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September 16, 2008

House of the Day: 405 Clinton Avenue

405-Clinton-Avenue-0908.jpg
This is big news, people. The idiosyncratic mansion that William Tubby designed in 1889 for Charles Adolph Schieren, a leather manufacturer, inventor, politician and philanthropist, has hit the market after years of neglect and deterioration. The Romanesque Revival/Queen Anne hybrid has been owned by the same person since 1990, and unfortunately he has not had the means to maintain the historic house in the manner it deserves. Many in the neighborhood have hoped he would sell it before it was too late, so this comes as great news. There are no interior photos, but given the open windows and, we hear, lack of heat in the house, it's gotta be in pretty rough shape. Let's hope there's some well-heeled preservationist out there who's got the mojo to buy the place and return it to its former splendor. The asking price for the 6,300-square-foot place is $3,995,000.
405 Clinton Avenue [Brooklyn Properties] GMAP P*Shark
Serious Dumpster Action on Clinton Avenue [Brownstoner]




Posted by Brownstoner at 1:16 PM | Comments (29)
Categories: Clinton Hill, HOTD

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"The idiosyncratic mansion that William Tubby designed in 1889 for Charles Adolph Schieren, a leather manufacturer, inventor, politician and philanthropist, according to the Landmark Preservation report on Clinton Hill."

Fragment.

Posted by: East New York at September 16, 2008 1:15 PM

That is one of the truly amazing houses in Brooklyn. I have often walked past and imagined what it looked like on the inside. How great would it be if somebody had the means to fix that place up. Price seems to be a pipe dream though. Unless a school or some other kind of organization bought it to use as a headquarters/classroom kind of thing I don't see this as being feasible for any home buyer or investor.

Posted by: wasder at September 16, 2008 1:20 PM

Yikes! How embarrassing.

Posted by: brownstoner at September 16, 2008 1:22 PM

No problem. Happens all the time in my business. At least you corrected it!

Posted by: East New York at September 16, 2008 1:24 PM

Oh oh oh my god!

If I had the funds I'd buy it in a hot second. Just to be able to see this fully restored would be such a reward.

I hope it finds the deep pockets it deserves.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at September 16, 2008 1:27 PM

Too bad it is not closer to one of the public art waterfalls, that would have taken care of the green architecture.

Stoner, a suggestion:
compile the ratings of the public schools in some of the neighborhoods. I notice that Park Slope schools got A's and B's. Quite a few A's in Carroll Gardens too. Brooklyn Heights got an F (ouch) and Cobble Hill's PS 29 a C.
Anyway, which brownstone neighborhod has the best and worst public schools?

Posted by: sam at September 16, 2008 1:35 PM

It's so sad that the most likely scenario is that some cheeseball developer will buy it and somehow turn this glorious house into cookie cutter apartments with "stainless steel appliances."

Posted by: gkw at September 16, 2008 1:36 PM

If the 12000 sf Pfizer Mansion took two years to sell for 3.2M before the credit crunch, how could they expect 800k more for a place half the size? Someone should fix this place up, but if the owner really cares about it he should cut the price in half.

Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at September 16, 2008 1:37 PM

My thoughts exactly, Fred. Even in better economic times, close to $4MM is crazy.

Posted by: tinarina at September 16, 2008 1:45 PM

In light of the state of the economy, the timing is unfortunate. I do hope that a passionate person steps forward to save this piece of Brooklyn history. I do wonder what the interior looks like? The house does seem overpriced. I am assuming that the interior needs as much work as the exterior. With the amount of money that it would cost to fix the interior, the price gets pushed up to over $1000/square foot. That's mighty steep for Clinton Hill. That said, I hope that this house finds a loving owner.

Posted by: superstooper at September 16, 2008 2:07 PM

I have always loved this house. It has so much character as it is. I can't believe its for sale.

Posted by: cortnyc at September 16, 2008 2:31 PM

sam, I'm not sure what the school ratings have to do with this topic. Regardless, if you read the articles on the subject, particularly with regard to PS 8 in BH, you would realize how controversial and biased the ratings are; hardly surprising, given the DOE is behind them. I think they are really a misleading indicator of a school's quality (full disclosure, I live in BH. But I would not give much weight to the "C" given to PS29 in Cobble Hill too). I think the test scores, as shown on insideschools.org, are a much better indication of how the school is doing.

Posted by: Biff Champion at September 16, 2008 2:43 PM

I love this place, as I imagine most people in the neighborhood do. The description says it was home to two NYC mayors. I had always heard it was home to a mayor of Brooklyn pre-NYC unification days.

I'm also confused by the dimensions given in the description. 30*70*95. 30 wide, sure, 70 deep, probably, not sure what the 95 is. 105 foot lot, so I guess the old carriage house (I think there is one behind this that fronts onto Waverly) is separately owned.

I think this is a completely reasonable price. This place is much more interesting than the Pfizer mansion. Did the mansion on the same block several doors south of this place go for $3.4 or $3.5 (the former dilapidated mansion/church). If I only had the money...

Posted by: 1842 at September 16, 2008 2:45 PM

Fred,

The Pfizer Mansion (280 Washington Avenue) was the home of Fanny Erhart and her husband Rudolf Erbsloeh with their four children (1 son and 3 daughters). Fanny was the daughter of Charles Erhart. Charles Erhart was a co-founder of Pfizer with his cousin/brother-in-law Charles Pfizer.

Fanny lived in the house until the teens when she sold the house to Walter Rappelyea Davies and moved down the street from The Plaza Hotel.

It's unclear why she sold. It was shortly after her only son died at the age of two. Also her husband was in a bit of trouble because he was hiding money for his German friends in dummy companies.

Walter R. Davies was a lawyer who handled the Boerum Estate among others and was the treasurer of the Brooklyn Commitee for the Prevention of Tuberculosis which was headed be Frederic Pratt.

In 1925 Davies leased the house to The Brooklyn Public Library. It served as their offices for five years. He then sold it to St. Angela Hall Academy and was used as a nun's residence and a school library.

The twin house at 282 was the home of Fanny's brother William H. Erhart who was the chairman at Pfizer from 1929-1940. William was married to Frances Huntington, the daughter of the president of Dime Savings Bank. She died suddenly in 1902.

And so on and so on. . . .

Also, the house isn't 12,000 square feet as reported. It's closer to 10.

Posted by: superstooper at September 16, 2008 2:53 PM

I agree with Sam. Even a flame war about which neighborhood has better schools has got to be better than a bunch of recycled Zagat's restaurant reviews (and more on topic for this blog).

Posted by: NorthHeights at September 16, 2008 3:03 PM

Oh and the point to all that was that it was never lived in by a Pfizer.

Posted by: superstooper at September 16, 2008 3:16 PM

@ gkw -there's nothing about that house that can be "cookie cutter" & what's wrong with stainless steel appliances?

Posted by: BKALLDAY at September 16, 2008 3:20 PM

I think we should get that co-housing group to buy this place and fix it up so they can co-house in it. :P

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at September 16, 2008 3:59 PM

Amazing place. I had the chance to chat up one of the guys cleaning the place this past Friday and he tells me it will need an absolute gut restoration. I then spoke to the broker Roger Hackette who confirmed that this amazing will place will need EVERYTHING from scratch. Now with that in mind I am not sure why it is priced so unrealistically. The Washington Ave mansion has been sitting @ $3m forever and will continue to do so but i guess owners are not in a hurry...not smart IMHO especially with the Wall Street folks exsanguinating like hell.
Absolutely spectacular mansion though and like Townhouselady I will buy this thing in a heartbeat if I hit the Lottery :) LOL

Ah the fantasy ! Oh la la A real castle right here in Brooklyn.

Posted by: pierre de taille at September 16, 2008 4:09 PM

Pierre--I hope you win the lottery.

Posted by: wasder at September 16, 2008 4:15 PM

I predict it'll be chopped up and resold as 6 or so condo units.

Posted by: Biff Champion at September 16, 2008 4:17 PM

I wonder what happened to the squatter dude who would always sit on the stairs at night and scare the sh-t out of me as I walked home from the C. He was there quite often, and I can't imagine he was the last "owner"?

This house is truly one of the jewels of the neighborhood, I sincerely hope that whatever becomes of it, it is treated as such.

Posted by: misterhaven at September 16, 2008 4:21 PM

I think he was the last owner. And still the current owner until this sells. Given what everyone is saying about the interior, why wouldn't it be most reasonable to "carve" it up into many units. It is a great location, but the time of the grand manse has passed in Clinton Hill (unless you believe the Onion's recent take on Fort Greene/Clinton Hill).

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at September 16, 2008 5:09 PM

Wonderful house. Too bad they don't have some pictures, even the fakey kind with the closeup of the newel post or something. Any hint of the grandeur that must have once been there.

I third the Lottery comment. I hope the house is rescued by someone with vision and a love of the actual house, not just how many units it could become.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 16, 2008 5:54 PM

I was going to email you about this, but I couldn't find the listing on Brooklyn Properties' site last week. Glad to see you noticed it too!

Really beautiful house. I love Romanesque Victorians.

Are the other mansions surrounding this one single-family too?

Posted by: Heather at September 16, 2008 6:07 PM

Hey thanks Wasder, if I win the lottery and buy this place guess who my first dinner guests are gonna be? Yes you wasder, MM, Mr B, DIBS, Biff, Bob Marvin, and certainly the What himself...just for the extra fun :) Ah drole...LOL

Posted by: pierre de taille at September 16, 2008 6:42 PM

The guy always hanging in front of the house was not the owner, but now he is. From what I was told about the story, he was a tenant when the owner past away. Apparently the owner had no family whatsoever and no one could claim the house as theirs. I'm not sure how it happened, but if the renter stayed in the house and waited a certain amount of time the house would be his. So now I suppose he waited long enough and the house is his to sell.

Posted by: Ali Baba at September 17, 2008 7:26 AM

pierre de taille, vous êtes très gentils. Je serais honoré de m'asseoir à votre table. Mais vous devez inviter Heather aussi!

It would be so much fun to say, "The What, would you mind passing the coq au vin?"

Posted by: Biff Champion at September 17, 2008 8:13 AM

Looks like the tenant won the lottery!

Posted by: opelske at October 7, 2008 12:35 AM

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