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July 18, 2008
Who's Gonna Buy This Stuff Now?
We can see how a few naive souls might have been induced to buy this type of thing back when the market was frothing but, seriously, who's going to step up at this point in the market? Are these the squats and crack houses of the future?
$645000 DON'T MISS OUT!!! Crown Heights [Craigslist]
$799000 New Construction 3 Family! Bed Stuy [Craigslist]
$699000 New 3 family 3/3/2! Bushwick [Craigslist]
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Comments
They look just like upscale crack houses.
Posted by: troll at July 18, 2008 11:15 AM
If it makes sense economically, why not? At least the house comes with many warranties and unlike a brownstone, you should not have any unexpected, uncovered costs.
Just put some lipstick on that pig!
Posted by: bmfesq at July 18, 2008 11:19 AM
Bummer. They were working last night!
Posted by: brownstoner at July 18, 2008 11:22 AM
bmfesq
These things need an inspector if someon'e going to buy....and I wouldn't hold my breath on getting any repairs after the sale from people who build this crap.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 18, 2008 11:31 AM
THE ONE ON MONTGOMRY ST. LOOKS "GOOD" IN PHOTO BUT IT IS A REAL PEACE OF S*&^%.
Posted by: CROWNHEIGHTSER at July 18, 2008 11:31 AM
this is what happens when there is no landmarks and oversight!
as big a headache as it is... it protects some neighborhoods from this problem.
the economic situation will leave lots of this stuff out there and those people who bought the brownstone down the street from these things in neighborhoods with very few services are going to be stranded pretty soon.
I am now hearing a twelve year recovery cycle... a lot can happen in twelve years!
Posted by: brklynmarks at July 18, 2008 11:32 AM
if the links are expired, there are dozens of news ones posted today. these houses show up all over CL.
The surprising thing is that some of the new buildings are listed with Corcoran or other agents with a much higher price tag.
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1216312
Posted by: laurie at July 18, 2008 11:33 AM
..."Welcome to Fedders"
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at July 18, 2008 11:36 AM
I understand the market has tanked, but as a homeowner in Bushwick I am truly offended by your term upscale "crack houses". Sorry the homes you picked out are in low to moderate income neighborhoods: Crown Heights, Bed-Stuy and the Wick but contrary to what you think we don't have people squatting and smoking crack in homes that are being constructed. I know these neighborhoods are shocking for your white laced eyes, but please note, we can't all afford to live in your white over priced yuppie neighborhoods: Carroll Gardens, Boerum Hill, Park Slope, etc...You should be more responsible with your words.
Posted by: Nanook at July 18, 2008 11:38 AM
It is really unfortunate that we have to suffer thru such crappy construction in Brooklyn. I mean who will want to buy this junk?? Very sad but yes these are the future squat houses. Triste mais vrais!
Posted by: pierre de taille at July 18, 2008 11:39 AM
Laurie - why is that suprising? Corcoran are infamous for inflating asking prices. Many people think the rule of thumb with Corcoran is to knock off 20% straight away instead of the usual 10%.
Posted by: dittoburg at July 18, 2008 11:40 AM
Nanook...you need to lighten up yourself a bit. Try to figure out when a comment is serious and when it's just a snarky joke.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 18, 2008 11:42 AM
If it turns to future "crack house" most likely the crack heads will break into your "nice" brownstone for items that can turn into crack.
you Mouseketeers are mean.
Posted by: Cant Truss It at July 18, 2008 11:43 AM
It's offensive - plain and simple and I'm voicing it. I'm over it now...
Posted by: Nanook at July 18, 2008 11:45 AM
Recently purchased brownstones are crackhouses too.
Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at July 18, 2008 11:52 AM
Crack houses only move into neighborhoods that allow them.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 18, 2008 11:53 AM
no snitchin
Posted by: dittoburg at July 18, 2008 11:54 AM
I'll be the contrarian . . .twice. In my best Linda Wotsername Coffee Tawk voice, discuss among yourselves -
One, all brokers try to underprice. They make money on sales volume. Adding 20% to a price actually reduces their profit 'cause it takes them longer to sell the thing. For a broker the fastest sale is the best sale.
Two, at the right price, these crapshacks could work. They're designed to maximize internal space. Not sure of rents in the area, but for the 3-fam, what part of the nut would two rents cover? Of course, a really, really thorough inspection would be a requisite.
Posted by: Johnny at July 18, 2008 11:56 AM
"all brokers try to underprice".
You really think Corcoran underprices?
Posted by: dittoburg at July 18, 2008 11:58 AM
Nanook, I can appreciate your sensitivity, but all nabes take their lumps here, including Brooklyn Heights with recent multiple threads on the HoD (multiple threads). I also thought the jokes about the white collar dads having one stop shopping with the new Parole Facility next to St. Ann's were pretty funny too.
Posted by: Biff Champion at July 18, 2008 12:03 PM
"his is what happens when there is no landmarks and oversight!
as big a headache as it is... it protects some neighborhoods from this problem."
No Asshat, it's morons wasting capital on this crap! When the price of the garbage was going up no one cared. Now the market is tanking now we have a problem.
"I know these neighborhoods are shocking for your white laced eyes, but please note, we can't all afford to live in your white over priced yuppie neighborhoods: Carroll Gardens, Boerum Hill, Park Slope, etc...You should be more responsible with your words."
Nanook, this the place for covert race/class warfare. Just get used to it and be glad some of these Asshats like in the Ghetto too. They are just paying o'lot more!
"Nanook...you need to lighten up yourself a bit. Try to figure out when a comment is serious and when it's just a snarky joke."
Look whose talking! Mr. Kotex himself. How in the hell you going to tell some to lighten up when their neighborhood is being trashed by out of town Asshats?!
"Crack houses only move into neighborhoods that allow them."
Ignorance know no bounds. To all the newly planted. There has been no "Crack Houses" for years. All operation are conducted in the street. Crack houses are a relic of the 80's!!
For your viewing pleasure, This is what happen when you Government and Financial Markets is Hijacked!! This is going to happen to America so better get prepared!
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41130#post41130
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at July 18, 2008 12:08 PM
Johnny, I almost always agree with you but saying all brokers try to underprice sounds very far-fetched. Although there's no question there are times, with the seller's consent, they will underprice to create interest and hopefully a bidding war (at least in the good old days of 2001-2007).
(Oh, and it's Linda Richman)
Posted by: Biff Champion at July 18, 2008 12:08 PM
Thanks Bill, but please know I am not a sensitive weirdo who is easily offended. I read the post and thought if these homes were in nicer neighborhoods, the term future crack houses would never even come up. Yeah, they are very ugly and then one in Bushwick is (unfortunately) on my street. I walk by and frown when I see the tacky construction, but I'd never associated crack with it. Yes, it was a joke, but I didn't laugh.
Posted by: Nanook at July 18, 2008 12:10 PM
Nanook, we happen to live in a former crack house, and it's not in any of the "over priced" neighborhoods you mentioned. This post is supposed to express concern for the neighborhoods that got the brunt of this cheap, ugly construction during the building boom and now are going to have to live with it. Who's going to pay $600,000 or $700,000 for one of these when there are plenty of beautiful housing stock in neighborhoods like Crown Heights, Bed Stuy and Bushwick? And if no one buys them, then, yes, they are at risk of becoming squats or crackhouses. No neighborhood deserves that.
Posted by: brownstoner at July 18, 2008 12:14 PM
They're all multiple family, so at a price that makes sense given the rental income, they'll sell. Believe it or not, there is a market for new construction with parking, with rental income. Probably not at these prices, though.
Posted by: Flatbushwhacker at July 18, 2008 12:24 PM
fake what alert.
b-stoner - there are many other optional uses between sale and squatted.
Posted by: BrooklynLove at July 18, 2008 12:25 PM
Corcoran Marketing Alert!!
Price Chop at the Luxurious *KraKondos*
Extra external ConEd meter and Fedders cover for the first three buyers!!
Don't Delay!!
Posted by: Mr Joist at July 18, 2008 12:28 PM
Brokers underpricing homes is extremely rare...But if they do trust me it's for a reason. Some just want to spark a bidding war.
Posted by: A ClintonHillLady at July 18, 2008 12:36 PM
Is it too late to torch them for the insurance money?
Posted by: Xander Crews at July 18, 2008 12:38 PM
LOL...It's never to late for a good old fashion scam! lol
Posted by: A ClintonHillLady at July 18, 2008 12:40 PM
Interesting choice of words Brownstoner.
Posted by: DizzyNYC at July 18, 2008 12:48 PM
Linda Richman, right!!!!! Thanks,
Here's my point - from a purely economic perspective, would you rather work 20 hours for, say, a $5,000 commission or 40 hours for a $5,500 commission? When that additional 20 hours could have netted you an additional full commission, versus the incremental commission of the higher price/slower sale model.
Here's a test. There's an old adage that brokers' own homes stay on the market longer than average. If that's true, and I don't know if it is, then I'm right. The broker is trying to maximize sale dollars by pricing higher/selling longer. If it's not true, and brokers own homes sell in same time frame on average then they're pricing their own homes at "fair market" same as everyone else's and I'm w-w-w-w-w-w-w . . . not as right as I think ;-)
Posted by: Johnny at July 18, 2008 12:49 PM
Nope, these beauties won't be awarded Pritzkers anytime soon. However, someone will buy them and rent them to small families.
As for the "crack house" comment sounds like something I'd see on Curbed. I expect more from Brownstoner, but maybe I'm just kidding myself....
Posted by: qis4quincy at July 18, 2008 12:52 PM
Johnny, I see your point and agree with your law of diminishing marginal returns example. But it seems many brokers (Corcoran most notoriously) will still initially throw out a number that is way above what one expects is reasonable under the current market conditions to see if they get any quick bites and then be fairly quick to drop it to something more realistic. This is not done over a long period of time, so they don't use that much time and effort. I would bet the majority of price changes on Streeteasy, even pre-fall 2007 were downward adjustments. Isn't that clear evidence they were overpriced?
Posted by: Biff Champion at July 18, 2008 1:00 PM
Nanook - All I am saying is that these homes are ugly no matter where they are. They would still look like upscale crack houses if they were located in park slope!
The fact of the matter is that the developer has shown no imagination or vision when building these homes. They are very blend and there is nothing appealing about them.
Posted by: troll at July 18, 2008 1:04 PM
"Crack houses only move into neighborhoods that allow them."
Um, okay Charles Bronson...
Posted by: Nanook at July 18, 2008 1:14 PM
Its very hard to develop with imagination on a 18 x 80 lot. If the builder walks away with 500K in his pocket after expenses he should be grateful.
Posted by: Xander Crews at July 18, 2008 1:16 PM
Question: Would the rents on these places be profitable at these prices?
Posted by: SnarkSlope at July 18, 2008 1:17 PM
I'm guessing borker's overprice in order to get the listing.
Posted by: Boerum Hill at July 18, 2008 1:30 PM
If someone does buy any of these properties, they will turn them into an SRO all it takes is some drywall. You would be amazed how they can pack them in at 100 bucks a week.
Posted by: Xander Crews at July 18, 2008 1:36 PM
Who is going to buy them? - The same people that would have bought them when the market was frothing - families looking for a nice place to live and rental income to help support it ---- just now they will probably be able to pay a more affordable price. Isnt that what we want - affordable housing?
I have to wonder when Brownstoner is going to get tired of posting these IMHO dumb posts
- 1st of all no matter what they look like on the outside the most significant thing to someone looking to buy a home is what they are like on the INSIDE - since thats where you do most of your living. And while these may be bland and 'cookie-cutter' on the inside - the reality is while a well appointed Brownstone may be gorgeous to look at, many are poorly laid out for modern families.
-2nd no matter how crappy constructed these are, the upkeep will be significantly less than a 100+yr old Brownstone that you'd be able to buy at anywhere near these prices. As a Brownstone owner I can't figure out why Stoner constantly posts as though Brownstones are low maintenance housing - they are not!
-Finally most of the crackhouses of the past were Brownstones not new construction - ironically because moderate income people cant afford the upkeep on the money pit that is a less than pristine money pit - and I doubt that is going to change now.
Posted by: fsrg at July 18, 2008 1:46 PM
Sorry - meant to say "less than pristine Brownstone" in the last point
Posted by: fsrg at July 18, 2008 1:53 PM
I'll buy that for a dollar.
Posted by: Xander Crews at July 18, 2008 2:20 PM
"Ignorance know no bounds."
- what
Thank you for the self-assessment. No one else would have ever guessed it.
"There has been no "Crack Houses" for years. All operation are conducted in the street. Crack houses are a relic of the 80's!!"
- what
You are dating yourself, what, but weren't you doing crack in the 90's?
And where are your posts on all things mutant? You are slowing down in your old age.
Posted by: 11233 at July 18, 2008 2:21 PM
^^^^ Sums it all up. Lets move on to another post and rip on Brownstoner.
Posted by: DizzyNYC at July 18, 2008 2:23 PM
Brokers's houses, on average, stay on the market longer. See Freakonomics.
I've never sold a house but I would guess that brokers would lie to clients about how much they can fetch for a house, then encourage their clients to take the first offer so they can get their commission.
Posted by: FatLenny at July 18, 2008 2:24 PM
"And where are your posts on all things mutant? You are slowing down in your old age."
Nope Homeboy! I got a cold one and siting on the mountain. Watching everyone and everything. The piper has broken the perimeter and is headed strait for the Asshats!
I say in about 90 days all hell is going to break lose. The crash will be very very bad. Then you will here from me in a big way. When I post something like this: I love the smell... There will be no refuting any of my arguments!
The What (Tick.. Tick.. Tick..)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at July 18, 2008 2:52 PM
Love him or hate him, this place would be a lot more boring without The What.
Posted by: Dyker Blights at July 18, 2008 3:03 PM
Biff,
Fair. But your Corcoran model still doesn't refute my lowball for a fast sale hypothesis. They're just adding a "price high for a few days and see what happens" twist. And prices will always be adjusted down more frequently than up 'cause you never need to adjust a price up, just take a bid over ask.
To me, a bidding war is just another way of saying broker underpriced. AND . . . even a downward adjustment, could just be an error on the part of the broker on what a low price is. Doesn't have to imply intentional overprice.
If freekonomics says broker houses stay on the market longer, you're gonna have to concede buddy . . . .
Posted by: Johnny at July 18, 2008 3:06 PM
All freak, no nomics.
Posted by: SnarkSlope at July 18, 2008 3:18 PM
Nanook, you seem to be accepting the notion that low income neighborhoods like yours can only afford uninspired, poorly/cheaply built homes. The fact is, it doesn't have to be like that. It is possible to build an attractive, functional building using lower cost materials and techniques. This isn't being done for lots of reasons, but mostly because of the stupidity and greed of the developers who put up the monstrosities Brownstoner disapproves of.
Posted by: pfa at July 18, 2008 3:26 PM
i agree with fsrg about brownstone living. it's definetly not cheap. i have been inside many a brownstones and many are not pretty on the inside and not laid out 'for modern living'. these homes may have better layouts and someone out there that can afford them will buy them. there are people that do not want a brownstone. i have a friend that sold her brownstone and was specifically looking for this type of 'new construction' in brooklyn. of course we were all shocked but she was from the west coast and really could not stand her old brownstone and frankly got sick of the contruction to 'modernize it'.
i think the beautiful interiors that we see here are definetly the minorities in brownstone living not the majority. at least not yet.
at the right price everything eventually sells....
Posted by: bkny at July 18, 2008 3:26 PM
That 3rd floor balcony in the second picture is perfect for sniping people, That's probably the only redeeming value to it.
Posted by: Xander Crews at July 18, 2008 3:30 PM
Re Corcoran pricing -- what you need to keep in mind is that Brooklyn is highly atypical in terms of residential real estate. In particular: 1)there's no MLS; 2) very limited buyer's broker representation; and 3) largely exclusive listings. What Freakonomics demonstrates is that brokers get a higher price for their own homes than they do for their clients -- so normally, they do indeed want to push a sale forward at a slight underprice, because their 4-6% commission on the delta isn't usually a huge sum, particularly compared to the overall commission.
However --- because brokers in Brooklyn only represent the sell side, the criticality of getting the listing is much higher than in other parts of the country. As a broker, you have no opportunity to make money until you get the listing. Unlike other parts of the country, you can't try to work the buyer side. So now your incentive is to get the listing at any cost. One easy way to do this is to promise the seller that you'll get him a higher price than the other brokers around. This dramatically skews the self-serving incentives that Freakonomics describes. Put another way, Brooklyn brokers are every bit as self-serving as their national counterparts -- but the peculiar local rules make them self-serving in a different way.
Posted by: G Samsa at July 18, 2008 3:44 PM
And what happens, what, after 90 days if you are mistaken? Do you go away?
Posted by: 11233 at July 18, 2008 3:57 PM
Brooklyn Doesn't have an MLS?
https://www.bnymls.com/brk/welcome.html
Posted by: Xander Crews at July 18, 2008 4:09 PM
Johnny, I don't dispute it's possible some brokers underprice (although I still think the majority overprice - and I think G Samsa makes a strong argument to that end). All I'm saying is it isn't all or none and there are certainly different theories/strategies practiced by different brokers and I don't think one can generalize to the point of assuming every one of them always does the same thing.
Posted by: Biff Champion at July 18, 2008 4:11 PM
OK, Xander - make that, use of the MLS in Brooklyn, and particularly in brownstone Brooklyn is much more limited than in other areas of the country. You'll notice that Corcoran, Brown Harris, etc. don't put their listings up on the MLS.
Posted by: G Samsa at July 18, 2008 4:22 PM
OK, Xander - make that, use of the MLS in Brooklyn, and particularly in brownstone Brooklyn is much more limited than in other areas of the country. You'll notice that Corcoran, Brown Harris, etc. don't put their listings up on the MLS."
But the sales are posted on the MLS. Corcoran, Brown Harris, etc. are not members of the MLS or Realtor.
"And what happens, what, after 90 days if you are mistaken? Do you go away?"
Nope Asshat, there are nasty head and shoulder patters forming on most of the charts. Plus when China is finished with the Olympics they are going to dump large tranches of American debt on the markets! This will spike interest rates and cause havoc on our system. Remember what happen last August, that subprime thing? Well the Asshats wont be able to help you..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Hey 11233 you are in rough hood! If you are getting you as kick yell out "I Know the What" and "Please stop", LMMFAO!
Posted by: what at July 18, 2008 8:50 PM
Hey, what, some of the historic district of Stuyvesant Heights is in 11233. Not as rough as you would like to think. You need to get out of your cave more often. Or maybe you are intimidated by a bunch of 8 year-olds who like to play jumprope on the sidewalk.
You are so not ghetto, sweetie, since you know nothing about the neighborhoods you claim are part of your very limited world view.
Here are two questions for you, since you don't seem to have a job to keep you busy: If you were a real estate agent in this decade, weren't you part of the very bubble that you are now complaining about? And how many of these pieces of crap did you try to sell to some hard-working person from the "ghetto"?
I thought the war would be over the day Obama was in office. Now you are changing your tune. You are grasping at straws.
Posted by: 11233 at July 18, 2008 10:12 PM
I was in a car accident! Just before impact I realized we was going to hit the car in front of us. I just sat back and rolled with the impact.
11233 I'm not "changing" my tune. I realized great energy has been expanded and I need some time to recoup my chi.
"You are so not ghetto, sweetie, since you know nothing about the neighborhoods you claim are part of your very limited world view."
This a very funny concept. The Asshats are trying to erase history, just like the history of the world. Where the Africans ruled known civilization, since the dawn of man. Now you have Asshats telling people you have no identity to this or other neighborhoods. This is the foundation of White Supremacy.
This one thing that will turn things around. The greatest asset crash in history! Where the same Bankers who give you everything will take it away. This will in turn this nation to be shifted politically to the right, to fulfill the agenda of your Masters. America was founded on this principle of Racism. You just can't help yourself.
"I thought the war would be over the day Obama was in office. Now you are changing your tune. You are grasping at straws."
The war will be over when Real New Yorkers get their city back.. I Love NY!!!!!!!!! I Love Brooklyn!!!!!!
The What (Born in the 11216)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at July 19, 2008 12:44 AM
"Upscale crackhouses" "Are these the squats and crack houses of the future?"
This kind of thinking is what creates animosity between the residents that have been here and the newcomers to the area. This superiority complex will backfire on you if you're not careful. Respect the community at large and you may find it welcomes you with open arms. Otherwise, there could be problems.
Posted by: steelecal at July 19, 2008 12:15 PM
Yes, I do believe nice construction can exist in low to moderate income neighborhoods. The post made me angry because the term "future crack house" was used to describe what may occur if these homes did not sell. Do you REALLY think if this construction was in Park Slope and wasn't selling that Brownstoner would ever think to call it a future crack house?
I don't think so...
Posted by: Nanook at July 19, 2008 8:55 PM
Here are two questions for you, since you don't seem to have a job to keep you busy: If you were a real estate agent in this decade, weren't you part of the very bubble that you are now complaining about? And how many of these pieces of crap did you try to sell to some hard-working person from the "ghetto"?
What, answer teh questions posed to you. Are you too afraid to tell the truth?
The only racist on this site is you. It is tired, like your inane rants.
Posted by: 11233 at July 21, 2008 2:06 PM
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