Ikea is Everyday People

The diversity you see at Ikea in Red Hood is also very visible at Elizabeth. There is huge immigrant population in entire metro area.
I love the waterfront promenade in Red Hook.
That line about store is for everyday Brooklynites -- typical unapologetic elitist NYTimes perspective.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 9:14 AM

Actually, I see this at every IKEA. Many different languages, and you know that they're all asking the same thing: "When we finish, can we go get some meatballs?"

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 9:25 AM

I'm still confused by the perennial complaint that Ikea stuff falls apart. I have a little shelf unit that has moved across the Atlantic, and through 2 other NYC moves, and it is still as solid and lovely as it was the day I bought it... in... um... 1997? 96? No idea. Perhaps these people just don't know how to tighten a screw?

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 9:42 AM

9.14 why is that elitist. Its just reality. Or do you think everyday brooklynites shop at ABC for their furniture?

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 9:55 AM

These "everyday people" (aka poor people) can do themselves some good by actually shopping at quality stores, which we should have in Red Hook instead of this Ikea crap. This is just a tool to keep the poor, poor.

Elitist garbage from the NYTimes . .surpirse surprise

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 9:58 AM

Agree with other posters about the same diversity at other Ikeas. I frequent the Elizabeth store and see the same exact types described in the article, EVERY time I go.

Regarding the quality of the furniture--the tables are great, but my sister, friend, and I all bought the same dresser, a Hemnes 4- and 6- drawer chest, and all 3 have fallen apart and warped. Truly disappointing. I will restrict my Ikea purchases to tables alone.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:06 AM

I too have a couple of IKEA items that have lasted for years. I'm sure people's incompetence with instructions and allen keys is the problem.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:07 AM

Ikea is the best thing to happen to Red Hook since it ceased to be a working port.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:14 AM

Was there a diabled lesbian eskimo too?

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:20 AM

Everyday does not mean poor. Everyday is the middle ground, the most common. Poor people don't go shopping for new furniture. They get it second-hand, off the street, or from friends and family. Or they do without as best they can.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:22 AM

bring on the walmart and put it right next to the ikea.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:24 AM

We prefer the term "Differently-abled Inuit Womyn who love Womyn."

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:25 AM

albo is a nyt manque, having sold his artistic soul for a paycheck and access and publicity. he makes a lot of assumptions about the folks walking through the ikea, assumptions that are probably shared by many times readers who might "get out to brooklyn to see it, cause i read a story in the paper about it, and its kinda happening, and i wanna be happening, or at least not 10 years behind it..."

the truth is that the nyt has been 'behind it' for about the last...million?...years. or maybe just since they got in bed with ratner on their new tower. let's not forget their complicity in gwb's fun war abroad. but i digress...

ikea is a disaster for bklyn, in the same way that the "new" times square was a disaster for new york. it's the point of the spear, in the overall, over arching, over oppression of all things individual, untidy, unsurveilled. Identical shiney new glass towers, idential crap ass, flat pack bedside tables, identical supersized population.

"make lemonade?" kinda makes me want to mix up some kool-aid......

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:36 AM

Good to see that even its shopping critic has to go through the NYT's "thought editor". Mention of Diversity? Check. Insertion of gay couples/marriage into story? Check. Reference to how NYC is under siege by big,bad developers who want to homgenize every neighborhood (with rich elitists, who, we are embarassed to admit, happen to be akin to NYT editors)? Check.

Is it any wonder that this newspaper is sinking into an (unprofitable) niche, and is becoming irrelevant to the life of New York and our country? For the first time in its history, the NYT had to recently lay off members of its editorial staff.

Hey NYT, how about applying a new concept of diversity: diversity of thinking and some degree of editorial freedom?

Benson

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:39 AM

the tone ikea is 'everyday brooklyn people'... not everyday 'NewYorkers'. Don't wanna include the more sophisticated manhattan person(code for white affluent) in this.
Of course writer has no idea where the shopppers live... But gratuitously wants the reader to know how cute these natives and commoners. That is the jist of NYTimes.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:39 AM

"ikea is a disaster for bklyn, in the same way that the "new" times square was a disaster for new york."

It's cool how you masterfully skewer your own argument.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:40 AM

The point that most people miss is that the profits from these types of corporate chain stores (target, wal-mart, ikea) don't stay in the community, and in this case, don't even stay in the country.

sure, it creates jobs, but not many high-paying ones, and sure, it creates sales taxes for our coffers, but it's not the same as setting up and supporting successful stores -owned by locals- that sell merchandise created by locals using local suppliers and skilled labor that live here.

and these guys were really total pricks when they got their hands on the property - demolishing buildings against stop work orders, releasing asbestos, messing with the graving dock, etc.

I actually like Ikea, I don't have a lot of money, and I've bought their products in the past, but I'll try to avoid them now if at all possible.

They're really no different from McDonalds.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:43 AM

"it's not the same as setting up and supporting successful stores -owned by locals- that sell merchandise created by locals using local suppliers and skilled labor that live here"

Those shops are called boutiques, can be found in Dumbo, and are not affordable to the vast majority of Brooklynites.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 10:49 AM

To everyone who cries "snobbish" and "elitist" wolves: A little self-reflection would be great for your soul. How dare you chastise people for where they choose to shop? That is downright condescending and, yes, elitist.

And it's truly snobby of you to look down on the "not high-paying jobs." If these hundreds of Ikea workers could find better paying positions somewhere else, don't you think they would've taken those instead? And can all these hundreds of people all become owners of "local stores?"

And where are those mythical "small stores which have comparable prices and better service?" Ikea sells a pair of dishwashing brushes for 99 cents (and somewhat designed). Please tell me where else to get a deal like this. I've been looking high and low.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 11:33 AM

What is so great about Red Hook that an IKEA outlet would mess it up?

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 11:47 AM

What I really don't understand is why many of you seem to define us Brooklynites' characters and spirits by where we eat (Say no to Olive Garden on Fourth Ave!) and where we shop (Death to corporate chains!). That is quite some shallow, pathetic BS.

Granted I dislike those stores myself but I object the notion that their mere existence would destroy our unique identity and culture. If the "fabric" (what a pretentious word that all you arm chair critics love to use) of our neighborhood was this easy to be broken and erased, then we had a much larger problem than some chain stores.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 11:47 AM

I was talking to a cashier at Lowe's a while back, and she was commenting about how many of her coworkers were leaving to take a job at the Red Hook Ikea because it was a good opportunity for them.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 11:50 AM

I disagree;

I did read the article, and I think some of your points are off. I agreed with your point about the hysteria of the "slippery slope" agument. I generally like Ikea, and believe it is a fine addition to Red Hook (BTW, I was born and spent my early childhood in Red Hook, a stone's throw away from where Fairway is located).

My diagreement with you is on the NYT's article. As I noted in my previous post, it is typical of the Times' elitism and rigid view of the world. For example, I note that he classified all of the folks into the standard Times' categories (gay couples, Latino's, etc.), which they translate into "diversity". In the modern day world, however, isn't life more complex than these shopworn categories? Did he actually talk to these everyday people he supposedly loves, and as a good reporter would, and really get a glimpse into their full background and what draws them to the store? I note that there is not a single quote from these people. Rather, he simply identifies them by their visual, coded, stereotypes. This is elitism.

Benson

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 11:50 AM

Does Ikea sell bleu cheese smashed potatoes? Not MASHED potatoes, but SMASHED potatoes?

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 11:52 AM

ikea is fine. it's us that we need to worry about. we're losing our capacity for everything, except tolerance of inexpensive goods, many of which we don't need.

loss of the graving dock outrage? hardly.
(and those could have been good/great jobs).

overloaded transportation infrastructure outrage? i don't think so. (too bad about the deferred non-existent repairs on the smith/9th stop!)

100,000 gallons of raw sewage pouring into the canal after every rainstorm general outcry and apoplexy? i don't see it. (and that won't be fixed for any time soon, either?)

we're all living beyond our means here. brooklyn risks sinking into it's own garbage. it's not ikea's fault. it's ours.

but maybe that's the kind of city we want. more Rio style, with the swells sequesterd in DUMBO, while the rest of use sort through the "as is" pile at Ikea.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 11:52 AM

It's xenophobic to complain that Ikea is taking money out of the country. A large part of our nation's wealth is accumulated through 200 years of foreign trades. Like it or not, as an US citizen we have been living and breathing the benefits. So stop complaining when the table is turned.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 11:58 AM

i need ikea and walmart in my life so i can continue to pay $11 per drink at the clover club and $20 steak at tabac (local businesses)

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 11:59 AM

ABC Carpet and Home is my favorite home furnishings store in NYC. I can't afford to buy much of anything in there. I can't afford $24 wash cloths, $1200 duvet covers, or $3000 chandeliers, forget about the furniture. I would prefer to shop in quirky home furnishings shops, with cool stuff that not everyone else has, preferably in Brooklyn, but the fact that remains is that small shops with quality goods have to be more expensive in order to survive, and people do not patronize them with the regularity that would enable them to stay in business by selling for less than top price. I am in this industry, so I know better than some what things cost.

Everyone now wants made in America, everyone wants a pot hand thrown by an artisan they can see in the back room, or draperies sewn as they speak from fabric they just picked out, but when it comes down to it, as evidenced on this blog or the forum everyday, no one wants to pay for the privilege. You can't have it both ways. Good craftwork costs good money.

Ikea is a work of genius. Sell tons of merchandise cheap, and make up in volume what you don't charge in price. Sell flat packed case goods, to cut down on production costs. Knock off popular home furnishings trends, and use lower grade woods, third tier leathers, laminates and veneers, foam paddings, and plastics and make it look great, and make it affordable to everyone, especially lower income folks, whose choices are pretty limited. They are also providing the community with jobs, and that's a good thing too. Pretty good marketing strategy for tough economic times.

Idiot soft news NYT reporters, who write for their bemused audiences they think must only live on the Upper East and West Sides of Manhattan, are usually annoying and condescending, true. But the people here who act as if Ikea is the Great Satan are worse. If you don't like the quality or the merch, shop elsewhere. Please. Shop in the small boutiques in SoHo, or DUMBO. Order custom furniture from an artisan in a workshop in the Navy Yard. Hire a Brooklyn sewer to make pillows and duvet covers and curtains. Buy from a potter in Park Slope. We would all be very happy, and you would be helping local people make a living.
- Montrose Morris

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 12:02 PM

Montrose;

Good post. On this one, I'm in full agreement with you.

Benson

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 12:16 PM

Great post Montrose.

Ikea presents a difficult choice for liberal white people: should they love it because it is European (Scandanavian even, which to a liberal white person represents proof that socialism isn't a complete failure), or should they hate it because it is a big corporation that sells cheap consumer goods? It's like a McDonalds owned by a deaf/mute couple that fled persecution in Uganda. A liberal white person could spend days sorting through the moral impliicaions of buying one of their burgers.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 12:45 PM

if this keeps the peasants out of my local DWR, then I'm all for this Ikea location.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 12:47 PM

It's not so much elitism as bad writing. Delivering the examples of people cited in the article is Journalism 101. The Times has way too much of this: you pretty much know what the article will say before you read it. Too often the Times' "human interest" stories come across as entitled (white) folks observing the "poors in their natural habitat", like the bus tours they used to run thru Harlem or tours of psuedo-real opium dens in Chinatown at the turn of the 20th Century. Slumming by proxy for the Summering-in-Amagansett readership.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 12:52 PM

I think it is a mistake to turn the waterfront into a big box mall...but..love the free water taxi..get a bottle of chilled wine, some bread and cheese and hop on for the free 1/2 hour ride! I do think Ikeas needs to get the bus situation in control. They are empty and over-sized tour buses and speed down residential streets. One accident already, I hope that nobody needs to die (as usual in this neck of the woods) before they fix those buses. How about they co-opt those under-utilized trolleys from Borough Hall!

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 1:01 PM

12.52, nice of you to say that white folks are entitled.

Better than the opposite: those self-entitled folks of other races.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 1:09 PM

"I did find the attitude of the article to be a bit on the obnoxious side ...."

Someone besting you at being obnoxious, bxgrl? I hope we hear more from them.

This is like shooting fish in a barrel!

Isn't it lunch time, bxgrl? Don't you go mooch off your landlord for a free meal now?

:-)

- bxgrl

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 1:17 PM

Carol Gardens;

I like your statement: "It is such a cliché to call the NYT Times "elitist", but in this case, it does not apply."

Do you realize that your statement contradicts itself?

It seems odd to me that a person writes an article in which he claims that he "loves" the everyday folks of Brooklyn, yet writes precious little about them, and doesn't provide a SINGLE quote from them. Especially since this point is the conclusion of his article, that is, the "lemonade". Perhaps you can tell me, since you understand this writer: What exactly does he "love" about these folks, other than the fact that he can fit them satisfactorily into the NYT's "diversity" categories?

As someone aptly put it above, his description of these folks is akin to taking a double-decker bus to tour the poor in their communities.

Benson

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 1:18 PM

I've struggled in the past with IKEA opening in Red Hook, but before they opened I realized that the most important thing about it is that it created jobs for people who live in the area- people with little or no income that were not going to get jobs at any of the local boutiques.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 1:31 PM

"Am off to weasel a sandwich out of my landlord. I know when she eats lunch!"

- bxgrl

I hope your landlord is around, bxgrl. Otherwise you woudl have to get off your ass and feed yourself. You lazy piece of white liberal crap.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 1:32 PM

hey where is the black couple???lol. Thats the problem with liberalism, all you see are colors and you put them in a category. If they are a minority they get special treatment, wheres the equality the liberal institutions pump into your heads?!?
Well i do like the Ikea, i think its a great addition to a rather morose part of brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 1:44 PM

3.02 - it's an idiotic line. All newspaper items are, by nature, vicarious.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 3:19 PM

All I know is that I shopped in the as-in department and made a killing. I finally have a round bed! Cue the funky bass line.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 3:24 PM

"I thought he was sort of ,well... financially elitist"

-bxgrl

Bxgrl doesn't like people who have jobs, support themselves and don't rely on handouts from their landlords to survive in this city.

bxgrl = poor white trash

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 3:25 PM

I second the complaint about the old oversized buses that spew diesel fumes in residential neighborhoods. How very environmentally friendly of Ikea.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 3:42 PM

"It's like a McDonalds owned by a deaf/mute couple that fled persecution in Uganda."

Actually the owner of Ikea is a Nazi, even if he did eventually open a store in Israel.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 4:00 PM

if it weren't for the success of many big corporations, we'd all be broke. IKEA is tasteful at least.

hypocrisy of the liberals who somehow managed to get both brownstones without jobs or income from their stockholdings or sell their properties for big gains to people who got their money from same.

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 4:18 PM

"I did find the attitude of the article to be a bit on the obnoxious side but that said, Ikea brought jobs to the neighborhood"

But NIMBY's don't care about jobs for low income people. Or whether a store offers things we actually want and need. It's all about whether something makes their neighborhood look cute and hip. Like expensive boutiques that employ only one or two people each, which are always empty because they're so expensive. Yeah that makes for a real vibrant shopping area.
woo hoo

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 4:33 PM

"As for not liking people who have jobs, far from it. I am one of them, I support myself and pay my unsubsidized rent. You obviously do none of these things because you are incapable or recognizing those of us who do."

- bxgrl

By your own admission, you rent from your friends ...

"I rent from very close friends. I have a wonderful space and I love it."

So they let you live with them in their house. Is their basement apartment even legal? So don't tell me you live in an unregulated place and think I don't know you are just renting a room.

On top of that, by your own admission, you beg for food from your landlord. How cheap are you? Can't afford to feed yourself or do you expect others to take care of you since you refuse to grow up and take responsibility for your life.

You are such a moron with an incredibly low IQ if you don't know that I have a job, own my home, don't need to have roommates and - despite a softening market - have plenty of equity in my house if I needed to sell it tomorrow.

You need to be reminded on a regular basis that you are a liar and others are going to keep you honest. If you can't handle it, I would suggest you spend a little less time on this site, get a second job - or actually do the job you are paid to do - and keep your sense of importance in check since it is obviously misplaced.

This is so much fun! It's like shooting poor white trash at a tractor pull!

:-)

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 5:29 PM

5:29 dont forget her family has been renting for 4 generations, maybe over 100 yrs. Again by her own admission.

Her bitterness towards the working class is DEEP rooted!

Posted by: guest at July 3, 2008 6:30 PM

I'm encouraged to read that there are many small stores in Brooklyn where one can buy things of comparable quality and price with a little knowledge. I happen to be in the market for a bunk bed, and wonder if anyone could point me to one of those stores so I don't have to support IKEA. The MYDAL bunkbed costs $159 at IKEA, but I haven't found anything comparable for less than $300. Thanks in advance!

Posted by: guest at July 4, 2008 7:35 AM

How kind of idiot would name oneself WonTon? Oh I get it, another secretly-I-wish-I-was-white banana/twinkie who acts liberal because that makes him/her feel whiter. His/her put down of Chinese workers and goods is a big give-away. You know what? These "underpaid ex-peasants" upon whom you bestow your condescending compassion are actually happy to escape the extreme poverty of rural inland and proud to be able to support their families.

And thank you for pointing out the .99 pair of Ikea brushes are cheaply made (because they are from China they must be bad!) and don't last long. I really appreciate that information otherwise I could never figure that out myself by looking at the .99 price tag. Next time I'll remember to pay $2.99 for just one brush in a local store. Although it's also plastic and made in China but somehow it must be a better product because the mom-n-pop owners and someone called WonTon told me so.

Posted by: guest at July 4, 2008 10:02 AM

Hey 7:35, saving money and being financially responsible IS being socially conscious and responsible. The debt Americans are under is a problem for all of us. Getting Americans to be more frugal is a very good thing. Also, shopping at large stores sometimes is also more ecologically responsible. The impact of numerous small stores vs. one big store in an area is huge. It means many many more separate trucks making more frequent deliveries to stores.

In these ways NIMBY's beliefs are absurdly inconsistent. Don't follow them blindly. Question the issue, examine it, and make your own decision. And don't feel badly if you buy your bunk bed at Ikea, please.

Posted by: guest at July 4, 2008 10:25 AM

Jeremy- if you were actually reading the thread you would see that I never stated that, I was using it in my response to "guest".

And if you have such a dislike of Americans, why not return to the country from which you came? If you were born here, well, you're obviously a product of your generation and family. I am rotflmao after reading your response- you address the wrong person, are asking the wrong questions and have about as much of a moral compass as the bush Administration. which is to say- none.Perhaps if you and your ilk worried more about your own shortcomings (and I can see that cellulite is the least of your problems) you would not only do a better job of finding solutions, but be a better human being and maybe even a better American. Wow- what a concept.

I'm not going to apologize for thinking the richest society in the world can afford to show compassion for those who have less than I do or are struggling. without compassion you've got nothing and you are nothing.

Posted by: guest at July 4, 2008 6:00 PM

Say what you will but the store was packed last night at 9:30pm and every check out had 15-20 people waiting to complete their purchases. Ikea in Elizabeth has been around since the mid 90's so I dont forsee this location doing badly.
We tried buying a twin bed for my daughter from the "mom & pop" stores in Sunset park and they sucked. "no I dont have that one in stock what about this one or Ill order one for next week" was common answers while Ikea had dozens in stock at the advertised price. Plus we bought a harem style mosquito netting that transformed a plain bedroom for a 4 yr old into something different and interesting and she loved it.
While it was being built where do you suppose all the contractors and Ikea corporate people stayed, right here in Brooklyn spending money at local hotels and restaurants. Ok now spew your venom.

Posted by: guest at July 4, 2008 10:25 PM

Pssssp.... Jeremy did you hear? the dollar is weak now. You can go back home.

Posted by: guest at July 5, 2008 12:50 AM

7:23 We used to.We even used to like that fact that we were different but American at the same time. People who think like Jeremy are a product of privilege, selfishness and ignorance. Their big worry of the day is whether or not they're thin enough, hip enough, privileged enough or have enough. And all I can say is everyone young eventually gets old- and then your ideas can change drastically. Or maybe the first time something goes wrong in life and no one is there to help.

Posted by: guest at July 5, 2008 8:26 PM

Kristine;

Your last paragraph is laughable. Yes, as an American, I think I'll take a lecture about diversity from a citizen of a country whose population is about the same as New York City, and that is highly homogenous. Here, according to Wikipedia, are are the largest immigrant groups to Sweden: Finland, Iraq, Former Yugoslavia, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Turkey, Poland, Russia and Iran. Wow, you're really blazing a path towards diversity! Who knew? Please let us know how you manage to assimilate all of these groups.

I am also not inclined to follow the example of a county which was the largest practioner of eugenics prior to the Nazis, or have you conveniently forgetten that fact? Yes, it is easy to think of "us and us", when you have eliminated all of the "them".

It is the biggest conceit of liberal Europeans to lecture Americans about how we treat our immigrants. When you get your shot at it (see the French, for example), then I'll take you seriously.

Benson

Posted by: guest at July 5, 2008 10:22 PM

Kristine and all;

Is this what you mean by the Swedish attitude towards diversity and socialism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics#Sweden

Benson

Posted by: guest at July 5, 2008 10:30 PM

I don't get why this is a conversation about socialism. 12:45 posted some stupid crap about liberals, ikea and socialism, and others responded. Seems those who constantly throw the word liberal around with such abandon have no clue to what it means. It's just used to describe anyone who disagrees with them. Liberals are open-minded and community minded. Conservatives are money-grubbing, tight-fisted a**holes who would kill their mothers for a dime, or ship someone else's son to Iraq so their gas guzzling cars can have cheap fuel. they way this country is going thanks to them, socialism is sounding pretty damn good.

Posted by: guest at July 6, 2008 1:37 AM

1.37 AM;

Very "intelligent" post. Yes, one side has a lock on morality.

Next time, before engaging the pen or mouth, why don't you do some research?

Recently Sweden has been among the leaders in moving towards many of the principles that conservatives advocate. For instance, Sweden has privatized all of its pension. It has also been rapidly deregulating its industries and lowering its income tax rate so as to remian competitive. Here's the info from Wikipedia:

"Sweden is a world leader in privatized pensions and pension funding problems are relatively small compared to many other Western European countries.[48] Swedish labor market has become more flexible, but it still has some widely acknowledged problems.[47] The typical worker receives only 40% of his income after the tax wedge. The slowly declining overall taxation, 51.1% of GDP in 2007, is still nearly double of that in the United States or Ireland"

Sweden has also moved to universal school vouchers. Here's the info from Wikipedia:

"Uniquely, Sweden is known for being a leader in free-market revolution.[65] While most pre-tertiary students are still enrolled in municipality-managed schools, Sweden introduced education vouchers in 1992, one of the first in the world after Netherlands. Anyone can establish a for-profit school and the municipality must pay new schools the same amount as municipal schools get. For instance, the biggest school chain, Kunskapsskolan, offers 30 schools and a web-based environment, teaches nearly 10,000 pupils, and makes decent profit. Over 10% of pupils were enrolled in private schools in 2008 and numbers are growing fast.[65] The system is popular among voters and the consumer choice has helped to improve education."

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Benson

Posted by: guest at July 6, 2008 8:20 AM

Just what bubble do you think you're bursting? In one post you're trashing Kristine and Sweden and in the next you extolling it's virtues. On top of that you seem to the conservatives have a handle on how to run things well and we can see very clearly that they most certainly don't. My guess is that privatizing industry in Sweden will be done very differently than here in the States and school vouchers are part of an entirely different school system- one vastly superior to that in the US.

As for which side has a lock on morality- it seems that conservatives just love tossing around the "L" word and then get offended that liberals respond. Maybe if conservatives weren't so rabidly partisan and cared about solutions we wouldn't be in the national mess we're in today. At the very least they should learn how to take responsibility for it.

Posted by: guest at July 6, 2008 9:44 AM