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September 29, 2008
Atlantic Yards Suffers a Setback
Two weeks ago, the NY Times reported that an Atlantic Yards groundbreaking might take place in December. That's looking almost impossible now, and not because of the Wall Street meltdown. The New York State Appellate Court rejected the Empire State Development Corporation's (ESDC) attempt to dismiss the lawsuit brought by AY opponents (tenants and property owners in the project's shadow), the one that claims Forest City and the ESDC misused eminent domain, according Develop Don't Destroy Brooklyn's press release. That means Ratner still doesn't own the land he had planned to build on come December. The suit now goes forward, with briefs to be filed this winter and oral arguments expected next spring.
Atlantic Yards Timeline Not Getting Shorter [Curbed]
Atlantic Yards Breaking Ground in December? [TRD]
Bad Government. Photo by brockenbrough.
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Comments
Congratulations NIMBY's you "won" - no way AY gets done in this generation....
Hope you enjoy the eyesore - because you'll be looking at it for at least a decade or two more.
Posted by: fsrg at September 29, 2008 11:38 AM
I look forward to being part of the community input into what will be built on the Vanderbilt Yards when they are taken back from Ratner after this project fails to get off of the ground.
I think the Nets will definitely stay in Jersey, and Ratner will sell the various sites that owns in the footprint now that they are conveniently zoned for residential development.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at September 29, 2008 11:49 AM
If true, that's not the "NIMBY's" fault. The rail cut would have remained a visible part of the city's incredible infrastructure and the buildings probably would have continued to gentrify. If there is an eyesore, it was made by FCRC, both through physical demolition and the incredible hubris that preceded it.
Posted by: altervoce at September 29, 2008 11:49 AM
Congratulations homeowners, for not letting a billionaire businessman steal your homes and land. Sometimes America does do things right. In light of all the lying and stealing that is now killing wall street, it is amazing that someone has jumped the mold and decided to do what's right in this instance.
Posted by: werner at September 29, 2008 12:13 PM
Shahn, there never was a zoning change, only plans for a state "zoning override."
Posted by: g man at September 29, 2008 12:15 PM
Nothing will EVER get built on this site. It will be a hole in the ground for the next 50 years, just like it's been an eyesore in the ground for the last 50 years. If Jesus Christ came down from heaven and said he wanted to built a church at the corner of Flatbush and Atlantic, I guarantee that NIMBY's would come out against it.
Posted by: FtGreeneCorey at September 29, 2008 12:17 PM
....Atlantic Yards (RIP), Brooklyn Bridge Park (RIP), Whole Foods (RIP), Willoughby Square (RIP). So much for Brooklyn 2012...looks like we're going back to Brooklyn 1992
Posted by: FtGreeneCorey at September 29, 2008 12:20 PM
Wait for it. It's the last of many formalities with this project. The state zoning override is a done deal, in contrast to the rest of the project.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at September 29, 2008 12:21 PM
Shahn could you please STFU - you will be dead before any development takes place at AY site; and other than being another member of the annoying NIMBY crowd you input will be meaningless, because you know nothing about real estate or development as your failed Broken Angel project demonstrates.
Posted by: fsrg at September 29, 2008 12:33 PM
The zoning override is project-specific and would not be transferable.
Corey, last I checked, Brooklyn Bridge Park and, to a lesser extent, Willoughby Square were moving forward.
Posted by: g man at September 29, 2008 12:37 PM
sure, let's blame the nimbys, not the greedy juggernaut that tried to ride right over them (and us). Maybe, if the powers that be would pay attention to the constituents, they would have less problems going forward on projects. But they don't. they forget who foots the bill (hint- it isn't ratner). they think they know better than us- somehow I have trouble believing that a billionaire who lives on the upper East Side really knows what life is like for me, or that he knows what's best for me. Wall St. is looking a lot like karma these days- but again, it's people like me and my fellow Brooklynites, along with the rest of American taxpayers who will pay the bill.
In all honesty- ratnerville could have been done so much better- that fact that it's been fought to a standstill has nothing to do with nimbyism and everything to do with greed, cronyism and arrogance. I'm more than happy to look at that eyesore for another 50 years, thanks. It's a damn sight prettier than Ratner and his friends.
Posted by: bxgrl at September 29, 2008 12:44 PM
I'm down for some guerrilla gardening.
Posted by: Fjorder at September 29, 2008 12:50 PM
I agree with Shahn. Smaller, less ego driven projects could easily fill the site, and actually get done. Bigger seldom is better, these days.
The land is not going to sit with a big hole in it for the next 50 years, it's too valuable and too central to the necessary growth of Bklyn. FCR is not the right developer, and Atlantic Yards is not the right development. Plain and simple. I look forward to smaller projects which take all of the considerations involved that Ratner ignored: public good, infrastructure, traffic, affordable and sustainable building and housing, and some good design.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at September 29, 2008 1:02 PM
Bxgrl - you act as though 'the community' has a singular vision for what should have been built at AY - or (and maybe more importantly) what is APPROPRIATE for the site.
While what's best for YOU certainly is a consideration, it should be a tiny one when you consider that YOU don't own the site, have never owned the site and that what gets develops effects MILLIONS of people in the Boro, City and Region.
Posted by: fsrg at September 29, 2008 1:06 PM
FSRQ, I'll remember to send you an invite when the community is asked for input on the Vanderbilt Yards after all of this Atlantic Yards mess is done and gone.
The Vanderbilt Yards are in my backyard, and happen to want something built there, so while it is fun to call people NIMBY's, the prevailing rhetoric against people that oppose the Atlantic Yards plan is not one size fits all. Most of us appose what is proposed for the site, and the closed door dealings of FCR, not the development of the site.
Furthermore, the Broken Angel project is alive and well, thank you, and I'll be sure to invite you to the completion party when it's done.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at September 29, 2008 1:11 PM
FSRQ, Ratner doesn't own the site (all of it), has never owned the site, and will never own the site.
The thing that was always missing from his plan was the input of the representatives of those millions of people in the Boro, City, and Region that were going to subsidize his profits while getting no input into the supposed public good that they were going to theoretically be benefitting from.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at September 29, 2008 1:17 PM
MM- smaller developers, nor is the Government able to afford or justify to pay for the $300M cover so that any developer could build anything there - nor is a site adjacent to the largest transportation hub (by lines) in the country appropriate for 'small scale' development - no matter how much the people who live next door to the site may want that to be the reality
Posted by: fsrg at September 29, 2008 1:22 PM
Interesting...
Remember, there was a huge amount of building (both private and institutional)during the (Big D) Depression when labor was relatively cheap and the dislocation in the economy allowed for the consolidation of real estate parcels...but the conditions were probably quite different from today...
I wonder what will happen next spring.
It IS too bad though that they could not have left Ward's Bakery. And pretty scary that a whole street of parked cars got crushed by the parapet toppling on the the sidewalk and roadway!... The Bakery could have had a similar redo like the Newswalk building. AND, it's demolition and other work going on in the vicinity has scattered a LOT of rats all over the surrounding areas. Hhhh... Ratnik, the gift that keeps on giving!
Posted by: BrooklynGreene at September 29, 2008 1:26 PM
FSRG,
I like to think that I -and Bxgrl own the site - because it was our tax dollars that paid for it - and yours too of course.
But you're right about one thing, millions of people will be effected by it - because giving Ratner $2 billion over the next 5-10 years in order to receive $1 billion in increase tax revenue over the next 20 years (according to Ratner's own projections) will cause more deficits and further hurt the economy for all of us.
Posted by: Johnny at September 29, 2008 1:27 PM
It didn't stop Palin.
Posted by: James Patience at September 29, 2008 1:28 PM
Shahn - who are you kidding - your Broken Angel completion party won't be happening for years, and when and if it does (and you still are involved) - it will be a total money loser and other than not tearing down the entire shell - will be indistinguishable from any other condo project in this city; despite all your pontificating about preservation, community, and partnering with the resident 'artist'.
Posted by: fsrg at September 29, 2008 1:32 PM
Johnny, your tax dollars haven't paid for one cent of the parcel (certainly no yet) and despite the comments by Shahn @1:17 - the millions of people who would be effected by the plan have been heard from through their representatives - since your representatives are the numerous executive and legislative bodies that approved it - as well as the judicial officers appointed by the same.
Not one single politician has been elected or unelected on a platform consistent with opposition to AY.
As to the $2B subsidy to Ratner - this is another lie - over 2/3 of that 'subsidy' was tax abatement for taxes that otherwise would have been paid on the AY development - guess what - there is no AY development and so for approx 1.5B - having or not having AY has ZERO effect on State or local budgets or deficits - cause empty land and pits don't generate taxes.
Again - you won - congrats - enjoy your hole.
Posted by: fsrg at September 29, 2008 1:39 PM
GMan, regarding Brooklyn Bridge Park, Daniel Squadron won his election largely on the strength of being Anti Brooklyn Bridge Park (he was heavily supported by the Anti Brooklyn Bridge Park NIMBY's in Brooklyn Heights). The financing currently in place for the park calls for it to be self sustaining meaning the residential and retail will pay a special surcharge. Squadron and the Brooklyn Heights NIMBY's want it to be a "true park" with not condo development. If they unwind that deal at this point, the $225 million in funding (from the city and the state) will disappear...particularly in this disasterous economic climate. It took them 30 years to get to this point (basically just clearing the piers)...Brooklyn Bridge Park (RIP)
Posted by: FtGreeneCorey at September 29, 2008 1:42 PM
fsrq- let's talk bout pandering, shall we? Because you are doing a slam bang up job of shilling for ratner. I don't own AY but I damn well have a stake in it because my tax dollars are being wasted on it. ratner got a huge deal on the air rights, and the return on MY investment is going to be maybe 1-3 billion dollars in 30 years? Peanuts, while he lives high on the hog and AY will be a community disaster. Big Housing projects DO NOT WORK. they dehumanize, they are difficult to maintain and they sap resources from surrounding areas. Maybe when they build up the subway lines to expand capacity, and they put up affordable housing first, then talk about it. Bail out wall St. Not until then.
As for Broken angel- you're sounding a little bitter there. Shahn is actually doing something constructive and positive, while all you do is whine about a home for a second class basketball team.
Posted by: bxgrl at September 29, 2008 1:45 PM
The loss of Ward's is a tough one to swallow. What a waste.
Posted by: brownstoner at September 29, 2008 1:51 PM
I do not believe that Squadron will be able to put his campaign policy into place. The opposition to funding the park with housing along the periphery is limited and among elected officials, non-existent except for the senator-elect. Yeah, the park has taken 30 years, but it's been picking up speed over the past ten.
Posted by: g man at September 29, 2008 1:52 PM
FSQR, I'm sure you are one of those people that thought Broken Angel should have been torn down by the city years ago. You are entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to ignore you while I continue to work towards completion on the project.
You can attack me and my projects as much as you like, but the more you focus on me on a thread about the Atlantic Yards debacle, the less you will seem to be defending a viewpoint and simply attacking anyone who opposes your opinion.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at September 29, 2008 1:55 PM
Bxgrl...am liking your attitude! Say it, grl!
You bring up a good point about subway service. The subway trains that go through Lafayette and Atlantic-Pacific Stations are all crowded at rush hour...sometimes horribly so. AND, if there is some "snafu" during the AM rush, the trains are packed to the gill. Really horrible. I never thought the Lafayette Station platform would every be as jammed as it is these days.
What would happen if 30,000 more daily commuters try to get on these trains?!
Posted by: BrooklynGreene at September 29, 2008 1:58 PM
FSQR,
Actually Ratner already received $50 million in funding for affordable housing. What do you think was paying all of those lawyers and PR companies? His own money???? Read the papers. FCR's dead broke.
Posted by: Johnny at September 29, 2008 2:06 PM
FSRQ wrote: "Not one single politician has been elected or unelected on a platform consistent with opposition to AY."
Really? Have you heard of Letitia James, Velmanette Montgomery, Major Owens and, in part, Hakeem Jeffries? Guess not.
furthermore your statement belies a political naivete. most pols in the city and state know that AY is and has been a disaster. but their silence is due to Ratner's power, not the merit sof the project.
Posted by: brokeland at September 29, 2008 2:53 PM
Letitia James backed Ratner no? She like the affordable housing units. But it doesn't look now like any of it will be built.
Most of us are glad. what saved us, apart from the terrific job the community did opposing this, is the cost of building over active train tracks. I can live with the hole, that is the way it has been for a hundred years. I predict it will stay that way for another fifty years.
Posted by: sam at September 29, 2008 4:06 PM
Shahn Andersen another wing nut through back to the NY 1975
Andersen = Pack rat architecture !!
Rarner = Scary and pathetic architecture !!
Rarner and Andersen deserve each other but why do we have to suffer?
SEE Broken Angel project brooklyn
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://emptystreets.net/media/images/20070111_brokenangel_01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://emptystreets.net/blog/%3Fcat%3D3&h=401&w=600&sz=152&hl=en&start=12&um=1&usg=__aIOuaEvwfrHqX_CotuCMuiOwzgQ=&tbnid=D-1rCQpF2Jq3OM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBroken%2BAngel%2Bproject%2Bbrooklyn%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
Posted by: mark swiss at September 29, 2008 4:28 PM
sam, just curious: how close is the hole to your house? are you really "liv[ing] with it"?
Posted by: i disagree at September 29, 2008 5:06 PM
"The land is not going to sit with a big hole in it for the next 50 years, it's too valuable and too central to the necessary growth of Bklyn."
I really hope you are correct, MM. Because that statement has been true for at least 50-60 years and to date nothing's happened there yet. Clearly, just because a project makes economic and strategic sense doesn't mean it will happen.
Posted by: East New York at September 29, 2008 5:19 PM
sam, for someone who was questioning the occupation of another poster and how one can find the time to post so frequently on Brownstoner, you sure seem to have a lot of time on your own hands today. What do YOU do for a living? Hypocritical much, Mr. Pot? Perhaps it's time for you to consider stepping away from the keyboard for just a bit, darlin'.
Posted by: Biff Champion at September 29, 2008 5:20 PM
I just hope Ratner cleans up before he leaves. Right now there's a lot of crap out on the street. It's rude. They should do a little sweeping on their way back out of town.
Posted by: Footprint Gazette at September 29, 2008 10:23 PM
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