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July 21, 2008

House of the Day: 586 4th Street

586-4th-Street-0708.jpg
$3 million is no longer a lay-up asking price in Park Slope, but this limestone house at 586 4th Street seems to have what it takes. It's in a Park block, generously proportioned and chock full of original details like parquet floors, mahogany paneling and plaster crown moldings. Do you agree that the $2,999,999 asking price is realistic?
586 4th Street [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark




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Comments

I'm not able to open Corcoran's website right now for some reason, but I actually saw this listing the other day when looking at their newest listings.

I think it looks like a beautiful home at a reasonable price.

I think they've priced it to sell. This probably would have been listed at over 3 million a year ago.

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 1:44 PM

Very nice place and amazing location. And I would prefer to be slightly off PPW, as this home is, as opposed to on PPW. If this goes for well under $3MM, I think that'll be a strong indication that even the most desirable 'hoods in Brooklyn are suffering.

Posted by: Biff Champion at July 21, 2008 1:54 PM

This is a clear winner. I can't imagine them having any problem getting their price.

Posted by: cgguy at July 21, 2008 1:56 PM

realistic? it's a BARGAIN. she be double, if not triple, this.

Posted by: puto jones at July 21, 2008 2:03 PM

yummmm... I wonder about the mechanicals tho, especially being 99 years with one family. Still, a veritable bargain unless there are real major problems.

Posted by: denton at July 21, 2008 2:21 PM

I believe it said 2 families in 99 years, Denton.

And there's no reason to assume that just because someone has lived in a place a long time, that they automatically don't update the building.

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 2:33 PM

Sorry for the corny Dylan ref, but that place is Positively 4th Street.
Seriously, I usually am the 1st to cry "overpriced" but this looks like a bullseye at 3 mil.

Posted by: Prodigal_Son at July 21, 2008 2:41 PM

If the mechanicals have been updated any time recently, they ALWAYS mention that in the listings for this sort of house.

Two quibbles with this place: While there is a third exposure, it is exposed to the back of the apartment building, so I am not a fan of that. Also, the backyard is rather small.

Sweet looking house though. I'm guessing it goes for 2.6. Less if it needs mechanical updates.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at July 21, 2008 2:42 PM

I'll predict it will go for over, as a bidding war will ensue. But what do I know?

Posted by: new2hood at July 21, 2008 2:52 PM

I'd rather have the third exposure facing an apartment building than on a busy corner which is the situation for most three exposure type buildings. Fantastic house, I agree that it's better to be right off the park than on PPW. Only serious downside is walk, or should I say the hike to the train. The F sucks and the 2/3 is pretty far.

Posted by: Brooklynnative at July 21, 2008 2:53 PM

Nice listing written in actual English for a change.

The exterior is amazing ... Facade and side-windows. 55 x 20, etc.

Interior is just ok for a $3MM house. I don't see any plaster medallions and the ceilings look very plain (drywall patch-overs?!). The kitchen is crap for this price-point. Plus, 55' deep building WITH extension makes for a tiny yard (only 20 deep) and a dark dining room.

Last nitpick - don't price a $3MM house at $2,999,999 ... It makes you look silly (like you're selling something on an infomercial). $2,999,000 works just fine.

Posted by: Mr Joist at July 21, 2008 2:54 PM

What's the square footage? If you figure 1100 pef floor (20 x 55), 3 floors + garden level, that's 4400, which puts $psf at 682 - not bad for very prime property in perfect location. But Property Shark (which I know sometimes has errors) lists it only at 3390 sf, which is 885 psf, significantly heftier.

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 21, 2008 2:54 PM

new2hood....I wouldn't bet against you on that one.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 21, 2008 2:55 PM

I think 2.6, (even if the mechanicals are not updated) is totally unrealistic.

Even 2.8 would sound like a relative bargain to me for this house.

I believe comps would support a 3 million dollar asking/selling price, even with the softening market.


Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 2:56 PM

The last few "biggest sales" in the Slope listed on this blog all went for below ask. Why should this one fare any better?

Posted by: SnarkSlope at July 21, 2008 3:00 PM

Wow - nice house. I'm surprised at the price, as I'm so used to seeing park-block houses in the $3.25mil+ range and park-block houses with this kind of detail over $3.4mil. Besides the smallish backyard, the only thing I can see that someone might kick about is one center-hall bathroom per floor on the bedroom levels. I'm not a fan of the huge master bath but it's possible that someone in this price range is looking for an en suite master bath off the master bedroom. LOVE that they kept the (presumably original) sinks in each bedroom.

Posted by: zeebee_in_bklyn at July 21, 2008 3:00 PM

"The last few "biggest sales" in the Slope listed on this blog all went for below ask."


The last few "biggest sales" I saw were also overpriced.

This one does not seem so.

And actually I recall a house on 3rd Street selling for either 200K or 400K over the asking price not too long ago.

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 3:05 PM

"Do you agree that the $2,999,999 asking price is realistic?"

Absolutely not. It'll go well over ask. Who they think they fooling - inciting us to a bidding war?

Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at July 21, 2008 3:09 PM

Ah yes, the old "if they sold below ask, they were overpriced, but that is no indication of a softening market" argument.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at July 21, 2008 3:17 PM

A note to all brokers and sellers:

Since NYC has largely not yet felt the affects of the housing meltdown felt across the country, it would be wise to take a note from this property and continue to price them aggressively.

If we can avoid a huge surge in inventory, we will feel far less pain here. Get things sold quickly (even if it means having to swallow your pride a little bit) and we could really escape this housing meltdown in a far less harmful way.

We have the knowledge from watching what's going on around the rest of the U.S. Learn something from it before it's too late.

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 3:17 PM

Looks pretty sweet. I'll bet they get their asking price, perhaps even $1 more.

Posted by: FatLenny at July 21, 2008 3:26 PM

11217 do you seriously believe even one seller will price their property (and "swallow their pride") to help NYC avoid a housing downturn?

Posted by: Brooklynnative at July 21, 2008 3:30 PM

I don't think it will happen, Brooklynnative, but I can hope.

Americans are going to have to change in the coming months and years probably more than they've had to in decades. We are so far insulated from it, but when I leave NYC, it is becoming painfully obvious what a serious reversal of this country's values needs to take place before we start to become economically viable again.

Things are really messed up right now (and I'm not saying that in a "the what", kinda way), but this isn't something that is going to change without people making a significant change in their lives.

It's time for people to re-evaluate what is important.

Sorry...I don't mean for this to sound like a lecture. It's advice I am taking to heed as well...

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 3:39 PM

You hope people "swallow their pride"? The real estate market in NYC is way more rational than you give it credit for. This isn't about pride and "reevaluating what is important". This is about what people are willing to pay to live somewhere. You make it sound like there is something noble about pricing your house aggressively.

Posted by: Paluka at July 21, 2008 3:46 PM

I think 11217's advice to sellers/brokers is not altruistic - basically, if they want to sell promptly, a more realistic sales price is the way to go. A lot of prices these days seem to be aiming for the opposite - as if they are building in a 10-20% pad assuming they will get this much under ask, but this can be shooting oneself in the foot as some buyers will just balk and stay away, or the property will linger and eventually go for even less than it might have had it been priced more realistically to begin with. Sellers/brokers should remember that they can still make a *lot* of money compared to what they bought the properties for, if they've owned the property for more than a few years. Even a 20% decline in prices would be modest compared to the run-up of last few years...

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 21, 2008 3:51 PM

11217, what are you talking about? You think willfully lowering price will affect inventory and improve the market?! Do you know how the economy functions? The appropriate price is decided by the market, not the seller or broker. The seller can decide to take the market price or not.

Posted by: FatLenny at July 21, 2008 3:52 PM

11217's IQ must be 11.1217.

Posted by: Brooklynnative at July 21, 2008 4:14 PM

When I said, swallow your pride, I was mostly referring to brokers (some who I know) who want to be the first to sell a place on 3rd for 4 million or whatever. That was an example.

These brokers are super competitive and we all know it's a better idea to price things on the lower side than the alternative.

I find a retort of criticizing someone's IQ to be the lowest form of intelligence. I've made ZERO personal remarks towards anyone here, and if you don't like my post, you are free to skip it.

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 4:19 PM

Oh and there are only two 1's in 11217, Brooklynnative.

They've changed the zip code system. Only 5 numbers these days...

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 4:22 PM

"I've made ZERO personal remarks towards anyone here ....(congratulations I'm real impressed)... and if you don't like my post, you are free to skip it." Yeah but I'm also allowed to point out how silly it sounds.

Posted by: Brooklynnative at July 21, 2008 4:37 PM

"You make it sound like there is something noble about pricing your house aggressively."

Nope, not noble. Just smart.

I didn't claim to be bringing new information to the table, just that when a property is overpriced in a softening market, it sits longer, which leads to increased inventory, which then leads to making people nervous, which leads to even longer time on the market, which leads to no one being able to sell their house. Of COURSE anyone has the right to make an offer they feel is appropriate for any given property (thus determining market value) but many people do not do that. If that were the case, lots of people would be buying up property in Vegas and Miami for a song. It's all a spiral, which with some foresight, could perhaps be softened if more people priced their homes such that people think they're getting a deal.

Do any of you have any experience with any city/state or country outside of NYC?

It seems many of you have never left Brooklyn.

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 4:50 PM

11217 @ 4:19

"I've made ZERO personal remarks towards anyone here..."

11217 @ 4:50

"Do any of you have any experience with any city/state or country outside of NYC? It seems many of you have never left Brooklyn."

11217 once again takes the high road and personally criticizes EVERYONE on this board. LOL.

Posted by: Brooklynnative at July 21, 2008 5:03 PM

"11217 once again takes the high road and personally criticizes EVERYONE on this board. LOL."

No, I was actually referring mainly to you, Brooklynnative.

And I take back my personal attack comment. You deserve it. You are nasty. One of the reasons I never commented on Brownstoner before last week was because of people like you who seem to actually get off on being rude and inconsiderate.

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 5:06 PM

overpriced, 2.1 tops.

Posted by: Xander Crews at July 21, 2008 5:27 PM

sellers: if you want to move your house. take the price your broker gave and shave it in half. this place would be a steal at $1.499999mn.

Posted by: jingle mail at July 21, 2008 5:48 PM

I think most people understand what is going on in real estate outside Brooklyn, but most people also understand that Brooklyn and New York City have very little to do with the rest of the country. There is very limited land in the city. Incomes are higher here. There was never an epidemic of subprime and other questionable mortgages in brownstone brooklyn. New York has been rapidly gentrifying leading to more people with money being willing to live here with kids longer and need larger spaces. There is a ton of foreign money pouring into the real estate market here as well. New York is just not the rest of the country. There are some good reasons why we might see a price drop in real estate here, but the fact that there are too many condos sitting on the market in Miami and Vegas isn't really one of them.

Posted by: Paluka at July 21, 2008 9:59 PM

I think it's SPUNK-TABULOUS!!!!!

Wow do I wish I had $3M. They could keep the change.

Posted by: turdferguson at July 21, 2008 10:10 PM

I guess there are no takers on my square footage question, but I think 11217 really does have a point, which is that properties priced more aggressively make sense in the current market. As Paluka points out, NY is different from rest of the country, which is why we have not seen the same market crash here that has happened in other areas. But we are seeing a softening, and NYC is not totally immune to what is happening elsewhere. Historically, NYC has lagged the rest of the country, and in deed there are many reasons to think real price declines may happen here. Not as bad as Vegas and Miami, but certainly enough to be considered a "correction".

Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 21, 2008 10:32 PM

The 3380 square footage figure is 3 floors + the kitchen. It seems like they are treating the garden level like a basement. Personally, I don't think that $/sq ft is a very useful barometer in these Brooklyn houses. That comparison works fine for commercial spaces and cookie-cutter apartments. But these houses vary wildly in both condition and how effectively they use their square footage.

Posted by: Paluka at July 21, 2008 10:40 PM


i love the way people insist that new york city is totally insulated from the wider real estate (rather, economic) trends. think about this -- when the RE market was on the rise (last year, year before) you could see it in any major city center. everywhere, people paying a premium for city living, loft-condo conversions of once-undesirable spaces, etc. one would have to agree that at one point there was some degree of parity in market behavior, even if NY prices were scaled up from other metropolitan areas.

doesn't it seem unreasonable to maintain that the relationship no longer holds when the market is moving in the opposite direction?

Posted by: oneonetwotwoone at July 22, 2008 1:29 AM

The price reflects the fact that the house though beautiful is only three floors. The basement is a basement, not a garden level.

Posted by: marlowe at January 4, 2009 5:06 PM

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