« Condos of the Day: 470 Washington Avenue Development Watch: 163 Washington Avenue Rising »
September 23, 2008
House of the Day: 304 Union Street
Today's House of the Day at 304 Union Street in Carroll Gardens is particularly interesting in light of yesterday's discussion about declining prices. We had it as an Open House Pick in November 2005 when it was listed for $1,850,000; it ultimately sold for $1,700,000 in May 2006, and the new owner clearly went to town on the renovation. It's charmingly done (love those slightly rough original floorboards in the parlor) but the big question is whether it merits the marked-up price of $4,150,000.
304 Union Street [Stribling] GMAP P*Shark
Open House Picks 11/4/2005 [Brownstoner]
Trackback Pings
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/6362
Comments
Let the savaging begin...
Posted by: SnarkSlope at September 23, 2008 1:23 PM
yes savaging is in order. How can these people think that in this climate this is a justifiable asking price?
Posted by: wasder at September 23, 2008 1:25 PM
That asking price seems incredible to me. Is there any comparables for this place nearby?
Posted by: newsouthsloper at September 23, 2008 1:25 PM
the craziness of this ask has nothing to do with declining prices. even at the market's most bullish peak this price would have been way too high.
Posted by: z at September 23, 2008 1:30 PM
Certainly the house is quite lovely.
And I imagine that some people might still be able to afford it.
The one thing that seems weird to me is the master bathtub being in a walk-in closet.
Posted by: bkheightscoop at September 23, 2008 1:31 PM
YIKES!! That's alot. No pics of the kitchen, they must have used GE appliances :)
Posted by: bayridgegirl at September 23, 2008 1:32 PM
I'll take 'high on crack' for four million, please, Alex.
Savage enough?
Posted by: deadnancy at September 23, 2008 1:33 PM
First of all, that bath with the shower curtain around a clawfoot tub in a $4MM + property is a deal-killer. Thats not a renovation.
Any brownstone above $2MM should have a giant ensuite master bath...mine does and it's not even worth half that price. Kitchen photos????
$1,250 psf...well its better than that ridiculous carriage house last week at $1,500 psf!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 1:34 PM
Between Court and Smith? With the largest HVAC ductwork in Bklyn? Mere steps from Marco Polo? Right on a noisy bus route?
Listing this week? Yeah, this makes sense.
Posted by: buttermilk channel at September 23, 2008 1:35 PM
Nice house. I love the wide plank floors, too. Don't like the soffitts in the bedrooms for the A/C, though.
Price is astronomical.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 23, 2008 1:36 PM
Literally 20-25% overpriced, especially with that crappy bathtub and sink. will go for 3.2 IF the seller hits the lottery
Posted by: bktycoon at September 23, 2008 1:37 PM
Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that between May 06 and May 07, they would have seen a 10% rise in prices. So that;s 1.87 mil. After May 07, it was pretty clear that prices were not going to rise.
So to justify this price, they would have had to spend 2.2 million on the renovation. Actually, since in my estimate, prices are now back to 06 levels, they would have had to spend 2.4 million on the reno.
I'm actually pretty bullish on move-in condition townhouses, but this is beyond the pale. They'll be lucky to break even on the reno, which could not possibly have cost more than $1 million and most likely much less.
Nice place, though.
Posted by: Bolder at September 23, 2008 1:42 PM
bolder - i think this reno could have cost $1mm, depending on what the kitchen and other baths look like. but that they didn't include them in the photos suggests that you're right. either way, it still doesn't justify the price, which is nutso.
Posted by: i disagree at September 23, 2008 1:47 PM
Definately not a 2.2 reno but it is a nice looking place other than the ductwork. Isn't there a better way?
I am confused by the dissent on the bathroom, ever heard of charm? "ensuite master bath" sounds tacky to me. Does that come with jets?
Posted by: offthegrid at September 23, 2008 1:50 PM
I sent this listing to my boss and she is going to set up an appointment to look at the property this week. She is very interested. She said compared to what she's looked at on the UWS, this house is half the price.
Posted by: 11217 at September 23, 2008 1:52 PM
really beautiful house - and daveinbedstuy - many people LOVE a clawfoot tub - esp since it's the children's bathroom and so ok to be cutesy. Bathtub in w/i closet I think it's following the trend of bathrooms in the bedroom - just was at an extraordinary penthouse in manhattan that had a rooftop guestsuite with bathtub next to the bed. but price is CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what is it with CG pricing? I just don't understand - and I live there.
Posted by: gkw at September 23, 2008 1:55 PM
11217 - maybe I'm thick, but are you officially now entering the realm of sarcasm and thus we can disregard your market-defending comments as a joke?
Posted by: Miss Muffett at September 23, 2008 1:55 PM
11217....it is half the price of an UWS townhouse. That doesn't mean it isn't way overpriced for the neighborhood and the renovation. Which i think it is.
I'm obsessed with the shower curtain thing and I'll bring it up again. No one with anywhere near that amount of money should have to deal with a plastic shower curtain around an old tub!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 1:56 PM
Remember, $4,150,000 is only 2,816,040 Euros.
I say a foreigner buys it.
I hear more French in Brooklyn than any other language, except English.
Posted by: Prodigal_Son at September 23, 2008 1:57 PM
11217--keep rocking the optimism. somebody's got to do it. I support you and will do my best to back you up.
Posted by: wasder at September 23, 2008 1:57 PM
daveinbedstuy - I don't think you are familiar with different kinds of taste then. You will certainly find in many multi-million dollar homes - particularly country homes - clawfoot tubs. This is going for a country charm aesthetic, hence the tub.
Posted by: gkw at September 23, 2008 2:01 PM
11217- sure is 1/2 the price of a comp in the uWS.
And a 17th the price of a seaside condo in Cannes.
Still overpriced.
Posted by: Prodigal_Son at September 23, 2008 2:01 PM
I was not joking about the boss. Nor the arts. As I mentioned, she bought her place (3 bedroom on UWS) for 200K, 20 years ago (now worth probably 3 million) and ever since I moved to PS, she's been really into the idea of finding a brownstone in Brooklyn.
She likes the look of this one, although I did tell her that it was incredible amount for the neighborhood.
She's a great negotiator and a savvy businesswoman. If she wants it, she'll get it done for the price she wants to pay.
If it comes through, the broker should split the commission with me.
Posted by: 11217 at September 23, 2008 2:06 PM
gkw...yes...they are charming...and nice for soaking but only in conjunction with a nice marble and glass enclosed shower. They are rarely the only means of showering in a multi-million dollar home.
Country charm is great for your country house in Bucks County or along the Hudson.
It's not a selling point in this renovation.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 2:07 PM
Oh and I love the tub (and the curtain) and have no interest in a glass or fancy shower enclosure.
These are brownstones. The tub is part of the charm!!!
Posted by: 11217 at September 23, 2008 2:09 PM
ok, well it's brick, but same sentiment...
Posted by: 11217 at September 23, 2008 2:10 PM
On the bathroom thing again...the floorplans DO show a bath with a shower stall on the third floor off of the master bedroom. Additionally, and quite odd, is a walk-in closet with a bathtub!!!!!
Also, from the floorplans, the kitchen does look quite large (with bookshelves???!!!) and a somewhat poorly designed access to the deck. And there is a powder room on the parlour floor.
So, if we add them up, there's one full bath (with the hated showercurtain clawfoot tub, one 3/4 bath off the master suite, one walk-in closet with a tub and one powder room in the owner's triplex.
I gotta see this closet with the tub!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 2:14 PM
My issue is not with the tub but the plastic shower curtain. They should have at least removed that for the photo, right?
Posted by: TownhouseLady at September 23, 2008 2:15 PM
You can buy a nice white fabric shower curtain for 40 bucks from Restoration Hardware.
Done and done.
Posted by: 11217 at September 23, 2008 2:17 PM
It's on Union Street, the 71 Bus goes right by your front door. You can't open your windows, the soot will be gross. It's on the other side of Smith Street, the duct work is just weird for the price, and says to me - what else did they do on the cheap? The overall look is mainly good, but I have a feeling when you get up close it's not so nice.
Posted by: cobblehiller at September 23, 2008 2:18 PM
$4MM house with a $40 shower curtain. You just made my point 11217.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 2:19 PM
for $4 million i'd like my central air ducting concealed in walls and floors, not visible in ugly soffits, thanks.
Posted by: janelle at September 23, 2008 2:22 PM
I'm actually liking that bathroom with the clawfoot tub more and more since I've seen that the master bedroom has a shower in it.
That double sink is period and looks to be a real find with the double gooseneck faucets.
Comments on the walk-in closet tub??? Surely they could have designed that bathroom on the third floor a lot better and incorporated the tub and the shower in the same room whether it be en-suite or not.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 2:23 PM
Agree with you on that too janelle
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 2:24 PM
Good point DIBS the layout of the closet bath is really bizare. I guess they were trying (and failing) to work around existing plumbing in the wall between that and the bathroom.
I suspect the "bookshelves" are pantry shelving for glasses/dinnerware appliances etc. The person putting together the floor plan probably just didn't know how to properly identify them. At least this is what I'm hoping. If they really are just bookshelves- boo hiss!
Do we have an HVAC specialist in the house? Why wouldn't/didn't they put these in up in the ceiling rafters? The duct work really bothers me.
Here we go again with no closets in the bedrooms (top floor)!
Seriously, for this price it should be IMPECCABLE! I shouldn't have to re-work or change a thing (unless I just don't like a fixture or color something simple. I don't want to have to add closets etc. If I did I'd buy a clunker and fix it up myself.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at September 23, 2008 2:27 PM
For that price they did a shoddy job with the design. They clearly left all the plumbing in place and just worked around what was there, which is why, i would think, they landed up sticking a bath in the closet. thats fine if you are doing a $55psf renovation but if you are going to go pricing something way at the high end of the market for a given area the least you can do is think about how its going to be laid out. plus, the photos show almost none of the consequential rooms, the ones where money was spent, which does not bode well for their quality.
Posted by: 11216 at September 23, 2008 2:28 PM
Oddly, I hadn't noticed the A/C soffets. Perhaps this wasn't a gut reno, but one that involved a lot of drywall and skim coating...
Posted by: Bolder at September 23, 2008 2:30 PM
and no mention of the lack of TOTO toilets.
Posted by: Prodigal_Son at September 23, 2008 2:32 PM
PS you judge too quickly. We don't know that they are not TOTO toilets.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 2:35 PM
11217, is j-lo your boss?
Posted by: slick at September 23, 2008 2:39 PM
That's insane. There are some similar buildings that have gone for over 3 million but on much more charming and quiet blocks. Has anything sold for over 4 million in Carroll Gardens of comparable size?
Posted by: Carol Gardens at September 23, 2008 2:40 PM
Claw foot tubs for soaking are actually a sought after amenity, so long as there is a separate shower as well (at least one shower per bedroom floor). Not a fan of showering in a clawfoot tub though.
Posted by: 1842 at September 23, 2008 2:40 PM
At this price, they better be Toto Washlets that spray Cristal.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at September 23, 2008 2:40 PM
Slick - not unless J-lo has transformed herself into a middle aged jewish woman...
Posted by: 11217 at September 23, 2008 2:43 PM
No, the buildings that have sold for 4 were bigger and on nicer blocks, and we more finely and fully renovated. This price is out of whack - greed.
Posted by: cobblehiller at September 23, 2008 2:45 PM
Stribling's web site is terrible. Five interior photos tells a potential buyer nothing about the place. However, the Euro converter is handy (!)
HVAC work looks slapdash and completely out of place. And Union is a thoroughfare for the nabe: It's got a bus route and it's the route many, many drivers take on the way home from Fairway and Ikea. The price is completely ridiculous.
Posted by: Fjorder at September 23, 2008 2:47 PM
Good one Snark!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at September 23, 2008 2:51 PM
11217.. gues then it's Madonna by that description!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 2:51 PM
11217 - your boss got very lucky on her last purchase. now she is about to make a big mistake in the opposite direction. tell her to sell the 3br and sit on the cash for at least two more years. this house will be 2.7 by then with still no takers. then she can be as "savvy" as she wants. she should really get a financial adviser first. and she needs a good shaking if she thinks this house is a good deal.
Posted by: jingle mail at September 23, 2008 2:53 PM
jingle...a financial adviser can no better call the top or bottom of a real estate market than can anyone here on brownstoner. Trying to guess that is a fool's game and irrelevant for someone looking for a home to live in for the next 5-10 years.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 3:00 PM
yeah, dave. wall street in a total shambles. tons of jobs dropping, banks halting lending. multiplier effect. we must be at the bottom. easy money and tons of high paying jobs are right around the corner. good luck with that. my point was that this person needs a reality check if she thinks a house priced way above peak 07 comps is a good deal. i won't call the bottom if you don't...
This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. It is, however, the end of the beginning.
Churchill
Posted by: jingle mail at September 23, 2008 3:06 PM
Thanks, TownhouseLady. I aim to please. As does the Toto Washlet...
Posted by: SnarkSlope at September 23, 2008 3:10 PM
Very nicely done. I see this selling not sure of price.
Posted by: sebb at September 23, 2008 3:15 PM
I think we all agree that this house is way overpriced. That, in and of itself, has nothing to do though with what I thought was the advice that you were givig which was to stay out of the market for at least two years.
Selling a place, moving everything into an apartment that you may or may not like and most probably will be below your current standard of living, looking around for another place and then moving again in a year or so is a lot of bothersome crap that alot of people don't want to deal with. I could have sold my Manhattan condo and done the same thing. I bought in May 07, at the "so called" top and am very happy about it because I got pretty much excatly what I wanted.
It was the "trying to time the market" talk that I really had the issue with.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 3:15 PM
My sister in law had a bathroom you had to walk thru to get to the closet in a hideous McMansion she had built to her specs in Virginia. I never could figure it out.
I have seen similar wierd floorplans in bloated suburban nightmares on those cable shows about buying new houses, where they compare a few and pick one to move into. I think it's a suburban dream?
A dream might be only way to explain that pepto bismol pink and kleenex violet color choice, which even in a kids room is lamentable.
Posted by: Stonergut at September 23, 2008 3:18 PM
The negative renters are ranting again. Does this ever stop?
Posted by: sebb at September 23, 2008 3:21 PM
I had suspected that sebb but didn't want to introduce it into the discussion.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 3:22 PM
Price = Greed + stupidity: exactly what got us into this mess in the first place.
Posted by: johnife at September 23, 2008 3:23 PM
No No Johnife. What put us into this situation was the Greedy Southerners who took out Mortgages and failed to read the Closing documents. Then they convinced themselves that the price of the Home/Investment they bought would always go up. See the Southern states and many states across the USA have Zero regulations, they have no advocate groups like NYC. Florida actually had MURDERERS and BANK ROBBERS Selling Mortgages to Greddy Buyers. Please check the link and read for yourself. http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/mortgage/
Posted by: sebb at September 23, 2008 3:33 PM
i think there is little to no doubt that the trend from here is downward, dave. if you are ok with leaving potentially 15-30% on the table in exchange for not having to time the market (which you did), that is a personal preference. i would rather live with the "indignity" of an apartment below my standards than to pi$$ away real money in a falling market. houses aren't stocks - they move way slower, so timing the bottom isn't as important as calling the direction (i have very high conviction that direction is significantly down). but if this cycle lives up to its early warnings, 5-10 years may not even be long enough to break even. see japan real estate since the early 90s.
Posted by: jingle mail at September 23, 2008 3:34 PM
First of all, I never said me (or my boss) said it was a good deal. I said she was interested. Some people buy because they want to, and not for investment purposes. She said people thought she was NUTS when she bought her current place for the price she paid back then. The UWS at that time (in her area) was NOT a nice neighborhood, from what she and others describe.
And with two small children, I don't think she plans to sell, sit on the money and rent for 2 years. She wants a large home in the city in which to raise and enjoy her family.
She's looking for a home in which to live out much of the rest of her years. And wants to stay in NYC.
You will all be crying in your soup in 20 years when she sells for 10 million and retires in Tuscany.
(as will I, no doubt)
Posted by: 11217 at September 23, 2008 3:37 PM
Yeah...Japan as a model. Do you know what year they put together their RTC equivalent after the market peaked in 1990?? They got around to it in 2002. And the banks got their act together by early 2003. And the market, after being down significantly for those 13 years then moved significantly.
I'm not predicting any kind of an upward move in the market but at least get the facts straight.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 3:42 PM
How many People in NYC claimed they were making $300k working at MET foods as a cashier to qualify for a mortgage? None Zero. But guess what in FLORIDA cashiers working at Publix Supermarket did Claim they made $300k. That is the difference from the NYC housing market and the rest of the country. Will NYC prices drop? Maybe a bit but not like the rest of the country. Buyers do not let these Renters scare you. If you want a Home to live in Go out and buy. If you are looking to profit in 1 year than look for another way to make money.
More On Three Facing Federal Charges In Alleged Palm Beach County Flipping Scam
In Palm Beach County, Florida The Palm Beach Post reports on the criminal allegations facing Berry Louidort and Ralph Michel (also known as Ralph Duverneau), who are accused of putting together deals for two dozen homes in Palm Beach County, persuading banks to loan far more than the properties actually sold for, then pocketing the difference and letting many of the homes lapse into foreclosure; and Boca Raton mortgage broker Lauren Jasky who is accused of helping Louidort and Michel arrange the deals.
There's Michel - a native of Haiti who, according to his attorney, can't read or write well enough to pass a U.S. citizenship test - collecting "assignment fees" of $650,000 and $600,000 on side-by-side homes in the Versailles development in Wellington.
There's Louidort, also a native of Haiti, describing a scheme to buy 50 condos in Boynton Beach while stealing $4 million from lenders. He thinks he's talking to a willing accomplice. In fact, he's laying out the plot to an undercover FBI agent who captures the conversation on videotape.
There are straw buyers, such as the part-time Publix cashier whose income on loan applications was inflated from $13,000 to $344,000 so she could qualify for $1.3 million in loans on a palatial home in a gated community in Boca Raton.
There's Jasky saying she doesn't want to know the unsavory details of the loans she's shopping to lenders. Meanwhile, her mother is acting as the Realtor on some of the deals.
Posted by: sebb at September 23, 2008 3:43 PM
Sebb,
Oh, believe me, I'm not limiting my greed and stupidity characterization to just the sellers; there's more than enough of those traits in every demographic that played a part in this "I-want-it-and-I-want-it-now" - fueled debacle.
Posted by: johnife at September 23, 2008 3:45 PM
11217...in your stated timeframe of 20 years you will no doubt be correct. We are even likely to go through another cycle or two between now and then. But a lot of people here apparently can't think long term.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 3:45 PM
Isnt that mini-Martha Stewart Katie Brown's house?
Posted by: bklyn11231 at September 23, 2008 3:47 PM
$4,000,000,000 and there aren't even any mantles! (Think Joan Kusack in Working Girl.)
Posted by: Susan Elkins at September 23, 2008 4:10 PM
as someone who looked at about 70 houses in this area about 12 years ago or so, it's clear to me that some negatives that struck me then (when this place was probably around $550k or less even), are still negatives now. In this case, it's location. while convenient, it's not exactly ideal. of course, that's not a deal killer unless you want over $4 million for it.
not a great space either.
Posted by: wine lover at September 23, 2008 4:11 PM
dave, rtc is merely going to postpone losses (as it did in japan). plus the banks will participate in 125% of those losses when they are realized. that will do nothing to alleviate the downward pressure from the loss of many thousands of high paying jobs combined with the end of easy money. i know people who bought a house in yokohama in 1999. at that time, there were condos selling nearby for $1mn. those same condos are on the market today for $400k. sure, japan has different demographics, but their bubble popped 20 years ago and they are STILL seeing nominal declines even today. talk about not looking at the long term. if you believe in mean reversion, look at 20 year median price trends. then think about where we should be. i'm sorry you bought at the top. i really hope you are right about 5-10 years, but don't be surprised if you are wrong...
Posted by: jingle mail at September 23, 2008 4:12 PM
RTC will not be structured as it was in Japan. Not going to debate that with you anymore. You're introducing too many irrelevant comparisons into the discussion. Yokohama...for god's sake. Comparing that to Tokyo is like comparing Buffalo, NY to NYC.
Don't be sorry...like I said "I bought at the top and am very happy about it because I pretty much got exactly what I wanted" You read something else into that.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 4:20 PM
one bedrooms in the heart of Tokyo sell for approximately 1 million US dollars in today's market.
Posted by: 11217 at September 23, 2008 4:30 PM
you won't debate the rtc because you don't know what you're talking about. and yokohama is more like jersey city (or brooklyn?) to nyc (check a map). and if you are so happy, why do you have to convince people to make the same mistake you made? right dave, let's not discuss this anymore. you have nothing to say.
Posted by: jingle mail at September 23, 2008 4:32 PM
I guess you have all the answers!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 4:43 PM
And, BTW, real estate is never a mistake if you've financed it rationally and it's going to be your home for 5-10 years. Don't be so bitter!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 4:47 PM
It would have been cool if they put the master bedroom in the back and built a terrace off of it on top of the kitchen.
There is plenty of room in that bathroom to do a tub and a shower, it's just poorly laid out.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at September 23, 2008 4:52 PM
bayridgegirl...yes, good point. That would have been really nice but, as someone pointed out above, they were trying to save money by not moving the bathrooms from the original vent and soil stack. An additional stack would be quite expensive.
This 4 storey would require cast iron and not PVC I believe.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 4:57 PM
I'm not usually a huge stickler, but the soffets are a travesty. I thought I hated the vent holes of my mini duct system, but now I'm not feeling so bad (and I certainly didn't pay $4 mil, har har).
Posted by: slopefarm at September 23, 2008 5:05 PM
slopefarm...i'm interested in doing a mini duct, hi velocity system. Would you tell us who installed it and whether you were pleased with it? Thanks
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 5:07 PM
I love how, after every one of the What's predictions comes true, there is still some twat happy to come on here and cry "Bitter renter!" Extraordinary.
Paulson just got savaged by Congress; so DIBS, I wouldn't bank on your Congressional bailout just yet.
The most sober guesstimate yet of what we're in for:
At this juncture, the book is still open on the how the current dislocations in the United States will play out. The precedent found in the aftermath of other episodes suggests that the strains can be quite severe, depending especially on the initial degree of trauma to the financial system (and to some extent, the policy response). The average drop in (real per capita) output growth is over 2 percent, and it typically takes two years to return to trend. For the five most catastrophic cases (which include episodes in Finland, Japan, Norway, Spain and Sweden), the drop in annual output growth from peak to trough is over 5 percent, and growth remained well below pre-crisis trend even after three years.
Me again: I hope some horse's ass buys this place, I really do. But you all still have your head in a bygone era. I'll come by and visit again on the next big leg down. You are about to learn a very, very painful lesson in macro economics.
Posted by: Whuh at September 23, 2008 5:12 PM
***I love how, after every one of the What's predictions comes true, there is still some twat happy to come on here and cry "Bitter renter!"
Way out of left field. what does what have to do with anything on this thread?
***I'll come by and visit again
Please don't.
Posted by: wasder at September 23, 2008 5:16 PM
WOW...I guess the What is back!!! Back with the old "cut & paste" I see.
As for your predictions coming true I wouldn't call this current situation the big crash as you predicted. But, as you may or may not remember, we do have until Oct 16!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 5:19 PM
Yea Ok the Whuh is not the WHAT.
Posted by: sebb at September 23, 2008 5:22 PM
Wasde"Bitter renter" is the automated reply to anyone who claims that houses are overpriced. A fair reply to that is that the supposedly bitterest renter of all turned out to be dead right about the state of American finance. Try as you might --because you're a broker; because you own dubiously priced real estate in crap Brooklyn --you won't push doubters off this board.
Someone should buy this for $4 million; I hope they do. It'll be worth $50 million in twenty years.
You're a pathetic crew, really.
Posted by: Whuh at September 23, 2008 5:24 PM
wow dibs - if you don't think this current situation is the big crash, I'm not sure what you imagine it to be.
Posted by: gkw at September 23, 2008 5:25 PM
Ha, Dave, you really are a wonder. I hope you're buying stocks with both hands. If you don't understand what is unfloding every night on the news programs, you ought to pay someone to explain it to you.
October 16th --deal; I'll see you here, Dave. Deal?
Posted by: Whuh at September 23, 2008 5:26 PM
Unfolding
Posted by: Whuh at September 23, 2008 5:27 PM
Sure.
We went with a Unico system, 2 zones covering three floors. We had all our walls open at the time we opted for this. Contractor was L&K, based in Queens. Everyone will tell you mini-duct systems make a whistling sound. L&K represented that UNICO certified installers know how to put enough vents and bends in the system to avoid the sound. They did it right and it doesn't whistle, although the air handler is right behind our bedroom wall and we hear it whoosh a bit.
The good news is we have no soffets that are not in closets. One air handler is in the cellar; the other in a dropped closet ceiling. They snake the ducts around all kinds of places inside the walls. They did gobble up more space in the closets than they had originally represented and they, and we, made some bad aesthetic decisions about where to place the vents, plus they failed to deliver on a few promises with respect to placing vents. Also, people see the holes and ask "what's that?" Definitely a bit out of character in an old house, but less so than a huge soffet breaking up the crown molding.
My advice -- go on the Unico website and look at what it looks like. Then get some references for UNICO certified installers. I wouldn't heartily recommend L&K, but I wouldn't exactly steer you away. You are a more experienced renovator than I was when we did our house, so you might do a better job pinning down your results.
Houseinprogress on houseblogs.com did a huge blog entry comparing conventional, mini, and ductless A/C a few years back.
Sorry for the long post. If I could shut up about all this house stuff, I wouldn't be on this site anymore. Good luck.
Posted by: slopefarm at September 23, 2008 5:30 PM
DIBS...I don't think you can use PVC in NYC.
If you do a cheap renovation, don't expect such a high return.
Also, regarding the diffusers, a concealed slot diffuser is the way to go in high end renovations. You don't see them. It looks like a reveal in the ceiling.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at September 23, 2008 5:30 PM
Re: Post bklyn11231 at 3:47...
> Isnt that mini-Martha Stewart Katie Brown's house?
Yes, it is! Amazing - beautiful renovation but she obviously has some lofty (can we say filled with air) thoughts on price here.
Posted by: sunspot19 at September 23, 2008 5:31 PM
***"Bitter renter" is the automated reply to anyone who claims that houses are overpriced.
this simply isn't true, or at least hasn't been true in the time that I have been participating in this board (last four months or so). Most everybody on this thread has talked about what a ridiculous price this is and most of the HOTD have been judged to be overpriced recently so I don't know what you are judging by.
In re October 16th, for me the significance of this date is that we will all be alive and reasonably well, and not mauled or otherwise maimed as the What wishes. It is not so much that he wasn't "right" about economic conditions and the banking system, but how he extrapolated this to our death and destruction. So no matter what happens in the market I will toast a toast on October 16th to being alive and well no matter which internet trolls wish me ill. I hope to raise a glass with a few of you guys.
Posted by: wasder at September 23, 2008 5:38 PM
My 5:30 is a response to DIBS at 5:07. Sorry if I confused anyone else.
Posted by: slopefarm at September 23, 2008 5:41 PM
You and I haven't been reading the same blog. I don't wish death and destruction on anyone. What I'd like is for rational pricing to return to both the securities industry and real estate. Some fairy tale by Paulson about how this will bring down the world to the contrary, we will be a lot better off when the hype artists at Corcoran and Goldman lose their credibility.
In the meantime --I say this place is worth 60 million by 2018, easy. My good friend on the UWS --in the arts! --is interested; and boy is she savvy; plus she's got Euro denominated currency. She'd like to pay an even eight for it, to "pay it forward," as it were. Better hurry, before she snaps it up!
Posted by: Whuh at September 23, 2008 5:44 PM
Rational pricing is good. We can all agree on that. I know you don't wish me death and destruction but certainly the former poster whose name need not be mentioned certainly did, on a daily basis. If you come out in support of this persons posts you must take some responsibility for the content of them.
Posted by: wasder at September 23, 2008 5:49 PM
Le prix est incroyable et stupide :)
Hey 11217 why don't you suggest our more unique and beautiful mansions here in Clinton Hill to your boss? You know like that awesome Clinton St HOTD from last week ( Brooklyn Properties). She will get a better bang for her buck and it may even fit the artsy personality:) But i have to agree the vibe in Cobble Hill & / CG is slowly approximating that of the UWS so maybe....
DIBS a lot of the fancy apts in Paris (16th district & Champs Elysee area) have claw feet tubs that work really nice with the overall decor / vibe. But I agree it seems a touch "tacky" in this OVERPRICED house for some reason.
Posted by: pierre de taille at September 23, 2008 5:51 PM
They are off their rockers. Given that it's only medium-sized and the reality of today's market, they'd have a less than 50% chance of getting that price even on the best blocks in Brooklyn Heights or Park Slope. No way on Union Street.
Posted by: NorthHeights at September 23, 2008 6:28 PM
Jingles can you please educate us on RTC in simple terms? Sorry we are not as well versed in the intricacies of finance as you & DIBS seem to be... just a lowly scientist here.
Whuh- the what was almost entirely correct in his predictions about Wall street and even RE but there was NO NEED for his constant invective and schizophrenic rants. He made his comments into personal attacks most of the time filled with despicable language. We think this is why Mr B banished him ... the whole ASShat thing was pretty funny though.
Posted by: pierre de taille at September 23, 2008 6:40 PM
PVC can be used for soil pipe in up to a three floor/2 family...it cannot be used in a four floor/three family or larger....this is a four floor 2 family and probably needs cast iron just based on the number of floors.
NO, this is not a crash qkw; nowhere near anything that would define a crash. This is a correction in the stock market followed by a hell of a lot of volatility but we are no where near a real crash which would be 7% unemployment, a stock market down 50% from its high and all other sorts of shit to use the professional phrase.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 23, 2008 6:57 PM
Japan RE is a bad comparison... they have no immigration and negative population growth. Therefore RE demand is falling. OTOH we have increased immigration and population growth which is a good sign for RE in the long term...
Posted by: denton at September 23, 2008 7:25 PM
So October 16th was the "what" call for some sort of collapse? That guy's crazy.....What a bitter renter....disaffected old school brooklynite....what a tool.....the guy's an idiot....housing will always rise in this city...valuations are low...get your gentrification on....
this HOTD is an absolute steal, and by around 2045, this thing should probably be worth asking....unless we become like zimbabwe and inflate our way out of spending too much, working too little, saving negative percentages of income, and spending a million dollars to live in bedford-gothams....just wait till the layoffs hit bed-stuy and all those new neighborhoods will go back to being plain old "do or die"....i'm now probably swimming underwater myself now....thanks to all you freaking tools and your run amok friends on wall street....thanks a lot guys......the what is fool.....this thing will never fall apart
Posted by: slappy at September 23, 2008 7:48 PM
Pierre--great idea about 11217's boss buying the Clinton Ave house!
Posted by: wasder at September 23, 2008 7:57 PM
So October 16th was the "what" call for some sort of collapse? That guy's crazy.....What a bitter renter....disaffected old school brooklynite....what a tool.....the guy's an idiot....housing will always rise in this city...valuations are low...get your gentrification on....
A totally hysterical misrepresentation of the situation...the What could have said a lot of what he said without making us the strawmen for his homicidal fantasies. There are plenty of people here who manage to make pessimistic predictions about the market without resorting to threats and infantile name calling. A pity for him really. For me October 16th will be the day that I toast one to the What in honor of being alive and well in this crazy world.
Posted by: wasder at September 23, 2008 8:04 PM
Meh - this house is not very exciting. I'm amazed they have the cohones to stick that price on it, esp since Union Street is loud. I also remain stunned by those who think the current crisis won't have affect on NY RE. But, since NY is a different market than rest of country, we may get off fairly easy -- but a decline of some kind is inevitable. That said, probably only recent flippers risk losing money - the lion's share of old timers selling their homes will still do fine since prices rose so much in last 5-10 yrs that even if they went down 30% (which would be a lot), the prices would still be plenty high...
Posted by: Miss Muffett at September 23, 2008 10:18 PM
wasder---Did the what say we would die? I dont think so....He is a crazy dude and probably gets under your skin, but he is really irrelvant.....he was right...and now honest people have worked years of their life, done the right things, are now gettign dragged down because the masters of the universe can't control themselves, and in fact they dont know and have never known.. shit....there are no easy short-cuts in life...and we may all find that out soon....i pray that i and the what am wrong, but our children will be paying this debt back even if we get out with our collective shirts....we could be witnessing the start of the financial fall of this nation after a century or so of being on top of the world, with a serious decline in standard of living
Posted by: slappy at September 24, 2008 12:26 AM
hey slappy. I agree that it sure looks like the average, wise person who spent within their means is getting hosed on both ends, both by the Wall Street types that were packaging these risky loans and by the people who bought beyond their means. But I certainly am not one of the people who anger would normally be pointed at in such a situation (work in the arts, not a millionaire etc). I can't say for sure that the What ever said we were all going to die but certainly "ass raped" came up alot. Whatever, we are in a mess and it is unclear how deep a mess it is.
Posted by: wasder at September 24, 2008 1:40 AM
Since this is becoming both civil and informative, let me add: anger (which I sincerely feel) against Barbara Corcoran and (yes) DIBS is not misplaced; not at all. Wall Street created a demand for bad debt, because some inane central banker in China was willing to buy it at any price. But at the other end of the toxic pipeline were the shills for real estate --the brokers in person (Corcoran being the worst), and then on this blog, as it deteriorated, brokers camouflaging themselves as "Upper West Siders" or affluent "Europeans." The aim was to create a pool of panicked and gullible buyers for dubious Brooklyn real estate, at any price. The fact that some half insane Cassandra named The What came on here to call BS on you, well, I find that admirable, frankly. More admirable than some faked bonhomie between some non-person called Biff and some half person named DIBS, meant to convince me that a slum is a fine place to pay $3 million for a house. So, yes, this POV will continue to be represented on this blog. And if you don't like it, well....fill in the blank.
Posted by: Whuh at September 24, 2008 8:43 AM
I find it hard to believe that you would have anger against Dave, who is community minded where he lives and is involved in civic and business activities with his neighbors in Bed Stuy. If more people put their money where their mouth was we would have peacefully, equitably gentrifying neighborhoods.
I don't know who the fake Upper West Siders or affluent Europeans are but I think your claim that somehow they drove up real estate values (how are they related to Dave or Biff is beyond me as well) is dubious at best. Also, nobody as far as I can tell has tried to convince anyone to spend 3 million in a "slum." Stuyvesant Heights, where DIBS lives, is far from a slum, as judged by the number of new restaurants that have opened there recently and the gorgeous housing stock. Don't know if you have been there or not. There were people trying to get a million dollars for brownstones on prime blocks around there (not 3!) but at this point a realistic appraisal of those homes tops out at 800G or so. Anyway, I don't mean to spend my time defending Dave because he can do so himself but your charges are so weird and antithetical to the actual situation that I thought I would say something.
I welcome your perspective on this board by the way, especially if we can keep it civil and informative.
Posted by: wasder at September 24, 2008 9:01 AM
wasder...his post and his logic is so full of misinformation and holes that its not worth commenting on.
Thanks though.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 24, 2008 9:07 AM
As a buyer, can I renegotiate the price I'm paying for a condo after I signed the contract (while waiting for appraisal and the closing?)
Posted by: hello at September 24, 2008 10:57 AM
Latest Restaurant Additions
-
Le Barricou
added November 20, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Der Schwarze Kölner
added November 19, 2009 12:00 PM in Fort Greene -
Oak Wine Bar & Café
added November 18, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Mr. Wonton
added November 17, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Casa Rosa
added November 16, 2009 12:00 PM in Carroll Gardens -
Cousin John's Café & Bakery
added November 13, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Elote
added November 12, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Miracle Grill
added November 11, 2009 12:00 PM in Park Slope -
Phoebe's Cafe
added November 10, 2009 12:00 PM in Williamsburg -
Ruthie's
added November 9, 2009 12:00 PM in Clinton Hill, Downtown Brooklyn
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.