Will Retail Continue to Trump Industry in Red Hook?

I confess to liking Ikea but that doesn't mean I think the whole area should now become big box stores. It's more important to keep a healthy balance of industry and community. the maritime industry used to be so much important and we should be building it up again and broadening NYC's economic base. there's enough waterfront property given over to fancy condos and parks. A working waterfront is crucial, especially now and the City should be doing everything to ensure that. Unfortunately our Mayor seems overly focused on finance and luxury housing, not industry. At least that seems to have been the trend since he got into office. I just think it plays up consumerism rather than broad based job creation.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 4, 2008 11:08 AM

BK- yes, I do. And the City needs it. If there were a better economy and job market, Red Hook residents, and other NYers, would have jobs so they could spend on retail goods. Pushing retail at the expense of industry is shortsighted.

How long will a retail store survive in an economy like this? And retail jobs are not the highest paying nor do they come with great benefits (if Sam's Club is like walmart you can bet on that). It's like a house of cards- the entire country has lost so much of its manufacturing base yet we are a consumer society. Look at what is going on in the economy today and tell me again why you think we need more stores rather than industry. Just my particular rant but how many more tchotckes , and dresses do we need to be able to buy? From companies who manufacture in China?

Posted by: bxgrl at August 4, 2008 11:21 AM

Disagree, DIBS- Not investing in industry is a big mistake. Expecting the Financial sector and Wall Street to have NYC's best interests at heart rather than inventing even more ways to make money at everyone else's expense, is like expecting WAMU to give me a house. There's a bigger picture here and if we have the money to invest in overblown monstrosities like AY, we can find the money to build industry. Ship repair, not ship building- different thing. Maybe its time to stop thinking just of the here and now, and look to the long term and think things out a little differently than we have been.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 4, 2008 11:54 AM

I didn't say that. Of course industry is about making money. It's about making a broad based economy, not one dependent on speculation and the inventive use of more and more fees. As far as industry vs. labor and the environment, I don't think anyone can say the financial market has been any better. But the point isn't about that- it's about being too dependent on one or 2 "industries" for lack of a better word. And the reality that people need jobs and we have eroded the solid manufacturing base that produces them. China, meanwhile, is doing very well. We're all to blame for it- all across the board from unions demanding more and more to companies wanting to squeeze more and more profit out to funnel to fewer and fewer people. NYC doesn't need more retail. New Yorkers need to be saving and investing and making money- not spending it on more imported garbage.

the hue and cry for more retail is slapping a bandaid on a gaping wound. I'm not going into my socio-economic theory again- I blistered my fingers yesterday with that :-) but with the chickens of bad financial lending coming home to roost, one has to wonder why and to what purpose. Our financial health depends on American shopping? That's nuts. With what money? Americans are maxed out. The presidential genius comes up with 600$ to "jumpstart" the economy? How about a real plan to bolster industries that will create jobs based on work, not playing with numbers on paper? How about thinking NYC can offer more and higher quality jobs than just waiting tables, cleaning office buildings, or ringing up cash registers for those of us not in real estate, construction, banking or investment? We used to.

so if you can explain to me why it's better to invest in more luxury condos, H & M's, and Chinese manufacturing plants, instead of putting some of that money into industry and manufacturing here,I'm here to listen.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 4, 2008 12:47 PM

you know benson- You must be a really stupid person since your only recourse is to resort to insults instead of trying to explain to me what you think is my error. But there seems to be quite a few shortsighted, small minded, money grubbing types on brownstoner who don't know how to disagree without resorting to spouting all manner of I-know-better-than-you garbage.

I can't account for why you're a schmuck without one iota of vision, social conscience, reading comprehension or capability in the realm of civil discourse, I can only attest to it.

You are obviously one of those sit on your ass do nothing slobs who cares about no one and nothing. Don't put words in my mouth and try again when your IQ goes from 2 digits to 3. I'll be waiting- probably forever.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 4, 2008 3:36 PM

well in case you haven't noticed, brownstoner wants comments. It's not a blog otherwise and since my opinion is the same as anyone elses you are free to not read it. At least I respect other people's opinions, and believe me there are quite a few I disagree with. Nor do I pontificate on every topic- since you're too stupid to notice, there are certain topics I am passionate about and I generally stick to them. But you obviously don't have the comprehension level to begin to understand what I said. And then, who the hell are you to take me to task? You're a damn salesman, for chrissakes. Or did you think that qualified you to be Albert Einstein?

As for my "utopian" vision- That's your ultra right wing faux intellectual interpretation based on whatever childhood traumas about communism you seem to have had. If you think you've read my "extolling glorious factories" anywhere I beg you to quote me. Other than that, get your hallucinations under control. Take your meds because you couldn't tell the difference between a utopian vision and a porno movie.

My dad was a garmento. Want to know what sweatshops were like? Believe it when I tell you some of the shops my dad worked in would have thought a factory on the waterfront was heaven. The unions put him out of business and he went bankrupt- want to talk about poor? Don't you dare tell me what I think or try to even tell me what I will or will not do. You are nowhere near educated or intellectual enough to do that. You don't like what I write? tough. don't read it.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 4, 2008 9:03 PM

Or telling them to open manufacturing plants in the US, like Ikea did. I read the article too.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 4, 2008 11:15 PM

The whole point of this thread (and the asbestos thread the other day) was an opportunity to discuss ideas and possibilities. More importantly, it was a chance to express viewpoints about industry, and the economy, not produce a manifesto. And sure, many of us don't have the backgrounds you do, although a lot of us have a range of experience and brains you would neither credit nor respect.

If I didn't want to learn about why manufacturing is or is not feasible, I wouldn't have posted. Unlike you, I am always aware that anything I post is my only opinion, and I don't require anyone to agree with it in order to have a civil discussion. But it takes a mature adult to do that and maturity seems not to be your strong suit.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 5, 2008 11:03 AM