prices are probably much more sane than here, but NOBODY HERE CARES. To keep going on and on about it is really just a waste of time and energy. Please add something of value to the discussion about Brooklyn real estate. Your comments will be welcome. But seriously you're beating a dead horse with the Philly stuff.
MR
ps Why do YOU live in Brooklyn?
Posted by: MR at September 14, 2008 9:39 PM
Tradionalmod, I've never once "bashed" the Brooklyn market. Not once. I've been living here since you were a teenageer in Iowa and am the proudest Brooklnite around. The point of my name is that this site has become nothing more than a way to promote and shill for the RE market. It disturbs me greatly. And yes I know, love it or leave it, etc etc. Nor have I ever "promoted" the suburbs. I have defended the burbs against absurd and stupid generalizations and unwarranted bashing, but that is not promoting them. Loving Brooklyn does not require us to be idiots about everywhere else.
dt, the two story I referred to was on the corner of Rutland and Bedford--2 story with doctors offices on the basement level. Beautifully renovated. Listed with BHS. Initial ask was too high but then it was cut by 100K. Not too long ago is was taken off the market. Chances are, it'll be back on at a lower price soon.
Posted by: shillstoner at September 14, 2008 11:20 PM
Oh, I just checked traditioanalmod's profile and shockingly she is from PLG too. Why do some people take RE values in their neighborhood so personally? The market is not personal. The value of your home does not reflect anything about you. You really don't have to attack everyone who questions the health of the market in your area!
Posted by: shillstoner at September 14, 2008 11:30 PM
Well yeah, Shillstoner. Because those who know the most about a neighborhood are the ones who live in it.
I never puff things up. I am very very honest. Like how there aren't great amenities in PLG, the public schools aren't good so you should be someone who is okay with private schools anyway, etc etc. But being a fan of my own neighborhood is NOT a crime and doesn't mean I am lying. Nor is it a crime to have enthusiasm for beautiful old houses and their preservation which only occurs through new enthusiasm and resources from new homeowners coming in. If this revival of Brooklyn wasn't happening these neighborhoods and houses would be decaying. And you seem you would like to see that happen.
As for your claim you don't bash Brooklyn and buying here, here are your own quotes off your profile:
"If prices in Brooklyn drop a lot we may see more people staying, but with prices as they are I think there will continue to be a steady supply of people moving out of the city."
"Ever been to Bedford, Katonah, and many other such towns? It's like saying I hate Brooklyn because of the identical brick houses with aluminum awnings."
"Brownstoner, you have become such an out and out Realtor Shill! It is astonishing that you no longer even bother to pretend that you are anything but a cheerleader for the market."
Posted by: traditionalmod at September 15, 2008 11:21 AM
Yes, and none of those quotes bash Brooklyn or buying here at all.
Quote 1 relates to the basic fact that prices are too high for a huge number of people who wish they could afford to buy in Brooklyn but can't.
Quote 2 relates to the fact that there are lovely suburbs and that the burbs are as diverse as Brooklyn.
Quote 3 relates to the fact that this site is nothing more than a place to shill for Realtors and for home owners to try to puff up prices in their hoods. That isn't attacking Brooklyn or the market--it is attacking Brownstoner.
So, where exactly do you see anything at all negative about Brooklyn?
As for the fact that you live in PLG making you an expert--yes, residents know the most about their area. But they are totally biased when it comes to determining market value and no one with a brain will listen to an area resident regarding what they think a listing is worth.
Posted by: shillstoner at September 15, 2008 1:18 PM
"If this revival of Brooklyn wasn't happening these neighborhoods and houses would be decaying. And you seem you would like to see that happen."
Where do you get off making a comment like that? I have restored 3 brownstones over the years. How many have you personally restored?
Your comment is exactly what is wrong with this site:
You take the market personally.
You misunderstand statements and don't take the needed 30 seconds to understand what the person is saying--then you attack based on your total lack of understanding.
You make absurd comments about others' motives and beliefs based on nothing.
Posted by: shillstoner at September 15, 2008 1:46 PM
Shillstoner, the house you are referring to is not on Rutland Road. It is on the corner of Midwood. It is a three story house, not a two story. The garden level, which is the doctor's office, is completely unrenovated. The top floor has also not been renovated. This means the buyer would have to do the upstairs bath, possibly new wiring and plumbing, and the entire garden level. This is why the house was over priced, and this is why the house did not sell. This has nothing to do with the real estate market in PLG, or elsewhere. Please check your facts before making sweeping comments.
Posted by: dt at September 15, 2008 7:10 PM
dt, perhaps I had the street wrong, but that is a 2 story house with an english basement. In this case the english basement has access from the side street and has doctors offices in it. But it is most definitely not a 3 story house. As I am sure you know, the garden floor of a 3 story house is less below grade than this one and has a formal dining room and a large kitchen with direct acces to the garden. This house has an english basement which needed less renovation than most do. Yes, the top floor needed work, but the first floor was completely renovated with a high-end kitchen. It also had garages, as I recall, all of which made the reduced asking price quite reasonable when compared to recent comps in the area.
As for my making "sweeping statements" what I said about this house was that it's failure to sell "would support the argument of a decline." That hardly seems like a sweeping statement.
I don't know how I got sucked into a big PLG argument!
Posted by: shillstoner at September 16, 2008 12:00 PM
218 Midwood Street is a three story house. The city has it listed as 3,342 square feet. The two story houses are 1,800 square feet. The city does not include the square footage of english basements when calculating. They do, however, list the garden level square footage. This house has a side entrance that is one step down from the street, as are all garden level entrances. If you look behind the shrubs in front, you will find full height windows, not the small windows like the two story house next door. Many houses in the nabe with doctor's offices on the bottom floor have the kitchens and dining rooms on the parlor level.
Posted by: dt at September 16, 2008 8:26 PM
DT's posts are perfect examples of exactly why potential buyers SHOULD listen to people who live in a neighborhood. Especially PLG, because everybody knows everybody and have often been inside the houses in question. Or at the least walked past them every day for years. They know all the recent comps in detail. They know all about who the new neighbors are, which tells you what the new wave of residents in a place are like. Which is very telling and important to know when making an investment in a previously undervalued area that's turning around.
No debate for me on that. I'd personally NEVER move somewhere without checking out the local blogs and residents' comments or even talking to residents on the sidewalk, of a neighborhood I was interested in.
That research is not specific to PLG or in promotion of PLG or whatever. I did it in California and made an excellent investment, I did it here. That's all.
Posted by: traditionalmod at September 17, 2008 9:19 AM
Checking in to see if anyone responded to my last post. Just in case either of you are doing the same:
dt: I disagree. Regardless of what the city has it listed as, it is functionally a 2 story with a better than average english basement. And there are many cases of 2 story homes in which propertyshark (which uses city data) includes the basement in the square footage.
Tradionalmod; On that I totally agree. As I said in my earlier post: "yes, residents know the most about their area. But they are totally biased when it comes to determining market value and no one with a brain will listen to an area resident regarding what they think a listing is worth." Was I not clear enough for you? Residents are a font of wisdom regarding life in their neighborhood. But they should be ignored when it comes to market value.
Posted by: shillstoner at September 21, 2008 12:41 PM
Latest Restaurant Additions
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Le Barricou
added November 20, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Der Schwarze Kölner
added November 19, 2009 12:00 PM in Fort Greene -
Oak Wine Bar & Café
added November 18, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Mr. Wonton
added November 17, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Casa Rosa
added November 16, 2009 12:00 PM in Carroll Gardens -
Cousin John's Café & Bakery
added November 13, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Elote
added November 12, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Miracle Grill
added November 11, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Phoebe's Cafe
added November 10, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Ruthie's
added November 9, 2009 12:00 PM in Clinton Hill, Downtown Brooklyn
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