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August 13, 2008

House of the Day: 280 Lefferts Avenue

280-Lefferts-Avenue-0808.jpg
We can't say for sure how much the market has risen in this part of Prospect Lefferts Gardens in the last three years, but we doubt the answer is as high as 70 percent. That's that the owners of 280 Lefferts Avenue—which traded for $430,000 in 2005—are shooting for with their asking price of $724,000. The three-story, two-family house itself has some nice bones, though the kitchen, bathroom, back yard and front door aren't going to win any bonus points. What can the PLG'ers out there tell us about this block?
280 Lefferts Avenue [Ahrlty.com] GMAP P*Shark




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Comments

Love the floors but it frustrates me that you can't see if the moldings are still there. Whenever they shoot it like this you have to assume it's deliberate because they're missing.
However, the dopey agent that listed the house I bought shot her pics the same way and wouldn't you know it, every original molding was intact.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at August 13, 2008 1:35 PM

"dopey agent" THL why must we always resort to name calling??? I think thats a cover phrase for what you really want to say.

On the house...yeah, floors look OK. I think everyone should have a big aluminum shed in their 20' wide yard to store the lawnmower and wheelbarrels. When did we start calling them "mother-in-law" aoartments on the ground floor? And why didn't the dopey agent include a floorplan?

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 1:45 PM

daveinbedstuy;Don't you have anything better to do then spend all day on the blog.you seem to be somewhat intelligent isn't there something productive you can do.

Posted by: janko at August 13, 2008 1:59 PM

I'm doing it janko. It's called multi-tasking. Fiddling with the portfolio on a day-to-day basis is totally unproductive and not profitable. I've dome 3 conference calls already today. They are like these threads...after the first 10-15 minutes they degenerate rapidly.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 2:04 PM

Degenerate, my thoughts exactly.

Posted by: moreteasir at August 13, 2008 2:08 PM

why is 700k in PLG too high on a two family but 1.5 million plus in the seedy southeastern corner of Clinton Hill (where I live) reasonable? One seems withing the realm of possibility for dual income folks, the other, not so much.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at August 13, 2008 2:09 PM

Putnamdenizen...I don't think there's been any comment here so far that says its too high!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 2:11 PM

except maybe Mr. B.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 2:12 PM

daveinbedstuy;Then you should have run for president you would have been a better choice.

Posted by: janko at August 13, 2008 2:15 PM

How did you guess?

Actually my in-law apartment IS the aluminum shed. I keep my lawnmower in the basement. I mean, I don't want the blades to rust do I?

Hey, At least they didn't call the weeds in the backyard "greenscaping" (Corcoran says what?)

But Seriously...Your house is one of your biggest assets, don't owners look at RE websights to see who does a good job with their listings before they decide who to list with. I'm not saying you have to use a Corcoran to sell your house but shouldn't your agent at least present your home in a way that will make buyers want to come and look?


Posted by: TownhouseLady at August 13, 2008 2:17 PM

I went with a friend to look at a rental on this block a few months ago. Not a terrible hood, but nostrand ave around that area is a little bit sketchy. Im sure there is potential here, especially being somewhat close to the park and the sterling stop - but not at an asking price of 724k. 550-600 sounds a little more reasonable to me.

Posted by: bktycoon at August 13, 2008 2:19 PM

My shed is wood and I love it. Great place for keeping garden supplies and I store 3 cords of wood there in the winter.

Posted by: Boerum Hill at August 13, 2008 2:21 PM

Ok, I thought I was interested in this house. But I re-read the listing. Owner's 2-bedroom duplex, and an in-law apt. in english basement.

So, the upper two floors are one unit and the basement is another unit. Looking at the pictures of the facade, those basement windows don't look like they're more that 50% above grade. Am I wrong?

The house is 20x50 - why only two bedrooms on one floor???

I left the realtor a message. Cause if I'm wrong and it's two floor thru apts or can easily be converted, the price is right for me.

Not so sure about the neighborhood, not familar with this area.

Posted by: bayridgegirl at August 13, 2008 2:22 PM

Wait a minute...it's near Prospect Park and all the airplane noise.

Forget it!

Posted by: TownhouseLady at August 13, 2008 2:23 PM

janko...how come you're now posting full sentences??

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 2:30 PM

Geeze Brownstoner, do a basic comps search:

250 Lefferts Ave sold for $839,000 7/26/2007
208 Lefferts Ave sold for $736,000 1/3/2008
182 Lefferts Ave sold for $816,518 6/29/2007

These houses are all the same. Two floor through apartments and an english basement.

I'm not the realtor, but I am a neighbor.

Posted by: Baahumbug at August 13, 2008 2:35 PM

Gotta say I agree with Putnam Denizen (who will soon be my almost neighbor). This house looks like a pretty reasonable value for somebody who wants a family house plus some rental income at a decent price.

Posted by: wasder at August 13, 2008 2:35 PM

How long does it take to get to Fulton St in Manhattan on that 5 train from there???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 2:52 PM

about 30 min.

Posted by: bktycoon at August 13, 2008 3:10 PM

Oh no you don't DIBS, I'm not about to start calling you DaveinLeffertsGarden. Too many letters. Doesn't have the same ring to it, either.

Posted by: MacD at August 13, 2008 3:13 PM

MacD...if I moved over there we'd whip that block into shape and take that Greenest Block award away from you

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 3:15 PM

I'm sorry DIBS, did the block you are living on now win a "greenest block award this year?" I must have missed that in the press release. I trusted you to make good use of that whip, damn it, what happened?(Sidenote: We couldn't compete b/c we won last year).

Posted by: MacD at August 13, 2008 3:29 PM

MacD...saucer of milk?

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 3:36 PM

There's a identical house in Lefferts Manor on Midwood Street selling for 799,000 (Corcoran). It needs work, but that is a much, much more desireable loction--and that house has been on the market for ever! If that one can't sell for 799,000 I seriously doubt this one --on Lefferts, outsiude of the Manor-- can sell for over 699K. And the fact that similar homes sold for more in January is irrelevant. In some areas, prices are down a lot since then

Posted by: shillstoner at August 13, 2008 3:42 PM

This area is much lighter on Foreclosures than some others. The lending must have remained in control.

Dave have you looked at the Reality Trac map for Bed Sty? You have to zoom in to be able to see any map - it is literally covered with forclosures 5 to 10 a block. More concentrated than anywhere else I have looked. The market could never absorb that many sales and the effect would have to spill into other areas.

Not expecting this to happen in Brooklyn but check this out;
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080813/METRO/808130360&imw=Y

Posted by: Aussie at August 13, 2008 3:50 PM

Only if it is served in a Wedgwood saucer. I expect the very finest from you.

Posted by: MacD at August 13, 2008 3:59 PM

Aussie...i'll have to subscribe...it won't let me drill down to the area I consider relevant...bordered by Malcolm X & Throop and Fulton & Putnam. Or what people refer to as Stuyvesant heights, whether that be snooty or not...LOL

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 4:10 PM

It's true, do a search of sex offenders and foreclosures and Bed Stuy lights up like a Christmas tree. I know there is no relationship between the two, but I have searched for both on separate occasions and that's what I've found.

Posted by: MacD at August 13, 2008 4:27 PM

MacD....are you looking for a sex offender??? Can't you just go out to a bar and pick someone up??

Now that you've piqued our interest, what is the link?

Is there a cross-link, foreclosures on sex offender properties????

I think we've now officially reached the bottom of the barrel in any thread that has ever been posted on brownstoner.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 4:45 PM

I can't tell if you are serious MacD.

Dave, there are more than 100 foreclosures within the boundries that you mentioned only 4 blocks wide. I had listed numbers by street, but the post failed.
Macdonought stands out with only 3 Putnam has 19 it is bad, but the trouble is Reality Trac shows even more in surrounding areas.

Posted by: Aussie at August 13, 2008 4:46 PM

I'm sure the surrounding areas, especially anywhere north of Putnam and east of Malcolm X (Ocean Hill) have a lot. There isn't much over there that can really sell for much higher than $600-650k. And those were areas targetted by HELOC lenders.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 4:53 PM

MacD...going to Peaches tonight with a friend

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 13, 2008 4:53 PM

This block of Lefferts Avenue is pleasant enough, with a lot of houses in this style and others with terra cotta accents. The 2 and 5 train is just one block away, and the Q train and Franklin avenue shuttle are a little over three blocks away. The place looks like its in good shape, so above 700,000 doesn't seem crazy. I think the Midwood street house in Lefferts Manor mentioned above is underpriced, though remember the Midwood street house has no rental apartment (due to the restrictive covenant restricting the home to one family) and may be less valuable for this reason.

Posted by: AdrianLesher at August 13, 2008 6:19 PM

I cannot believe I am responsible for reaching a new low here. There is a link to sex offenders in the area, but I think it's best if I not post it here so as not to further stir this discusion. I'll stop by Peaches around 8ish and see if you're there. I just ordered Japanese, so it'll be a quick social visit. Hopefully see you soon.

Posted by: MacD at August 13, 2008 6:24 PM

You guys should meet at the new T-cup Cafe on Throop Ave: http://www.bedstuyblog.com/2008/08/13/new-cafe-alert-t-cup-cafe/

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 13, 2008 6:50 PM

"There's a identical house in Lefferts Manor on Midwood Street selling for 799,000..."

Not really--these brick houses with terra cotta trim are only found in PLG on Lefferts II and III [i.e. Bedford--Rogers and Roger--Nostrand blocks]. The Midwood Street house "shillstoner" refers to is probably one of the two stories found on all Lefferts Manor blocks just west of Rogers Avenues. These smallest LM houses are not as deep as the Lefferts Ave. ones and, of course, have no potential for rental income which does exist on this block, which is in the PLG Historic District, but outside of Lefferts Manor. Both types of houses are very nice, but they're quite different. I'd personally prefer one of the "Real Estate Associate" [the original c. 1909 developer] two-story LM houses, because I wouldn't want to be a landlord {and like living in Lefferts Manor], but the choice is far from clear cut.

BTW, that $430,000 price in 1905, if correct, was a VERY low price for that block at that time.

Lastly, what, if anything, does all this talk of sex offender lists, for neighborhoods several miles away, have to do with THIS house?

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 13, 2008 6:57 PM

I stopped into Tiny Cup on my way back from the YMCA in July -- tres hip. It is a nice place to meet. Is that the same as T-cup? The place I am talking about is on Nostrand and Quincy (?) or thereabouts. Oh, you were kind enough to supply a link, let me go and check it out. Thanks for the information, Amzi Hill.

Posted by: MacD at August 13, 2008 7:06 PM

I actually do live on this block, and have for three and one-half years -- it's a very nice block, a mix of old and new owners. It is in the PLG landmark district, and these houses were built as two-family houses -- with the exception of four one family houses in the middle of the block, two on each side of the street.

The real problem on this block has been some owners' flagrant disregard of landmarks specifications with regard to facade alterations -- there are at least three houses on the north side of the street that have satellite dishes planted on the front of the house, creating not only an eyesore, but also potentially damaging the terra cotta ornamentation that was a prime reason for landmarking these houses in the first place. There is also one house on the north side of the street in the middle of the block where the owner just decided to jackhammer the stoop of the house into oblivion; two years later it's still that way. They also own the house next door, which is totally unkept, with broken sidewalk spouting plants and an utterly overgrown front garden.

These houses are zoned two family; it is illegal to live in the English basement. Most owners live on the parlor floor, and use the lower level as a rec room. Under New York City zoning law it is illegal to "live" below grade -- living is defined as have a tub in the bathroom and a full kitchen. A stall shower is OK -- you can always say you work out down there and like to shower off afterwards, as is a kitchenette (no stove). No beds. of course, what you do with it once it's yours is your own business, but it's illegal to advertise that level for living.

Unfortunately, many of these houses have had an illegal third apartment put on that level, and some even have the meters on the facade to prove it (again in violation of landmarks requirements).

I have seen the top floor apartment in this house when it was for rent -- the owner installed a nice kitchen with dishwasher and knocked out the wall between the hall closet and the bathroom to make a very nice, big bathroom (otherwise in these houses they are tiny, with either a half-size tub going the short way in the room, or a full size tub right next to the toilet).

The owner also installed an intercom system, so renters can buzz people in, and put in a new door, without a mail slot, so there are mailboxes in the entry foyer now. Kind of destroyed the charm of the original.

I don't think the price is too bad, if it were marketed correctly. A&H's web site is just too amateurish-looking. No floor plans? These are really nice, spacious houses -- the web site doesn't do it justice. This is what happens when you cheap out and go after that 4% non co-broke commission -- but if the product sells itself you should be OK. This is not one of those times, however.

Posted by: babs at August 13, 2008 7:07 PM

MacD this place is in the Stuyvesant Heights section of Bedford Stuyvesant near Decatur and Throop... Once off Fulton this part of the area feels very nice

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 13, 2008 7:11 PM

BTW, the other sales listed above were all for houses in much better shape than this one (including having had central air installed, etc.), and two were on the block between Bedford and Rogers (that much closer to the Park and the B and Q). 250 Lefferts is closer to Rogers than to Nostrand as well. I do think that this price isn't bad, and is an acceptable discount from the three others mentioned above, given their superiorities.

Posted by: babs at August 13, 2008 7:18 PM

MacD at the risk of continuing a topic that could offend... I visited the National Sex Offenders Registry and indeed the lower income areas of Brooklyn do have more sex offenders.

Once a person is on that register it makes sense that employment will be harder, legal costs will have taken saving and generally it is going be tough. The cash isn't exactly going to be rolling in and I guess cheaper accomodation is required. It isn't something that I had thought about before, but as a dad it is something I want to consider.

On the other hand this is still a very small proportion of the population and I think I'm still happy to smim at a beach if there are twice as many sharks in the water. I'll just take the necessary precautions and swim between the flags in fact I will do that anyway.

Posted by: Aussie at August 13, 2008 7:19 PM

Incidentally, the 2 and 5 trains suck -- when I moved there I thought, "Oh, great, I'm not too far from the end of the line, so I'll always get a seat." I really had no idea how many people live in what used to be called the two-fare zone, as in needing to take a bus or a car or dollar van to the train. And they hold those trains down there at the junction until they are jam-packed. Some mornings I have had to let a train go by because I didn't want to wedge myself in.

Additionally, the 3 and 4 trains get precedence at Franklin Ave. So at any time of day, you are guaranteed to sit for three to five minutes (or more) at President St, while they announce that "we are delayed because of train traffic ahead of us" -- not, of course, train traffic on Nostrand Ave!

On a good day it's about 35 minutes to Union Square at rush hour -- and don't even think about a bad day. I often walk the extra ten minutes or so to the Q/B at Prospect Park -- much more reliable and speedier line.

Posted by: babs at August 13, 2008 7:27 PM

I went by the T-cup on my way to Peaches to visit DIBS. I took a peek in-between the newspaper on the windows and have to say it is no where near ready. It looks kind of like a Chinese restaurant with a serving area close to the door, etc. They'll have to do a lot of renovation, and I'm guessing they put the nice signage up to generate excitement (which is good). I look forward to checking it out when it is ready. It's great to have lots of options for good coffee.

Speaking of good coffee, Aussie, good attitude about the hood. Yes, it took me aback when I saw the numbers of offenders around here, but like you, I don't mind swimming with the sharks too much. I'm told if you strike them dead on the nose really, really hard they recoil.

Now, back to PLG ....

Posted by: MacD at August 13, 2008 8:57 PM

One of the real worries about living here is that in case of a health emergency, you will be taken to Down State/Kings County hospital, one of the worst hospitals in the city. Like Thunderdome, "two go in, one comes out"
It is an indictment of the racist american health care system.

beware.

Posted by: Gary Cooper at August 13, 2008 9:54 PM

Oh please, I have lived in PLG for decades and have never gone to Kings County Hospital for emergency health care. That's probably also because I've never needed hospitalization for major trauma. Severe trauma cases from all over the borough can get sent to Kings County, not just those folk who live in PLG, East Flatbush and surrounding neighborhoods.

Posted by: Brooklynista at August 13, 2008 10:28 PM

If you have a great big horrible life-threatening emergency, especially GSW, Kings County ER is actually where you want to be; more experience makes for better care. I took a friend in dire respiratory distress to their ER years ago and it was incredible, like an ER episode (minus the explosions) rather than the usual torpid ER pace of reality in most hospitals. However, once they patch you up, you most definitely want OUTTA there...

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at August 14, 2008 12:53 AM

It's not really accurate to lump Kings County and Downstate together. Downstate is a State University teaching hospital that is in an entirely different league. Unfortunately [except, as Brenda points out, for major trauma] the ER is at Kings County.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 14, 2008 9:07 AM

In some of these houses (including mine in PLG) it is actually legal to live in the English basement. Grade is measured from curb height in most cases. However this house has no C of O so you can't be sure whether the current setup is legal. It is listed as a 2-family with DOB though.

I do agree this looks overpriced. This is a decent but not great block; the house has some of the original charm but the kitchen and bath are do-overs; and then there's the legalization issue. Although I do appreciate that they didn't sink money into granite counters and recessed lighting. :-)

I spent over 3 hours in Kings Country ER recently. I ended up leaving and going to an ER in Manhattan where I was seen immediately. But my injury, while bad, was not life threatening.

Posted by: geekspice at August 14, 2008 9:51 AM

That's interesting, geekspice, about how the city measures grade for English basements. I've wondered that before, because our windows are short and small, not normal size windows like a garden level, BUT there is a big cement platform at the front of our house and when you look at the tops of the windows they're pretty far above the level of the sidewalk.

Posted by: traditionalmod at August 14, 2008 12:00 PM

i would only buy one of those houses on lefferts ave if it was between rogers and bedford. the block isn't as nice between rogers and nostrand. there's a lot more trees on the west side of rogers.

still, it's a great neighborhood. sterling, the block above is even nicer. for strange reason, sterling between rogers and flatbush isn't part of the historical perimeter.

Posted by: Agnostic Fart at August 14, 2008 12:29 PM

i would only buy one of those houses on lefferts ave if it was between rogers and bedford. the block isn't as nice between rogers and nostrand. there's a lot more trees on the west side of rogers.

still, it's a great neighborhood. sterling, the block above is even nicer. for strange reason, sterling between rogers and flatbush isn't part of the historical perimeter.

Posted by: Agnostic Fart at August 14, 2008 12:29 PM

traditionalmod:

My house is exactly the same as you describe. If you stand on the curb you should be able to gauge fairly accurately if your basement is more than 50% above grade.

Posted by: geekspice at August 15, 2008 9:28 AM

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