House of the Day: 1094 Park Place

Let's clear up some misconceptions, here.

Owners put the house on sale because of having to relocate for career reasons. They really would have wanted to stay, so it must have been the employment opportunity of a lifetime. They were in the middle of constructing the wine cellar in the basement. This is definately NOT a flip job.

While you can see the tops of the Albany Houses from here, they are scarcely "around the corner". People are assuming that the AH are right next door, and that is not the case. They are no closer to this house than some houses in Boerum Hill, which sell for much more, and are not half the house this is.

To the right of this house is a gorgeous synagogue turned church, to the left is the beginning of a row of limestones. This block, although it begs for some trees, is very quiet and safe, and is also a part of an extremely watchful and active block association. To assume that thugs from the park, or anywhere else, are just lurking like wolves ready to pounce, is a tad alarmist and paranoid. There is constant traffic on Kingston, which is on a bus route, and the area is boringly quiet.

DOW, I find your assertion that an owner could not feel safe walking around the corner to be absolutely ridiculous, and not based on fact. And the fact that there are bars on the windows is also a red herring. I would bet every reader with a ground floor room has bars on the window, why should this house be held to a different standard. Those bars in all of the brownstones in Bklyn weren't put on yesterday, they were put on almost 100 years ago. The implication that thugs from the park, or anywhere else, are just waiting to pounce the minute you step out into the street is alarmist claptrap. Kingston Avenue is well traveled, a busy bus route, and the whole area is boringly quiet. I wish people would actually go somewhere and see what they are talking about before spouting off on the safety of places they are unfamiliar with. This block is part of a multiblock block association which is extremely active, vigilant and aware.

The fact that yesterday's forclosure house is a block away is also meaningless. Does that mean that the house in Ditmas Park that was foreclosed on a couple of months ago renders Ditmas Park an unfit neighborhood? Let's cut the double standards, here. FWIW, that foreclosure block is a very stable, vital block, with a strong community commitment to maintain it as such. A foreclosure, especially where there may have been some short sale funny business, can happen anywhere.

The fact that this house is move in ready, an architectural gem on a large plot of land, in a location that is just fine, makes it worthy of the price. I don’t say that often, I am very conservative about Crown Heights prices. But I’ve been in the house, and in the neighborhood, and I think it is an insult to offer $800K like this is some gut job SRO. This house is worth $1.2 million dollars, and I have no doubt someone will agree with me, and buy it.
To the right of this house is a gorgeous synagogue turned church, to the left is the beginning of a row of limestones. This block, although it begs for some trees, is very quiet and safe, and is also a part of an extremely watchful and active block association. To assume that thugs from the park, or anywhere else, are just lurking like wolves ready to pounce, is a tad alarmist and paranoid. There is constant traffic on Kingston, which is on a bus route, and the area is boringly quiet.

DOW, I find your assertion that an owner could not feel safe walking around the corner to be absolutely ridiculous, and not based on fact. And the fact that there are bars on the windows is also a red herring. I would bet every reader with a ground floor room has bars on the window, why should this house be held to a different standard. Those bars in all of the brownstones in Bklyn weren't put on yesterday, they were put on almost 100 years ago.

The fact that yesterday's forclosure house is a block away is also meaningless. Does that mean that the house in Ditmas Park that was foreclosed on a couple of months ago renders Ditmas Park an unfit neighborhood? Let's cut the double standards, here. FWIW, that foreclosure block is a very stable, vital block, with a strong community commitment to maintain it as such. A foreclosure, especially where there may have been some short sale funny business, can happen anywhere.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 28, 2008 3:28 PM

Sorry about the repeats in my post. I was cutting and pasting from Word, and I made a boo boo.

Bklynlove, I'm sure the owner of this house will sit on it until doomsday before accepting the insulting offer of 700+K. If they could afford to fix it up in the high end manner that they did, they aren't that hungry. No one would say that about a house in Park Slope.

"Those words: never set foot in....bring a lot of meaning with them.
Why have people not set foot there? is it too distant? no.
Is it difficult to get there? no.
Is it considered unsafe and unsavory? bingo!"

I don't know why I feel I have to answer such nonsense, but here goes - the only thing unsavory is the constant assertion that this neighborhood is the 8th level of hell. It is not. But, if you want to think so, please by all means, continue to do so. That way those who choose to buy this house, or any other, will be able to so without the price tags associated with "better" neighborhoods, and laugh all the way to the bank. Quite safely, I might add.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 28, 2008 3:39 PM

I am well aware of what foreclosures do, Brooklynlove, but comparing a 3 story, 18' limestone row house to this mansion on a huge lot is stretching the comps, even for the most conservative appraiser. There is only one of these, and is therefore special, unique, and worthy of a different standard of pricing.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 28, 2008 3:43 PM

DOW, I don't argue that there is crime, or that some blocks are better or worse than others. Kingston and St Marks is not the worst place, but I will admit that that part of Kingston is not the most picturesque. 2 blocks up at Park, where this house is located is very different. There is no real retail presense there because of the apartment buildings and the church. But whatever....people will think what they want.

I do get my back up at your insinuation that my standards of safety and acceptability are somehow lower than someone from a "better" neighborhood. I'd like you to know that I, and all of my neighbors, expect the same standards of safety as anyone else. My expectations of living to see another day are the same no matter how much money I have, and I would not live anywhere that I did not feel safe.

The radiators are quite cool, and are original, Townhouselady. They are cast iron. It is odd that they are just sitting in the middle of the room like that. I would be interested in seeing them in the context of period decor. I'll have to look very carefully in those Dover books with period photos. If I ever see a reference, I'll post.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 28, 2008 6:11 PM

Gary Cooper, as much as I want to go upside your head on several points, it's late, and I'm not in the mood.

Oh, hell, why not? You've easily beat DOW and a couple of others for the ignorant post of the day award.

"This is an haute bourgeoise home. It costs a fortune to heat, furnish, and maintain." Have you actually been in here? It is no larger than most 20’ brownstones, has as many windows as a corner or semi-detached brownstone, and takes no more or less furniture than one’s tastes require. The latest owners also replaced the windows, sealed up the place to a T, and installed a new HVAC system, so it is probably more heat efficient than 60% of the brownstones owned by people on this blog.

“I don't see any future for it except conversion to small apartments.” - You haven’t seen it, so how can you make that statement? Not to mention such conversion is totally unsuited to the layout of the property, which was just recently totally renovated. But you don’t know that because you have no idea of what you are talking about.

“an affluent family would not want to live in this neighborhood (the rich are very sensitive about keeping their wealth and not being robbed)” - Uh huh. I got a newsflash for you…affluent people have lived here for years, and affluent people are buying in now. They may not look rich to you, because they are not white, or young, or flashy, but they are here. And who made you the spokesperson for the affluent, anyway?

“So it is unlikely that a rich family would live here,” – You are so wrong. Not everyone has your narrow set of standards of wealth, or desireability. Why not a wealthy gay couple, or a black or Latin family with 2 highly paid professional wage earners? Why not a wealthy white family that wants a beautiful house that only needs to have your suitcases unpacked in order to be done? Maybe all of them like the neighborhood now, and have the vision to see an even better neighborhood, and know that this house will be selling for $3 million in 5 years?

“The house is a goner. whoever pays a million for it will need to recover that investemet by chopping it up or by razing it and building a quickie condo.” – NOT. First of all, this area is going to be landmarked soon, so the razing ain’t gonna happen. Secondly, I think I’ll save this remark so I can trot it out in a few years, and remind people of their foolishness and short sightedness. This house will be a goner, because it will be gone, sold to someone who knows exactly what they have, and it’s not a tear down. I plan on sitting on their porch with them having a good laugh over your so called prediction. We'll lift a nice, expensive glass of bubbley your way.

Cheers!

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 29, 2008 12:41 AM

So, Gary Cooper, would you like us all to genuflect and tug our hats in respect to your higher station? Sometime, when you want to come down from your mountaintop, I'll let you in on the reality of communities down below in the valley.

I am not unfamiliar with the affluent, I deal with them every day in business, I went to college with them, many of my friends are "them", and some of "them" live in this community. Contrary to what you espouse, not everyone is hung up on appearances or impressing everyone with what community they live in. Many like living in communities where they share connections of race and culture, or for such impossible reasons as they liked a particular house. Everyone black with money does not head for the Upper East Side or Westchester. And everyone white with money is not comfortable with living in gilded ghettos of privelege. Let's just leave it with different strokes, shall we?

Spare me your condescension, ok? "I really do, I think it's quaint." Whatever respect I give any poster went out the window with that remark. Since your affluence has spared you the indignity of hanging with us po' folk, unless you are patting us on the head, kindly refrain from making remarks on a house, or a part of town that you wouldn't lower yourself to be in, you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

As to the social opinions of Montrose Morris, architect, so what? I chose his moniker because he was one of the greatest architects Brooklyn ever knew. He built many of his best and most important buildings in Crown Heights and Bed Stuy, and I get to walk by some of them every day. He helped make these communities the architectural wonders that they are, and his legacy is helping to insure the renaissance of both communities. If an interest in his name and career should happen from this blog, research will lead to Bed Stuy and Crown Heights, and fair and open minded people may discover that we have much to offer.

What have you got, besides blistering condescension and uniformed opinions? Reality? I don't think so.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 29, 2008 10:48 AM

Mais oui, je pense qu'il, Gary Cooper.

I think you just can't help it. Everything you said came out in a condescending manner: you moved to Brooklyn, like you somehow lowered your standards to do so, you REALLY like the idea of Crown Heights being taken back by the middle class (we never lost it, we've been here all along, thank you). You just LOVE the IDEA that affluent black and Hispanic families opt to buy homes in Brooklyn - gee, thanks, so glad you approve. And the topper, you are right to dream and to think that your neighborhood will, one day, be known for something other than Hassidic-Black antagonism. It's hardly a dream, it's a reality. Now.

Not that you really know, because you are unaware of all of the work that has been done in the overall community. Not that it matters that the riots took place in a different part of CH, Crown Heights South, which is as different from Crown Heights North as night and day. Not that it matters that you do not see the constant renovation going on here, and the growing numbers of new people here, along with the old, enjoying the park, walking the streets without fear, and just living. It's so much easier to just sit in another neighborhood and make pronouncements and bless us with your approval. Merci.

Is it me, I'm sorry you feel you have to leave. Thanks for a pretty accurate description of the block, although I disagree with the conclusions drawn by you for not seeing the homeowners, or the presence of the fence, which is in the same place as a really crappy one that this one replaced, or your conclusion that a yuppy family would find it dangerous. I respect your opinion because you have a bird's eye view, and actually live here. I've never said this was Eden, just that it's not Hell, either.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 30, 2008 2:14 AM

Is it me, please re-read my answer to you. I clearly said that I disagree with the CONCLUSIONS drawn by the owners' absence, not that you didn't actually see them. How can I dispute you never saw them? You live across the street, I don't. The conclusion that could be drawn, especially by the haters, is that the owner was afraid to come out, not the more obvious reasons, that your schedules may have been different, or that she worked from home, or any number of innocuous reasons. I've got neighbors I haven't seen all summer, but it’s only changes in schedules that make us miss each other.

I'm not going to argue with your quality of life issues, either. As I said, you live right there, I don't. I know several people on your block and around the corner on Hampton, and I know that they are constantly lobbying for better policing of the park, especially after dark. I am not such a cheerleader that I can’t see the need for change and betterment. That has always been my mantra. Obviously, the house and/or the neighborhood aren’t for everyone, and I never said it was. That doesn’t make it hell house.

My ardent defense of this house, and the area, is because of the knee jerk reaction to it by people who make judgment calls based on fear, jealousy and stereotypes. Have they ever visited any part of Crown Heights? No. Their familiarity of the area is based on rumor, ignorance, the media, and their assumptions that any predominantly black neighborhood is inherently dangerous. They make judgments based on their own comfort levels - if they wouldn’t live there, and then no one else would, either. Specifically, they haven’t seen the care and money that went into this renovation or the inherent beauty of this house. I don’t know the owners, but it is an insult to them and to the house, to deride their efforts simply because they had the temerity to do a Brooklyn Heights renovation in a Crown Heights house.

I understand and share many of your feelings about some of the quality of life issues here. I spend a lot of time working with community groups who are doing our small parts to address those issues, and get our local gov’t to do its part in making things better. That, of course, still leaves many people and their activities which are not cool, not defensible, and bring down the neighborhood for everyone. Change takes time. But even with that, I will never stop defending a neighborhood that overall, is beautiful, worthy of consideration, and a great place to live.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 30, 2008 11:14 AM

Well said, east river. Thanks.

Is it me, your honest evaluation is just as important as my "cheerleading", as someone once called it. No neighborhood becames perfect because we wish it so, or even because we put our hard earned time and money into it. I understand your reasoning, and wish you well. When you do come back, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Anyone wanting to get a real look at Crown Heights North should come on out for our second annual house tour. The area around this house, including the synagogue turned church next door, is featured. We have several houses lined up right here, as well as some great homes and gardens throughout the community. Tour date is Saturday, October 4th, from 12-5, with tickets available on line, and at the door. The starting place is St Gregory's Church, corner of St.John's Place and Brooklyn Ave. Closest train is the 3 to Nostrand.

Our house tour is not about Wolf ranges or Waterworks bathrooms, although we show houses with those amenities, but rather about the interesting and diverse people who live here, and the houses they have made their own. We've got traditional brownstones dripping with period detail as well as sleek modern townhouses brought back to life from total ruin. The tour will allow you to walk throughout our landmarked and soon to be landmarked blocks, take in the old and new, and see Crown Heights as it is, not as it appears from high above on a Google map. I hope lots of brownstoner readers can come on over and see for yourselves.

www.crownheightsnorth.org

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 31, 2008 10:48 AM