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September 12, 2008
Open House Picks
Park Slope
150 Berkeley Place
Townsley & Gay
Sunday 12-2
$1,995,000
GMAP P*Shark
Cobble Hill
257 Warren Street
Fillmore
Sunday 12-1:30
$1,695,000
GMAP P*Shark
Crown Heights
853 Prospect Place
Corcoran
Sunday 12-1
$1,095,000
GMAP P*Shark
Beverley Square West
243 Marlborough Road
Brooklyn Properties
Sunday 1-2:30
$779,000
GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
Well, you know I'm going to see the Crown Heights house. It's on one of the prettiest blocks of Crown Heights, and I've long wondered what it looked like inside. It's closer to NY Ave than Nostrand, which is quiet and has beautiful houses around it, and across the street.
It's 30 feet wide, and has a garage. It's always been well kept on the outside, so I hope the interior is a keeper. Unless it's a total wreck, I'm going to go out on a limb and break my nothing over a million opinion on this one. It may make asking.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 12, 2008 1:30 PM
Interesting range of neighborhoods and price ranges today Brownstoner. The Cobble Hill one is the only one that really jumps out and says "what the heck are they thinking". Man thats an ugly overpriced house. Beverly Sq is intriguing as is the Crown Heights one. Kudos though for finding some properties that could be great value for the right buyers.
Posted by: wasder at September 12, 2008 1:36 PM
The Crown Heights house looks very intriguing to me.. I think I will also have to check this out... The exterior is NICE.. This place makes a statement... The Park Slope house is very cute but the prices in that area keep me out...
Posted by: Amzi Hill at September 12, 2008 1:44 PM
The Cobble Hill home looks like a mess, but I think the others look good. Park Slope seems to be realistically priced, despite needing bathroom and kitchen upgrades.
Montrose, let us know about the Crown Heights home. I seem to remember that as a very nice block and the proximity to the park (and the ice cone guy) and new Children's Museum must be a good thing.
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 1:46 PM
The Cobble Hill place is cashing in on the buyer fever in that neighborhood. That place on Warren is a fricken DUMP.
We'll see...just how many Euros is 1.6 million dollars?
Posted by: Prodigal_Son at September 12, 2008 1:51 PM
Biff, you are correct. Children's Museum is a block away. they are getting ready for their grand re-opening on Sept 20. And this particular block is gorgeous.
Please come to the Crown Heights North house tour on Oct 4th. One of the houses that will be on the tour is on this block, coincidentally.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 12, 2008 1:58 PM
I'm usually at odds with those who say Victorian Flatbush houses are ridiculously overpriced. However, in this case, it's true. This house needs to be completely rebuilt and updated, no to mention the fact that it backs on to the railroad tracks. It isn't huge (plus or minus, depending on the buyer. It does have a small amount of salvageable detail and it is a stone's throw from PPS. I think $550k would be a more realistic price.
Posted by: Architerrorist at September 12, 2008 2:08 PM
Montrose, how long a walk is it from there to the BBG and Prospect Park?
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 2:09 PM
Yeah, the place on Warren needs EVERYTHING!
Posted by: ilikeslices at September 12, 2008 2:22 PM
Any guesses on what the rather narrow Berkeley place will fetch?
Posted by: FatLenny at September 12, 2008 2:23 PM
FatLenny, I really don't see Berkeley Place's price being too far off. I would be very surprised to see it go for less than $1.85MM (feel free to quote me in the Open House Six Months Later thread in March 2009). :-)
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 2:31 PM
Was the Crown Heights building originally intended to be a single-family dwelling?
There is something about it that just screams "apartment building" to me, and it isn't just the fact it has been gutted into a 3-flat.
Assuming $1,800 a month in rent and 20% expenses, it seems overpriced by at least $200,000.
Posted by: Polemicist at September 12, 2008 2:40 PM
Biff-
Let's say 15-20 minutes to BBG and another 5-10 to the park depending on how quickly you walk. I do it on a regular basis w/ a neighbor who says its about 3 miles although it feels a lot shorter than that.
Polemicist-
It was originally built as a single family. You need to see it in person, the exterior photos don't really do it justice.
Posted by: LC Arnett at September 12, 2008 3:24 PM
Agree this is a good range of hoods and prices somewhat realistic in a New York sort of way except for the Cobble Hill POS property.
The Crown Heights place reminds me of Alsace France I mean an absolute beauty. Infact that roof gives it that cool castle look that is simply marvelous but does anyone know the Architect? Amzi Hill? MM?
Also is that limestone? Keep us posted MM and thanks a lot.
Posted by: pierre de taille at September 12, 2008 3:39 PM
I'm happy to quote you, Biff, just not you-know-who.
The Berkeley place is similar to mine. It's in a better location but I've just suffered through kitchen and bath renovations. Similar square footage but it's awfully narrow. I'm hoping for a good number.
Posted by: FatLenny at September 12, 2008 3:44 PM
I looked at a beautiful limestone on that CH block for $1.2 Mill back in 2005. It was the first time I had ventured over there and I couldn't believe how beautiful the housing stock is.
I think CH has a bright future since the houses are so beautiful but I'd probably be under water if I had bought back then. $1.2 Mill in CH is now looking very high.
Posted by: FatLenny at September 12, 2008 3:49 PM
FatLenny, good one!
LC Arnett, thanks for your answer. If it's approx. 25 mins to Prospect Park, I would guess, without mapquesting it, it would be less than 3 miles. I think a 25 min. walk would be between one and two miles, going at an average pace.
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 12, 2008 4:00 PM
Funny, the Cobble Hill house is the most interesting to me, not the least. I don't claim to know this specific block but it appears to be a great location and prices in this nabe generally start at $2m and go on up from there. If you're not looking to flip it and can afford an $800k to $1m reno, this could be very sweet down the road. Our house looked way worse than this when we bought in '99 and our friends thought we were nuts. Not anymore they don't.
Posted by: NeoGrec at September 12, 2008 4:38 PM
NeoGrec-
That Warren place is awful.
For 1.6? No way.
This should be a mil -max-. It needs a gut reno.
Posted by: Prodigal_Son at September 12, 2008 4:47 PM
Prodigal, If there's no upside here how come Corco has 4 houses in Cobble Hill listed as follows: $2.295m, $2.295m, $2.75m and $3.995m? Just askin'.
Posted by: NeoGrec at September 12, 2008 4:55 PM
Pierre, when the LPC did their initial survey of Crown Heights North in 1976, this block was part of the proposed land marked area. By 2007, the area to be designated was deemed too large for one fell swoop, so CHN was divided into 4 phases. This block is in phase II. Ironically, almost all of the local people who founded the Crown Heights North Association, which got the ball rolling, ended up in Phase II, which has some truly magnificent architecture. The other phases are now on LPC's long waiting list. Hopefully soon, it will be landmarked.
All that to say I don't know who the architect is. It could very well be Montrose Morris, or George P. Chappell, J.C. Cady, Axel Hedmen, or a number of other prominant Bklyn architects who did a lot of work in brownstone Brooklyn. Maybe I'll find out at the open house. I certainly will post a report on the open house, in any case. I'm looking forward to seeing another potential dream house.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 12, 2008 5:08 PM
Neogrec-
Corco is one of the higher priced houses, thats why. And their stock is WAY better than this dump on Warren Street.
Even Corcoran wouldn't price this dump higher than 1.2 at the -highest-.
Posted by: Prodigal_Son at September 12, 2008 6:09 PM
Thanks MM I wish I could make that open house also but have to work on Sunday:( lol
Thanks again.
Posted by: pierre de taille at September 12, 2008 9:29 PM
How much are rents in Crown Heights?
Posted by: Ozymandius at September 12, 2008 10:38 PM
put $500 into the cobble hill home and it'll worth double in no time. that is a great great location.
Posted by: wine lover at September 12, 2008 11:12 PM
Hats off to TheWhat for warning us about the upcoming financial and housing crisis a year ago. Looks like this weekend is going to be a Bear Stearns redux, where we are all going to be sitting around our computer on sunday night to find out who the buyer of lehman is going to be. This time is going to be a lot uglier, for the shareholders, bondholders and employees of lehman because of the unwillingness of the fed and treasury dept to backstop any deal. Leh's stock price is down 95% from the feb 2007 and their employees have lost more than $10 bill collectively. The wealth destruction we have witnessed is just horrific. We are not going to see the end to this crisis until two to three other financial institutions/investment banks/commercial banks follow suit. The run up in NYC real estate prices in the past 10 years has largely been due to the paper wealth created by investment banks and the economic stimulation that trickled down to other industries (legal, accounting, corporate events, etc) The reversal is starting with the destruction of all these institutions.
Posted by: dandel at September 13, 2008 11:52 AM
I think that Cobble Hill house could be a nice buy. It may not need a gut reno, just a lot of paint stripping. Can't tell from the photos what the walls are like.
Obviously new kitchen and baths, but it's possible that 200k could go a really long way. And that location is about as good as it gets IMO. I'd be shocked if it didn't go for close to ask. You just don't see a lot of unrenovated single family homes around there.
Posted by: Bolder at September 14, 2008 10:36 AM
The Cobble Hill house needs everything! There is really no existing plumbing ( I have no idea how people even lived in there!) It needs all new electric, stairs, beams, everything.
Posted by: ilikeslices at September 14, 2008 1:14 PM
I saw the Crown Heights house. I was somewhat disappointed, but it still has great potential. With the exception of the entry hallway, and scattered detail, mostly on the parlor floor, there is not much detail left in what was a finely appointed house. For a 30' house, it felt very enclosed, and that is because each floor has been cut up into a warren of rooms, with bathrooms and closets in places that would have originally been opened up. There are two bathrooms on each floor. Some of the ceilings have been dropped, and/or are covered with acoustic tiles.
The house has not been upgraded since Ike was president. It needs a complete electrical and plumbing overhaul. It is a legal 4 family, but the 4th apt is in the English basement. We could not get in there, because of the tenant. There is a fire escape on the unattached side of the building.
Positively, it is a lot of house, and with some good planning, and a big pile o money, it could be a showplace. The rooms are large and airy, even on the top floor. All of the floors have an outdoor space in the form of either a side porch,which look original, or a roof deck. They are all a decent size, and could be quite nice. I would tear down some walls and open the place up, even in a rental unit. As it is now, you don't get the use of the width of the building, which is one of the best things about it.
The exterior is is excellent shape. The backyard is quite large, even with the garage, which is a keeper, with room for one car and a side door which I presume leads to a small storage area. The brick garage has decorative carved keystones. It doesn't look as if anyone's been in there in years.
The house next door is a huge, freestanding brick Arts and Crafts chalet, and the houses behind it on St. Marks are also free standing with large backyards, so the sense of space and roominess is really nice.
Long story long, if I could, I'd pay under a million, would sink another $700K into it, and be happy for the long haul. Because this is one of the gems of a really beautiful block that will certainly appreciate in time. I can see this place again being a beauty, both inside and out.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 14, 2008 5:16 PM
"The run up in NYC real estate prices in the past 10 years has largely been due to the paper wealth created by investment banks and the economic stimulation that trickled down to other industries (legal, accounting, corporate events, etc) The reversal is starting with the destruction of all these institutions." - dandel at September 13, 2008 11:52 AM
PAPER wealth. Preach!
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at September 14, 2008 6:15 PM
Montrose, thanks for the follow-up and detailed thoughts on the home. It's one thing to see it here and discuss it without first-hand viewing, but your insight makes it much more interesting. I guess you won't be relocating to it after all!
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 15, 2008 8:07 AM
Biff, right now, I'm just thankful I can pay my mortgage on the home I have. It's fun to engage in fantasy homebuying and renovating. It costs nothing. I would love to be able to buy my ultimate brownstone, I have it picked out, and someday, who knows? I enjoy looking, and I actually learn more about architecture, construction and renovation in each house, as each place has its own set of positives and negatives. That will help me with my current place, and any other I may someday have.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 15, 2008 10:30 AM
I think that contractors are hungry now and for 350K (including architect and fixtures) you could fix up the Cobble Hill house pretty nicely - new pipes, electric, paint, appliances...etc. The 350 is approx what my renovation of a similar property is going to cost, all in. So I am not making this number up from thin air. My property cost less to start with and I couldn't have bought this one...but even with the Lehman news, there are plenty in NYC who can. So I think it'll be a nice move for whoever does and is ultimately sitting on a full brownstone in a great CH block for uder 2MM.
Posted by: Colonel at September 15, 2008 11:36 AM

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