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August 4, 2008

Closing Bell: Fighting Unwanted Fliers

no_menus_08_08.jpg
Now the long arm of the law is backing up the handwritten "no menus" sign found in so many residential buildings. The Sun reports that the City Council has passed the Lawn Litter Law, banning businesses from leaving fliers in front of homes with signs like this: "Do not place unsolicited advertising materials on this property." Homeowners and landlords can file a complaint with the Department of Sanitation if paper-crazed advertisers don't comply.
New Law Allows Residents to Fight Unwanted Fliers [NY Sun]




Posted by lisa at 4:00 PM | Comments (29)
Categories: Closing Bell

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Comments

The above notice doesn't comply with the law. The kaw requires it to say no menus with minimum size type and sign size.

Posted by: smeyer418 at August 4, 2008 4:22 PM

If we're talking about brownstones here, the menus and fliers are left stuck in the gates and railings. There was a posting here many months ago that showed a sign on a gate. Who wants to put up an ugly sign on their brownstone gate??? It's like having a permanent chinese menu or Kohls flier attached!!!!

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 4:36 PM

My landlord, who lives upstairs, put a sign on the front gate and it's working on my block in PS. Problem is, I actually used to check some of the flyers. Now I have to steal them off someone else's stoop.

Posted by: altervoce at August 4, 2008 4:39 PM

I think this issue says more about lazy tenants who walk by stoops and foyers strewn with menus and don't care enough to pick them up.

Posted by: Lumpasaurus at August 4, 2008 4:45 PM

I have been able to discover a lot of good takeout from menus that I received so I don't mind them.

Posted by: Xander Crews at August 4, 2008 4:58 PM

There is no good Chinese take out in Bed Stuy. I found one run by Cantonese and got my hopes up. They should be ashamed of themselves it was so bad.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 5:02 PM

as a tenant, damn right i ain't picking up the menus strewn in front of my front door; that's one of the many things i [over]pay my landlord to do. and before anyone else jumps at it, no i'm NOT a bitter renter. I love love love my building, menus n all.

Posted by: bowl of dicks at August 4, 2008 5:40 PM

Take out flyers are not the problem here, at least they are placed under or near the door, its whom ever delivers the circulars in the plastic bags, they are a nuisance and are just strewn everywhere.

Posted by: Xander Crews at August 4, 2008 6:01 PM

It has been working for me in GH to some extent, 95% Less flyers/menus to clean up. So, it is well worth it, the paper mess was getting out of control.

Posted by: JayinBK at August 4, 2008 6:04 PM

I've never understood this beef.

Disclaimer: through the years, I've found several decent delivery places through menu fliers left in my lobby or under my door.

I always figured that if you don't like it, pick them up and plunk them into your recycling bin. Voila, problem gone. I also, to some degree, admire the pluck and drive of these small restaurant owners who pay for the menus and either single-handedly take them around, or hire someone to do it for them. It's a living, if not a particularly easy one.

We have MUCH more pressing things to grit our teeth and clench our fists about... like people who stand two wide on escalators, or don't stand to the right (especially the damned subway ones); or bike delivery people tearing down sidewalks or barreling down the street going the wrong way while ignoring all traffic laws, including the compelling ones; or people who snort up an enormous loogey and spit it on the sidewalk right in front of you (hope no one's just eaten); or cigarette smokers who don't pay the least bit of attention to the burning ember at the end of their stick as they walk along, thereby making us watch out for THEM in order to avoid being burned; or drivers who zoom past everyone in line for an exit and nose their way into the front, thereby making everyone else wait longer; even worse, the idiot drivers who let them do it....

Enough. Deep breath. Keeping. Calm.

Posted by: Nokilissa at August 4, 2008 8:00 PM

WOW Nokilissa I didn't know we shared such similar pet peeves!!! I secretly hope that a lot of those bike messengers actually get hit as they go through the intersections against the light, and; some rainy day one of them is going to receive my umbrella in their spokes as they cut across the crosswalk

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 4, 2008 8:27 PM

Ditto Nokilissa...I'm cool with the menus.

But, can I also add clipping fingernails (and assorted other très personnel hygiène moments) on the bus and/or subways and women who use their baby strollers as weapons (heaven forbid they SHARE the sidewalk) as two of my BIGGEST pet peeves?

Posted by: TownhouseLady at August 4, 2008 9:10 PM

The difference between all those (admittedly objectionable) actions that many of you find more serious than the flyers themselves is that they, unlike the flyers, do not require the destruction of CO2 consuming trees.

Posted by: johnife at August 4, 2008 9:38 PM

I agree, johnife. I find the menus and flyers a minor nuisance to clean up, and an incredible waste of paper.

When I come home and find two or three of the same supermarket circular hanging from the upper and lower entrances of the house -- we're in a single family residence, but the guys they hire to distribute these must assume were a multi-family dwelling -- only to chuck them immediately into the recycling, it makes me a little sick at the waste of time, energy and paper. Not so much my own time, but the effort of the guys who plaster the neighborhood, and to what effect? I never look at anything that gets shoved under my door or left on my stoop. it always gets dumped right away.

They should offer a way to opt of the paper flyers and get the information via email. I'd gladly delete a few emails every night if it would prevent the needless waste of paper.

Posted by: Vanderman at August 4, 2008 9:52 PM

In the last 2 weeks I've had two "No flyers, menus, etc.." posters torn off my front gate by people leaving the same banned flyers, menus, etc. This must have taken some effort since these were laminated in plastic. It would be great if they could finally enforce the law, but how can they, if they perpetrators themselves can get away with vandalizing the sign that they can later say wasn't there?

Posted by: brikenny at August 4, 2008 10:45 PM

As a brownstone owner in Carroll Gardens I must comment. It's easy to say, "no big deal, just pick them up...there are plenty of more important things in the world", but if a homeowner takes this approach, he or she might as well roll over, let the property fall to crap, roll up in the fetal position and ask these annoying paper delivery guys to pardon him/her for being in their way. What the F__K?! Sure we can ignore it as we can ignore lots of things in life, but there is nothing wrong with finding this intrusive and annoying as hell. These guys leave 4-5 things littering my stoop a few times every week. Kohl's is the worst! I've asked them nicely to stop. I've even offered to pay the guys to stop which works until some new guy picks up the route. I'm a nice guy! But this is my property. I own it. They are now breaking the law. It's great. I'm tired of waiting up late through the night and into the early morning just to spring upon these guys with boiling water. Hell, I'm just throwing hot water onto a public sidewalk. Their throwing slippery plastic onto private property. My elderly tenant slipped and broke her hip last her on one of these things. Three months later she died from complication related to the surgery. But, sure, we can admire these guys and the companies they work for if we want to. WHY? What is wrong with some of you people. If someone vents about this, you defend it. If someone complains about a loud neighbor you say it's just the city and to move. If someone complains about anything they have every right to complain about, some of you rail against them. Tonight I rail against you because you are either just uninformed, a weak, weak human being, or you're just trying to get a rise. If it's the latter - fine - you got me. If it's the former - well, then you'll never get any wiser. If it's that you're just weak which is my guess, then pleas grow some balls because that's what living in New York City is all about.

Posted by: BrooklynWilly at August 4, 2008 11:04 PM

Sorry to ramble but I forgot to mention a couple of my creative techniques for dealing with this problem. Last year I collected a truckload of Kohl's papers; truly a small truck load. I then dropped them all right at the front door of the building housing Kohl's advertising unit. It was fun.

I've waiting for the guy to come by and accidentally sprayed him with my house - about 17 times in the last year. This has proven much more effective than any sign.

I have a video system so I caught one guy trying to pull of my sign for no flyers. We ID'd him and he was charged with a misdemeanor which killed his illegal status. Oh well.

I've waited and the second the guy throws his paper in, I wing last weeks paper right at him as hard as I can. I'm very accurate.

I've dropped eggs on the guys from my roof; water balloons, latex paint, and all sorts of things. The beauty of it all is that I'm a lawyer who works 60 hours/week yet I still find time for this stuff. yes, you're all probably saying what I'm thinking. I'll miss these guys if they ever leave me won't I?

Posted by: BrooklynWilly at August 4, 2008 11:13 PM

BrooklynWilly is very silly. And guilty of assault.

If I can get a ticket for the junk circulars tossed on my property, then I should have recourse against those that put them there.

Posted by: uninvited_guest at August 4, 2008 11:21 PM

Invest this extraordinary energy elsewhere Willy, for the love of all that is holy. Please, invest it elsewhere.

I don't care what it is, anything you find compelling... Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Habitat for Humanity, the Plumpynut program through Doctor's Without Borders...

Then, if you find that you cannot, go and get some help.

Posted by: Nokilissa at August 5, 2008 12:09 AM

As a more level headed resident of Carroll Cardens (sorryBWilly), the menus/fliers are not simply a matter of one persons likes or dislikes. They are a community issue. Actually, if the fliers were simply placed through the mail slot or somehow placed where they wouldn't become rainsoaked or wind borne it would be preferable to how they are currently distributed. Unfortunately they are left in fences and gates, or simple tossed into the yard or left on the sidewalk where a gust of wind makes them everyones problem. Those of you who simply ignore them thinking this is your landlord's responsibility make the situation worse. Effectively, maybe two thirds of the fliers are retrieved from where they are dropped but the other third litter the street and sidewalk, clog the stormwater gratings and catchbasins or end up in the Gowanus. Pointing out the problem to the offending business should solve the problem but it doesn't. If these businesses are truly members of our community they should act more responsibly. If they can't grow their business without offending a sizeable portion of the community they deserve to be fined. Take a little pride.

Posted by: HDL at August 5, 2008 9:18 AM

Honestly, I've always felt the food delivery culture exemplifies a certain complacency and slothfulness that is present in many New Yorkers.

Truly, is it really such a big deal to cook a meal or walk a block to a restaurant? Why do so many people feel the urge to have food delivered?

If people didn't order enormous amounts of food for delivery - this problem simply wouldn't exist.

Posted by: Polemicist at August 5, 2008 9:28 AM

Touche HDL. As someone who has only lived in co-ops or condos (without doormen, mind you) and has only come across the stray bunch of menus, or the 2 or so a week shoved under my door, I wasn't aware of the magnitude of the problem out in some neighborhoods.

It does sound inordinately annoying and wasteful.

My guess is that the business owners themselves seldom do the distributing, hence, hire people to do it at very low pay, who then place/spew them willy nilly throughout the nabes. So there isn't much oversight or particular care to where they end up.

It remind me of the "porn playing cards" scattered about the streets of Chelsea, near the clubs, usually on weekend nights, which are then face up the next morning, all over the sidewalks and gutters, and screaming "hello" to my children passing by at eye level.

"Mommy, why are those ladies' boobs out?"
"...Uh, well honey, she forgot to put her bra on."
"ohhhhh. (thinking) Well that was silly!"

Okay. The menus can get added to the list.

Posted by: Nokilissa at August 5, 2008 9:54 AM

yeah, the flyers can be annoying but here's one better: last week, on two different days, I received, in the MAIL, an enveloped menu flyer from Red Hot II!!! No kidding. They've now taken theri marketing money and invested in snail mail to get the menu out there! Still ended up in the garbage but I thought, "wow, these folks will stop at nothing!"

Posted by: just me at August 5, 2008 10:13 AM

I like the menus because sometimes you actually find some good places to order from.
I recycle all of the unwanted ones but, when I get the same menu from the same restaurant week after week I don't order from them just on principle.
That is annoying.

Posted by: TownhouseLady at August 5, 2008 10:53 AM

To the person who said put them in the mail slot, that is not legal as per the post office. They lose out on bulk mailings. Technically they can fine you. So if you were really clever, and this would apply to the attorney, put them in the mail box and call the post office authorities and let them get fined. Now of course I wouldn't recommend that, but just imagining the scenario. One thing not mentioned -- if it didn't work they wouldn't keep doing it, so it must have some value to some people. As for the tenant who doesn't believe in sharing the responsibility of cleaning up after them, I hope I never rent to you. It's that attitude that keeps the city filthy.

Posted by: Iknow at August 5, 2008 11:14 AM

In my neighbor we don't have many restaurants to walk to where you can just sit and eat. I'm sure we will down the road but for right now the places that deliver are a boon. Those menus don't really bother me. the plastic bagged circulars all over the yard and steps are a pain but it's only a second to pick them up and toss them. for little businesses in my neighborhood, flyers can be a lifeline.

I hadn't realized though how dangerous they could be on the steps. Sorry about your tenant, Brooklynwilly. Still, one more law to browbeat each other with. Anyone remember the guy who got a ticket for sitting on a milk crate?

Posted by: bxgrl at August 5, 2008 12:36 PM

You can stand on a soapbox, but I guess you can't sit on a milk crate.

Posted by: Iknow at August 5, 2008 1:22 PM

Hey, "Iknow", I think you misread (mine anyway): it's not that they put it in the mail slots it's that they actually put the flyer in an envelope and put a stamp on it and mail it to you.
as far as the attorney is concerned: these folks who are delivering them are just the ponies pulling the cart. Tell them you don't want them, they'll leave. they might be relentless in their pursuit but they'll leave and usually quietly. no need to resort to such drastic measures (although I do like the idea of dropping the truck load of kohl's flyers at the doorstep of the advertising agency..i'm just sayin'...)

Posted by: just me at August 5, 2008 3:31 PM

Good feed back and I do appreciate the views others have posted here. To IKnow - i like the idea and may try it...very clever. To Nokilissa - I do try to invest my energy elsewhere! I really do work 60+ hours a week at a law firm, I try cases to verdict every month, I am a father, I do a lot of pro bono work for battered women and even a little for a cat shelter believe it or not. With so little time left in my days, you can see how important this issue is to me if I still manage to make it such a battle.

I suppose there is no good answer here and I understand these guys are just the earning a buck, but the line must be drawn somewhere. Going to the top has little to no effect, so I'm starting at the bottom and hoping enough abuse will lead to complacency and reluctance to deliver...then perhaps this will rise up through the ranks and eventually get to the top. Perhaps this is just a dream, but it's the best i've got right now. Still, i give credit to the local politicians willing to spend the time and energy to at least attempt to address this issue. Bravo.

Posted by: BrooklynWilly at August 6, 2008 9:08 PM

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