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August 6, 2008

House of the Day: 19 Garden Place

19-Garden-Place-0808.jpg
19-Garden-Interior-0808.jpgThere's not a bad thing to say about the charming Tudor house at 19 Garden Place in Brooklyn Heights. All the original detail is just as it should be, and the updated kitchen looks well done (except for our pet peeve—granite counters!) The biggest challenge to achieving the asking price of $3,995,000 will likely be the somewhat diminutive size. While the listing doesn't give a number, it can't be much more than 2,000 square feet. Still, it's on one of the quietest and most quaint blocks in The Heights and the architecture is a rarity, so anything's possible.
19 Garden Place [Brown Harris Stevens] GMAP P*Shark




Posted by Brownstoner at 1:16 PM | Comments (56)
Categories: Brooklyn Heights, HOTD

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Comments

Sheesh, what's wrong w 2000 sft for a single family house? It is only 15' wide, however. Still, a nice home, move-in condition. Not a bad price for BH.

Posted by: denton at August 6, 2008 1:31 PM

Nice little house.. Looks like something out of London... and so dose the price.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 6, 2008 1:37 PM

Your pet peeve is granite counters?
Geez, how special are you?

Everytihng I see in these pictures is pretty darn fabulous.
The space looks ample. Not everyone desires a big monstrous house.

Posted by: sam at August 6, 2008 1:38 PM

Pricing on this is out of control. 2000 sq. ft is far too small to justify this price. Maybe im not a huge fan of BH, but if i was working within this price range, id be purchasing an entire brownstone/townhouse in PS CG or PH for far less $.

Posted by: bktycoon at August 6, 2008 1:40 PM

Most quietest?

Posted by: Luce at August 6, 2008 1:42 PM

I love this house and think this would be the near perfect house if you could afford it. With that said, don't housing prices have to start coming down?

Posted by: no name at August 6, 2008 1:46 PM

Cute house, insane asking price, though they've dropped from their original ask of $4.4 mil when it was first listed last June. It might need another 10% drop - it's been at $3.995 since March with no takers.

Posted by: zeebee_in_bklyn at August 6, 2008 1:46 PM

despite being one of the militant sky is falling zealots around here, i have to admit that this place may get asking only because carriage houses are a premium and this block is perhaps the prettiest and most family friendly in all of brooklyn if not the entire city...

Posted by: travy at August 6, 2008 1:49 PM

The price seemed reasonable (for an unreasonable market) until I focused on the particular BH location.

Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at August 6, 2008 1:50 PM

...wrong quadrant of Henry and Joralemon for $3.995M.

Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at August 6, 2008 1:53 PM

why do you dislike granite counters? or is it just this color? I recall you installed marble counters. there are granites that have a similar appearance to the whitle marble you used.... curious ;-)

Posted by: 1842 at August 6, 2008 1:56 PM

Actually, I recall that Stoner bought vintage marble urinals to use in his kitchen....do I recall correctly?

Granite, yeah, that's gross!


Posted by: sam at August 6, 2008 2:00 PM

I think it's cute, but I don't see what all the fuss is about.

I know the block is beautiful, but I guess I prefer the look of a brownstone or limestone. If I had 4 million, this house would not be at the top of my list.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2008 2:01 PM

I love tudor. there are several on Dean St. that I would kill to have. This place is just a little jewel box- but since there is no way I can afford it I am just going to have to lust in my heart.

Posted by: bxgrl at August 6, 2008 2:04 PM

I like how the 3 million dollar house comes with a $50 garden.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 6, 2008 2:07 PM

I don't care how nice the block is or the house is. A 15-foot width is just downright claustrophobic.

Credit the BHS photographer for making the living room look like it has a 25-foot width.

Posted by: Suburbandude at August 6, 2008 2:07 PM

Dittoburg, I'm going to have to agree with you. That garden is weak! For 4 million, can you at least take the hose out of the picture....?

I think the whole place looks a bit dark and shabby, now looking at the photos again.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2008 2:13 PM

Bktycoon & 11217: I cannot agree with you guys more. This is an average house in an excellent hood and way overpriced. The place is too small for $4m and the interior is just okay IMHO. I mean the stairwell and fireplace are even below average (compared to a nice brownstone in FG or PS) Needs @ least a 20% price reduction is pending. BTW I like the kitchen and the Granite looks good:)

Posted by: pierre de taille at August 6, 2008 2:23 PM

I absolutely love this block. However, I agree the place is priced too high for this market and I can't stand when pictures, particularly the one of the living room, show more signs of stretching than Joan River's mug.

Posted by: Biff Champion at August 6, 2008 2:27 PM

ok - wait, brownstones are better than Tudors? really? why???
tudors are fab! brownstones and limestones are drab and utilitarian. prefer BH and CH for their red brick townhouses in general, but this tudor is super special.

it sounds like with the renovation of the basement and all those bedrooms, that there is plenty of space.

this place is great and beats the sh*t out of living next to projects or AY or ghetto hood dudes like you have to in FG and PS. don't get me started on CG....somehow bad architecture, NIMBY's, thugs, the BQE, brownstones with shortened windows, horrific buildings from the '70's, and awnings everywhere are supposed to be a good thing? worst neighborhood ever...

sure someone will make and offer even if much lower.


also, the anti granite thing is odd... can be great functionally and although i don't love every shade of it, when the color works, granite is terrific.

Posted by: wine lover at August 6, 2008 2:40 PM

Wow, I sense a lot of anger there wine lover. Are you the broker selling this house?

Posted by: jwald at August 6, 2008 2:46 PM

Suburbandude--a 15-ft wide house with a center stair is going to feel as spacious (if not more) as a 20-ft wide brownstone with a center stair. Granted, the photog went a little insane with the wide angle, but the rooms are of decent size.

That said, this place still seems overpriced.

Posted by: tinarina at August 6, 2008 2:48 PM

Who said brownstones were better, wine lover? I said I preferred them, but never said they were better.

Your comment makes you sound like you are completely off your rocker.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2008 2:48 PM

Are we sure this house isn't in Queens?

Sure looks like it.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at August 6, 2008 2:52 PM

wine lover, I agree with 11217. I've seen your posts before and they're usually insightful and even-keeled. Perhaps a bit too much vino at lunch? Is this perhaps an imposter, i.e., wine_lover? Everything ok? You do sound a bit like the broker.

Posted by: Biff Champion at August 6, 2008 2:59 PM

Its not tudor, and I wouldn't call it neo-tudor. Its a take off of 1920's British schoolhouse neo-tudor. More like faux-neo-tudor. And enophile, while you make a number of well-reasoned points, I must disagree with your characterization of limestones as drab.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 6, 2008 3:02 PM

This is in the part of Queens you can't afford.

An asbestos-covered shack would sell for millions on this block. And this is actually a very attractive and well preserved house. It is very Patrician, even though it is not huge.

That said, I am sure who ever buys will want to gut it, add to the back, excavate a cellar lap pool and do all the typical foolish things people with too much money like to do.

If they don't get 3.9, they will get 3.5. It's the block stupid.

Posted by: sam at August 6, 2008 3:03 PM

The tudor that you featured last week in your 'open house picks' on Marlborough Road in Ditmas Park was much nicer than this house and location aside, you didn't rant and rave over it. BTW the Ditmas Park house is already in contract.

Posted by: Chosen at August 6, 2008 3:15 PM

This house has been on the market for well over a year. It is way overpriced. I wonder why BROWNSTONER never mentioned that it has been on the market since 6/07 and a price drop in March, 2008. Bad journalism or something else going on here?

Posted by: BklynHouseLover at August 6, 2008 3:23 PM

Chosen - any idea how much for?

Posted by: dittoburg at August 6, 2008 3:28 PM

Yes, this house has been on the market for what seems like forever. It started out well over $4 million. It was also an Open House Pick last year:

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2007/12/open_house_pick_156.php

Posted by: abcdz at August 6, 2008 3:28 PM

Okay, so this is getting embarrassing.

We saw this house too. Loved the block and loved the curb appeal.

The love ended after walking in.

It was extremely narrow and dark. The dining area felt like something out of the seventies. I think it was the cabinetry. And again, just no real feeling of space or light. The kitchen was awful. And no, Brownstoner, not because of the granite (again, I don't get your problem with granite. Its silly), but because of the shape it was in. Some of the cabinetry was askew, there was a big crack in something, and it was small. Would probably have to be a gut. The garden had that prison yard feel. All stone and cement, down a half floor, and no real sunlight.

The lower floor was just plain odd. Wall to wall carpet, a big pit kinda thing for... I don't know... playing? lounging? And finally, upstairs was a strange warren of rooms. Bathrooms were in need of guts, lot's of wall to wall carpeting (stained), and one of the rooms was at the end of a long hallway.

It just can't ask for what its asking for. To end a sentence with a preposition.

Posted by: Nokilissa at August 6, 2008 3:34 PM

Thank you ABCDZ!! I knew this place had been featured before and that it looked familiar. I was going to do a search, but then got busy at work!

It was as lukewarm to me last year as it is now.


Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2008 3:36 PM

Nokilissa,
I think you have to look for houses in cities known for their good housing such as DC or San Fran.
Most housing in NYC sucks and it still costs a fortune. That's just the way it is.
I don't think you will ever find anything you like here.

Posted by: sam at August 6, 2008 3:40 PM

Shucks Nokilissa, I wish you would have liked it. I'm still holding out hope that your family will move into my 'hood!

"The tudor that you featured last week in your 'open house picks' on Marlborough Road in Ditmas Park was much nicer than this house and location aside, you didn't rant and rave over it."

In that case, there's a gorgeous place in Pawtucket that is much roomier than this with a much nicer garden, location aside. This is arguably the nicest block in Brooklyn Heights and one of the nicest in the entire borough. Not saying the house is worth the price, but this street is awesome.

Posted by: Biff Champion at August 6, 2008 3:44 PM

Sigh. Double sigh, Sam.

We DID find our perfect house earlier this year, but lost out to a blind bidding war thing. I'm afraid that house is now some kind of template for me. The iconic brownstone. Impossible to reproduce. We'll see.

And home is NYC. Can't move to SF or DC, no matter the loveliness of the houses.

Posted by: Nokilissa at August 6, 2008 3:45 PM

Is Pawtucket really a place? Love it.

This is, indeed, the kind of street you can only find in a Currier and Ives print. It is that gorgeous.

And Ditmas Park ain't Brooklyn Heights.

Posted by: Nokilissa at August 6, 2008 4:07 PM

It's a very cute house that really isn't doing it for me on the inside. The pricetag doesn't help, either.

Did anyone else notice that there's no bathroom on the first floor? For $4mil, I want the option to flush on any floor I choose.

Posted by: BrooklynButler at August 6, 2008 4:13 PM

Noki, even if you don't move there, you should take your kids on this street on Halloween. Almost all the homes go crazy with decorations, they close off the street and it's a giant party. Then you can go to all the other brownstones in the area. The wine lover post reminded me that I saw Paul Giammati (sp?) with his kids trick or treating here last year. When I go down this street, you can sense a neighborly spirit that is so much stronger than on other streets nearby.

And Ditmas Park ain't Pawtucket!

Posted by: Biff Champion at August 6, 2008 4:16 PM

You should read some of the comments about this house the last time it was featured:

"Brooklyn Heights house will sell for way above asking. The rest will go for under asking but will sell quickly."

"4.4mm for 1,736sf house that looks like it belongs in a undesirable part of Queens? Thanks for the holiday laugh!"

"The taxes on that mini-tiny-Tudor in Brooklyn Heights are over $10K. So, you pay through the nose to buy it, and you keep paying through your nose to own it."

"Garden Place has been on the market for months - 23 weeks according to Natefind. Beautiful house but no one's biting at that price."

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2008 4:19 PM

"It's the block stupid."

Does this block rate around $2000/sf?

Didn't think so.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at August 6, 2008 4:26 PM

Pawtucket is indeed a magical place... very funny, Biff.

But it ain't the Heights. This house needs updating, but it is on one of the best blocks in NYC. I've never been inside, but have walked by it for 20 years. Could it really be that bad?

Prison yard garden? That can be fixed. Tear out the carpet, and get rid of the cock-fighting ring in the basement. Keep the orange dining room, nice patina. It's still overpriced by at least a half-mil, but I'm surprised that someone hasn't bought it by now.

Posted by: buttermilk channel at August 6, 2008 4:29 PM

How could anyone possibly have a general dislike of granite counters? You can get hundreds of different colors/shades/patterns of granite; likewise marble, corian, tile, or whatever. If it's done right and it works, it's great; if it's done poorly, it's bad. E.g. the granite counters in my kitchen are beautiful. The marble in my bathroom is horrid. How can you have a thing against a whole category?

Brownstoner is weird sometimes.

Anyway, the comments are correct, this place is all about the block, not the house. Garden Place is one of the quietest, safest, richest, leafiest, family-friendly-est, quaintest blocks in the entire city. Plus, since the former owners of all the houses on the block were rich people who moved there for the same reason, you can be sure that any house there is in good shape. Maybe not to everyone's liking, as evidenced in the comments, but certainly well-maintained.

All that said, five years ago people would have said about this place "dude, it's on Garden Place, of course it's worth the $2 million asking price." People are starting to realize that, except for some discrete infusions of money into the city in that time, wages at all levels of the spectrum are basically the same. $4 million may not have *sounded* ridiculous last year... but it didn't sell. And this year it's starting to seem ridiculous again - starting to seem like it may have been ridiculous all along. There are stilll crazy rich people with cash to burn, but they're not quite as crazy as they were. I bet this goes for $3.5M, maybe a little lower.

Posted by: sdrubbins at August 6, 2008 4:29 PM

I think in this market, 3.5 is the most this house is gonna get. If it were PERFECTION for this price, it might move, but it sounds like it needs some substantial work...especially for the kind of buyer who would be looking at this place in the first place.

Posted by: 11217 at August 6, 2008 4:30 PM

Agree with Stoner, as usual, that granite sucks. I don't know why Stoner doesn't like it, but I think just about every shade is hideous. I went with Pietra Cardoza, which looks great but a pain to maintain. I love poured concrete but it seemed like a pain to install.

Posted by: FatLenny at August 6, 2008 4:36 PM

fatlenny - i think poured concrete looks amazing and i plan on doing it in my reno - will look into pietra cardoza, i'm not familiar with that material. Thanks.

Posted by: bkny at August 6, 2008 7:51 PM

I heard that they got asking on the Ditmas Tudor.

Posted by: Chosen at August 6, 2008 8:11 PM

"Pain to maintain" is the operative phrase here, FatLenny.

Marble stains like hell (one sloppy wine glass and you're done), cracks, and isn't particularly heat resistant.
Concrete is, as you pointed out, difficult to install and difficult once installed. It cracks, is difficult to seal, stains easily (oils, even water) and is dated.
Soapstone only comes in shades of green/gray, scratches easily and must be maintained yearly. It is also really expensive.
Brazilian Cherry & other gorgeous woods are my one temptation, but again, expensive, impractical and difficult to maintain. You also pretty much have to go with a white/light cabinetry if it is to look right. There is also the pesky little question about Brazilian deforestation and other "green" concerns.

So...

Granite, especially if not shiny, can be gorgeous. Comes in every conceivable color and takes virtually zero maintenance apart from an occasional polishing. Sealing it can be stretched to every two years easy. I know this.

Don't know what Peitra Cardoza is, and hope I don't regret my granite choice once googling it.

Posted by: Nokilissa at August 6, 2008 8:22 PM

Thank God Ditmas 'ain't' Pawtucket or Brooklyn Heights. It is still relatively affordable. We also know how to do good Halloween party. In addition to many porch and block celebrations, we have two parades. There is one house that sets up an electric chair and guillotine every year on their lawn. Last year a kid at another house was buried under the leaves piled up by the porch and jumped out as we approached the door. He scared the crap out me. My kids of course found it very amusing. Even if I could afford the BH tudor, I am still partial to Ditmas. I didn't have to go all the way to Pawtucket for a little grass.

Posted by: Chaka at August 6, 2008 8:26 PM

Forgot to say that granite is virtually indestructible. Can place boiling hot pans on it with impunity. Is very difficult to stain it, if sealed properly - and if you choose something in the black color family, won't show anyway. Cannot cut or scratch it easily. It literally takes a hammer. This I know. (Okay, I'll fess up... I was trying to open up the stems of some cherry blossom branches with a hammer and slipped off of the postage-stamp sized cutting board I was using for this purpose. Stupid, stupid, stupid. BUT, even with that, you can barely see the bruise).

Posted by: Nokilissa at August 6, 2008 8:40 PM

nokilissa - you have me sold on granite. i have had granite in the past and i wanted something different. but i do remember when a friend came over to cook and asked me if i had a cutting board - and i was like no, i have granite - lol.

thanks for the reminder.

Posted by: bkny at August 6, 2008 8:50 PM

Brownstoner never mentioned what his beef is with granite. I think he had reclaimed marble from a movie theater in his kitchen, btw sam, not the lovely thought of the Brownstoner clan chopping cilantro on a urinal.

Posted by: Woofer Plantation at August 6, 2008 9:34 PM

I thought granite had stain problems too unless you get it honed. I'm certainly no expert. My Pietra Cardoza looks good after a year. A couple of marks but nothing too bad. It has a beautiful grain running through it, not like speckled granite which I find way too busy even when it's black.

Posted by: FatLenny at August 6, 2008 11:40 PM

Actually honed granite shows stains more than regular granite. I love my granite countertops because of all the reasons Nokilisa mentioned but I think if I was doing a kitchen now, I would seriously look into Caesarstone/Silestone.

Posted by: ilikeslices at August 7, 2008 6:20 AM

I think the beef with granite, which in my opinion is the best counter material, comes from folks who have invested in some faddish material such as poured concrete, 1950's recycled formica, or in Mr. B's case, marble slabs that were formally bathroom fixtures (!) and having made these embarrasing errors, are now disdaining the material of choice of sane home owners.

Posted by: sam at August 7, 2008 10:36 AM

I've visited this a few times.

Key points:
1) House is very narrow. 15 wide at the widest. Not a huge problem for the living room, but it makes the upstairs rooms quite narrow. Kitchen is perhaps 12' wide. Granite counter is cracked; the rest of the kitchen has white 'Euro' style formica cabinets that perfectly express 1987 -- not bad, just dated. No bathroom on the 'parlor' floor.

Downstairs is the giant cat scratching post room. Not really sure what you'd do with that sunken area, but there is no way that I'd pay 2k/foot for it. All bathrooms/other rooms down there are finished in the cheap brown tile/ formica that was also popular in 1987; the recessed lighting really adds to the vibe.


Upstairs, the main bedrooms have trashed w/w carpet. The california style closets are nice, and the giant walk-in closets lovely, but again, 2k/foot for a closet makes your closet worth perhaps 100k. I can buy a storage unit for that. It's called a studio in ENY. Only one bedroom is full width, but the rest are ok. There are leaks in the bathroom.

Top floor has a large bedroom, with another 80s-inspired bathroom, as well as roof access. Would be perect for a teen.

The broker said you could rent it for 10-12k/year. I'd pay 1.5-2.0, but no more; the house is actually smaller than 2k worth of usable space (some of the 2k is in the utility rooms.

Overpriced, move along.

Posted by: thwackamole at August 8, 2008 1:39 AM

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