« Monday Links When Lowering A Home's Price Doesn't Sell It »

August 18, 2008

The Asian Diaspora Reaches Downtown Brooklyn

Neighborhoods with large Asian populations—Sunset Park, say, or Flushing, Queens—are seeing a demographic shift. Kids from those neighborhoods are moving away, as children are wont to do, but they're not moving far, according to the New York Times. Developers and brokers say the next generation of young New York-born Asian-Americans is heading to downtown Brooklyn and Long Island City, rapidly hip-ifying areas with many a high-end condo project to be found. Asian-Americans make up 15 to 50 percent of some of those sales; at the Toren (above), half of those who have signed contracts are Asian-American. These neighborhoods are not expected to turn into mini-Chinatowns, though—those headed for high-rise land are more likely to assimilate, says The Times. And, hopefully, enough members of the elder generation will stick around Sunset Park to keep Brooklyn Chinatown Booming.

Trackback Pings

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/5926

Comments

by hip-ifying you mean gentrifying?

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 9:15 AM

I don't need Downtown to turn into another Chinatown, but I'll certainly take a nice Asian market or two, and some decent Chinese and Thai restaurants... We've had to settle for Fresco Chinese-Mexican for way too long now. And the getting-nastier-by-the-day Asian restaurants on Montague could use some competition to relight the fire under their collective rear ends

Posted by: Beau Guest at August 18, 2008 9:18 AM

Thank God they're "assimilating" We wouldn't want another Yellow Plague!!! :)

I find the whole discussion about Asians and how quickly it turns into restaurant talk a bit "r" !!!

However, Bed Stuy could use a good Chinese restaurant.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 9:43 AM

DIBS- too true. And Crown Heights could use one also. And Thai. However a friend just found a nice Thai restaurant that will deliver to Crown Heights so at least we've got that much, although I suspect your area has quite a few good restaurants of all types.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 18, 2008 9:55 AM

bxgrl...do you think that Thai restaurant will deliver to Bed Stuy? Whats the name and where is it. sawasdee krab. kop khun ma krab

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 10:19 AM

It's a less known aspect of Toren that many of the homes have been owned by Asian families since the dawn of time (well, maybe slightly less), and many of these families are today the core of business and professional people who have stabilized the area and gotten landmark status for Toren.

Posted by: jingle mail at August 18, 2008 10:32 AM

What I found most interesting was that Toren is already 50% sold out.

I do like the way it's looking and think it's the best of what's being built in Downtown, in terms of new construction.

Posted by: 11217 at August 18, 2008 10:47 AM

Jingle mail, I find your use of the term "dawn of time" in reference to Asians at the Toren, to be wrong and misleading, according to your own comments to bxgrl on Friday in the Crown Heights post.

"You sound like a revisionist and i believe in being historically accurate." if I may quote you.

I'm sure you find the whole thing funny now, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If it's funny enough to mock here, you shouldn't have wasted so much cyber time ragging on her use of a silly, exaggerated phrase. It certainly detracted from what was an interesting and informative discussion. Congratulations.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 18, 2008 10:49 AM

drove past it the other day- I'm not a huge fan of modern, but what I saw of the skin really looks beautiful. It should be really spectacular when it's done.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 18, 2008 10:49 AM

DIBS- I'll get the name for you (please don't tell me you speak fluent Thai in addition to everything else you do well!)

thanks MM- I can see jm is going to do this all the time and he can have his fun. It only makes him look bad. I suggest you, dave and I go out for Thai food some night! (you too 11217!)

Posted by: bxgrl at August 18, 2008 10:53 AM

Be careful what you wish for. Willaimsburg has a thousand Thai restaurants. What about Burmese or Indonesian or Cambodian? not a hint.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 11:16 AM

speaking for myself I'd love any and all of them in my neighborhood.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 18, 2008 11:42 AM

I don't think the Asians class mentioned in the NYT article will be doing food deliveries in your nabes any time soon. They're your more "uppity" Asians professionals and probably more of internationalists in terms of investment and money.

Posted by: newbie12222 at August 18, 2008 12:38 PM

No one was referring to the young professionals moving into downtown Brooklyn. However restaurant owners and managers are business professionals and many of the younger professionals in investment and finance come from families who ran their businesses well enough to be able to afford to send them to great schools. As a group Asians are some of the hardest working, most family-oriented people around and their history and culture is second to none.

I really question your use of the word "uppity" but a quick reading of some of your other posts shows you to be rather focused on race and a little paranoid about it to boot.

wouldn't it be great if people just stopped worrying about what you looked like and cared more about what you can accomplish?

Posted by: east river at August 18, 2008 12:59 PM

You all forgot to insult the Koreans. How could you?!

And as for Asians, you need to remember the South Asians too.

Posted by: 11233 at August 18, 2008 1:11 PM

Please, please tell me they are not still eating our beloved cats and dogs! Savages.

Posted by: ILuvDeadNimbys at August 18, 2008 1:13 PM

While still acknowledging Daveinbedstuy's not unreasonable remark, the American love affair with Asian cuisine really is a tribute to the civilizations that produced it.

Posted by: east river at August 18, 2008 1:42 PM

"As a group Asians are some of the hardest working, most family-oriented people around and their history and culture is second to none."

I beg to differ.

Posted by: Just Wondering at August 18, 2008 1:46 PM

yeah, well you would.

Posted by: east river at August 18, 2008 1:49 PM

Just Wondering - whats your evidence? The last census showed asians to have (a) the highest average level of education achieved and (b) the highest average household income out of all races in the US. Achieving well in education pretty much requires family support (even if only providing a quite room to study) and having the highest average household income requires working hard does it not?

Not to say that just working hard will lead to a high income.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 1:54 PM

Hey Mr. ILuvDeadNimbys...nice first post. So, tell me which you rather have..Koreans still eating our beloved dogs/cats or countless hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi women & children dying under American reckless adventure??

Posted by: newbie12222 at August 18, 2008 1:56 PM

dittoburg- you might want to read his post at the end of the what's it like in crown heights thread to get a bit more perspective on his thinking.

Posted by: east river at August 18, 2008 1:57 PM

I believe Asians in the U.S. commit the least amount of crime of any race also, Dittoburg.

Posted by: 11217 at August 18, 2008 1:58 PM

wow- didn't see that one coming. Korean cuisine vs the deaths of Iraqi women and children. Although I am certainly in agreement about the US being reckless and wrong to be Iraq, I don't see the connection you're making here.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 18, 2008 2:03 PM

bxgrl- There are some NGO estimates that over 600,000 Iraqi civilian lives have perished since the War began. But here we are discussing about Korean savagery. How ironic, no??

Posted by: newbie12222 at August 18, 2008 2:26 PM

So, did the article have a negative impact or positive impact on Downtown Brooklyn and Long Island City?

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 2:35 PM

I happen to think that there are many people who as a group are very hard working and industrious - Mexican, Jews, etc... Many groups are also very family oriented - Samoans, Continental Africans, Arabs, etc... Many groups also have high incomes - Whites?

As far as whose culture is first or second. I tend not to put peoples cultures and history in rank order. They have all contributed to the betterment and wrecked havoc in the world.

Yes, the Asians have done extremely well for themselves and they should be proud of that but I do not feed into the model minority. They are actually the majority of the people on the planet and therefore should be doing proportionately better. There is a nasty underside to that culture that many of us never get to see. Human sex slave trafficking, indentured servitude in exchange for a free ride to the U.S. in a Walmart freighter, extortion of Asian business owners by Asian gangs in Flushing and Sunset, etc...

Posted by: Just Wondering at August 18, 2008 2:37 PM

Korea is a crappy country. Been there a few times. I can't believe eating dogs and cats is defended by the likes of out of touch individuals here. We're not in asia and as the saying goes, "When in Rome...."

Dog murderers, cat murderers... I can't believe my neighborhood is turning into "Little Asia?".

Posted by: ILuvDeadNimbys at August 18, 2008 2:41 PM

In response to Just Wondering:

would say the New York Times article is trying to feed us into the model minority?

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 2:44 PM

"I happen to think that there are many people who as a group are very hard working and industrious - Mexican, Jews, etc... Many groups are also very family oriented - Samoans, Continental Africans, Arabs, etc... Many groups also have high incomes - Whites?"

Ok, but you don't think aisans are. Why not?

I do agree about the futility of ranking cultures in general terms, but saying second to none doesn't actually say the are number one - it says they don't play second fiddle. Too many idioms perhaps.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 2:44 PM

"I can't believe eating dogs and cats is defended by the likes of out of touch individuals here"

I see you're just trolling as no-one has defended it.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 2:45 PM

"New York Times article is trying to feed us into the model minority"

They eat bloggers too?

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 2:49 PM

Yes, along with cats and dogs. HA! This is hilarious.

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 2:51 PM

I live in Dumbo and we have a lot of asians here. I'd be curious to know the demographic makeup of Dumbo vs Downtown Brooklyn.

Confucius says, "Be wary of the meat you eat at Chinese restaurant. It just might be Fido."

Posted by: CookieCutterBrownstone at August 18, 2008 3:04 PM

"we have a lot of asians here"

From your "possessory" language I'm assuming the worst. Must be difficult living in the 21st century with that mindset.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 3:10 PM

Don't people usually say "second to none" in the sense of being equal, not necessarily superior? That's always been my interpretation. There was a time in this country when Asians were completely looked down upon. That's well documented. I think the point east river was making was based on that history.

In any case mentioning the good things about one culture or another doesn't mean they're perfect or without issues. why can't we say Asians in this country are a very successful, hard working, family oriented group (it's true), without then feeling obligated to mention their problems? No one is implying they are better than anyone else, and it shouldn't be taken that way. But at least give credit where credit is due.

But I agree, newbie, compared to what's happening in Iraq and other countries around the world, anything being discussed here is pretty frivolous. Maybe not to us individually, but in the overall scheme of things whether you've got granite countertops or painted over the tenant's horrible color scheme to get a higher price is vastly unimportant.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 18, 2008 3:11 PM

Ignorances on this board is boundless. Koreans historically & culturally ate dogs, not cats. They ate from their cultural belief that eating dog meats somehow strengthens and speeds physical recovery from sickness and surgeries. Secondly, consumption of dogs have been banished by the gov't but then there's always the underworld markets to serve up.

Posted by: newbie12222 at August 18, 2008 3:12 PM

I never said that I didn't think that Asians were not hardworkers or family-oriented or didn't have high incomes. I questioned the need to place them in rank order and I thne simply stated that there were other groups with the same attributes.

BTW, I am a 'her' not a 'him' and reading my post on Crown Heights lead you to believe what? I consider myself to be American. All of my life people have annoyed me by asking me "what are you?" because they can't figure it out and therfore can't box me into any of those categories.

Posted by: Just Wondering at August 18, 2008 3:17 PM

i read that article and what i first thought about was that it's interesting that the young asian yuppies are choosing new construction over pre-war. considering that they are such a growing and financially powerful segment of the NYC population, seems like this is good news to condo developers.

weird how you all went to all this stereotyping.

Posted by: wine lover at August 18, 2008 3:31 PM

"asian yuppies"

So after stereotyping them as yuppies you wrote the following sentence with a straight face:
"weird how you all went to all this stereotyping."

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 3:37 PM

bxgrl,

second to none

better than anything or anyone else. The hotel's restaurant is second to none.

See also: none, second

Cambridge Dictionary of American Idioms © Cambridge University Press 2003

Posted by: Just Wondering at August 18, 2008 3:37 PM

New Construction: pool, roof decks, library, garage, gym.

Its hard to pick over those great amenities, right?

It should be an exciting time for Downtown Brooklyn. The area is changing for the better.

Lets welcome the DIVERSITY!!!

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 3:45 PM

Just wondering- that may be but I've never used it that way and never heard it used quite that way. I speak in vernacular and if you check that Crown Heights thread post you'll see I've been beaten unmercifully about the head and shoulders for it :-)

Other than that I honestly don't see where anyone tried to say Asians are superior to anyone else. The reaction initially was to a post describing them as "uppity"- a put down if ever there was one.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 18, 2008 3:49 PM

If you have read my previous posts and had a better grasp of the various dialects of modern English you would have realized that I'm European not asian.

Your asian insecurity is interesting. I'm wondering if you are old enough to have been involved in a conflict in asia that has left you so emotionally affected.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 3:50 PM

so back to the actual building...

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 3:59 PM

meh..

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 4:00 PM

I think it's pretty fabulous that they have a library. The building just looks so beautiful if I ever had the money and wanted to live in a modern building I would want to be in one like this. Oh well.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 18, 2008 4:04 PM

yeah, love the blue... but it can use a little yellow in it. Ha! Get it?

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 4:07 PM

Once again I do not have an insecurity about Asians nor have I been emotionally affected by them anyone else for that matter as a result of a conflict in Asia or otherwise. I merely posted my opinion, without reverting to personal attacks and you are free to disagree. I did review severalof your posts and I see that you often rely on argumentum ad hominem. I will not. I will jsut add that my command of the English language both vernacular and liturgical, as well as two other languages, is excellent.

Posted by: Just Wondering at August 18, 2008 4:09 PM

where's Wonton when we need him???????

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 4:18 PM

One ton of what?

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 4:20 PM

one ton of pork dumpling filling!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 4:21 PM

Anybody here ever been to patpong in Bangkok?? We should have that here in brooklyn!!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 4:23 PM

Just Wondering - I wasn't responding to you. I was was responding to a disgusting post that apparently has been deleted by the moderator. I'm interested that your command of liturgical English is excellent. In the vein of argumentum ad hominem - are you the poster otherwise known as Prodigal Son....?

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 4:23 PM

DaveinBedstuy - Patpong? this is Brownstoner! The Amsterdam version would therefore be more appropriate.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 4:26 PM

so when is Whole Foods going to open up in Downtown Brooklyn?

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 4:28 PM

Haaaaa onevalianeffort!!!! I think we have abetter chance of getting Patpong-style go-go bars!!!

So which bars did you go to dittoburg?? I hope not just the Kings Castle chain!!!! Tawan? Barbiery???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 4:34 PM

bxgirl, don't worry. words mean whatever you want them to mean. the world revolves around you and you are never wrong.

Posted by: jingle mail at August 18, 2008 4:40 PM

or we can hit up a pinkberry, starberry, mangoberry, dingleberry, pinkeye, yoberry, chunkyberry... down on Court St... How much fake yogurt can you have?!!

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 4:40 PM

Just wondering, you're reacting to positive comments about Asian culture as though it's insulting to other cultures or groups. Maybe that's the way you think- I don't and remarks should be read in the context of this thread. Perhaps my meaning would have been more clear to you had I said "Asian civilizations and cultures are the equal of any other" but you are reading far too much and too literally into what I posted. And despite your implication to the contrary, the Asians I have met and worked with are some of the hardest working and most family-oriented people I know. Notice- not the only ones. Some.

Posted by: east river at August 18, 2008 4:41 PM

and there is also hard core asian gang crime too...so lets all relax.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 4:44 PM

I'd rather have a Fairway than a Wholefoods.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 4:46 PM

Awww- thanks so much jingle mail.You finally see the light :-)

Posted by: bxgrl at August 18, 2008 4:49 PM

Yes the yogurt wars are getting violent. Milk is being spilled.

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 4:53 PM

many asians are lactose intolerant onevalianteffort. I think thats very insensitive of you :)

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 4:56 PM

I don't think there's milk that stuff. Its made out of space age insulation. I believe NASA sold them the recipe.

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 5:00 PM

I don't think there's milk in that stuff. Its made out of space age insulation. I believe NASA sold them the recipe.

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 5:03 PM

"American Cheese" is made from plastic.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 5:03 PM

Noooo dittoburg!!!! I love those white trash grilled cheese sandwiches of Kraft Singles on wonder bread. I bet they get those Kraft singles individually wrapped in China.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 5:06 PM

Its 5pm. Is everyone packing up from their busy day of blogging at work? Who's hard working?

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 5:08 PM

I prefer to call it multitasking.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 5:11 PM

I'll be at work later in the evening when the Asian stock markets are open and you're all watching the Olympics and wondering if all those Chinese athletes are of age.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 5:13 PM

yes, I am blogging on other sites as well.

Multi-blogging!

so is the Apple store going to open up in Toren or what?

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 5:16 PM

whats the big deal with the age issue?

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 5:22 PM

whats the age issue????

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 5:23 PM

the wondering if all those Chinese athletes are of age...

Posted by: onevalianteffort at August 18, 2008 5:26 PM

there's been some discussion as to whether or not some of the Chinese female gymasts are of the required minimum age by the IOC

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 18, 2008 5:27 PM

According to the papers, their lives aren't that easy either. One of them hasn't been allowed home in about a year, I think she said, and hasn't been allowed to see her family. The other thing is that young girls who do so much rigorous athletic training don't develop as quickly as other teens and possibly they look younger because of that. Although seeing some of their faces it's difficult to believe that they are as old as 16.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 18, 2008 5:37 PM

Brownstoner and crew: Deleteing my prior post only highlights your intolerance to differing opinions from your own which will surely hasten the homogenization of this site to the far, far, far left liberal armchair warrior privileged mentality. I find my description ironic since my general views tend to favor moderate left to the independent thought process.

Critism. I read about the criticism of Italian guidos, inbreeding rednecks, asymmetrical haircut hipsters, homicidal Hasidic drivers, and so forth, on this very site. But, criticism about Asian people eating dogs and cats in the United States gets a post deleted! Shame on you! Your reasons are unjustified. If you can't handle this, it would be better if just hand-over the responsibility of ownership of this site to someone that can.

Posted by: CookieCutterBrownstone at August 18, 2008 5:52 PM

" But, criticism about Asian people eating dogs and cats in the United States gets a post deleted!"

Oh so thats why your post was deleted. Unlike all the other posts referencing the same above.

Perhaps it was deleted, inter alia, because of its profanity and juvenile and inappropriate reference to reproductive organs?

Posted by: dittoburg at August 18, 2008 6:12 PM

Thanks for the explanation dittoburg. And no I am not Prodigal Son. Again I am a girl! East River, I took the post literally because there was no other way for me to take it. I clarified, you understood. You clarified, I understand.

BTW, when you study linguistics, vernacular and liturgical are the technical terms used for both the 'low' and 'high' forms of a language. As in High German and Low German or Castillian Spanish and regional vernaculars, or Haitian Creole and French. It is no longer PC though to say that one form is more "proper" than another.

Posted by: Just Wondering at August 18, 2008 6:39 PM

Ok- I find that fascinating. I always thought "liturgical" had a specifically religious connotation. Is it because more formal language was used in religious ceremonies or services?

Posted by: east river at August 18, 2008 6:56 PM

Exactly. It has been a slow day at work but I am out. Good night all.

Posted by: Just Wondering at August 18, 2008 7:02 PM

I guess this is what we get from the Times now that they've reached their limit of articles about white people moving to Bed Stuy and Crown Heights.

Posted by: BrooklynLove at August 18, 2008 7:26 PM

Diu! I take break from Brownstoner for one day and look what happpens.

Hey, it's okay, I'm not offended. I'm used to being misunderstood by clueless gweilos.

In the great spirit of Asian friendship, CookieCutter, Just Wonder and all the rest of you are invited to come over to my new DUMBO hi rise for dinner. Bring your pets, too, they will be most welcome!

I'll do ALL the cooking...

Posted by: WonTon at August 18, 2008 7:29 PM

there's already a mostly asian high rise by gold street (w/ some sort of shuttle service), but guess these new buyers are the gen y/z w/ $ jobs

Posted by: lting77 at August 19, 2008 1:24 AM

Wonton...i like the use of the "diu" its meaning unbeknownst to anyone and therefore perfectly acceptable!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2008 7:56 AM

I would assume that most of the Asians moving in are yuppies - like everyone else on this blog. I doubt it's going to be new immigrant families so there won't be opening any restaurants in the neighborhood.

At least they'll be more asian women to date in the area.

Posted by: phamine1 at August 20, 2008 3:19 PM

« Monday Links When Lowering A Home's Price Doesn't Sell It »

August 18, 2008

The Asian Diaspora Reaches Downtown Brooklyn

Trackback Pings

Comments

Post a comment

Latest Restaurant Additions