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August 4, 2008

House of the Day: 208 Hancock Street

208-Hancock-Street-0808.jpgThe days of someone paying a lot of money for a wreck of a house in Bed Stuy are over, if they were ever really here at all. (Most of the houses in Bed Stuy that sold for close to a million dollars or more in the last couple of years were either in good shape or had something pretty spectacular to recommend them.) As much as we dig the exterior of this brownstone at 208 Hancock Street, we'd be very surprised if someone paid the asking price of $859,000. There are no interior photos of the 3-family, 3,600-square-foot house, but judging from those windows, we'd be surprised if the inside of the house had been particularly well-preserved. So what do you think the market is for something like this? Not very strong, we'd guess.
208 Hancock Street [Weichert] GMAP P*Shark




Posted by Brownstoner at 1:22 PM | Comments (97)
Categories: Bedford Stuyvesant, HOTD

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Comments

You have to wonder where some of these sellers have been for the last year. Are they living under a rock? Not watch the news or read the paper?

The price of this house is so ridiculous, it's laughable.

"Worth" probably about half what they're asking.

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 1:37 PM

No one can make an educated guess:

1. Don't know what the block looks like
2. Don't know what shape the elect, plumbing, heat or roof are in
3. Don't know if there is any architectural detail left

My guess is that given that it looks like it retains original doors in what look to be, maybe(?) decent shape there could be a positive surprise inside on the architectural detail

But apparently broker Groysman is too much of an idiot to show it or, alas, as is probably true...it's a hell hole!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 1:44 PM

"close to all" -- my wife and i were just discussing yesterday how hilarious and useless this common real estate expression is. (actually we were discussing its more efficient cousin, "near all.")

Posted by: z at August 4, 2008 1:48 PM

dave, you can check out the block via google maps streetview. it actually looks pretty nice.

Posted by: z at August 4, 2008 1:48 PM

I walk pass this house every other day on my way to the Y and last week the lights were on and I saw that the foyer looks like it has not been touch and the parlor ceiling look like it had ornate plaster work. I think this house has a lot of detail... But you never know.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 4, 2008 1:53 PM

Location is the best in Bedford Corners. Very close to the A/C.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 4, 2008 1:55 PM

Even if the details are intact, is the asking price on target?

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 1:56 PM

11217....only if all the architectural detail is there and the electric, plumbing and heating have been fully upgraded.

And then of course comes the problems of the rents...any stabilized?? Vacant??

I think there is some value to the "on street parking" listed as an amenity!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 2:00 PM

Where the fuck is "Bedford Corners"!!??? Like some other imaged neighborfuckinghoods!

You need to stop that bullshit!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: what at August 4, 2008 2:03 PM

I agree with The What...
What is considered Bedford Corners???

Posted by: mysideofstuy at August 4, 2008 2:06 PM

Rename the neighborhood BEDCO. That way this house will sail to well over 2 million in less than a year. Better scoop it up now so you can triple your profits! Mmm. This Koolaid's good. Got any more?

Posted by: wburghipstersaredirty at August 4, 2008 2:10 PM

Amzi Hill...I would have to say that any closer to that Bedford/Nostrand corner A/C stop would wind up being a liability!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 2:17 PM

A little web research shows that the name Bedford Corners has been in use for hundreds of years...

"The name Bedford Stuyvesant is an extension of the name of the Village of Bedford Corners (founded around 1670) and expanded to include the area of Stuyvesant Heights."

Presumably this was the name for this area before it was merged with the Stuyvesant Heights area and Bed Stuy as we know it was born. Seems a reasonable sub-neighborhood distinction.

Posted by: wasder at August 4, 2008 2:17 PM

This house is actually on a very nice block filled from end to end with Great Houses - price does not seem off the mark. High? yes! But not off the mark, for off the mark please refer to the Corcoran listing on Halsey Street between Marcy and Tompkins @ $950k now thats both off the mark and insane.

And Brownstoner, your tone usaully sets the course of the discussion you really should be more mindful as to not encourage bad behavior. Remember your neighborhood not so long ago was considered not so great and depending on who you ask still is not.

Posted by: make_new at August 4, 2008 2:17 PM

Yes wasder....all true. But then we get into the arguments with what street it begins and ends. Thats where all these discussions lead

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 2:19 PM

"A little web research shows that the name Bedford Corners has been in use for hundreds of years..."

You are a lying piece of shit! I grew up on Hancock bet Bedford and Nostrand 1968- 1994 and NEVER NEVER no one use the term Bedford Corners!!!!

Take your lying neighborhood hijacker ass back to ohio!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: what at August 4, 2008 2:25 PM

daveinbedstuy:

A 3-family building is never subject to rent stabilization. It's as good as vacant, assuming a standard lease term.

Posted by: Polemicist at August 4, 2008 2:35 PM

Aside from the issue of whether or not you ever grew up, What; you probably just referred to it as "my hood" and never knew any better.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 2:38 PM

"A 3-family building is never subject to rent stabilization. It's as good as vacant, assuming a standard lease term."

It's fun pointing out how retarded the posters on this Blog is. Some 2, 3 and 4 families could be subject to Rent Stabilization.

If the Landlord uses public money or Change some classification of building code or other circumstances.

I have a friend who has a 2 family with a store. He has a RS tenant in there from 1966 and can't get rid of him! This is a E true Hollywood story. Stop reading bullshit and go down to HPD or the Building Dept.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: what at August 4, 2008 2:40 PM

Pole...i thought that might be the case but wasn't sure. I've seen problems with other buildings I've looked at where it is still a problem getting "bad" tenants out.

Maybe we shouldn't jump the gun on this one in that regard anyway.

I'm giving all those who say its a nice block the benefit of the doubt. z and Amzi Hill have been on long enough to probably take their word for it

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 2:41 PM

Would it be possible, for conversation sake, to divide Bed-Stuy into quarters using Tomkins Ave and Greene Ave as benchmarks.

Upper left = North west Bed Stuy

Lower left = South west Bed Stuy

Upper right = North east Bed Stuy

Lower right = South east Bed Stuy

No judgements, just trying to keep it simple in terms of figuring out where we are talking about. So, for example, this house would fall in the SW Bed Stuy area.

Posted by: MacD at August 4, 2008 2:43 PM

OK...just spoke to the broker. He had the attitude that he was doing me a favor by answering the questions. He didn't volunteer any info and it was like pulling teeth.

It has not had any work done to the electric, plumbing and heating. On the question about architectural detail he said it "needs work." Doesn't know the neighborhood so doesn't know if the units, given the shape they are in, would get $1,500 per month.

Generally it sounded discouraging...at this price.

However, the units are VACANT.

I couldn't stand talking to him anymore to get additional detail.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 2:48 PM

"It's fun pointing out how retarded the posters on this Blog is."

- The What = Funniest Quote of the Day


"I have a friend.."

- The What = Runner up to the Funniest Quote of the Day

Posted by: Biff Champion at August 4, 2008 2:51 PM

Sorry MacD...that's not what they are arguing about. It's whether or not a particular area gets to be called Bedford Corners or Stuyvesant Heights or any other name.

I think we just stick to the street address between X and Y ave and leave it at that.

That said, I do like BoCoCa!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 2:52 PM

I actually hate this part of Bed Stuy. The positive is that it’s closer to Clinton Hill and possible amenities. Also, close to the A train. The bad is that this part of the neighborhood needs a lot of work and is incredibly dirty.

Dave- you would be happy to know I was over in your part of the hood this weekend. And I’m now bullish on S. Heights. I love what the neighborhood is doing over there- most blocks are clean and lots of people walking on a random Sunday morning. Now, if only it could be closer to the city.

Posted by: 7andfive at August 4, 2008 2:54 PM

Those are nice white vinyl windows on the front facade. That adds at least $249.99 to the sale price.
I always wonder what the real story is when I see offerings like this one.


Posted by: sam at August 4, 2008 2:55 PM

MacD
Green Ave runs east and west
Tompkins runs north)south

So using your divisions it would be:

Upper left = North east Bed Stuy

Lower left = North west Bed Stuy

Upper right = South east Bed Stuy

Lower right = South west Bed Stuy

Posted by: make_new at August 4, 2008 2:56 PM

Thanks 7andfive. Its got a real neighborhood feel. Distance to Manhattan isn't the issue for me..its good places to eat and drink within walking distance.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 2:57 PM

whether or not a renter has a rent-stabilized lease they are still a heartache to get rid of.
Even if the don't pay rent.
And if they are over 61, forget it, the house is theirs.
Welcome to Brooklyn Housing Court.

Posted by: sam at August 4, 2008 2:59 PM

make new...you are an idiot. MacD picked a north-south Ave and an east-west street and got it all right. Do you have problems figuring out the streets and avenues in Manhattan too???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 3:00 PM

Is there a weather vane or finial on the turret roof or not? I don't know why brokers don't provide this information.

Posted by: dittoburg at August 4, 2008 3:01 PM

sam...you are definitely correct but i confirmed, in this case, the building is vacant. At least thats what the dummy on the other end of the line told me.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 3:02 PM

better make it a lightning rod too dittoburg.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 3:03 PM

Vacant. Mechanicals need upgrading. TLC through out. What would it fetch?

Posted by: bayridgegirl at August 4, 2008 3:06 PM

Dave,
the fact that it is vacant is good. however the fact that it was cut up into three units and occupied by renters for the past sixty years is not so good.
The interiors are probably a complete wreck, the mechanicals a complete wreck, so it would require a soup-to nuts renovation. Probably about 120/foot which would be about $450,000 plus about a year's time to accomplish. Serious issues for someone wanting to make it into a home. If you want to rent the units in more or less as is condition, maybe it is an OK investment but I don't know what walk-ups on this block would bring in per month.

Posted by: sam at August 4, 2008 3:15 PM

I know the potential of Bed Stuy is huge and the architecture is incredible, but there's just been so much bad news about it lately. All the foreclosures, that murder this weekend of the guy with the knife...I just think that Bed Stuy needs to cool off for another few years while the residents do some work on the neighborhood so that the next time we are in for a boom cycle, it will once again be ripe for the picking.

Right now though, I don't think Bed Stuy is a great place to invest at prices like this. Just my two cents. I think prices still have a ways to drop in all of Brooklyn, and the prices in Bed Stuy seem extremely inflated for what you get.

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 3:16 PM

11217...that was in Ocean Hill...east of Bed Stuy. As for forclosures, they are occurring everywhere. There are now foreclosures in the Hamptons. These two issues have no bearing on what we will refer to as the "southern part" of Bed Stuy!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 3:24 PM

Sorry Dave. Just going by what the news says...

*Darryl Battle, 20, was shot Saturday morning in his Bedford-Stuyvesant apartment after he threatened officers with a knife during a prearranged meeting in his home, police said.


And I realize there are foreclosures (and crime for that matter) everywhere, but there are a higher number in Bed Stuy than most locales. That would be worrisome to me when looking at a potential gutjob which costs 859K in a marginal neighborhood in the worst economic conditions in perhaps decades.

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 3:36 PM

This also says Bed Stuy...

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/anger-simmers-in-bed-stuy-over-police-shooting/?scp=1&sq=shooting%20bed%20stuy&st=cse

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 3:38 PM

"A little web research shows that the name Bedford Corners has been in use for hundreds of years..."

You are a lying piece of shit! I grew up on Hancock bet Bedford and Nostrand 1968- 1994 and NEVER NEVER no one use the term Bedford Corners!!!!

Take your lying neighborhood hijacker ass back to ohio!

WHAT--I didn't invent that term and only looked it up on the internet in response to you (or somebody else) saying what is Bedford Corners (as used by Amzi Hill). Do a google search and you will find copious references to this as a neighborhood. So I am not a lying piece of shit. And I am not from Ohio. Born in Brooklyn. You are not the only native Brooklynite on this board.

Posted by: wasder at August 4, 2008 3:39 PM

11217, I'm looking at a story in yesterday's Post about street crime this summer. It cites:
- 5 muggings in Riverside Park
- 1 assault in Central Park
- 1 mugging on the Upper East Side
- 6 Pratt students mugged in Clinton Hill
- 1 mugging in Bed-Stuy (but a good Samaritan retrieved the woman's purse)
- shots fired into a holiday party in Harlem
- shots fired into a holiday party on Staten Island.
This one article is not meant to be statistically significant. I merely want to point out that there is crime in Bed-Stuy, but we've hardly cornered the market.

Posted by: StuyMom at August 4, 2008 3:39 PM

Dave is right 11217, Ft Greene is closer to this house which is in 11217 than the murder that took place in Ocean Hill

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 4, 2008 3:43 PM

"Police said that detectives went to Battle's address at 650 Decatur St. to question him about check fraud " That's east of Saratoga...4 1/2 blocks east of Malcolm X.

As for the $859k it won't get anywhere near that nor would it have in '06 or '07.

But you won't find anything close to that building needing a gut job at anywhere near that price from Clinton Hill westward. That's what "pioneering" is all about.

As for the murder, Rev. Sharpton is looking into that.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 3:44 PM

Crime in this part of BS is really not all that high.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 4, 2008 3:45 PM

There have been 9 murders so far in 2008 in this police precinct. From what I can see that is the 3rd highest of any precinct in Brooklyn.

9 murders might not be a lot compared with 49 in 1990, but it's still a lot when you're paying almost a million dollars for a shell.

Sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 3:49 PM

And that 9 does not cover the one from this weekend...

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 3:50 PM

Since 1010wins, Metro and the NYTimes all said the murder took place in Bed Stuy, you'll have to forgive me for not knowing that the precise location was in Ocean Hill.

You might want to talk to the news outlets about what the borders of your neighborhood are so there's no more confusion.

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 3:52 PM

I think this is a Montrose Morris house. This block is talked about in great detail in 1894 article in the Brooklyn Eagle it is a great old article.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 4, 2008 3:53 PM

11217...how many of them were "police" shootings?? Those type of murders always seem to involve the use of much more force!!!

If you have a gun and the other guy has a knife do you really need to kill him to stop him???

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 3:54 PM

Of course there are varying degrees of murder...random, police brutality, etc etc.

Obviously murders like this aren't the same as a random act, but I still don't see how one can justify these prices. That's my only point. Not that Bed Stuy (parts of it) isn't a wonderful neighborhood.

I simply don't see though how anything near this price is on the mark. The crime, combined with the lack of services, means to me that you are STILL paying for gentrification that has yet to happen and in this market, that way of thinking is absurd since who knows when another wave of gentrification might hit Bed Stuy.

This is the perfect house for someone willing to take the risk of moving to an area with crime and lack of services, but is already priced above what a middle class family could swing.

I just don't see why someone would choose this over Ditmas or Kensington or other areas of South Brooklyn which are much safer and have more services nearby within walking distance.

If this place were 500K, I could see it...

Such is the story of NYC, I suppose.

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 4:03 PM

11217 there has been 3 murders in the 79th precinct this year where is house is located. You information is negative and WRONG. http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs079pct.pdf

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 4, 2008 4:05 PM

Amzi Hill:

Sorry for that. Somehow I came up with the 81st precinct in my search. I trust yours.

All of my comments remain the same, however.

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 4:07 PM

And where did you come up with "shell", 11217? I see that the house needs work, but I didn't see shell written anywhere.

Posted by: rh at August 4, 2008 4:17 PM

Enough already. Either the neighborhood is for you or its not, for many different reasons.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 4:20 PM

I just want to say that the house looks magnificent from the outside (except for the cheap windows). Thank you Amzi Hill for the attribtion to Montrose Morris. It does look like his work. There are amazing treasures in Bed Stuy.

Posted by: sam at August 4, 2008 4:22 PM

81st is in eastern Bedford Stuyvesant all of Ocean Hill. All of the murders have happened in Ocean Hill near Bushwick or east Williamsburg.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 4, 2008 4:23 PM

I wish the neighborhood WAS for me. I love the housing stock, great access to transportation and Manhattan. I just think it's a shame that prices have moved beyond the actual gentrification of the neighborhood. The area is gentrifying in "fits and starts" as one woman in some article (nytimes) said, because it went from rock bottom prices to these prices in a very short amount of time.

What happened to the prices in Ft. Greene, Carroll Gardens, PS, etc happened over the course of 20-30 years.

Not 8.

You are right though Dave. Some neighborhoods are attractive to certain people and that's a good thing. I'm glad you're there trying to make the place better for everyone.

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 4:26 PM

Make New:

Really ... well ... when you look at a map, that's how it is layed out visually (my way), although yours is probably technically more correct. To me, what your point really illustrates, however, is why the "simple" quad system isn't used. It isn't so simple. Carry on with Bedford Corners, Stuyvesant Heights, BoCoCa, whatever. I know the area pretty well, so I can follow whatever description you create. Daveinbedstuy's observation about cross-streets is probably as good a way to distinguish areas as any other.

Posted by: MacD at August 4, 2008 4:27 PM

Back to the house: They probably got the $859K price using comps. I looked at a place around there a year + ago and it went for $850K, but that was at the very tail end of the hype. Now, I can't see a property like this selling for more than $750K -- especially if it needs a lot of work. People are seriously out of touch with reality. It'll be interesting to follow this.

Posted by: MacD at August 4, 2008 4:32 PM

The "fits and starts" starts woman you're referring to is Petra from Bed Stuy Blog. She wasn't too happy with that article because she was under the impression they were speaking about Myrtle Ave, not the entire area of Bed Stuy. This house is not near Myrtle.

Posted by: rh at August 4, 2008 4:35 PM

Guys please....from now on.....all stabbings and shootings happen in Bed-Stuy

If you are ever trying to justify inflated home valuations, then the home in question is NOT in Bed-Stuy. It could be in:

Northwest Stuy
Bedford Corners
Indian Road
Stuyvesant Heights
Pratt Slope
Fulton Narrows
Bedford Village
A-express train Square
25 minutes to Manhattanville
Gentriburg
New Netherlands
Bedford-Gothams
Weeksville
Bronzville
Strongville
Sub-prime-ville
Value dropping like an-anville

Posted by: slappy at August 4, 2008 4:46 PM

Rh:

Fits and starts makes sense though because Bed Stuy hasn't been able to capture a tipping point of middle income people who are the ones who spend the time and money to really invest in the neighborhood. They are there, sure...but not in the numbers necessary to make for drastic change. Some people might consider that a good thing...

There seem to be many middle income black families who have kept the neighborhood together for the past few decades, then there are the $2000 a month renters at the Mynt who just want the services there yesterday and then there are the people who spent 800K - a million plus on a house in the past 5 years.

The people who changed many of the other Brownstone neighborhoods were those who spent 250K-500K on a house, spent time renovating it, cleaning up the streets, going to PTA meetings and working with their block associations to clean up crime.

Bed Stuy needs more of those folks, but was kinda missed because it hit it's stride right at the beginning of the largest housing boom in U.S. history.

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 4:46 PM

11217 You are totally right and you are obviously not bashing BedStuy by no means. You were also right before - this house is overpriced.


Slappy, I'm actually moving to Bedford-Gothams next week. And I'm very excited :) Bringing my Tea Cup Yorkie and Espresso maker as well. Yippee!!

Posted by: BSandCHBorderBaby at August 4, 2008 5:02 PM

Slappy lives in South Park.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 5:09 PM

11217

Those kind of people never left BedStuy. Who do you think are selling brownstones? They're the people who organized for the K-8 school on Gates Avenue or sent their kids to Holy Rosary. When the kids were older they took the Nostrand Avenue bus to Hudde and Midwood (eg. Bill Thompson.)

Do you know how the Brower Park branch of the BPL started? Mothers didn't want their children crossing Atlantic Avenue to go to the Macon Branch or Eastern Parkway to get to the Eastern Parkway branch. That was in the '60s.

Posted by: BrooklynIsHome at August 4, 2008 5:42 PM

Fits and starts may make sense to you, but I'm just telling you the facts, that the woman was talking about the opposite end of Bed Stuy. Direct from her blog: http://www.bedstuyblog.com/2008/07/28/bed-stuy-in-the-news/#comments
"When I was contacted by the reporter, he told me that he was interested in doing a story on the changes occurring on Myrtle Avenue. He interviewed several residents and business owners along the avenue, and he even tried to get in touch with the pastor of the church located on Myrtle between Nostrand and Marcy (the church’s name escapes me and I’m not sure if he ever got the chance to interview the pastor). I’m sure that some of the negative feelings people have been having towards his piece would never have emerged had the title been “Growing Pains Come and Go on Myrtle Avenue.”

I guess I'm one of those middle income people you speak of. I don't have time to go to meetings because I'm too busy fixing up my house. Just like a lot of other old timers and newcomers.

No offense, but you're more negative than my husband. And he's bad! ;)

Posted by: rh at August 4, 2008 5:56 PM

You are so right rh. Right now I am busy with renovations and trying to keep my block clean. Maybe in the next 2 years I can start with bigger projects in the neighborhood like planting more trees,courting new business, landmarking and PTA etc.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 4, 2008 6:19 PM

Well rh, you could ask any person in my life and I guarantee they'd say I'm one of the most optimistic people they know. True story.

You see what you want to see, but the fact is that if you are here trying to say that this house should be priced at 859K in THIS market with a complete update needing to be done (including mechanicals, says Dave) in a neighborhood which has a handful of murders a year and poor (but improving, I'm guessing) schools, little in the way of services for a person/family spending this kind of money on a house, then YOU are part of the reason why we just had a massive housing bubble.

You don't seem to even be able to see past your own rose colored glasses. This price is absurd for what/where it is. That's my only point. Not that Bed Stuy isn't a terrific place to live for some. I'm thrilled there are people like you there doing great things for the neighborhood. But if there were more of you, the area would be even better. No?

I don't fault you for loving your neighborhood or your house, but I do fault you for trying to convince people that a house in this condition is worth 859K in Bed Stuy in 2008.

I have no idea why you are arguing the "fits and starts" thing either. Would you classify things differently?? If Myrtle's redevelopment can be said to be happening in fits and starts, then I'd say the rest of Bed Stuy is well behind that curve, because I personally think the transformation of Myrtle has been swift and drastic. In a (mostly) good way.

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 7:24 PM

And I didn't mean my last comment to sound angry at all. I appreciate your views as you live in the neighborhood and I clearly don't. I don't want to seem anti Bed Stuy at all, because I'm not. I don't think it's the neighborhood for me, but I find the fabric and diversity of all Brooklyn neighborhoods incredible and fascinating.

I was more commenting on this particular house, which by way of this thread, you seem to be defending the entire neighborhood.

This house is overpriced for what it is, in my opinion. And 859K (probably needing 300K to bring up to date?) is affordable to probably 20% of the population. There was a time when the percentage of people who were interested (and could afford) in reviving some of these great old neighborhoods was much, much greater. That's all.

Good luck with the renovations.

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 7:34 PM

so much misinformation! sure the area was still plagued with crime in the early 90s, but this area is safe and covered by operation impact. the 3 murders (down from 12 at this time last year) were nowhere near these blocks. this house is one of a series of 8 (I think). These houses have lots of original details, with walnut parlor w. burlwood inlay (similar to clinton hill mansions), oak & mohagany on other floors. Original floors are very detailed. restaurants are coming this fall on nostrand/hancock, and the area is changing. A lot of good decent families in the area. AS for the price, not sure coz there's still an sro status to convert, but no need for bullet proof vest!!!

Posted by: BedStuyWallSt_in10mins at August 4, 2008 8:02 PM

What, just because you never heard of something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Time for an education:

Bedford Corners is an historic name for the area around Bedford/Nostrand/Fulton Sts. As a matter of fact, the Dutch bought land from the Kanarsee Indians, and in 1668, the first public building was approved for building (a tavern, of course) in the township of Bedford, which was an anglicized form of the Dutch word Bestevarr, which they translated from the Indian word for “council meeting place”. The name Bedford Corners evolved from that, as the area became a busy trading and transit hub for merchants and settlers from Flatbush and other towns in Brooklyn and Long Island. The wealthy, and slaveholding Lefferts family was one of the most successful landowners and business owners in the area. In 1776, following the Battle of Brooklyn, the first large battle of the Revolutionary War, Bedford, and other parts of Brooklyn, were then occupied by the British for the next eight years, finally leaving in 1783. Incidentally, when they left, the British denuded the forests of Brooklyn, shipping tons of lumber back to England. Hardly any trees in Brooklyn predate the Revolutionary War.

The names Bedford and Bedford Corners appear on old maps of Brooklyn, and in documents dating back from these periods. Today, the name is used to designate that area of Bed Stuy near the original town, specifically Atlantic to about Gates, Franklin to around Throop, give or take a few blocks. This was a large upper middle class area in the 19th century, and is filled with architecturally significant homes, apartment buildings and churches. It contains some of the finest work of Montrose Morris, Amzi Hill and other great Brooklyn based architects. This house is on one of the prime blocks in this area, and will certainly be landmarked, especially if Montrose Morris designed it.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 4, 2008 8:08 PM

Sam & 11217 - just curious have you renovated a brownstone now or in the past? What i think is inflated is your 300-400k renovation numbers? How exactly does that break down? I have and I am still in the process of renovating a brownstone, that is a legal 3 family and was broken up into apartments. The broker never showed pictures of the inside and you guys would have speculated and trashed it. Well it needed updated plumbing, electrical and complete renovation. We wanted a 'nice' reno b/c we live in it as a one family. We are 90% complete and have prob spent close to 100k (not including furniture - still don't have much). We have what most would consider 'high end' appliances, granite, solid wood floors, recessed lighting (sorry brownstoner) and we stripped and stained all of the wood. This has taken 2 years but no where near 300-400k and many that come to our home say it's 'one of the nicest' reno's they have seen. We are not DIY so there is no sweat equity here - i'm just saying these comments about reno's are more outrageous than the house prices!

Posted by: bkny at August 4, 2008 8:20 PM

I'm not interested in joining another crime in Bed Stuy discussion, as others have handled it well. All I will say is once again, people forget the size of the area. Bed Stuy is huge. Again - Bed Stuy is huge. Media people are clueless. If there is a violent crime in central Brooklyn, they report it as Bed Stuy, whether it is or not. They have done this for years. I can't tell you how many times over the past 25 years I've had people ask me if I felt safe there because of some highly publicized crime that did not even take place in the entirety of BS. This block is not a high crime block or area.

I also don't think you can judge a book by its cover or a house by its windows. I have been constantly suprised by the interiors of homes that from the outside were no great shakes. If this is a Monty Morris house, he was building for an upper middle class customer, and this house would have had very nice appointments. Who knows what could still be in there? Vinyl windows mean that someone at least saw the need to replace the old ones, so maybe they also kept up the inside, and only put in what was needed for apartment living. Most landlords in this part of Bklyn were too poor to do more than sandwich a kitchenette and a bathroom into spaces that were once dressing rooms or closets.

If it still has some goodies, and is in pretty good shape otherwise, I see it going for anywhere from $785K to $840K. Why? Location: good block, historic provenance, close proximity to subway and Restoration Plaza, soon to be landmarked area. There are a lot of newly restored homes on this block, and a very strong interest in the community. I'm still bullish on BS (and CH), and this area in particular, is already seeing changes.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 4, 2008 8:26 PM

I take it back...Montose Morris (the Brownstoner reader, not the architect) is the most optimistic person I know!! (or not know).

Nice to hear your thoughts on the area and house.

We'll have to keep track of what it sells for. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Learn the most from your mistakes...right?

Posted by: 11217 at August 4, 2008 8:33 PM

Dave, you think you know anything about bedstuy, if you were smart enough, you would actually do comps for this house and not insult everyone in this forum. Tough guy!!!

Posted by: 718 at August 4, 2008 9:06 PM

Everyone who thinks that this house is overpriced are out of your minds, since I am a real estate agent who works down the block from this house, you all will see that this house will actually sell for the price it is asking. Kudos for the agent selling this property as to I will help him/her sell this property at the asking price since thats how much bedstuy should be worth.

Posted by: 718 at August 4, 2008 9:09 PM

Montrose Morris - How much value do you think gets added to a house because it is in an historic district? I used to think it would add significantly, but I've come to learn that not everyone places value on that sort of thing. Much to my suprise, I've found that details and condition of a home seem to be more eye catching and money fetching than a house with less of the same in an historic location. I realize that when it comes down to it, it's all in the eye of the beholder, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are --or if a general consensus exists here (as if it ever would) -- since you added the historic factor to your list of selling points.

Posted by: MacD at August 4, 2008 9:36 PM

I live a block and a half from this house and have walked past it many times, although I haven't taken notice of that particular building. It's a lovely block in a great part of Bed-Stuy. Before I moved here, from 1989 until 2007 I lived in Clinton Hill, half a block from Mr. Brownstoner. At least we have a decent supermarket (Foodtown at Brooklyn Ave. and Fulton St.) here, more than I can say for CH. And the A train comes a lot more often than the C so even though we are 3/4 of a mile further from Manhattan here, it's a lot faster on the subway.

Not saying that it's worth the asking price, but you get a hell of a lot more house for your money here than in Clinton Hill. As for rentals, unless they are hovels, floor-throughs go for $1300-1700/month in this part of Bed-Stuy.

Posted by: rf at August 4, 2008 9:46 PM

Amzi Hill:

How can one get that 1894 Brooklyn Eagle article? Is it easy to search for that article in the online archives for the Eagle? It would be great to read it!

Posted by: Mongoose at August 4, 2008 10:07 PM

lol- bedco is next to dobro (new name for downtown brooklyn) the newcomers are so trendy - they have a new name for everything.

Posted by: momo284 at August 4, 2008 10:29 PM

I have to agree with "The What." I lived in Bed Stuy for 8 years up until 2004 and not ONCE did I EVER hear of anyone call that area Bedford Corners. It really does not matter what the historical name is, the fact is that this is just yet another attempt by real estate "professionals" to call an "emerging" neighborhood by a name, any name, other than that which it really is. This is much like many blocks of what had always been called Bed Stuy, bit someone is now allegedly Clinton Hill. What a bunch of nonsense. This house is in Bed Stuy!!! Period.

Posted by: classc1 at August 4, 2008 10:36 PM

Don't worry Asshats after November the names of the neighborhoods will go back to their rightful names. The Asshats will be shiting in their pants about the imploding Mutant Asset Bubble. Beford Corners Get The Fuck Out Of Here!!!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: what at August 4, 2008 11:06 PM

November is more than 86 days from now. Your shifting timeline is making me nauseous What.

I'm trying to think of an appropriate comeback to your prediction for us asshats. What would be an equal torture for the What akin to "shiting in their pants?" Ah yes, I know! Come November you will be forced to tolerate your neighbors yet again, as Thanksgiving brings another holiday season, the world turns and we all continue living the reasonable human lives that we live. Oh such torture to see people getting by and appreciating their lives I am sure you will spitting mad.

Someday this bore is gonna bend...

Posted by: wasder at August 5, 2008 12:08 AM

classc1, I never said that Bedford Corners was NOT a part of Bed Stuy. It is, just as Stuyvesant Heights is a part of Bed Stuy. The only people who think otherwise may actually be real estate agents. However, large neighborhoods are broken up into smaller sections for lots of reasons, most having nothing to do with trying to avoid speaking the name of where you live.

Harlem has Hamilton Heights, Sugar Hill, Central Harlem, Mount Morris Park area, Striver's Row, and Manhattanville, just to name some of it's neigborhood names, and no one with a brain denies that they are in Harlem. The same is true here. Perhaps there are those who would use a designation like Bedford Corners to distance themselves from the rest of BS, but someone can always do something negative with anything. What are you going to do?

I see nothing sinister or wrong with calling the Bedford area "Bedford Corners", especially in terms of a historic district designation. What's the harm? It's still Bed Stuy.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 5, 2008 12:21 AM

Well said Montrose. It is comical to get worked up about such things anyway, but your comparison to Harlem is spot on.

Posted by: wasder at August 5, 2008 12:27 AM

MacD, I don’t think historic designation has an immediate effect upon home pricing, especially in neighborhoods like Crown Heights and Bed Stuy. There are too many other factors at work here, such as the general and local economies, the perceptions of safety and higher crime rates, and frankly, the reality that we are talking about home pricing in an urban, predominantly black neighborhood.

In the long run, however, I do see historic designation status becoming a factor in pricing. I see it this way: a neighborhood is designated; it gets media, political and local attention. This designation can be used as a carrot to persuade the city to do some of the quality of life things needed. (In the case of CHN, needed for years.) Neighborhood pride is instilled. People take renewed pride in fixing up and keeping their homes and blocks clean. Blocks are looking good; some services are finally coming in. People are coming into the neighborhood and finding it good, and homes sell. Perhaps some of these homes at least list for more, in part because of the aforementioned good vibes, but in the end, buyers determine what is, or isn’t a fair price for what they see.

I personally don’t want to see too many million dollar homes in CHN. I don’t think we are ready, and I don’t want the neighborhood becoming small pockets of gentrification surrounded by a greater community still in dire need of economic help. Historic designation is great, I’m proud to say I live in an historic district. I do want it to mean something, though. I want it to mean that everyone on my block in some way benefits from that recognition, and their lives are a bit better or a bit easier. Long way to go there.

(BTW, my email to you on a separate matter was returned, plz send me a valid address, thanks!)

Posted by: Montrose Morris at August 5, 2008 12:43 AM

I will run this story tomorrow but here is a sneak peak.

You see you America has been hijack by the Big Boys! They take your wife and bend her over the table and you are stupid to stop it!

While the good ole Brownstone owners here are massaging each other prostates! You Tax Dollars are being used to save Wall Street and China debt. SS and Medicare will have to be cut in the future and the price on your investment wont mean shit! Why you ask? Because you are too fucking stupid!

US Blackmailed By China?

Fannie's Mudd Soothed Asian Investors as Bonds Rose (Update2)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=azswcZQvmUX0&refer=home

Asian investors were among the most important groups to soothe because central banks, financial institutions and funds in the region own $800 billion of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's $5.2 trillion in debt, according to data compiled by the Treasury. U.S. officials were concerned that sales from the region would push lending rates higher, said the people, who declined to be named because the discussions were confidential.

Earth to Asshats! You need to read this article and understand this. When the Olympics are over China is going to dump their US debt on the market and when this happens, buy a hardhat!

The What (85 days)

Someday this war is gonna end.......

Posted by: what at August 5, 2008 1:00 AM

Dude--even if all of that stuff were true and came to pass what the hell can I do about it sitting here in Clinton Hill right now? Not too much. So...I am going to live my life, try to be a good neighbor, and participate in the political process to the best of my ability. If there are those kinds of forces at work, little old me can't do much about it. But I can't also allow my life to come to a grinding halt because of the possibility of economic upheaval. I suspect the world will keep turning.

Posted by: wasder at August 5, 2008 1:12 AM

I am glad that you are updating your "countdown to doom" counter though. 85 days huh? You do realize that you have in your last two screeds said we were doomed in November (well after the 85 days) and after the Olympics (well before the 85 days are up). So which is it going to be--November, or this month?

Posted by: wasder at August 5, 2008 1:14 AM

Mongoose there is a search section in the old Eagle online papers and you can type in Hancock Street in Bedford and the article should come up. It talks about this grand old street and all the high society people that lives on Hancock in 1894. Names such as John C. Kelley that lives in the huge house at 247 and his neighbor who name slips me that has the other huge mansion two doors down towards Marcy. In doing the research on my house there is a similar article on MacDonough Street from the following year. These articles are so neat to read. The big thing is the building boom of 1890s that has happend in the last 15 years. When you read these articles the next time you walk down these Bedford Stuyvesant streets you really feel the ghost of the past.
When these turn of the century wealthy WASPY people became old in the late 1920s and 1930s and sold there houses to middle class Jewish and Italian people. Then 20 (1950s) years later sold the houses in this area for way too much to West Indians and Black Americans that now had a mortgage so high that they could not afford to renovate these Bedford Stuyvesant houses. This became a blessing for everyone today because many of these homes on the market today came from the people who brought 40 -50 years ago and many people did not do anything to these homes.
This house could be a old houses lover dream.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 5, 2008 1:16 AM

MM - The best way to reach me by e-mail is:
skr200 at NYU dot EDU. It's the only one I check daily.

Posted by: MacD at August 5, 2008 6:16 AM

11217, I was picking on you because you were making passing judgment without having your facts straight. Truth is, I have no idea whether or not the house is worth the asking price and I never said I did. Just because it has newer nasty windows doesn't mean it lacks in detail. My house has the worst updated windows ever made which we can't afford to replace just yet. But the detail remains inside. Which brings me to MacD's question: Personally, a house is more important to me than the fact that it's in an historic district. I want details, space and close proximity to subway, city and amenities. For me, condition of the property is secondary to the details. I love to restore these babies! If this house has details, then perhaps it IS worth the price to someone?

Posted by: rh at August 5, 2008 8:10 AM

OK 718. You know everything because you're a real estate agent. Funny how they all seem to think that!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 5, 2008 8:53 AM

Hey RH - Your appreciation of visual details over condition of house/location (per Historic status) made me interested to know who you are. So I snooped a little and went to your profile and alas you are a photographer -- which makes perfect sense. Along the lines of photography, I was just thinking this morning about a very small project that I'd like to do on my block, but in order to pull it off, I'll need a certain type of camera and equipment. Would it be okay if we contacted each other? My email address is posted above, I'd appreciate hearing from you.

Thanks.

Posted by: MacD at August 5, 2008 9:46 AM

I really wish that Bedford Corners section of Bedford Stuyvesant would get landmarked. Verona, Arlington, Halsey, Macon, Jefferson and Hancock should have been landmarked years ago when Stuyvesant Heights got theres. The blocks in this area are really nice between Bedford but really Nostrand and Marcy/Tompkins.

Posted by: Amzi Hill at August 5, 2008 10:14 AM

Amzi Hill: Thanks! I'll give it a try.

Posted by: Mongoose at August 5, 2008 12:09 PM

In case anyone is still checking this thread, here's a candid report from the open house last Sunday. I stopped by mostly out of curiosity, although I am keeping an eye out for investment property. This house is full of unusual and charming period details: beautiful fireplace surrounds, window surrounds, tilework, built-ins, etc. It was clearly used as an SRO at one point ... realtor says the C of O is 3 family, so perhaps it has been legally changed, but be sure to verify that if you make an offer. The parlor floor has been renovated into a cute apartment (nice reno, not a "developer's special"). The other floors all need substantial work. This house could work well for a young couple who's willing to live on the parlor floor while renovating the other floors. Linoleum on the stairs and in the hallways... this is usually good news, because the original flooring often stays well-preserved underneath. Clearly there was a bad roof leak at one point (perhaps still?) and there's some sagging that I would personally want a structural engineer to look at. Yet in spite of all that, I was really drawn to this place. I hope it gets bought by someone who wants to make it their home, because the details cry out for loving restoration. There are fun little archeological surprises everywhere. It's not for the faint of heart, but in the right hands it could be a really charming owner's duplex with two floor-throughs above, or owner's triplex with a garden rental.
The block has an active block association and a large proportion of lovely, community-minded residents. There are a few blighted-looking houses, but most are very well-kept, with pretty front gardens, and several are downright immaculate. It's in the proposed landmark district.

Posted by: StuyMom at August 19, 2008 10:03 AM

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