More Troubles with Teens

I don't know what good it does to have a running litany of these stories. It just reinforces negative stereotypes, and unfairly makes it look like the majority of kids out there are predators. That is just not the case. The good kids far outweigh the bad.

For those who have become little hoodlums, what do we expect? Frankly, far too many parents have left the care of their children to others - the schools, their kids' peers, or a computer or gaming screen. Respect is not taught, not respect for others, property, authority, or respect for themselves. There are no consequences for anything, until the cuffs go on, and then regret. Not for the deed, but for getting caught. This is across the board - across racial and economic lines.

I know I sound like my grandmother, but it really does all come down to "how you was raised up". I find snotty rich kids to be as rude and uncaring as attitudinal poor kids. I don't know what can be done, because I think it means a national return to "values", and that has become a right wing, political hot button that has lost all of its real meaning. But the only way people truly change is inside. We all need to re-learn how to care about people. All else will follow.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 16, 2008 10:27 AM

I disagree, I find that on a blog like this, story after story of youth violence has no point other than to toss gas on the fire, igniting class and race issues that go nowhere but downhill. If all anyone can take from my post is that I don't approve of snotty rich kids, then you've totally missed my point.

I also am realistic enough to know that "learning how to care" sounds airy fairy and useless. Of course we need deterrence, punishment, and prevention. But how about changing hearts and minds so that less people need to be punished? I don't claim to know how to effectively do that, but that part of the plan certainly needs to be addressed, not just simply dismissed.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 16, 2008 11:25 AM

Sorry, guys, but race and class intrude upon almost every discussion about life in Brooklyn. We don't engage in discussing afterschool, or teen violence in Brownsville, East New York, or even Bensonhurst, because it's expected, no big deal, and doesn't affect us. Sad, but true.

It's only when it spills into "good" neighborhoods, or areas that are gentrifying, that it ends up here, and becomes a hot topic. I'm not saying it shouldn't be discussed, but only that it must be discussed because that behavior is not acceptable anywhere.

Afterschool programs, Big Brother/Sister, Boys/Girlstown, church programs, mentoring programs, whatever is needed to help not just the kids wandering aroung Clinton Hill, or after school in Park Slope, but all kids who need it, are paramount. All kids, no matter who they are, need guidance and direction.

We need to be just as outraged and saddened at the news that a kid gets stabbed on Mother Gaston Blvd, as we are a kid in Park Slope. Face it, we are not. Race and class will be obsolete and irrelevent only when we really all are equal in society's eyes, and sadly, that day is nowhere in sight.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 16, 2008 12:08 PM

I disagree, "snotty rich kids" was one very small phrase in one post I made, and was not the point of my post either, other than to include their behavior in a list of unacceptable behaviors. You have made that the sole basis of several posts denigrating my opinions, and now those of bxgrl. Get over it.

Your constant harping on "snotty rich kids" can only lead me to conclude that you were one, or have one. If that offends you, then perhaps you need to look at your own class issues.

And while we are at it, very vaguely mentioning a case, long after it is in the public and court record, with no details, whatsoever, is hardly breaking client confidences. You'd have a better case against Law and Order's writers than bxgrl's attorney friend.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 16, 2008 12:43 PM

I disagree, once again you take my words out of context. I no more get my legal information from Law and Order than you do, or brxgrl, for that matter. I am more than willing to have a substantive debate about this or any other issue, but not with someone who deliberately obfuscates by making throw away phrases like "snotty rich kids", or a mention of a tv show seem to be the meat of my argument. I take that as personally as you take being called names.

The fact remains that people like PropJoe may be mindless idiots, and here I will call names, but his statement is probably closer to what many think, than not. Please note, I did not accuse you of same. Ceolaf had a lot of good points, and I do not think that explaining why people do what they do is the same as condoning or excusing it. Pig three also make good points.

It all goes back to my original statement that there is no respect for anything in many of our kids, not for themselves, others, property, or authority. I do not see that as a racial or class thing, but a societal ill. However, when we hear of incidents of violence, our mindseye is not colorblind, or class blind, and we make racial and socio-economic assumptions about who is doing what, without any facts. We do ourselves a dishonesty to not admit that, because we all do it. I think an honest look of race and class in this country is beyond where we are now. Not just because of real racism, but because we all, and I do mean all, have a really hard time admitting that we all have preconceptions and prejudices.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 16, 2008 4:21 PM

Miss priss, since when has any subject on this blog stayed totally on topic? Everyone is free to digress where they will, and usually does, so please stop acting as if I invented it.

Bringing up the issues of race and class is hardly race baiting. Oddly, that term seems to only come up when the issue is danced around and never addressed, and someone shines a light on it. You don't want to talk about it? Fine. You have no idea what real race baiting is.

And how am I being the thought police? Everyone thinks whatever they want about these or any other situation. The narrow thinking you are accusing me of is yours. I would welcome a genuine discussion of youth violence, or tensions between Park Slopers and the kids who go to the local schools. But that would mean a real discussion of race and class in Brooklyn. And I don't think very many of us are comfortable with that.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 16, 2008 6:17 PM

Z, I said that initial remark because I think sometimes topics on Brownstoner are chosen because they will be hot button issues, and anything regarding crime, violence, and rampaging kids is bound to gets the keyboards humming and will eventually bring up issues of race and class. Would we have even half the comments here if this was a report about 2 kids getting in a fight in a Brownsville school? Even if one had gotten killed? I don't think so. I didn't want to go there this morning. And I freely admit that if I am at the computer that day, I will probably jump in feet first, and I ended up doing that.

I don't expect people to necessarily agree with me. Most may not, and I don't post so people can nod their heads in agreement with my great wisdom. I'm just another anonymous voice trying to connect with my fellow Brooklynites. I call em as I see em, like everyone else.

I happen to think that, like the great writer W.E.B. DuBois said almost 100 years ago, that "the problem of the 20th (now 21st) century is the problem of the color-line". I would now expand that to include class. That doesn't make everything and every situation racial, and certainly does not make everyone a racist, but race and class are always there somewhere, and we are better off realizing that, and dealing with our own preconceived notions and assumptions, and how those notions affect our own actions, than acting like we didn't notice at all. That is not complementary to our liberal and fair minded view of ourselves, and saying this does not make me popular. I can deal with that.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 17, 2008 12:12 AM