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September 2, 2008

Dunkin' Donuts: the Starbucks of Brooklyn

dunkindonuts_08_08.jpg
"Despite an influx of hipsters and Manhattanites, moderately priced chain stores outnumber the hoity-toity multi-outlets in Brooklyn," reports the Daily News, basing their assertions on a study released by the Center for an Urban Future earlier this year. We have 1,203 chains in Brooklyn, but many are on the moderate side. There are 89 Dunkin' Donuts in Brooklyn, as compared to only 18 Starbucks, and Brooklyn has more 7-Elevens than any other borough. We also score high in Payless, Jimmy Jazz and Golden Krust stores, and low in Sephora, Pottery Barn and Coach.
Brooklyn Sweeter on Dunkin' Donuts than Starbucks [NY Daily News]
Dunkin' Donuts at Night. Photo by lab2112.




Posted by lisa at 8:57 AM | Comments (37)
Categories: Retail

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It would be interesting to see the numbers by neighborhood, rather than for all of Brooklyn. I suspect that the majority of the Starbucks are in "the Brownstone Belt."

Posted by: g man at September 2, 2008 9:07 AM

G Man,
You made me curious... I just went on the starbucks website and looked at the store locator. While many of the Brooklyn stores are in the chunk o' brooklyn between Prospect Park and Manhattan (what I'm assuming you're calling the "Brownstone Belt), it's actually surprising... especially for Starbucks... that they are spread around the borough and sort of "evenly." Bensonhurst, bayridge (3 alone on 3rd ave), brigton beach and son on.

Interesting...

Posted by: tybur6 at September 2, 2008 9:15 AM

1 of 3 Starbucks in Bay Ridge is closing as part of Starbucks cost cutting plans.

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/31/29/31_29_ml_br_starbucks.html

Posted by: curijay at September 2, 2008 9:44 AM

bk could use a pottery barn

Posted by: blackstoner at September 2, 2008 9:45 AM

While this is hardly earth shattering news, I also don't see what the big deal is. The entirety of Bklyn has a lower per capita income than Manhattan. Payless, Golden Krust, Dunkin Donuts, etc appeal to the majority of people here, that majority being middle and lower income folk.

I'm sure a Pottery Barn in PS or BH would do well, and maybe even a Coach store, so if they opened up, great, but it's not like we're on an island in the South Pacific. If we want to go to these places in Manhattan, they are pretty near where most people work, or easy to get to otherwise.

For me, the appeal of Brooklyn is that I get out of the subway, no matter what neighborhood, and I'm out of Manhattan. The temperature is cooler in the summer, there are less people, it's quieter, and the whole scale and pace of life is less urgent, less big. Why drag Manhattan over to Brooklyn? While the presence of these places is in of themselves no big deal, and even desireable, it's just another step in turning Brooklyn into Manhattan South. I would hope we don't lose Brooklyn in the inevitable changes that occur.

Besides, if you don't want to shop at Payless, etc, don't. There are worse places than Dunkin Donuts, and I've been know to occasionaly indulge in a sugar rush.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 2, 2008 9:50 AM

Dunkin Donuts is owned by the Carlyle Group, once connected to both the Bush family and the Bin Ladins.

http://www.carlyle.com/Portfolio/item7440.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlyle_Group

A few years ago two Dunkin Donuts shops were built on either side of a long-standing independent donut shop on 9th Street near Fifth Avenue in Park Slope, quickly putting the place out of business. Pretty vile in my opinion.

Posted by: AdrianLesher at September 2, 2008 9:57 AM

"interesting..."

Hardly.

Posted by: Nanook at September 2, 2008 10:03 AM

Montrose, as always a thoughtful well written post. Totally agreed that most people expect to do their high end retail in Manhattan and then come home to Brooklyn to chill out.

Posted by: wasder at September 2, 2008 10:04 AM

shopping for furniture shouldn't require a trip to manhattan (or li or nj)

Posted by: blackstoner at September 2, 2008 10:12 AM

"shopping for furniture shouldn't require a trip to manhattan"

Absolutely agree. We really do need more home furnishing stores in Brooklyn. There are plenty of people here with money who need nice place settings and espresso machines. And no, I am not being sarcastic.

Posted by: jwald at September 2, 2008 10:29 AM

Thank you, Nanook, for pointing out that what interests each of us is subjective and variable. And thank you, tybur6, for your research. I have never been desperate enough to require a store locater for the nearest Starbucks.

Adrian, the great majority of Dunkin Donuts are franchises. And as for Park Slope, I think that was a win-win. (It's only one store, which wraps around the corner.) The neighborhood got better coffee and good, quick Middle Eastern food where the independent doughnut shop used to be.)

Posted by: g man at September 2, 2008 10:35 AM

i don't particularly care one way or the other. don't love starbucks, but definitely don't love dunkin either. but as long as there are places that serve gorilla and other good coffee, i don't really care what else is around.

but montrose, why so defensive? i agree with you about serving the lower/middle-income, but i'm not sure what effect dunkin donuts thing has on brooklyn being more "relaxed" than manhattan. it's not like dunkin donuts - or any of these other chains - is an oasis of chill. in fact, they tend to be a lot dirtier, more hectic, run-down and less pleasant than many independent alternatives. like you say, the result for me is that i just don't go to them, but it isn't as if these establishments are some kind of embodiment of why many of us prefer brooklyn to manhattan.

Posted by: i disagree at September 2, 2008 10:44 AM

AdrianLesher - trust me it was nowhere near as vile as the donut shop itself....if there was ever a poster-child for 'deserves to go out of business' - that store was it.

Posted by: fsrg at September 2, 2008 10:50 AM

Adrian Lesher;

I completely agree with frsq - that donut shop is not missed. There are other nearby places that have held their own against these particular DD's - Cafe Regular on 11th Street, for instance (which is great).

Also, please spare us the conspiracy stuff about Carlyle. One of its co-founders and longtime presidents is David Rubinstein, who is active in the Democrat party, and served in the Carter administration:

http://www.carlyle.com/Team/item5553.html

Is he in on the deal also, or do they have body-snatchers at Carlyle?

Posted by: benson at September 2, 2008 10:58 AM

The only thing that bugs me about Payless Shoe Source is that there are FOUR of them within a few blocks of each other in the Fulton Mall.

Ugh.

I'm also within a ten minute walk to no less than 5 Starbucks.

Also ugh.


Posted by: BK11201 at September 2, 2008 10:58 AM

Who'se defensive, i disagree? I was simply expressing my opinion that I don't want to see Brooklyn turn into Manhattan Over River. Part of what makes Bklyn Brooklyn is that fact that it isn't all upscaled and posh.

A newspaper article that does a survey on the number of Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts is rather silly, anyway, as anyone could have easily predicted that there would be less Starbucks and Sephoras in Brooklyn, and due to our demographics, many more Payless shoes and Dunkin Donuts.

My opinions have really nothing to do with Dunkin Donuts at all. I don't drink coffee, rarely buy a donut, and only go to Starbucks when meeting friends, so the presence or absence of both of these places isn't the point. I also have no problem with the arrival of a Pottery Barn, and am actually suprised there isn't one here already, they would probably do well, and depending on where that was, would shop there, if convenient.

My point is merely a wish that we not lose our identiy in our desire to have everything at our fingertips, just like in Manhattan. Part of that identity is our mixture of high and low, expensive and cheap. That's it, nothing more involved or complicated than that.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 2, 2008 11:04 AM

I am well aware that there is no "e" in who's. Sorry.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 2, 2008 11:10 AM

I tend to agree with Montrose on what's so wonderful about Brooklyn. (Not of course that I wouldn't be hysterically happy to have some great coffee shops in my neighborhood) but the whole impetus to remake Brooklyn into Manhattan's image bothers me no end. The Bloomberg administration has made it a priority because they believe better pricing in Brooklyn will keep businesses here in NYC. And that's admirable and desirable. So Brooklyn is becoming more expensive, thanks, in part, to those policies. I simply don't want Brooklyn to be Manhattan across the river.

But I love Brooklyn for what it is, not what it isn't. jwald- there are great stores all over Brooklyn just waiting to be discovered. Guaranteed you'll find the beautiful place settings and the expresso machine.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 2, 2008 11:35 AM

18 Starbucks in Brooklyn? I remember when there were 3.

Love me a good chain. My friends and I eat at Applebee's in Sheepshead Bay on occasonal Sundays, and I get some coffee at DD each morning before walking to work. On my lunch hour I walk to 7-11 and if I don't know what I want for lunch, here's always something to buy there that's tasty. Plus they have Citibank ATMs.

I always thought many of these chains serve the same purpose here in Brooklyn as they do in other parts of the country: were here's few restaurants, or bad ones, they fill a niche. It's weird to see an Outback Steakhouse in the middle of Bensonhurst's italian eateries, or to see that all the guards in the Gateway Mall's several chains have concealed guns. How may places in New York can you go, *knowing* and feeling god that people are armed? Ha ha!

Posted by: infinitejester at September 2, 2008 11:42 AM

i just didn't really see the connection between your post and what the article was about...just seemed defensive about the identity of brooklyn as relaxed and lower-key when the presence of certain chain stores and the absence of certain others as discussed in the article seems to have little to do with that. thanks for clarifying, though.

i agree that a mixture of high and low is part of what makes brooklyn nice. frankly, i don't think the current mix accurately reflects brooklyn's demographics and would like to see a better mix that includes more of the "slightly upscale" like crate and barrel. (the lack of starbucks reflects a problem with its coffee, which is expensive and bad, and a bad business model, rather than the lack of an audience for the upscale in brooklyn.)

Posted by: i disagree at September 2, 2008 11:50 AM

i agree with the general sentiment that it would be unfortunate if brooklyn were to become filled with chain stores. but i don't understand the whole notion of brooklyn becoming 'like manhattan.' manhattan is a big place with a lot of very different neighborhoods. east village, west village, les, ues, midtown, downtown, harlem, hamilton heights -- each neighborhood has its own character. i think when people talk of 'manhattanization' they are thinking of midtown and its chain-retail, office-space emphasis, and not about the quiet streets and independent shops of the west village or the scrappy, still-gritty lower east side. but i'm not really sure.

in any event, brooklyn is its own borough and no one -- not even a billionaire mayor -- has the power to force it to become something it doesn't want to be.

Posted by: z at September 2, 2008 11:57 AM

"Despite an influx of hipsters and Manhattanites, moderately priced chain stores outnumber the hoity-toity multi-outlets in Brooklyn,"

This is news?

Posted by: East New York at September 2, 2008 12:08 PM

z- indeed you're right. I guess the issue for me is defined by the changes in my old neighborhood of Brooklyn Heights and downtown Brooklyn. Believe me I don't hate Manhattan- I love, as you said, "the quiet streets and independent shops of the west village or the scrappy, still-gritty lower east side."

My fear is that they are also rapidly disappearing. between that rampant overdevelopment rush, the attempt to impose fees to drive into Manhattan and the outrageous prices, sometimes I think Bloomberg thinks of Manhattan as a gated community with great marketing potential as a theme park. From my point of view- and economic level- that's just how I see it.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 2, 2008 12:27 PM

This is not surprising at all. What is surprising is how Dunkin Donuts pulled off the amazing public-relations coup of getting people to discuss their coffee as comparable to Starbucks in the first place. DD coffee is the same watery dreck they pour at any fast-food joint, made from pre-ground, canned, Folgers-quality beans. And their specialty drinks, unlike Starbucks, are made with artificial flavors.

Another fact I find surprising, here in retail-challenged Brooklyn: Yesterday, I wanted to go buy a $12 t-shirt, and hit up the store locator for The Gap. There isn't one anywhere in the whole borough. And The Gap--while a little more upmarket than Jimmy Jazz, I guess--is not exactly Gucci.


Posted by: Rehab at September 2, 2008 12:32 PM

DD should be prosecuted under the Trade Descriptions Act for calling what they sell coffee. If I'm stuck in a neighborhood where theres no local decent coffeehouse a trip to McDonalds ensues. Its suprisingly not bad, it has even done well in blind taste tests. I think it must be the beans. Only Mcds tho, no other fastfood place comes near.

And the continued success of Applebees continues to amaze me. Its not even cheap. It's so easy to make money in this country with a crap product. Either that or a new TV-based pay-as-you-go religion.

Posted by: dittoburg at September 2, 2008 12:40 PM

Rehab;

I know of at least one GAP in Brooklyn. it is located on the corner of 86th Street and 21st Ave. in Bensonhurst. You can take the "D" train right there (Bay Parkway stop).

Posted by: benson at September 2, 2008 12:45 PM

surprised me too dittoburg. But- and I choke to admit it- MickeyD's has a decent cup of coffee. And easy to find in my neighborhood :-).

I kid around about having a Starbucks here but truthfully I find their coffee too bitter, not to mention overpriced. So we know what's good coffee. We now need a swill contest, rating all the bad ones on a scale of -25 to +10.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 2, 2008 1:03 PM

There used to be a Gap on Montague across from Haagan Daaz, near Henry St. I haven't been over there in a long time, so it wouldn't surprise me to find out neither one is there anymore.

I know Manhattan has highbrow and lowbrow nabes. My comments refer to a general midtown feeling, I suppose, although it extends to the Upper East and West Sides. When I came to NY in '77, the Upper West Side was more like Clinton Hill. I would not like Clinton Hill to ever become like today's Upper West Side.

I'm talking about an undefinable, indescribable combination of neighborhood, open spaces, mix of people, incomes, interests, architecture, etc.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 2, 2008 1:17 PM

also a Gap on 86th Street between 4th and 5th aves in the Century 21 Shopping district. not that i shop there :-)

Posted by: LilBitOfLuck at September 2, 2008 1:43 PM

Interesting-- thanks, Gap spotters. Still, if you do a store locator on Gap's website, you'll see that the company itself doesn't seem to know it has stores in BK. Weird.

Posted by: Rehab at September 2, 2008 2:01 PM

im surprised people havent shouted at you for shopping at the gap instead of overpriced "local business", Rehab

Posted by: blackstoner at September 2, 2008 2:44 PM

Brooklyn (similar to Manhattan) has high and low... there's not a lot in the way of "middle ground" except for the chain stores. There's some, so don't throw lots of exceptions my way. Generally, the contrast is 99cent stores and fancy little knickknack shops... and bodega sanwiches and french bistro.

The chains seem to be the only thing filling in the gap... including the Gap.

Posted by: tybur6 at September 2, 2008 2:57 PM

That Gap was in a rather lovely, now decimated building that had a Burger King. not sure what's there now but it looked to maybe have been a temple o' money before it morphed into burger king.

Posted by: bxgrl at September 2, 2008 3:35 PM

I used to go to D&D exclusively until it finally dawned on me: Starbuck's is actually cheaper.

I don't fuck with the fancy drinks, but the iced coffee at Starbucks is definitely cheaper, and much, much better. Add to that the fact that Starbucks is much nicer and treats its employees better, and I have no idea how D&D still does so well.

And if that Carlyle Group comment is true, that's even more of a reason to never go there again.

Posted by: Come Clean at September 2, 2008 3:37 PM

I could have sworn there was a gap on 86th street in bay ridge. I do with the BR in Brooklyn Heights was bigger though. I hate having to shop in Manhattan for new office pants.

Posted by: Polemicist at September 2, 2008 4:37 PM

We need an Outback for the "Bloomin' Onion"

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 2, 2008 4:48 PM

I think it's hilarious that chain stores are being associated with the "Manhattanization" of Broojklyn. It wasn't that long ago that none of those chain stores would set foot in Manhattan because they were busy spreading like roaches though every indoor mall throughout every suburban corner of the country. It wasn't until they saturated suburban America that these chains turned their attention to Manhattan with it's smaller retail footprints that required them to build multi-level stores and to break out of the cookie cutter store layouts that they could get away with replicating in all the malls. Pottery Barn is not associated with Manhattan in my mind - it's associated with a suburban mall. I know that it sounds like I'm complaining here - but I'm not. I remember living in Manhattan and being annoyed that I had to go to the burbs to hit up a Crate and Barrel. If you look up the statistics (I forget where I saw them) Brooklyn is definitely on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of SF of retail space per capita, so I say, the more the merrier. There's plenty of opportunity to add a couple of Restoration Funritures and still keep all the mid range stores that make you all feel that Brooklyn is somehow more "authentic".

Posted by: Make My Heights the P Heights at September 3, 2008 10:49 AM

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