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July 18, 2008

Open House Picks

houseSouth Slope
237 14th Street
Warren Lewis: Sunday 12-2
Townsley & Gay: Sunday 2:30-4:30
$1,995,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseFort Greene
396 Vanderbilt Avenue
Aguayo & Huebener Archive!
Sunday 2:30-4:30
$1,850,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseDitmas Park
325 East 17th Street
Brooklyn Properties Archive!
Sunday 12-1:30
$1,325,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseBedford Stuyvesant
191 Halsey Street
Corcoran
Sunday 2-3:30
$950,000
GMAP P*Shark




Posted by Brownstoner at 1:09 PM | Comments (40)
Categories: Open Houses

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Comments

I'm really liking that South Slope frame house - wide plank pine, renovation that suits the style of the house, plus the extra carriage house space. A couple of months back, Warren Lewis had a very similarly restored house on 13th between 5th and 6th Avenues (minus the carriage house, less fitted kitchen and not nearly as wide), same asking price, and that was in contract within a week of its only open house.

As a side note, if I were in the market I'd certainly be at WL's open houses instead of Townsley and Gay's. Compare the picture quality on the two sites, plus the really pathetic T&G floorplan. Geesh.

Posted by: zeebee_in_bklyn at July 18, 2008 1:44 PM

these all leave me flacid

Posted by: lowintheheights at July 18, 2008 1:46 PM

Actually the 13th St. house was priced about $1.89 and sold for about $1.76, as I recall. It is a narrower house, tho still a very nice size, but no carriage house. Same people restored both houses, I'm sure. I think this 14th St. house is below 5th Ave, which makes it less desirable. If the block is nice, however, I bet it goes for $1.8 or possibly even $1.85......

Posted by: ssloper at July 18, 2008 2:05 PM

I think the Bed-Stuy house is overpriced by about $150K - $200K.

Posted by: 11233 at July 18, 2008 2:08 PM

Get the clippers out. Haircuts needed. This won't be the last time we see these offerings.

Posted by: FatLenny at July 18, 2008 2:36 PM

Probably right 11233. And what's with the 3 photos of the fireplaces????

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 18, 2008 2:39 PM

You're right about the price, Ssloper - I stand corrected.

Posted by: zeebee_in_bklyn at July 18, 2008 2:55 PM

Whaz up with da bad bed-stuy renovation...isshhhh

Posted by: Dora Chica at July 18, 2008 3:00 PM

14th Street may be 25' wide, but it is also only 30' deep.

Price seems a bit steep for Slippery Slope.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at July 18, 2008 3:01 PM

Don't understand why South Slope didn't put kitchen on parlor level, and leave option for rental on garden level - would have made this much more attractive to many buyers. Also, T&G had another listing on that block that had several price chops before selling, and IMO it was actually a better house in many ways (brick front, great layout, nice rental). That block is quite unattractive, so I'm not sure what buyer wants to pay close to 2 mil for a single family home on it. I'd be surprised if it went for more than 1.8 and even that is a great price for the sellers.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 18, 2008 3:05 PM

For Ditmas, why only one photo?

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 18, 2008 3:08 PM

Dave: I think they took pictures before the reno was done, so all they have is that fireplace. Don't know what kind of rehab they are doing on the place, but for that price they need soem pretty fancy upgrades. I wouldn't expect that much from Corcoran.

Posted by: 11233 at July 18, 2008 3:46 PM

Wow, the no guest policy is really curtailing discussion. Used to be open house picks had many dozens, if not hundreds of comments by this time of day. Or maybe it's the summer doldrums?

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 18, 2008 5:21 PM

East 17th is actually a pretty block. Unfortunately it is in Beverley Square East, which aside from South Midwood, is the least desirable of all the Victorian Flatbush neighborhoods. It's a stone's throw from Flatbush Avenue, many of the homes have had unfortunate renovations (including the current listing, although it's one of few that's suffered on that particular block). It also has one of the least active community associations. Particularly of note, the residents do not have a private security outfit operating in the neighborhood, which most others do. I live here and am not 100 percent sure how necessary the private security is, even though I subscribe, but I wouldn't want to live in a sub-section that didn't have that option. It would be a deal breaker for me, personally.

People who can throw 1.4 at a house would rather buy in DPW or BSW if they can't quite afford DP or PPS. Overpriced for BSE. Price is sure to free fall several hundred thousand.

Posted by: Architerrorist at July 18, 2008 5:24 PM

I agree about the strange choice to put the kitchen on the garden level at 14th street. So now they have identical twin sitting areas on the parlor level, and a dark, low-ceilinged kitchen...hm.

Posted by: chambley at July 18, 2008 5:26 PM

And yeah, if you go on google, you can see the block is pretty nasty looking. Too bad! This is close to being amazing, but it's not.

Posted by: chambley at July 18, 2008 5:28 PM

all these need some major price reductions especially that Fort Green place. S Slope house is pretty on inside but $2m is still too much for such a frame house.

Posted by: pierre de taille at July 18, 2008 5:28 PM

8 reasons why 14th st is over valued

1. The block is ugly
2. $1,995,000
3. The second floor "sitting room" is a waste of space
4. $1,995,000
5. Its a 1 family in a 2 family body
6. $1,995,000
7 Its two doors from a Foot Locker
8. Its July 18 2008 and you're listing it for $1,995,000

Posted by: CobbleHilller at July 18, 2008 7:14 PM

Brownstoner, can you revive the 6 months later feature for HOTD and open house picks? 14th St is exactly the kind of house that would be interesting to follow. There was that house across the street that started at 1.895 and wound up at 1.595, pre-Bear Sterns, so it really will be telling to see what this sells for.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 18, 2008 8:55 PM

The 14th street house is sweet, but Charrette renovates all the houses with basement kitchens, and I also wonder why that is. (And they also stage them all with the same furniture and rugs.) Maybe their trying to stay in line with the way the house was originally put together? These typically didnt have kitchen plumbing on the 'double parlor'. Check out the rental ads for this place on the Charrette site to see the stages of renovation- they essentially tore a parlor side kitchen out to get it into selling shape.

One question- what condition is that carriage house in? If it's renovated- that's your 2nd family rental, and that's an even better setup for a 2 family situation.


Posted by: Park Place at July 18, 2008 11:09 PM

Say what you want about the 14th Street house but having an outbuilding like a carriage house is a huge selling point and incredible luxury for many (Studio space for an artist or musician, office space for a work at homer, guest suite for someone with frequent out of town guests)

Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at July 19, 2008 10:15 AM

The 14th street house was bought in 2004 for $320,000, according to PropertyShark. How much went into the renovation to allow them to offer it at more than a 6 fold increase in price?? Plus, what is the right rate of inflation of park slope houses for the past 4 years?

Posted by: dandel at July 19, 2008 10:34 AM

Brooklyn Properties describes the East 17th house as "mint condition." I can only assume they're referring to the interior, which isn't pictured. The exterior is hardly what I would describe as mint. Siding, brick porch enclosure, etc... A perfect example of "remuddling," and exactly what landmarking is trying to prevent!

Posted by: Architerrorist at July 19, 2008 7:54 PM

Re: 14th Street outbuilding and Mrs. Limestone's point about the outbuilding, an important flip side is that the outbuilding eats into your garden space, and is a whole other building to maintain. Truly, I (and imagine others) would have preferred that they had put kitchen on parlor level and then I would have preserved garden level as my "guest suite" or work area, what have you. I still think that this property is a very tough sell at that price given the location - who, really, is that buyer for it? What artist/dancer type (who presumably would want to use that studio) has 2 mil to drop on a crummy block with iffy school? And what person who can easily pay that money wants to live on that crummy block? And given the price is was purchased at relatively recently, 1.7 would be a great price for those sellers!

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 19, 2008 9:19 PM

The Bed-Stuy house is in a very nice part of the nabe, but it's right across the street from a middle school, and it's a 2-way bus street.

Posted by: rf at July 19, 2008 9:42 PM

Given that 13th St. house renovated by the same people went for about $1.76, I'm predicting the lowest 14th St. house would go for is $1.75 but probably will get more like $1.8. ALthough the block may be worse, it is BIGGER and someone will love that carriage house! No one will pay $2 mil but they're not expecting that--they obviously expect somewhere in the $1.8 range given what they got on 13th St. (all cash, as I heard it). Also, the sale price in 2004 is irrelevant--Charrette Properties does beautiful work, greatly increasing the value of old houses!

Posted by: ssloper at July 19, 2008 10:32 PM

Actually, I've heard Charrette looks nice on surface, but can be shoddy beneath - some comments from this list. Can anyone elucidate? Is that true? (OK, I know finding truth on an anonymous blog is hard, but I am curious for more information from people who have bought/rented in Charrette properties...) As for 13th St, the market has noticeably been worsening in the last few months, more price cuts, tougher credit, etc. Not saying pricing are tanking, but they are eroding, esp in non-prime areas, and this block certainly qualifies. So, I don't think a close under 1.8 is out of the question - wouldn't be surprised is this closed closer to 1.7 but who knows, this market is weird as some properties sit and sit and get lots of price cuts and others have been doing OK (though the news does seem to be getting worse every day and historically NYC tends to lag rest of country with real estate) - though it does seem the clear consensus that no way will they get near ask...

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 19, 2008 10:51 PM

Interesting comments about Charrette Properties. I'll defend the choice of kitchen on the garden floor because it gives you a full formal living room/library on the parlor. I've never liked the less formal and more modern combined living/dining/kitchen space, but then I'm a traditionalist.

Only problem with the carriage house as a guest suite or even an office is that the floorplan is showing no plumbing out there, not even a sink. Wonder how much it costs to run plumbing - this entails digging up the yard to tap into the main house's water and sewer lines, correct?

Posted by: zeebee_in_bklyn at July 20, 2008 8:09 AM

I'm going to defend the kitchen on the garden level too. If you've ever been to a dinner party in a house with this arrangement, the open layout kitchen/dining room/family room on the garden level is very social and guest friendly. And family friendly too when people have children. The low ceilings are cozy. Garden levels don't bother me at all in that regard. But I also love having at least one separate formal parlor like this house has upstairs, that doesn't have the sight and smell of kitchens sticking into them. I'm not merely defending my own layout as many do here: We don't have a garden level kitchen. I just truly think this is an ideal layout. If we ever bought a bigger house with one more floor it's what I'd like.

As for that price in South Slope, many of us question it because of the unattractive blocks on which there will likely be lots of condos built eventually. But people still pay big money for houses there. This will sell.

Posted by: traditionalmod at July 20, 2008 10:41 AM

The price on the 14th Street house is absolutely freakin insane. Anyone who pays that needs a psych evaluation and represents all the things that are wrong with brooklyn now. If a buyer has that much extra money to dump, i'm sure they could find something so much better in that price range. just ridiculous.

Posted by: puppycup at July 20, 2008 1:53 PM

I have seen 2 Charrette houses and talked to their owners and, overall, from what I've seen, I think they do a great (NOT shoddy) job. Good people with good taste, and a real investment in the nabe.

Posted by: ssloper at July 20, 2008 5:44 PM

Well, I went to 14th St open house, and if anything, it reinforced my doubts about quality of renovation. The frig already had some rusty patches on the stainless steel and the kitchen overall felt like the materials were not that great, other than the fancy brand appliances (and the frig too, I might add, was very shallow - my mom has a fancy subzero frig and always much preferred our much roomier and more practical Whirlpool model...) Yes, the carriage house has not an ounce of plumbing - it's just 4 walls and cement floors and what looks like a hastily constructed stairwell to a mezzanine. Truly, I will be stunned if this gets above 1.7.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 20, 2008 9:26 PM

If what you say is true about the 14th St. house, too bad. I think the garden floor kitchen layout is cool, in that if you're having a party guests can go right out to the garden. I dont think it would be easy to run plumbing out to the outbuilding, at least in NYC. The permitting process alone gives me the shakes. To get that ask, in that location, everything better be pristine.

The other houses are crap, just crap. There are so many red flags on that bed-stuy house, and the dodgy front door on the Ft. Greene place says "stay away."

This time of summer, though, is probably not the best time to try to sell a home.

Posted by: Bolder at July 20, 2008 11:36 PM

According to the broker, the 14th. Street house has all the connections on the parlor floor to hook up a kitchen. If this is true, it would make it a lot easier to convert back to a two family and get some rental income coming in, personally, I thought that the house was big enough that I wouldn't miss garden level, and the money coming in would be nice. The carriage house had what appeared to be a capped off 4" cast iron waste line and a water line coming in, but the broker didn't know if they were connected or not. It seems like they were, because they went to some pains to leave an access area when they poured the slab.
I thought that the house itself was very nice. Yeah, some minor problems here and there, but overall very nice space, tastefully done, and the carriage house made me drool when I thought of all my tools in it, but the block itself leaves something to be desired. W
While 5th. Ave. is getting hipper and hipper, I doubt if the Bank of America, Blockbuster, Seven/Eleven, Footlocker or Rent-A-Center are going anywhere which is going to make it tough for that particular strip to change much.
Some of the houses on 14th. itself were really depressing. For a lower price I could deal with that, but not for almost 2 mil.
Nice house though.

Posted by: Bond at July 21, 2008 12:00 AM

Well, Bolder, I certainly hope that this time of summer is why there's so little on the market right now. Really, I don't get it - I know the market is shifting but really, any seller whose had their house more than a few years would still make a very tidy profit - even if prices dropped as much as 20%. So why is no one selling? Is it just the time of year? I keep hoping more retirees will want to cash out, esp since home prices just about everywhere else in the country are so cheap so you could sell your NYC place, buy a beautiful home in say, North Carolina or Florida, and have a nice retirement. OK, I know folks will say that banks/stock market are iffy now, but you can spread your cash around in conservative places and there are certainly plenty of safe banks (it's the smaller regional ones that are most at risk now...). And actually, if I was thinking of selling, I'd actually sell NOW when prices are still pretty high, instead of waiting a year or so, since with all the economic bad news, things could get a lot worse in the NYC housing market. Anyway, I can see how a garden kitchen can work in some cases, but 14th St left me pretty cold, esp for that shockingly optimistic price, so I hope there will indeed be more listings come the fall...

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 21, 2008 12:03 AM

Miss Muffet, if you were looking specifically in the South Slope, where I live, it could be noted that there are more houses for sale than a year ago. But in the SS it seems owners tend to list more with local brokers that I never heard of than the big guns, and so the listings don't seem to make the regular channels. But if you walk/cycle/drive around there is product in the SS.

Posted by: denton at July 21, 2008 6:51 AM

Hey, anyone make it to 17 Park Place (BHS listing)? I was curious about that one, but out of town, so couldn't go.

Posted by: chambley at July 21, 2008 8:41 AM

When the 14th street house was a complex of rentals, it had a parlor kitchen and the carriage house was it's own rental and I think it also had it's own plumbing. I think they cleared it all out so that it would not pose a problem for C of Os if someone want to buy.

Miss Muffett- I think that there's probably a lot of people who would take this house and run with it. It poses a few challenges, but it's not really a fixer upper. The possibilities are really nice, but it's also nice enough to move into and wait for a real renovation. It's going to appeal to a smaller number of buyers, but that market is there, and there is a subset of the market looking to move into these little woodframes. I think at this point, we all understand at this point that the house doesn't appeal to you.

It's priced too high, but let the seller worry about that. Someone will bid it down to where the market will bear it.

Posted by: Park Place at July 21, 2008 9:31 AM

I have a house in the S Slope (closer to N Slope than 14th st, btw. 4th & 5th but a prettier block than most) that I'm thinking of putting on market in the fall. Are you interested, Ms. Muffet? Are you looking for something finished or fixer-upper?

Posted by: ssloper at July 21, 2008 9:49 AM

Ssloper, I'd be interested to hear more about your house (fixer uppers are fine for us). Can I email you off-list?

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 21, 2008 10:22 AM

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