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August 6, 2008

Where Should the Brooklyn Brewery Set Up Shop?

bkbrewery_0808.jpg
That was the subject of a segment on WNYC's Brian Lehrer Show yesterday. Brooklyn Brewery co-founder Steve Hindy lamented the lack of industrial space in the borough, a subject he's been pushing since publishing an account of his four-year search for new space with the Center for an Urban Future in June. Despite the dismal prospects, Hindy remains committed to brewing Brooklyn beer in, you know, Brooklyn. He mentioned Red Hook and Sunset Park as possibilities. Where do you guys think he should relocate?

You can listen to the segment here:

Bye Bye Brewery? [WNYC]
Brooklyn Brewery Chief Bemoans Lack of Industrial Space [Brownstoner]
HDR Brooklyn Brewery. Photo by Craig S.




Posted by lisa at 9:33 AM | Comments (40)
Categories: Industrial Space

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Comments

Red Hook or Sunset Park seem like the obvious choices.

Posted by: Whoops Johnny at August 6, 2008 9:41 AM

Seems Gowanus would be perfect if he can get his hands on something before it all disappears. There are still quite a few pockets, especially between 2nd and 3rd Avenue, that could house an operation of that size. And a beer garden in Gowanus would be cherry!

Posted by: WTerraceGirl at August 6, 2008 9:42 AM

Red Hook & Sunset Park are very good locations but what about Williamsburg?

Posted by: A ClintonHillLady at August 6, 2008 9:46 AM

The area that isn't quite sunset park and isn't quite the slope- in the 20s along the waterfront, where all the tile warehouses, home depot, and halal markets are. That puts him near red hook, near brownstone brooklyn, and near transportation (and right outside the battery tunnel) and near the proposed greenway. (and near my house.) He could build a beer garden. Right on the greater new york bay- good views, and no canal smell.

Posted by: Park Place at August 6, 2008 9:46 AM

AClintonHillLady, the brewery already is in Williamsburg, and there's no suitable space to expand there.

Posted by: z at August 6, 2008 9:54 AM

Franklin and Bergen. An old brewery building is there and I beleive it's on the market.

Posted by: Hal at August 6, 2008 10:04 AM

What about Bushwick? It would tie-in nicely w/the brewing history of the area. A restaurant/beer garden could do well there, too...surely there's ample commercial space there to support such an enterprise, right?

Posted by: Dyker Blights at August 6, 2008 10:07 AM

Define "shop".

Are we looking for a beer garden/boutique brewery location, similar to their set up in Williamsburg? Or do they actually want to brew large quantities of beer in Brooklyn? (In other words, is this about marketing or brewing?) Two very different scenarios, with very different answers. The former needs to be accessible to public transit, the latter to trucks. The former needs a modest (though by no means small) amount of space, the latter needs a large amount of space. Etc.

I suspect BB is looking for the former, which greatly limits the areas of opportunity.

Posted by: WBer at August 6, 2008 10:19 AM

I see a lot of what looks like warehouse (or at least usable) space in the Crown Heights/Prospect Heights area -- between Pacific/St. Marks and Bedford/Washington. Currently abandoned or used for auto-related industry.

Posted by: MacD at August 6, 2008 10:19 AM

I'd guess there are some places available in less desirable neighborhoods in eastern Brooklyn like East New York, or somewhere along the BQE as it heads out toward JFK. You know, places where those of us who read Brownstoner really don't go - which is why I don't know what's out there either. It's just a guess on my part.

Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at August 6, 2008 10:23 AM

WBer hit the nail on the head.

We all admire the aesthetics of older industrial areas such as Tribeca and Dumbo. My guess is that BB is looking to set up a boutique brewery with a (profitable) beer garden in such an area, or an area that has this potential. Some of the suggestions on this post would be fine for that purpose.

If, however, they are looking to truly scale up their operations, then few, if any, of the suggestions are suitable. Modern factory operations are a dreary affair, usually located in non-descript industrial parks that provide what they need: good transporation links, be it truck or rail, cheap utilities and a local labor market that has the requisite skills. Brooklyn offers few locations that meet this criteria.

Posted by: benson at August 6, 2008 10:30 AM

How about Philadelphia: its the new Brooklyn!

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at August 6, 2008 10:30 AM

WBer, I think it's about both, and there is the rub. It seems to me that Hindy is a relatively conservative businessman. That's not a criticism; it's probably why he has succeded. But at this point, if he wants to brew in New York and have a groovy beer garden and retail shop, he may have to take on a bunch of investors and debt and roll the dice on a location that gives him what he wants. Williamsburg and DUMBO are probably strongest, but they are going to be expensive. If he goes cheap, he's going to end up somewhere that won't enjoy the foot traffic that he wants/needs. In the meantime, Hindy has to stop whining in the press ... it's really unbecoming.

Posted by: altervoce at August 6, 2008 10:36 AM

Sunset Park! Sunset Park! Sunset Park! We're in need of a beer garden, and there's plenty of industrial space on the waterfront.

Posted by: raedog at August 6, 2008 10:37 AM

One Hanson Place would be perfect.

Posted by: Heather at August 6, 2008 10:38 AM

I think the stretch of Pacific Street between Grand and Classon in Prospect Heights would work well. The block is essentially chop shops and vacant industrial lots and it's on the doorstep of "Eli Karp's mini-city" Hello Living development. It's an area that was not part of the Prospect Heights landmarking initiative and it would be great to have something cool end up there instead of more condos. It might also help to promote more foot traffic on that stretch of Atlantic and help fledgling businesses like Frank White and the new fruit and vegetable store there.

Posted by: gigabutz at August 6, 2008 10:39 AM

I also think Gowanus is the obvious choice. In terms of the beer garden, there are many people to draw from on either side in Park Slope, Prospect Heights to the east and Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill to the west along with all the new residents moving into Downtown Brooklyn.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2008 10:40 AM

Connecticut
New Jersey
Delaware

Posted by: The Who at August 6, 2008 10:42 AM

And for god's sake, BUY THE BUILDING THIS TIME!!!

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2008 10:42 AM

Altervoce - they certainly could do both, just not at the same location. If the beer garden is profitable, it could continue with the same set up as in Williamsburg (hell, it could even continue in the same location). This would continue to be a small brewing operation with tours and the beer garden. Dumbo and Red Hook are also good options, as they have large space and are relatively accessible from Manhattan. (Steve could sponsor his own water taxi!)

The main brewing operations could then go to Sunset Park, East New York, or wherever land is cheaper and more plentiful. And, as 11217 says, buy the building!

Posted by: WBer at August 6, 2008 10:56 AM

i'm with the several people who suggested the edge of prospect heights. i think (parts of) bed-stuy could be a good choice, too.

Posted by: bebklyn at August 6, 2008 11:09 AM

With all the IKEA shoppers, Red Hook would be ideal for a show brewery like Guinness has at St James Gate in Dublin.

Posted by: SouthBklynPartisan at August 6, 2008 11:21 AM

How about in the Navy Yard?? I'm sure they could work out some sort of parking/access from Flushing with the BNYDC.

Posted by: werner at August 6, 2008 11:30 AM

sunset park! we need something such as that in the area.

the rainbow cafe is still for sale.....

Posted by: lala at August 6, 2008 11:42 AM

sunset park! we need something such as that in the area.

the rainbow cafe is still for sale.....

Posted by: lala at August 6, 2008 11:42 AM

They should set up shop where the Revere sugar refinery was in Red Hook. They should reach out to Joe Sitt, who's just letting that land sit fallow and catch IKEA's parking overflow right now. And that would be so much better for the neighborhood than the rumored Sam's Club or another generic big box. The space is big enough for them to brew and have a beer garden, it could be right on the water and would be between Fairway and IKEA and up the way from the ballfields. They'd have to build, though. As all but one building is demolished. But it's also an opportunity for some interesting modern architecture since we don't have landmarks to deal with. Maybe they could partner with a restaurant. It could be amazing. SBID might even pitch in. And then the IKEA park Esplanade could be continued throught that property and hook up with the one behind Fairway. That would be sweet.

Posted by: Combustiblegirl2 at August 6, 2008 11:58 AM

I think they realize they missed the boat once Ragegast Beer Hall opened up...They need two locations, one to brew an one to market...as for the marketing location, Dumbo would make sense...Galapagos already made the move, just need some discounted rent

Posted by: Remsen at August 6, 2008 12:12 PM

If it is intended to be a Boutique operation... what about on Fulton btw Grand and Downing. There is both land and commercial buildings that are vacant. It would provide flexibility for building a beer garden on the land that faces Fulton in an area less likely to offend residents with noise etc but still be virtually in the center of a gentrifying area. It would benefit from the Fulton reconstruction and the BID. It would be in an area where commercial rents have not increased significantly but is clearly about to benefit from a new base of residents that are looking for services. The existing buildings could be combined in a way that is quite interesting and retains character.

Posted by: Aussie at August 6, 2008 12:18 PM

Sunset Park between the BQE and the water somewhere in the 40s, and they should have an actual bar attached. It would be great to have a better place to drink than the Tiki Bar.

Posted by: sjbaird at August 6, 2008 1:01 PM

Aussie,

Kelso brewery already is in that area of Clinton Hill, on Waverly between Fulton and Atlantic. I think they were considering opening a beer garden for their separate brewery, but had issues with respect to zoning etc., I think (I could be completely wrong on this, just going on memory here).

I think that the Fulton Street area is a great idea.

Posted by: 1842 at August 6, 2008 1:25 PM

i know nothing about commercial property, but what about coney island?

Posted by: new2hood at August 6, 2008 1:26 PM

Another vote for the prospect heights/crown heights border area. If closer to atlantic, they could do well on stadium business (if that ever come to fruition), and the PH/CH neighborhood has been very receptive to beer gardens such as Franklin Park.

Posted by: arches at August 6, 2008 1:29 PM

Gowanus seems like the obvious choice to me too. The idea of Pacific makes good sense too.

Posted by: pmmtenement at August 6, 2008 3:22 PM

he obviously does not want to give up the customer base he's built up in williamsburg. out of the way hoods are probably not first on his list.

Posted by: wine lover at August 6, 2008 3:26 PM

PH/CH border, which is for all intent and purpose the western edge of Crown Heights.

Posted by: Fjorder at August 6, 2008 4:25 PM

Well he can join the club, wine lover. People all over NYC have had to move to neighborhoods that might not be their first choice.

If he wanted to stay so badly, he should have bought the building when he opened it...it probably went for a song back then.

That's the beauty of opening (or moving) something in an undiscovered neighborhood...it's cheaper. He waited till it was too late and now he's going to have to leave.

Happens everyday.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2008 4:28 PM

Domino site.

Posted by: bkkkkklyn at August 6, 2008 4:45 PM

"...or somewhere along the BQE as it heads out toward JFK. You know, places where those of us who read Brownstoner really don't go"

Ha - you clearly don't go there, or you'd know that that BQE doesn't go to JFK.

Sorry to be so snarky and pedantic, just thought it was funny.

As I understand it, the Brooklyn Brewery brews its flagship beers upstate - I mean Brooklyn Lager and Brooklyn Brown Ale, both of which are brewed in massive quantities and have worldwide distribution. The other beers - pilsener, weisse, pennant pale ale, chocolate stout, etc - are brewed in smaller quantities at the old brewery in Williamsburg.

So WBer's question is on point: do they want to move and somewhat expand the Williamsburg operation, or do they want to bring the large-scale brewing down to Brooklyn? (Can't listen to the interview at work...)

Posted by: sdrubbins at August 6, 2008 4:45 PM

Sunset Park! We've got open arms for a great place to hang out!

Posted by: penandink at August 6, 2008 6:03 PM

Yes, I'm with Combustiblegirl2. Right next to the Ikea at the old run down revere plant. It's on the water and has a ton of human traffic with money to spend due to Ikea and Fairway on either side of the area. It's truly an amazing spot.

Posted by: BrooklynWilly at August 6, 2008 9:15 PM

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