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August 26, 2008

House of the Day: 1252 Dean Street

1252-Dean-Street-0808.jpg
If this detail-rich house at 1252 Dean Street looks familiar, it's because it was featured as a House of the Day in two years ago. At that point, it had just been listed at $1,100,000, a price that proved to be too rich for the market's blood; after the price was dropped to $990,000 in September, the house sold quickly for asking. Now it's back on the market for an mind-boggling $1,375,000 and, as far as we can tell, there have been no significant improvements. Good luck with that.
1252 Dean Street [Ardor] GMAP P*Shark
House of the Day: 1252 Dean Street [Brownstoner]




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Comments

No comment on the pricing (hopefully they did some major structural work?).

However, Those details make my head spin and my heart swoon! original wallpaper! Love love love!

But chef's kitchen?? Why is EVERY kitchen a chef's kitchen?? Is stainless steel the only requirement? There's not even an exhaust over the stove. If I were a chef I'd be pretty upset. Blech!!

Posted by: TownhouseLady at August 26, 2008 1:27 PM

Broker lists this as being in Bedford Stuyvesant. I hate when brokers don't even know what neighborhood the house is in, or for that matter know anything about the neighborhood.

990K 2 years ago when the getting was good...what makes them think they can get 1.3. Delusion.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at August 26, 2008 1:27 PM

940K mortgage. this is going to be a short sale.

Posted by: BrooklynLove at August 26, 2008 1:36 PM

Nice details and the house overall is very good. The location is okay but price is way unrealistic. This price even with renovations is a simple fantasy but i guess one can always dream...

Posted by: pierre de taille at August 26, 2008 1:40 PM

the "modern kitchen" design seems oddly out of place with the rest of the house.

Posted by: 11214 at August 26, 2008 2:09 PM

I am pretty sure the brokers know where this house is, they are just being douchy. Have you ever noticed Prudential lists most of their BedStuy listings as Clinton Hill?

The house is lovely (although personally not my style) and I would have rather designed my own kitchen and paid 200k less for a 15/20k job. I think the tag is a bit steep for Crown Heights. The hood, while beautiful in parts, is just not quite there in terms on amenities and polish to warrant that price in this market.

Posted by: offthegrid at August 26, 2008 2:15 PM

another example of dark, out-of-focus photos doing damage to a listing. the house may be a beauty, but it takes some imagination to get there from the pics.

Posted by: z at August 26, 2008 2:16 PM

thanks brooklynlove for the sanity check!
the pix and kitchen are the least of their problems. the market is the real issue.
don't know why we're even discussing this house. . . it's not going to sell and we all know it

Posted by: ontheparkway at August 26, 2008 2:19 PM

It's not gonna sell but it sure is pretty.

Posted by: Heather at August 26, 2008 2:22 PM


The Ardor site lists the house as in Bed Stuy, then goes on to twice mention the house is "located in Crown Heights," once going so far as to say the street is "one of the most sought-after residential blocks in Crown Heights" (which might be true).

Regardless, compared the street scene Lisa used a few days ago, this is a far more representative example of the type of house found in Crown Heights.

Posted by: East New York at August 26, 2008 2:26 PM

Definitely a cool house but that's steep for the location.

I think "chef's kitchen" is reasonable even though a hood would be nice.

Posted by: FatLenny at August 26, 2008 3:03 PM

Ontheparkway, while I agree that the price is too high, I think this house is certainly worthy of both people's time and discussion. There have been many houses of the day here recently with less attractive facades, no interior photos whatsoever, and higher price tags. They just happen to be in tonier neighborhoods.

I would argue that a superior house, which truly is on "one of the most sought-after residential blocks in Crown Heights" is worth talking about. This place is gorgeous, and has other period details not shown in the photos. When Crown Heights takes its rightful place in the list of desireable neighborhoods, which won't be that long from now, although I find it quite desireable now, this block and every house on it, especially untouched gems like this, will be the place to be.

If the buyer really needs to sell now, I think they will get about what they paid for it. I would be surprised to see it go for much more than that, certainly not more than perhaps $1.1 million. Not because it isn't worth it, but because the comps and the market don't support it right now.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 26, 2008 3:05 PM

Oh, East New York, I agree on all points.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 26, 2008 3:07 PM

It actually is on one of the most sought after blocks- I know the house and block very well.

I think it'll definitely sell, but not that high. We started seeing housing prices go up around the time Corcoran began taking an interest. The first house that sold in the area for 1 mill (and a bit +, if I remember correctly) was a freestanding mansion with most of it's detail intact and restored. I think it needed a kitchen but the rest of the house was eye watering.

As much as I love CHN, the housing prices were inflated for the area and I'm not unhappy if they go downward to where they should really be. But that's for selfish reasons- I couldn't afford to buy here if I wanted to now.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 26, 2008 3:12 PM

house is beautiful, however 1 mill would've been a buyer success at the top of the crown heights run up (which was when this owner bought - early 2007). 900k would be optimistic in this area right now, and if the buyer needs a mortgage (likely) then there are likley to be some tough wrinkles b/c lender appraisers are killing houses in crown heights right now.

Posted by: BrooklynLove at August 26, 2008 3:26 PM

All of a sudden a 39% "appreciation" in 2 years sounds a bit fishy?? Let's pretend for a minute. If it hadn't been sold 2 years ago and was simply listed at $1.35 million today... the reactions would be similar to the following:

I would say it's a perfectly reasonable price. Might want to shave 5-10% off just for an incentive. Otherwise, $1.3 million for a fine house in the up-and-coming neighborhood of Crown Heights... I mean, Park Slope Northwest... is really great. It has a very nice tree outside.

I just think it very funny.

Posted by: tybur6 at August 26, 2008 3:35 PM

Thanks, Montrose. I was going to add that the block is particularly desireable beacuse I live only two blocks over, but that would be gratuitous. I also agree with your opinion regarding the pricing.

Posted by: East New York at August 26, 2008 3:39 PM

I just looked at the original Corcoran listing and their pics still link. Corcoran's pics are much better.

Seriously, I can't get over the original details here. Just gorgeous. That's why we buy these houses isn't it?

I'm very upset with these people for what they did to the kitchen. Bad move, it detracted from the home rather than added to it.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at August 26, 2008 4:00 PM

tybur6: I think it is funny that people on here try to talk the whole market down. The market is down, slightly down. All the noise on here seems to be from those that say huge declines are coming to Brooklyn. The most bullish statements I've seen on here in the last 9 months are that the market will be flat for a while and any drop might be slight.

It hasn't crashed in Brownstone Brooklyn and there are lots of reasons why it might not. The condition of the real estate market can be measured nationally, and these are the figures which hit the headlines. These figures are helpful if you are investing in Mortgage Backed Securities (the risk of which are spread across the entire market), but real estate is still a local game if you are looking to buy one home. Supply has to increase in BB before we see big declines. Local conditions combined with general economic conditions will determine what happens next.

Posted by: Aussie at August 26, 2008 4:16 PM

aussie - i am a major bull on brooklyn. fact is that crown heights got harmfully bloated on flipping and straws. if this place sells w/n the next 1-2 years, it will be for less than 1 mill and probably closer to 900k if not less than that. all of brownstone brooklyn stopped moving together toward the end of last year.

Posted by: BrooklynLove at August 26, 2008 4:58 PM

More than one house in Crown Heights sold for over a mill but there's a lot more just sitting. Still, compared to Park Slope and the Heights, there aren't too many other places you can find this quality and size of old townhouse for the money. Crown Heights North is an up and coming neighborhood with great housing stock, like you said East New York. Still 900,000 is more realistic even for a house this spectacular. But in another couple of years prices will be even higher because it is a great neighborhood and will have more amenities then. And puhleezze- no Park SLope Northwest! Ugh! Eeewwww....gack! gack!

Posted by: lurker in the mist at August 26, 2008 5:23 PM

bayridgegirl writes: "Broker lists this as being in Bedford Stuyvesant. I hate when brokers don't even know what neighborhood the house is in, or for that matter know anything about the neighborhood."

Hold on one minute. Old-timers, and those who've grown up here say this block is, indeed Bed-Stuy. Yes, maps say that South of Atlantic is Crown Heights. Neighborhood people say differently. What do you know about the neighborhood?

Posted by: chnyc at August 26, 2008 6:07 PM

BrooklynLove: I'm sure you are a bull. None of the bulls are very bullish and haven't been for some time which begs the question what is tybur6 talking about?

I agree with you that sales in Brownstone Brooklyn have dramatically slowed. But it seems to me there is very limited stock also. I want to see carnage on Wall St or lots more listings (that are not selling) before I agree that there is going to be a crash in Brownstone Brooklyn. I say flat to drifting down 10% over the next 3-5 years and then a recovery to more normal appreciation of annual 5%.

The Crown Heights house could go for what it sold for last year. I love this area, it has a lot of fans, and I know developers who are still taking a chance here.

Posted by: Aussie at August 26, 2008 6:12 PM

Montrose can answer that question, chnyc. Hopefully he'll post again.

Posted by: lurker in the mist at August 26, 2008 6:44 PM

in my 25 years in the area i never heard of south of atlantic being bed stuy. but who gives a crap - the place is 2 blocks south of atlantic - call it crown stuy if you must.

aussie - you can't take brownstone brooklyn as a whole. bed stuy and crown heights are getting hit - the data is already here and it's undeniably bad. however, bk heights, prime park slope and prime fort greene are still rising. and much of the rest is staying somewhat stable.

Posted by: BrooklynLove at August 26, 2008 7:30 PM

Thanks for the listing, Brownstoner.

This may well be one of the houses I visited when growing up around the corner in Crown Heights during the 1950s.

I remember such places pretty much as they're pictured in the listing. Dark -- no matter how "modern" the owners' tastes (as illustrated in today's pix, too).

Of course, we kids didn't spend much time in the formal rooms upstairs (sometimes blocked from our use by velvet ropes -- can you believe it?). Most of the time we were in the kitchens and diningrooms downstairs, the same place they were located in the 1800s when the houses were built, down at "garden level."

These were comfortable rooms to hang out and play under the watchful eyes of mothers who, true to the time, stayed at home while dads were off at work. Still, they were dark, and with lower ceilings than the rooms upstairs, seemed even more so. (No industrial-chic retrofits and appliances then. Just heavy wood cabinets and bulbous porcelain sinks, difficult to reach to pour ourselves a drink. Maybe the stove and refrigerator were new, but they always looked oddly out of place, the refrigerator stuck in some inconvenient corner because, as a rule, these houses were built before the coming of the "ice box.")

No wonder we preferred playing outside in the backyard or, better yet, in the street.

Frankly, as handsome as the houses were, I liked my family's apartment more. It was bright and, on the third floor, had good views front and back. (Of course, one of the views' charms was the brownstone gardens where flowers and vines crawled up and over high wooden fences. No cyclone fencing then, thank goodness.)

This house looks an excellent example of its type. Its price will be determined by the buyer's ability to "see" it. As I've gotten older I've come to understand such houses charms -- and rue the day my grand parents gave up their Park Slope brownstone in the 1930's because it was so "old-fashioned" (and Park Slope was "declining")!

Nostalgic on Park Avenue

Posted by: NOP at August 26, 2008 9:45 PM

CH an up and coming hood.ha ha.thats funny.look at the crime stats idiots.

Posted by: buckfast at August 26, 2008 10:27 PM

Ah- another What sighting at 10:27. You can tell by the quality of the writing.

Posted by: east river at August 26, 2008 11:46 PM

Oh yeah--Buckfast has long been outed as a What-abe. Same dude for shizzle.

Posted by: wasder at August 27, 2008 12:29 AM

Crown Heights reminds me of Prospect Heights when I first moved to BK. I remember taking my kids to the Bk. Children's Museum years ago and thinking how nice the houses were in that area but how hopeless the neighborhood was. and now it has changed so much for the better. If you take a long view the trend is definitely up for CH.

Posted by: mimi at August 27, 2008 7:26 AM

the gentrification of crown heights is sweeping eastward very fast. and since crown heights is so large geographically, i wonder why Crow Hill hasn't been marketed as its own neighborhood.

Posted by: rocky4 at August 27, 2008 8:33 AM

I believe that's happening. They're going for landmark designation too, but that's going to take time.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 27, 2008 9:33 AM

Bxgrl:

What do you know about Crow Hill's designation? Is this something that the neighborhood association is pursuing or is this coming from the community board?

Posted by: BrooklynIsHome at August 27, 2008 10:00 AM

BrooklynisHome- I don't know more than that but I doubt the community board has anything to do with it. they generally don't and for CHN, CHNA did all the work. You could go to their website and contact someone, but if MM posts again, he'll mostly like know.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 27, 2008 10:16 AM


Who cares whether or not Crown Hieghts "gentrifies" or is "up and coming" or "is getting hit?" I mean, who cares? CH homeowners of my type love their historic homes and lifestyle and are confident values will continue to remain strong. Don't agree? Fine. Don't buy here. Regardless, my neighbors and I aren't waiting for some magical "you're in Park Sople category" moment. What's the big deal?

Posted by: East New York at August 27, 2008 10:18 AM

"Park Sople"

S-L-O-P-E. My bad.

Posted by: East New York at August 27, 2008 10:29 AM

In regards to Crow Hill, there is an active move to get the area landmarked. It is certainly worthy, fine residential blocks with intact facades, some really good apartment buildings, homes and churches, as well as some important commercial and civic buildings, including the Studebaker Building, which is already an individual landmark, the factory complex on Franklin and Bergen, and the main Jewish Hospital building. Last week, a meeting was held through Community Board 8, with representatives from Landmarks, the Historic Districts Council, and other preservation concerns to introduce themselves to the community, and to have a Q&A on the topic. Landmarking is a long process, and must involve the community board, local politicians, as well as a consensus of approval from the community, both homeowners and business people. I wish Crow Hill well, and support their efforts.

In regards to the borders of neighborhoods, chny, I agree, for years local people referred to much of Crown Heights North as being part of Bed Stuy. Weekesville, which is technically in Crown Heights, has always been claimed by Bed Stuy. I think this is greatly due to the fact that the neighborhoods are very similar in income levels and demographics. We share the same transportation hubs, shopping areas, problems, and the city’s responses to those problems. We have a much different ethnic makeup than Crown Heights South, and the wide border of Eastern Parkway is an excellent boundary. Atlantic Avenue is a boundary, however, and makes a good border for the north end of Crown Heights.

If you look at both neighborhoods from a planning standpoint, the streetscapes and layouts and zoning of Bed Stuy and Crown Heights North are very different, and these borders do make sense. Crown Heights, as a name for the very large area it encompasses, is an old name, and is certainly not recent real estate speak.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 27, 2008 12:55 PM

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