House of the Day: 274 Lafayette Avenue

Lame... this duo tried the same gimmick with 193 Washington Park. I believe it was dubbed "serenity" or something like that. Didn't work. House is off the market after numerous price reductions.

Anyone know who this "owner/filmmaker" with an eye for detail is?

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 1:44 PM

i know it's hard to tell without seeing it in person, but if the house was done head-to-toe in faithful restoration as the photos seem to suggest, the renovation must have cost a pretty penny. doesn't change the location, however. lafayette may be a beautiful thoroughfare, but it's a bit of a racetrack in my opinion. not sure how this pricetag compares with recent/comparable sales in the neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 1:47 PM

Way too much bus and other traffic on Lafayette for that price.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 1:55 PM

Looks good, but if the renovation is really as good as they say, shouldn't there be a lot more pictures?

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 1:59 PM

any thoughts on what makes this one worth the extra 300 grand?

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:03 PM

I live one block down on lafayette between st. james & grand, and there is no difference in traffic noise there and any other smaller street once you are inside the house . zero.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:14 PM

Yeah, but once you come out onto your stoop, it's a freeway.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:23 PM

2:24 never opens the windows apparently.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:27 PM

The What has a point. The escalation of prices in the market were based upon the availability of finacing, cheap or otherwise. Now that finacing has all but dried up, coupled with the fact that banks will not appraise at inflated prices, something has to give. I appreicate Brownstoner and his site, but the promotion of overinflated real estate in this market is simply not healthy. No hyperbole, just reason.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:32 PM

It's a strange time to consider paying these prices unless this is your dream home and you don't care what prices are going to be next year.

Real estate "bubbles" pop slowly -- the metaphor is wrong -- because buyers who overpaid can live in their tulips and (if death, divorce, disease and job changes don't demand sale) need not realize their losses. Most people prefer paper losses to cash ones, so once prices drop, many potential sellers just hunker down, trapping themselves in their investments instead of moving on with life.

Similarly, all developers are optimists, so many will convince themselves that if they can just hold on a little longer, the buyers will reappear. Cutting prices, in contrast, would often mean default and admission of failure, something that isn't very attractive to the developers or their banks (many of which are going to go under as soon as they have to admit that their loans aren't being paid back). Much better to simply pretend that nothing is wrong and maybe the next surge will work.

On the other hand, given the speed of the bubble and its low volume of sales, most owners would still have plenty of equity even if prices dropped 50%. Once those folks accept that the market is really down, they'll have relatively little problem selling for less than they hoped, especially since most of them will be putting most of their profits into a new house that has also declined in value.

Bottom line: housing declines start very slowly and often with a long period of flat prices. But this one may well accelerate once it gets going, and isn't likely to stop until prices are back to trend, which would also put them more or less back in line with replacement cost and with rental

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:42 PM

This is a beautiful brownstone, and it is a real home not a chop-shop of tiny apartments.
The price seems astronomical though. Perhaps if it were located in Cobble Hill this price would make sense, no?
But over there by Pratt, dunno, not much over there in terms of upscale services. I could be wrong. I'm sure there are lots of hip-hop bars and other things catering to students and the very young, but are there services catering to a middle-aged millionaire and family -who I would imagine would be the buyer of such an estate?

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:47 PM

Mort Zuckerman (on The MacLaughlin Group) said that he expected the longest, deepest recession since the Great Depression. I hate to believe it, but the cost of oil has barely touched us yet except for gasoline (which is finally where it should have been for the last decade). As the cost of products and services increases by double-digits, comsumer spending (wages have been stagnant for all by the top 1%) will crash and business will lay off or shut down. It's scary out there...

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:50 PM

daveinbedstuy: you gotta get outta the hood once in a while man.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:51 PM

These guys always name the houses. Do you remember "beautiful dream"? they have a much more reasonably priced listing on clermont.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:51 PM

This is not a $2M neighborhood. According to what I've read, you can buy a brownstone in prime park slope for this much. And there's a park there and that's the only neighborhood from which it can be safely approached.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:54 PM

"any thoughts on what makes this one worth the extra 300 grand?"

Marathon (front row seats).

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 2:58 PM

owned by Malik Hassan Sayeed, Spike Lee's cinematographer

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 3:05 PM

2:42, your logic seems to make sense. .but
why have other parts of the country already experienced sharp price declines but not NYC.
shouldn't your arguments apply equally to Tampa or vegas?
couldn't it be that the New York market is just different for many reasons? just asking

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 3:08 PM

Well stated 2:42...and the post regarding the price of oil is also very relevant. Monthly carrying costs will go through the roof once owners have to heat these brownstones this winter...with a (on the smaller side, mind you)$7,500 mortgage the numbers do not work nicely. Tighten your belts people, we're goin' on a fast ride and it's trajectory sure as hell ain't goin' up!!!

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 3:09 PM

Hey Dave, how much are your city income taxes (aka property taxes under another name)? Added to your property taxes probably the same as NJ. True they will go down after you retire, but you will still pay them on your retirement income so your argument is worthless in comparison.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 3:16 PM

State income taxes in NJ are a mere fraction of NYS taxes. We live in a very high-tax state. Even other high tax states like NJ and Conn. seem like tax havens by comparison. Don't kid yourself. Also NJ residents who work in NY no longer have to pay the "communter tax" so no, daveinbed, the typical NJ resident does not have to pay anywhere near the taxes a NY resident pays. Plus if the NJ resident has two or three kids they all go to good public school for free. Plus car insurance is a fraction of what it is in Brooklyn. I agree with the other poster that you should travel more.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 3:36 PM

tinarina,
I have never set foot in the neighborhood, and God willing I will never need to.
I don't go over there, sorry.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 3:40 PM

so move to jersey and stay off brownstoner

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 3:40 PM

so move to jersey and stay off brownstoner

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 3:47 PM

"State income taxes in NJ are a mere fraction of NYS taxes."

But NJ is broke so they have to go up.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 3:48 PM

3:08, the same process did happen in the crisis places -- we are just a little behind the curve. In particular, the worst hit areas were places where in the last stage of the bubble, lots of houses were bought by people who absolutely couldn't afford the mortgages they took out. The subprimers and Alt-Aers were planning to refinance before their rates went up.

We had less of that, because at the top end of our market, most transactions are heavily cash. But the cash came from -- other sales. That's musical chairs unless some new money is coming in somewhere. In the Valley and in Las Vegas the new money was lower middle class folks getting liar's loans.

NYC had some liar's loans, but the big new money here was from the top, not the bottom: banker's bonuses based on selling all that stuff to the rest of the country. Also, professionals stretching farther than anyone ever thought possible, like the guy on the BH thread who advises taking out a $1m mortgage on a $200k associate's salary. This means that our bubble lags the rest of the country. In Las Vegas, the crisis hit when the first wave of refinancings didn't happen. Here, it should hit as the first wave of Wall St-induced sales show up, which isn't going to happen before this coming fall, given when layoffs began (last winter) and the lag time before severance runs out and people begin to admit to themselves that they are going to have to downsize.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 4:08 PM

Dave- how can you compare income taxes without including the NYC tax??? That's a big chunk of change for someone who is making enough to afford to buy in these neighborhoods.

And remember that state/local income taxes are not deductible for people subject to AMT, which would include any NYC homeowner with kids and a big mortgage, but mortgage is (up to $1m).

The tax subsidy for the suburbs is still real and significant. There is a reason people move to Englewood, and it isn't just because they want pretty houses with light and quiet for 1/3 the price of a brownstone.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 4:16 PM

what is up with that HUGE hideous kitchen island. This whole kitchen island thing has just become totally out of control.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 4:21 PM

what is up with that HUGE hideous kitchen island. This whole kitchen island thing has just become totally out of control.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 4:22 PM

Dave your analysis is wrong, as usual. But always consistently boosterish.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 4:29 PM

1) 15 years ago this was very close to a couple of crack houses, and you could buy the place for around $200k.

2) You could buy the same size/shape/niceness place in Philadelphia, Baltimore, or Allentown for $200k today or less.

Brooklyn has peaked.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 4:33 PM

re 4:33, 3:49.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 4:44 PM

what is up with that HUGE hideous kitchen island. This whole kitchen island thing has just become totally out of control.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 4:44 PM

dave has never been outta da hood, except to go to Newark once, that's what he knows of NJ.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 5:03 PM

nice day in the markets. just the recipe needed to think about buying a 2 mill brownstone. the 2 mill crowd are losing a lot of their spare liquidity right now. the dow has broken some key supports. look for it to trade a lot lower going into the end of the year. sell immediately your brownstone if you are thinking about it before you miss the bid of the last great real estate bubble.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 5:04 PM

Dave,
I grew up in NJ, it wasn't so bad.
My mother still lives there. she loves it.
It actually is nice. it's not all industry and slums.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 5:08 PM

what happen to hot latina thread? who the hell screwed it up! geeze

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 5:14 PM

"1) 15 years ago this was very close to a couple of crack houses, and you could buy the place for around $200k."

It's still near crack houses and now you can buy it for close to 2 million.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 5:38 PM

the What is completely correct about the significance of Freddie and Fannie. Serious shock waves if they stop functioning, though it does sound as if the govt (oh, right, *us* -- using taxpayer money) is going to bend over backward to prevent their failure.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 5:43 PM

i hate daveinbedstuy. he is such a totally self absorbed idiot. his pretense is that he wants to talk about real estate but he just loves to have little conversations about his vacations as a kid and his impressive vocabulary. i realize i'm doing it myself: but can you people please stop responding to this moron

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 5:53 PM

Holy smokes, the Dow is off another 200 points. This looks like shit on a stick guys.
Kiss today goodbye.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 6:33 PM

at least he adds to the topic sometime.

who's the moron here 5:53?

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 6:34 PM

Your entire point about the taxes was that Bkln "property" taxes are "supposedly" a bargain compared to NJ property taxes, however once you factor in NYC city income taxes you're still bringing home the same amount, and even after your mortgage is paid off and you retire you will still be paying property taxes plus the ridiculous NYC income tax on your SSI or retirement income. Same argument people used to try to make about Long Island being more expensive because of the higher property taxes. The reality is the amount you bring home with regard to taxes (call them property or income its still a tax) is basically the same in the whole tri-state area. So quit trying to make some smug point regarding the "bargain" living in an overpriced ghetto is compared to NJ or elsewhere. It doesn't hold up and just makes you look silly..

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 7:56 PM

I agree with 7:56.
If you are really rich and want to show off to your Greenwich and Darren friends how you have the balls to live in Brooklyn, you are doing it becaue of vanity, not because of any financial benefit. People who work for a living in New York State pay more taxes than anybody. This State is a scandal. We pay through the nose and get nothing in return. Say what you want about NJ but at least they have universal health coverage for children. Do we have that in NY? In the golden Boro of Brooklyn? No!
We don't have shit except hubris.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 8:28 PM

regarding noise on lafayette - you dont need to open your front windows when you have a WHOLE brownstone, hence it stays lovely and quiet inside, and if you want a breeze you open back windows and enjoy the garden too. and the fact that lafayette is 2 lanes doesnt make it a major highway. its just a a two lane street, lined with trees, like clinton, washington, and clermont aves are. no issue.

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 9:11 PM

I think half the posters on this blog are on crack, or maybe they want to sell their brooklyn property, that's even worse. Run! Run! from anything that is posted or said on this blog. Save yourselves!!!

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 9:16 PM

74 bp is about 3/4 of 1% - so less than 1% of the on the run 10 year I'm guessing - no where near 9% but the spread is wider than usual. Let's face it - if the non=subprime borrower cannot pay their mortgage because of economic downturn due to sudden job losses then FNMA cannot service their debt and cannot issue more loans to create more debt. Taxes have to rise and social programs have to be cut. Government regulators have to be more responsible and vigilant over big business- this was such a crime to allow junk to infiltrate the banking system and so short sighted to continue policy of easy money. When central bankers become celebrities, we should all start to worry....

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 10:09 PM

I truly think that daveinbedstuy is either completely demented, deluded, or in the misinformation business. The man lies with every word, including "the" and "a".

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 10:23 PM

I agree with 9:16

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 11:07 PM

I think daveinbedstuy is single

Posted by: guest at July 9, 2008 11:51 PM