What’s it Like in Crown Heights?

Considering the entirety of CH, which the article stated was Atlantic Ave to the north, Empire Blvd to the south, Washington, east and Ralph, west, we are one of the largest neighborhoods in Brooklyn. Guvna is right to place the West Indian population front and center, as they make up the largest group of people in this large area. And within that community are subgroups composed of whatever island and country of origin, with at least 8 or so different countries, 3, maybe 4 major language groups, and a myriad of dialects in each. Add to that the African Americans, Hasidics, Hispanics, Arabs, Asians, and now, a growing white population, most of that under 40 years of age. That’s a lot of people.

What’s it like to live in Crown Heights? As Tikeshia Pierre, the 12 year resident said, “Crown Heights is very big, and some parts of ok, other parts aren’t.” Since one can say that about many other neighborhoods, I have to agree. My part of Crown Heights, the newly landmarked Crown Heights North area, is more than ok, but I am fully aware that other parts are not, as I am aware that we too, need improvement. I live smack in the middle between where both of the interviewees live, and as everyone knows, I am quite happy here, and plan to stay in Crown Heights North for the long run, I know it will continue its renaissance.

I think living here is like living in most parts of Brooklyn. You get up, go to work, come home and live in your home, and interact with family, neighbors and friends. There is little day to day drama here. I think about personal safety as much or as little as I do in midtown, or anywhere else. I go where I choose, when I choose, and spend a lot of time walking around my neighborhood at all hours, because I enjoy it. I am involved in the civic concerns of my neighborhood, and when I can, I worship in local churches. I food shop locally, and get most of what I want, and have no problem getting what I can’t elsewhere. Since I see all kinds of people on the train and bus doing the same, in different neighborhoods, I accept that for now, that is the way it is. I wish we had more amenities, but I’d rather have my deed to my house than a street full of restaurants. Amenities will come. I’ve never said Crown Heights was the perfect place for everyone, I don’t think it ever will be, and that’s not a bad thing, either. I’m glad I’m here.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 10:13 AM

Yeah, Petebklyn, that photo certainly is not indicative of the vast majority of Crown Heights blocks. I know the area pretty well, and I don't know where this is, at all. I'm guessing over on the western end of the neighborhood, where it meets Brownsville and East NY.

To get a true sense of the neighborhood, put the Crown Heights North House Tour on the calendar, Saturday, Oct. 4th.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 10:25 AM

If you are correct, ENY, technically, that's Bed Stuy, as it's on the north side of Atlantic Ave. Not that it matters, other than it is a particularly unflattering streetscape for an article that proposes to give a true sense of life in Crown Heights. The original article by Brooklyn Based used a photo from the Crown Heights North Association's (CHNA) website, which has a large archive of photos of the landmarked area. Even the least flattering of those would have been more indicative of most of the area, much more than this one. One would not do a story on Park Slope and then use a photo of the auto repair shops on 4th Ave to illustrate it.

Sorry, Lisa, but very poor choice of photo, here.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 10:44 AM

Thanks for the additional links, Lisa. A good selection and a nice cross section of a very large neighborhood.

NOP, great, as always, to tap into your memory well. Would love to see photos of those days.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 11:11 AM

I think bxgrl was exaggerating only to prove a point; that black families have been here, as property owners, for quite a while. Traditionlly black Brooklyn neighborhoods share that distinction, which actually was not true for much of Harlem, for a very long time. Absentee landlords played a far greater part in the ebb and flow of Harlem's fortunes.

I have met many homeowners who have been in their homes, albeit starting as children, for over 50 years. Interestingly enough, NOP, most of them do have a West Indian background, but assimilation was the rule of the day back then, and people were not as nationalistic about their point of origin to outsiders, as opposed to the ethnically based pride of newer immigrants now. You may just never have known.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 11:30 AM

Plenty going on, dittoburg, but not a slice of life in a typical Crown Heights block. It is not overly sensitive to want a more accurate portrayal. A block full of nondescript architecture and a row of curb cuts and front yard parking doesn't represent the majority of Crown Heights blocks. Neither would only a block of mansions, and nothing more, which would be easy to do, by the way. Something in the middle, as represented by the additional links offered, would have been better.

I would be equally disappointed if an article showing the people of Bushwick consisted only of tatooed, young white hipsters, as was the case in a recent magazine, as outed by Gawker, and posted here a couple of weeks ago.

However, Lisa addressed it, when brought to her attention, and I'm satisfied with her response, and won't be mentioning it again.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 11:46 AM

Sorry, dittoburg, but many people here do need visual aids. The general demographic of this site has never been to Crown Heights, and many believe nothing but the constant negative hype. Same goes for illustrations of Bed Stuy, PLG, and other areas, that most have never seen in person. As I said before, if an article about life in Park Slope only had a shot up 4th Ave as its illustration, the howls of protest would have shot this thread's posts past 100 by now. Park Slope is more than 4th Ave, and Crown Heights is not well represented by this photo.

I'm not reading anything into the choice of the shot, it probably was chosen to illustrate the juxtiposition of the old as observed by the new. I get that. But sometimes, one has to look at the historic (and hysteric) context, and perhaps be not just artistically interesting, but just simple and literal. I long for the day when that is not the case, and any interesting photo will do, but unfortunately, we ain't there yet.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 12:11 PM

I need Spellcheck! Sorry about the atrocious spelling, my thoughts are faster than my fingers.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 12:14 PM

Dittoburg, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that photo, or the street it portrays. However, it is NOT indicative of the majority of Crown Heights streetscapes. Please re-read my last post, as I believe I explain my position quite clearly.

If anyone had one photo to illustrate China, and they chose a back alley in Hong Kong, that would be a poor representation of the beauty of China, and has nothing to do with politics. Same case here, and 'nuff said.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 12:37 PM

Jingle mail, I don't get what your point is, either. I think that picking on bxgrl's humorous statement about the dawn of time, or the 50's is to miss the entire point of her statement - that black homeownership in this area is a long time thing. The original owners here were upperclass folk, but aside from leaving a fine legacy of beautiful architecture, which is still being maintained by aforementioned middle class black ownership, so what? As NOP, 1842, and others have said, neighborhoods change, rise and fall, and rise again. What is important NOW, is the rising again part, and that has been helped by the ministrations and care of several generations of people who have always valued and cared for our architectual treasures, to the best of their abilities and budgets. This is a good thing, and the reason others are now finding their way here.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 12:47 PM

Not thrilled with that either, bmfesq, but it certainly is not confined to Crown Heights, or Nostrand Ave. I followed a well dressed, white guy in midtown Manhattan who opened a brown paper bag with chips, a soda and a napkin, and watched him drop them all, one at a time, as he finished with them, while walking down the street.

General piggery and bad "fetchin' up" knows no race, age or nationality. I wish it were different. If everyone had been raised by my mother, the streets would be shining like glass. We would never had had the cojones to drop litter on the street. Public intolerance of this would help stop this, but unfortunately, fear of reprisal wins the day, and I am as chicken as everyone else, sad to say.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 1:00 PM

Jingle mail, you really need to relax and take a chill pill here. You do understand that bxgrl’s remark about black people owning in Crown Heights since the “dawn of time” was firmly in the camp of hyperbole, don’t you? I trust you understand hyperbole, an exaggeration meant only to prove a point, not a factual statement on the passage of time. Sheesh.

We all know that the homeowners of Victorian Crown Heights were wealthy, white men. Again, sowhat? If you want to be factual, and not given to hyperbole, then surely you know that before them, the original people on this land were the Lenape people. They were followed by the Dutch and the English. In fact, the land that was sold as lots to the builders and speculators who built much of the Crown Heights we see now was sold by the family of Lefferts Lefferts, who owned African slaves, who once worked his vast farmholdings. So many diverse people have left their mark on this community. We honor them, their histories and contributions, good and bad, and now we have this architecturally and culturally significant neighborhood to work with and preserve. That’s what’s important now. Bxgrl is proud of this neighborhood’s history, both 100 years ago, and more recently. She thinks, and I agree, that the contributions of those who lived here 50 years ago are as important to that history as that of the wealthy people who were also proud to call it home back then. All have a part to play in making Crown Heights a community we can be proud of.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 1:32 PM

And what are you contributing, jingle mail, other than more divisiveness? Bxgrl is as entitled to her opinions, and her way of expressing them, as anyone else here, many of whom are certainly more confrontational and downright nasty.

While you may not agree with her opinions, I hardly think that her use of an often used exaggeration like "the dawn of time" is worthy of this amount of discussion. If you didn't get it when she said it, her explanation following, done in good humor, certainly should have cleared it up. Seems to me that you are being overly confrontational on a very minor point in an otherwise decent conversation here.

I've been reading this site as long as you have, and disagree with people, both named and anonymous over the years, right and left. Most people here do. Bxgrl is passionate about her causes, and questions everything, as is her right. I have never seen her attack unless she is attacked first, and then she takes no prisoners. How is that different, or less full of facts, focus or logic, than anyone else? 90% of her posts are as innoculous and non- confrontational as anyone elses. Perhaps she needs to be thicker skinned about all this, but I think she is unfairly been chosen as the bad guy here, and it is totally unwarranted.

I've been wanting to say this for a while, so here's as good a place as any.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 2:19 PM

Chaka, the contributions of black folks to the history of New York is a worthy book. So much is not known, especially from the Colonial through Victorian ages.

Too many people think we came here unasked for, poor and unwanted, and have been in that same position for the last 300 years. Our history is part of the fascinating history of this great city.

More, please!

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 15, 2008 2:34 PM