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August 11, 2008

Everybody Loves IKEA

ikea_0808.jpg
Well, that's not exactly true, but the Times reported this weekend that Red Hook neighbors once vehemently opposed to the big box store have learned to appreciate it. They don't love it for its economic development potential, but for its unexpected benefits: cheap hot dogs, free water taxi rides, the patch of grass they added along the waterfront. Those focused on the bigger picture still have some stuff to grumble about: overcrowded city buses, industrial space reserved for retail when we need more shipyards and silence on how many local residents have actually been hired there. At least we have the Swedish meatballs.
Brooklyn Neighbors Admit Big Box Isn't All Bad [NY Times]
IKEA. Photo by Listen Missy!




Posted by lisa at 9:29 AM | Comments (13)
Categories: Red Hook, Retail

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Comments

The waterfront space did it for me...

Posted by: itsagas at August 11, 2008 9:38 AM

Welcome to Brownstoner Lisa - I see it didnt take you too long to adopt the typical (brownstoner) response to being WRONG (not you personally - just the site) - snarky commentary and misrepresentation.

Face it - anti-Ikea folks were mostly WRONG about their major gripes. And trying to minimize Ikea's benefits with subtle (not) comments about "cheap" hot dogs or calling a beautiful esplanade/park a "patch" of grass will not change it.

I will never figure out why people (on both sides of every/any issue) think that hyperbole, lies or exaggeration advances their agenda -

You gain so much more credibility for your positions (whatever they are) if you just tell the TRUTH (in this case critics have so far been WRONG). Everyone can see that (so far) Ikea is mostly a nice public benefit with little downside - why not at least admit it? - and then when you oppose the next project at least you wont be viewed as a sad, lying, obstructionist with an agenda that trumps easily observable FACTS.

Posted by: fsrg at August 11, 2008 9:46 AM

My reaction to this piece:

Duh.

I think any sane and rational human being was aware that the IKEA in Red Hook would largely be a successful project.

Posted by: 11217 at August 11, 2008 10:57 AM

Lisa;

I second fsrq's comments. I find it laughable that you state that those "focused on the bigger picture" are still grumbling about "industrial space reserved for retail when we need more shipyards".

Well, let these so-called big thinkers, who actually wouldn't know a shipyyard if it hit them, ponder this: there is NO CHANCE that a shipyard will be located in the Brooklyn waterfront in the near or mid-term.

This wishful thinking for a by-gone era is the very reason that so much of Brooklyn's formerly-industrial waterfront lies fallow and rotting. This land will never be developed unless it is zoned for other uses.

We live in a town where my auto mechanic posts labor rates of $65/hour. I invite all of these "big-thinkers" who want a shipyard to use their own money to open one, and pay these prevailing wages, together with our utility rates. Let them show us, these "big-thinkers", how a profit can be made under these circumstances. Finally, please have these big-thinkers show us how plate steel, welding gas tanks and large containers of industrial paint will be schlepped through the streets of Brooklyn without complaint. Let them show us how they will sand-blast this steel, and not distrurb the very "big-thinkers" who pine for the glory days.

Great "reporting", Lisa.

Posted by: benson at August 11, 2008 11:28 AM

Excuse me while grit my teeth, quietly pulling my hair out strand by strand and curse at my computer screen. And while I am not going to get into it again - I lack the energy after my near heart attack accompanied by screaming and jumping up and down to the point I scared my four year old while watching the American men's swim team inch out the French team to win the gold a few moments ago (I'm still shaking a little) - NOT "any sane, rational person" loves Ikea in Red Hook.

Why all this ridiculous snipping at Lisa? You got your damned Ikea, okay? It's there, and it ain't going away. So why the vitriol at the mere suggestion that NOT everyone was or is all for it?

I hated it then, I still hate it. And while I can acknowledge some of the positive things the giant blue garden gnome has done (though I'm still awaiting the end to this free water taxi), I certainly have not reversed my position in total.

So enough with the "all the critics have been WRONG, just ADMIT it!" bullshit. We weren't wrong then, we aren't wrong now. Can we just agree to disagree?

Posted by: Nokilissa at August 11, 2008 12:22 PM

Sorry Nokillisa - sometimes things are more black and white - sometimes time and circumstances reveal that certain positions were WRONG.

For Example on May 12, 2008 at 9:15 YOU said:

One of the very best parts of New York City is about to become a congested traffic nightmare crawling with Ikea comers.

Now we can DEFINITIVELY say that (now-2mo past opening) -this was WRONG.

Or when the lawsuit brought by John McGettrick said that the waterfront would just end up being a desultory promenade next to a hideous parking lot?

Again, while slightly more subjective then traffic - only a real biased view could really maintain that position now. So that prediction would also be=WRONG

The point is - we can agree to disagree on things that arent essentially demonstrable - but when your WRONG - then admit it.

Which is why I am giving Lisa $hit too....it is simply sour grapes to characterize Ikea's supporters of just taking a "narrow" view in favor of "cheap" hot dogs and a "patch" of grass - it is simply disingenuous. This is especially true when the #1 reason for Ikea opposition (Traffic) has 100% NOT occurred.

Posted by: fsrg at August 11, 2008 12:50 PM

Nokilissa,
you have to buy the house first, without the house, IKEA is worthless to you.
Maybe that is why you (think) you hate it.
I think it has done a lot to spiff up that sad corner of the
Red Hook, and now one can appreicate the views, and the ferry to Wall Street is sweet.

Posted by: sam at August 11, 2008 12:57 PM

Saying you don't like or want Ikea is one thing Nokilissa, but saying that you hate it because of the traffic (and then it is deemed that traffic has not been a problem) would indicate that you were/are wrong.

If you simply don't like Ikea, you should have said so.

I also find the reference to the "patch of grass" ridiculous. It is quite a bit more than a patch of grass in my book, and one of the greener areas I've seen in all of Red Hook.

Posted by: 11217 at August 11, 2008 2:07 PM

John McGettrick, a racist, elitist jackass, has zero authority when it comes to Red Hook’s economic and environmental well-being. The dude is a slumlord who speeds around the neighborhood in his V-8 and tries to blackmail Red Hook newcomers into supporting his hipster-bourgeoisie agenda. Moreover, he has alienated nearly is every credible community stakeholder and elected official including but not limited to Greg O’Connell, Sister Paulette from Good Shepherds Service, Phaedra Thomas formerly of SWBIDC, Milton Puryear of the Brooklyn Greenway Initiative, Congresswoman Nydia Velasquez, Councilmember Sara Gonzalez, Marty etc. The man is malevolent combination of Don Quixote, Ahab and Yosemite Sam and a mean son of a b-tch too. Plus, he is a liar. He didn't want to save the Todd Shipyards, he wanted to turn it into luxury condos!!

Nokilissa, if you want to stop the next big box from landing in RH, I recommend you lose the man with the ‘stache and build a more inclusive coalition. With Mister M at the helm, you just come across as a bunch of whiny white people.

Posted by: eernish at August 11, 2008 3:02 PM

There's more to the opposition than just McGettrick and it's unfair to summarize it as such. There were a lot of people, myself included, who were angry at the callous way IKEA destroyed a working, needed piece of history for a parking lot, when they actually could have coexisted (and I was at the community board meetings where real life examples were shown of working waterfront next to retail/commercial space). The graving dock had business lined up for years into the future. THey were a good neighbor to my knowledge, a needed municipal asset, and a direct link to Red Hook's past-much of which has been lost to the wrecking ball over the years.

And while as a resident I'm grateful that the traffic hasn't been as bad as feared, that was not the only component of the argument against IKEA.

And, yes, the promenade they built is the lovliest parking lot I've ever seen.

Posted by: Combustiblegirl2 at August 11, 2008 4:51 PM

Hey, this reminds me of Costco. Same arguments, now everyone shops there. Ditto for Lowes and HD. Any Brownstoners who are doing work on their homes, even modest work, avoid Lowes and HD? Just askin'...

Posted by: denton at August 11, 2008 5:27 PM

Thank you Combustiblegirl, I wasn't going to bother saying anything further because the responses were (seemingly purposeful) oversimplifications of the opposition.

And 11217, I never said my only problem with Ikea in RH was the potential for horrid traffic. If you plan to cherry pick quotes from past threads, fine, but at least put it in context.

Posted by: Nokilissa at August 11, 2008 6:44 PM

i had great fears about the traffic and the issues of cars vs. buses since that's the primary trans. mode. and they are unfounded.

so yay Ikea.
i am happy to admit I'm wrong.
I don't love Ikea like I'd want to marry it, but it's not the devil either. I think it's been a net plus for the neighborhood and putting up with a little extra traffic has been ok.

now let's all get afraid about what stupid big box someone's going to build next door, ok?

Posted by: bkkitten at August 11, 2008 6:49 PM

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