Brownstoner: House of the Day: 306 Washington Avenue

Are the rentals rent controlled or stabilized? If so, then you'll spend the rest of your life subsidizing them, or years in court trying to get them out. No way it's worth it at that price. If they're not rent controlled/stabilized, then it might be worth somewhere around the 2MM mark.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:22 PM

Using the 15X annual rent metric, the value of the three rentals is about $575,000. Is the remaining clinton hill duplex worth 1.6 million? I don't think so.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:26 PM

I say raise the rent on the three apartments.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:27 PM

"measly $3,021 per month"

Measly. Wow! I done seen it all. I've been had by sarcasm, yes?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:29 PM

It may have some original mantles and mirrors but it's clearly lost most of the original architectural details that are harder to put back. What's with that hideous division of the front and back parlors and the horrid attempt at restoring the entry way. The floor plans of the 3 rentals are also too poorly designed to generate the high rents you'll need to fund fixing this place.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:29 PM

Looks like a nice grand brownstone...

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:30 PM

1:29, $1,000 per month for a full floor rental in this location is measly. It should be twice that.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:33 PM

place is nice but it would be foolish to pay that sort of a price for Clinton Hill. Place is worth around 1.6 and with the crime spike in Clinton area I would offer 1.45.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:33 PM

1:29 #1 here. I have a tasty foot. $3,021 total.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:36 PM

I think the 'measley' reference is because from the brokers description it sounds like the rent roll is $3,021 on all three apartments, only $1,000 each, and therefore, not market rate. Measley indeed.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:38 PM

It's highly unlikely (though not impossible) that these are RC or rent-stabilized apts.

There are no kitchen or bath shots, which suggests they need upgrading. Combine that with a new owner's likely need to reconfigure the place to have more than a duplex, and get a new C of 0, and this price seems high.

Posted by: tinarina at July 1, 2008 1:43 PM

This place is a BARGAIN. You people are insane.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:47 PM

A four-unit building is a multiple dwelling, it is not a house.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:47 PM

Asking price seems too cheap to me. Unless the house needs major structural and cosmetic work and also the tenants are problems (rc, rs, unevictable for some other reason.) Otherwise the brokers need to explain the discount. 5 story homes have gone for much more.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:50 PM

for that price i could get a nice north slope house and with change!!!

Posted by: armchairwarrior at July 1, 2008 1:51 PM

please clarify, 1:33, what you mean by "I would offer 1.45"

You would offer it if....

1- you somehow earned the additional 1,449,990 you need to make an offer like that

2- you plan on literally offering $1.45, which is about what you can afford

or

3- you're just another douche talking out his ass about properties you cannot not nor ever will be able to come close to affording.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:56 PM

According to Property Shark, the units are rent stabilized, which means that, with patience, they will eventually go up in price. Washington Ave. is very impressive and the prices will go up as people get priced out of Fort Greene but are not ready to venture into Bed Stuy.

I'd say that this will go for 1.8-1.9. Not many people will want to take on the rent stabilized units. That's my guess.

What do you think?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:04 PM

Why the hostility, 1:56? The poster just offered his opinion, regardless of how serious it may be, of the property, which is the whole point of HOTD - to let people look at different properties and offer their opinions about them. It's comments like yours - angry and demeaning - that lower the quality of this site.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:05 PM

I don't know the rent stabilization laws. If this place does have rent controlled/stabilized apartments, can the buyer get them out if they want to change it to a 1, 2, or 3 family? Do the rent laws allow you to change the use of the building?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:06 PM

This building is Rent Stabilized. See link http://www.tenant.net/DHCR/dhcraddr/rent.html

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:09 PM

Sounds like a perfect opportunity for somebody who loves spending lots of time in court.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:10 PM

armchairwarrior is correct. that price will get you a north slope house.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:15 PM

not interested

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:16 PM

Wow, you people sure are greedy and spiteful. Thank goodness for rent stabilization. I wish the renters a sweet long life in this place.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:20 PM

I believe if the owner intends to occupy the rest of the house, then the tenants can be evicted if they are rent stabilized. (recall the LES "mansion" flap going on). But that would be a fight for someone with a strong stomach, deep pockets and a good lawyer.

As for bumping up the RS rate, it's all based on improvements and annual allowable hikes.

This house is a deal if the apts are market rate. Otherwise, maybe not.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:20 PM

Oh I don't know 2.05, 1.56's comments are not very useful. Nobody will ever sell that house for $1.45 or $1.6 even with the rc. It is easily a 2mil house.
...and crime spike??? What a load of bs.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:23 PM

1.29 - reading comprehension

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:25 PM

Given the typical rent increases on rent stabilized units, how long would it be before these hit the magic destabilizing number? 10 years? 15? That's a long time to be losing beaucoup bucks every month.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:26 PM

North Slope house? You obviously haven't walked around CH/FG. Much quiter, a villiage feel with better brownstones and fewer, but better, restaurants also.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:28 PM

Armchairwarrior,
there are a lot of people who don't want to live in park slope even though they can afford it. For many of us it is because we don't want to have neighbors who cannot comprehend that there is any place else in the world worth living in.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:30 PM

1:56 that is the highest amount I would pay for the house being that is what I think it is worth tops right now given that area that it is in. You sound very bitter about something! What could it be?

1- you purchasd at the peak?

2- you are upside down in your mortgage?

3- You are just starting to realize that just becouse you read a Donald Trump book does not make you a real estate guru?

2:06 they can toss out the rent stabilized tennanats if they plan on using the space for personal use but its going to be costly legal fees.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:31 PM

wow with tenants that are rent stablize would even get you a bigger discount.

Posted by: armchairwarrior at July 1, 2008 2:32 PM

2.3 is not going to get you a nice north slope house.

maybe one needing work, or between 4th and 5th or possibly up to 6th avenues.

the north slope houses near the park i've been looking at have been near or over 3 million.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:35 PM

If the place has rent stabilized tenants, the fact should be mentioned in the listing. The brokers explicitly say 'Perfect opportunity to ... convert the entire property to a stately one-family home.'

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:36 PM

An owner can terminate the rent stabilized leases if the house will be converted back to a single family home. This will undoubtedly cost many tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees however. The current seller should take care of this himself and sell the place free and clear, otherwise a substantial price reduction is in order.

Also, the place was likely converted into 6-8 apartments (2 per floor). That is really the only way it could have been subject to rent stabilization as 3- and 4- family buildings are exempt. That means the place is probably not in the best of shape on the inside and those floor plans for the upper floor apartments are probably BS

Posted by: Polemicist at July 1, 2008 2:36 PM

A four-unit building with rent-stabilized tenants is a nightmare.
No one on this site ever seems to have a clue about NYC rent regulation laws. Which makes me think this site is mostly read by suburban high school students.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:40 PM

you could get a beatup place in north slope near 4 or 5 ave for 1.4 and probably have to spend 300k or so to fix up.

this house is way too expensive.

Posted by: armchairwarrior at July 1, 2008 2:41 PM

"Perfect opportunity to convert to single family home" -after spending seven years in housing court!

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:42 PM

Polemicist: the truth is that in housing court all renters are protected. Evicting a tenant in the People's Republic of Brooklyn is complicated and expensive even if they are not rent regulated, If they are rent regulated then I would say it is next to impossible. Everyone here acts like this is Florida. This is Brooklyn, renters rule. Buy a house with an existing tenant at your own risk. Remember if the prior owner could have gotten them out, they would have gotten them out.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:49 PM

"but better, restaurants also"

where? i haven't seen any?

i'd rather have 200 to choose from on 7th and 5th avenue any day.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:52 PM

The website just list buildings that were ever rent control/ stabilized. It still has 92 gates listed even though they have not been rent controlled for two years.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:53 PM

"North Slope house? You obviously haven't walked around CH/FG. Much quiter, a villiage feel with better brownstones and fewer, but better, restaurants also."

A village where the kids from the local projects like to violently attack and rob the newcomers maybe.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:53 PM

This are does nothing for me. I wouldn't mind it for maybe a million bucks, but for 2???

HELLZ TO THE NO!!!

If I'm spending 2 million dollars (in this economy!) I want good schools, good restaurants and bars, good parks and good transportation.

I don't see ANY of those things in this neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:54 PM

"Wow, you people sure are greedy and spiteful. Thank goodness for rent stabilization. I wish the renters a sweet long life in this place."

What's greedy about not wanting to let someone live in your property when the rent they pay does not cover their portion of the upkeep of the building or the utilities they use?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:55 PM

I agree that the North Slope is terrific. It is my favorite area of Brownstone Brooklyn (my girlfriend lives there)...Berkeley Place, President Street, Lincoln Place...doesn't get much better for me.

I'm hoping to move out of my West Village 1 bedroom rental to move in with my gf in the fall. I can't wait.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:58 PM

"the north slope houses near the park i've been looking at have been near or over 3 million."

There really are no north slope houses near the park. North slope is north of Union which runs into the park. I suppose you could be claiming you are only looking at houses on Berkeley and Lincoln between 7th and GAP. I think you are really talking about center slope above 7th ave. where most houses are initially listed at or above $3M, but many are closing a little lower. Moreover, they do not have 5 stories like this one.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:02 PM

SLOPEJACKED again.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:04 PM

"A village where the kids from the local projects like to violently attack and rob the newcomers maybe."

Yup, good friend was just attacked last week on Dekalb. Gang of teens. Knocked him to the ground, kicked him incessantly, knocked all his front teeth out and didn't take his wallet.

Sounds like a lovely village. He's moving to Park Slope this weekend.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:04 PM

That place is worth $3m easily. I might just make an offer today. Should probably bid $3.5 so I'm not in a war. Maybe $4m.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:05 PM

North of Union, is Berkeley Place, Lincoln Place, Sterling, St. John's...

All of those streets have terrific access to transportation as well as the park. I consider that entire area from Union, north to be North Slope.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:09 PM

"SLOPEJACKED again"

The fact that you (or someone) made up a word about a neighborhood shows that perhaps some people would simply rather talk about it than the highlighted home.

Your comment would prove such also.

And no, I don't live anywhere near Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:10 PM

Every home listed on house of the day is RIGHTFULLY compared to other homes in other areas.

Why is it that the second someone mentions Park Slope as comparison (which in this case, I kind of agree...you CAN get a nicer home in a much nicer area for the same price) is it considered hijacking?

We do this in every HOTD. Compare homes in varying neighborhoods. Obviously Park Slope is going to be mentioned on occassion.

You will need to get over it if you plan to continue reading this blog. There are some people who do indeed live in and like Park Slope very much.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:12 PM

"If I'm spending 2 million dollars (in this economy!) I want good schools, good restaurants and bars, good parks and good transportation.

I don't see ANY of those things in this neighborhood."

Gimme a break - this house is 3 blocks from DeKalb restaurant row and 2 blocks from Myrtle Avenue -- between Fort Greene Park and Pratt's campus. Clinton Hill may not be the West Village but open your eyes to what is there.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:19 PM

how long can we be expected to talk about an overpriced home in clinton hill? the conversation is bound to go elsewhere.

i have two friends who have been mugged within a block of this home within the last 2 months. both were pretty horrible crimes and both went nearly ignored by the police.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:23 PM

"Pratt's campus."

You mean the one currently on lock down because of all the muggings?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:26 PM

"SLOPEJACKED again."

Blame armchairwarrior.

It's a lame comparison anyway because the only houses in the slope that are comparable are a few 5 stories on 6th ave that were also carved up into rooming houses.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:29 PM

"Gimme a break - this house is 3 blocks from DeKalb restaurant row and 2 blocks from Myrtle Avenue"

I like Ici a lot and I like Kif Kif. Bonita is ok for a drink, but the food isn't great.

The rest I can take or leave.

I see almost no options for groceries, there are very few services in the immediate area and a block or two east gets pretty bad.

Still not seeing the 2 million dollars, when this can be had in Park Slope for the same amount.

I'm not saying it won't get near the price, I'm just saying that for me, I would not spend this amount for a neighborhood which has been priced as though it's 2020. Clinton Hill is in for a MAJOR correction. Mark my words.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:29 PM

Desperate Slopewives.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:29 PM

also if you go south a bit in prospect heights, the houses along Washington and near it, is still half the price.

Posted by: armchairwarrior at July 1, 2008 3:33 PM

Armchairwarrior,

Why is your grammar so bad?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:37 PM

"It's a lame comparison anyway because the only houses in the slope that are comparable are a few 5 stories on 6th ave that were also carved up into rooming houses."

That's funny cause I live in a 5 story on Berkeley Place. Quite a few of them on our block.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:38 PM

I am in total agreement with you ArmChairWarrior. There is no reason to spend this much for a home in a B location. You'd have to REALLY love Clinton Hill and with all the news about the increased crime and the Flea taking over the neighborhood on Sundays, I'm finding that less and less the case.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:40 PM

I think that Clinton Hill has huge potential. The architecture is tops, the streets are wide and leafy, the commercial streets could have great shops some day.
It will come, in about ten to fifteen years. Crime should diminish as well. Give it time.
seven years in housing court goes by fast.

of course in ten years Brooklyn may be over because all the yuppies will be tech-commuting and flocking to Nova Scotia or the Blue Ridge Mountains -who knows?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:49 PM

As soemone who was involved in a rent stabilization fight (as a tenant - an owner wanted to convert and evict uas all), i will tell you it is long and can be dirty (and expensive). See Rent Stab law Sec 2524.4. Basically, the owner can evict if they plan to use it for owner or owner's immediate family, unless the tenant is senoir citizen or disabled, in which case the owner needs to find a comparable replacement apartment. Trust me, it a pain in the old arse - usualyy it entials a major buyout of sorts.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:52 PM

I had a friend who was beaten on dekalb also his legs were broken and he was knifed by a gang. It was the second time it happened in a week. He said that he had a dog with him to protect him the second time, but they stole the dog.

He warned me not to move to clinton hill or fort greene. He said I should move to park slope. Is that a nice area?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:59 PM

I think it's a great house. I like the layout - parlor upstairs and bedrooms downstairs. I LOVE that garden with the brick wall at the end giving it a great sense of privacy. I'd buy a projector and beam movies off of it during the summer. I agree the parlor's been chopped up, but I like the open feel. Obviously RS tenants are not the best, I'd prefer to be in the Slope, but this is one of the better homes I've seen lately.

Posted by: Brooklynnative at July 1, 2008 4:04 PM

Making fun of the huge increase in muggings in Clinton Hill is not very humane of you, 3:59.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:08 PM

3:59, come on! Are you serious they broke his legs, knifed him, AND stole his dog! Twice in one week? I mean I'm trying not to laugh just in case your serious which I doubt. Hell with it, I'm gonna laugh at that one. They stole his guard dog.

Posted by: Brooklynnative at July 1, 2008 4:12 PM

I love how the anti-Slopers come out saying that (even if they could afford it...hardy har har) that they'd never live there...as if they are in the majority.

I find it adorable.

And I don't want a 2nd home in Tuscany either.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:17 PM

Clinton Hill is not a good comparison to Park Slope because Clinton Hill is for people looking for a quiet area with restaurants and bars tucked away on side streets rather than a more crowded strip arrangement. I agree people probably don't know where they are. Try Vinnie and Ollie on Gates I think it is the best italian in Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:17 PM

Clinton Hill Library Chaos —

Things are not going so well at the Brooklyn Public Library in Clinton Hill. "The last few days, I’ve trekked up there, only to find the lights off, the gate locked and a sad print-out sign saying that the temperature inside had reached 83...and they had closed early. It’s pretty clear to anybody who even walks by the operating budget is pretty meager, and certainly no one likes a sweaty librarian - but at the same time, they’re already open so few hours a week..." Meanwhile, head of the Friends of the Library group is moving back to...Ohio. They needs volunteers to do gardening. And they're going to be having bake sales and things to raise money. [Clinton Hill Blog]

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:18 PM

3:23 "i have two friends who have been mugged within a block of this home within the last 2 months. both were pretty horrible crimes and both went nearly ignored by the police."

Hey folks about 2 weeks ago a young woman was stabbed about 9 times (once in the head) in serene Park Slope (Berkeley and 6th ave.) and of course it was not covered fully by the media. So folks continue to walk around PS oblivious to what's happening out there.

Crime can and will take place anywhere...

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:19 PM

sarcasm

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:20 PM

re: slopejacking - the difference is that no one from any other neighborhood EVER says - "why would I buy here when I could get a (not quite as nice) place for this price in x,y or z (Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, Boerum Hill, Fort Greene, etc etc etc). Because for some reason, people in those neighborhoods understand that there are people who don't WANT to live there, and that they like Clinton Hill better for whatever reason. You never hear Manhattanites saying "why would I buy that two bedroom in the East Village when I could get something now quite as nice on the Upper East Side? BECAUSE some people don't LIKE the UES - some people prefer the east village because it has a very different feel. Everyone in NYC seems to understand this notion of personal preference. Everyone, that is, but the slopers on this blog.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:21 PM

hey 1:56

based on what people are reporting here about crime in Clinton Hill looks like the only BS on this thread is your denial that you live in the ghetto! Clinton Hill is not safe, deal with it! This house is not worth more then 1.6 and next year it will be less

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:22 PM

I got shot down the block and the week after, they stole my brownstone!

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:23 PM

4.22, you're clearly missing the tongue in cheek posts people are making. Keep dreaming. This price is high considering the rent controlled tenants, not for any other reason. It's a great location, which is why there have been so many high priced sales nearby in the past several months.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:31 PM

I live in the Slope and I find the slopejacking on this site annoying.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:31 PM

I'm going to say it just one more time. When you buy a building like this with 4 apartments and rent-regulated tenants, you are not buying a home, you are buying a business. A pretty crappy business to boot, where the owner has all the legal repsonsibility but none of the control.
If you want a home, find one, if you want a business/investment property, buy this building.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:34 PM

What makes me sad is I look at stuff like this and think, great house, someone has had a pretty nice life there for thirty years and whoever buys it for several million dollars more will never have the same.

So... either someone with really bad financial sense will buy this, live on two floors (which they could rent for maybe $2500), and try and evict the tenants who've also managed to have a nice life while paying an absurd mortgage...

Or it will be sold to investors for a condo conversion, and after several years in housing court renovation will commence and the condos won't sell and the investors will turn them into market-rate rentals, which STILL probably won't cover the mortgage.

In this climate I really think there's no win.

Posted by: Heather at July 1, 2008 4:35 PM

4:23, lame, very lame.

Posted by: Brooklynnative at July 1, 2008 4:38 PM

"Hey folks about 2 weeks ago a young woman was stabbed about 9 times (once in the head) in serene Park Slope (Berkeley and 6th ave.) and of course it was not covered fully by the media. So folks continue to walk around PS oblivious to what's happening out there."

It was covered everywhere and the guy who did it was caught.

Unlike the gangs of teens roaming and getting angrier by the day in Clinton Hill.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:39 PM

4:21

The PLG boosters chime in all the time about buyers should look there when they are asking for something affordable in other neighborhoods.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:39 PM

"You never hear Manhattanites saying "why would I buy that two bedroom in the East Village when I could get something now quite as nice on the Upper East Side?"

That's funny...I hear this all the time.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:40 PM

4:21 = person bitter they were priced out of park slope.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:41 PM

"That's funny cause I live in a 5 story on Berkeley Place. Quite a few of them on our block."

Then that's the comparison to make and they are not being sold for 2.3M so Armchairwarrior's comment is idiotic.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:41 PM

People, a plane CRASHED into Park Slope in 1960 - and you call that area safe?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:44 PM

I hope the owner had insurance for the stolen Brownstone but it serves him right for living in Clinton Hill rather than Park Slope.

4.22 must feel the same way. All this crime!

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:47 PM

****

Williamsburg isn't the only Brooklyn nabe with a rash of violent assaults; Brownstoner reports that last Friday Pratt Institute students and faculty received a warning about an increase of violent activity near the Clinton Hill campus, as reported by the 88th Precinct.

The email stated that "the robberies are reported to be committed by a group of black males and females approximately 15-16 years of age. It has been reported that the group runs up to the victim, assaults them by kicking, punching, and scratching; then taking anything of value. These occurrences have happened during various times of the day. All students and Pratt community members are recommended to travel in pairs or groups. If you must travel alone consider using a car service. Avoid traveling late at night." Pratt's community board has a thread on the recent crimes, and one student posted an update:

"The girls (yeah that's right, 15 year old girls) have all been spoken to by the police. The one who mugged my room mate last week will be spending the rest of her summer in counseling and with a sort-of-probation officer on her tail all the time. I know that all 3 of the girls were brought into the precinct, but my room mate and our other friend who was mugged only identified the one."

In less than a month around 26 robberies were reported, a 37% increase from the year prior.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:49 PM

How do you know they sell for more than 2.3 million, 4:41?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:50 PM

4:41- brain washed sloper who has never been to any other neighborhood in brooklyn and probably shops at the co-op.

4:39 - they chime in when they are asked. they don't PLG-jack every thread.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:53 PM

Looks to me like you get a duplex plus the opportunity to make more over a long time IF you are willing to live with people you are fighting with and IF the market doesn't correct. That's a lot of ifs.

As an investment property, 3000/mo rent isn't worth much more than 300k, unless you are confident in your ability to be so obnoxious to your neighbors that they move out quickly.

So, I'd value it as a duplex + an investment property.

$1200 psf in Clinton Hill. When this sells, call the What. It'll be time for all skeptics to drink the koolaid.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:00 PM

"4:39 - they chime in when they are asked"

It's an anonymous blog. No one chimes in when asked. They chime in when they feel like it. This isn't a question and answer session.

Are you new around here?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:09 PM

i'm just curious why someone is considered brainwashed, because they love where they live?

where i come from, they call that lucky.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:10 PM

At this price, it only sells to someone who is planning to evict illegally. Does that make the seller party to the predictable tenant harassment?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:13 PM

Fort Greene restaurants are a joke! Ici is acceptable, Stone Home Wine Bar is sometimes poor, sometimes better than it has to be, and thats it! Period. The rest of the stuff is overpriced garbage. The two grocery stores on Myrtle are pitiful and show you how ghetto the neighborhood really is.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:13 PM

i have lived a half block away for several years and walked around all times of the day and night and never have had any problems. it's quite scary to hear about this violence happening right nearby. does this violence happen as much as people say it does?

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:14 PM

Does anyone have a rational explanation for why this house would be worth more than $600,000?

Any theory at all -- comparative sales, replacement cost, rental value (those are the methods used by appraisers), urban mythology, neighborhood chauvenism, the superiority of brownstones to tulips as residences (although at the peak, someone used a tulip bulb to buy an Amsterdam canal house), the bliss of abandoning a tanking stock market.

Just something that qualifies as an argument with some respect for the normal rules of logic or verifiable fact.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:22 PM

So some Slopers are a little over-eager.

It's not a big deal, really. In person, I don't find them especially pretentious. Quite the opposite, actually. They just seem a little hippy dippy and excited about stuff that not everyone else is excited about.

Good for them. They do take a sometimes unfair beating in the press and on these blogs, so I don't knock them for giving a shout out to their hood from time to time.

Give it a rest with the slopejacking stuff. At least PS doesn't have "the What" representing Clinton Hill in the community spirit department.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:25 PM

By what i read in many of these posts lately it would seem that CH / FG is a warzone!! Does crime happen anywhere else in NYC? By the looks of it all crime has ceased in all of Brooklyn and Manhattan and created some sort of Demonic Hellmouth in Clinton Hill.....HONESTLY IS IT THAT BAD!!! (Or should I say is it that good in another neighborhood..)

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:27 PM

In the duplex...on the lower level, you have to walk thru a bedroom to get to the other bedroom.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:30 PM

and you have go into the public hallway to go downstairs...what if you're a nudist.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:31 PM

"The two grocery stores on Myrtle are pitiful and show you how ghetto the neighborhood really is."

Well I'm a hated Park Sloper, and I don't think one can determine what a neighborhood is like by it's grocery stores.

If that's the case, the Key Food on 7th Avenue is more indicative of a 3rd world country, than an affluent New York City neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:36 PM

5:14 = please see 4:49

This is not made up. There has been a 37% rise in muggings in Clinton Hill compared to last year.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:39 PM

A short 5 minute walk away, the Adephi 5 story went for over 3 million per yesterday's post (above ask). While it is a great location, this place is too expensive due to the rent controlled tenants, otherwise it would be be possible to get around $2MM - if in good shape.

A place south of here on Greene ave went for 2.3MM recently. The comparables are all around, but not for a rent controlled building.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:43 PM

the 'what' doesn't rep Clinton Hill....He doesn't even live there or seem to like it very much, that said....

4:22 - I have lived in ghettos - CH is, by no means, the ghetto and it's more of an unfortunate circumstance than all the ghetto hoodrat nonsence that spews from people who haven't even been to this hood

4:39 - You're very right - the PS stabbing was all over the news for a bit....but anything going on in the FG / CH area seems to be either left out in the cold or demonized......I wonder why??????

On a side note, I think that place isn't too bad for 2.5 Mil - I've seen smaller places go for twice as much....

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:46 PM

5:36 the point is there is nothing else. There are a few bodegas that sell produce and the new Greene Grape expansion (which is a joke). While grocery stores don't determine the quality of a neighborhood they do play a factor in the quality of life for those living in the area.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:55 PM

You are comparing Adelphi to Washington Avenue???

Those are not similar streets or even neighborhoods.

That's like comparing housing prices on Prospect Park West to those on 4th Avenue.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 5:55 PM

The good thing is that when crimes in Park Slope are committed the police respond as if their life depends on it and in Clinton Hill the police don't give two rats asses.

Something should be done re: the 88th precinct. My friend who was mugged on the corner of Dekalb and Washington was completely dismissed by the police, whereas another friend who was mugged in Park Slope not long ago was treated as if it were a murder.

It's a problem and I don't know who in Clinton Hill should take the lead...

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 6:00 PM

"I had a friend who was beaten on dekalb also his legs were broken and he was knifed by a gang. It was the second time it happened in a week. He said that he had a dog with him to protect him the second time, but they stole the dog."

You are a total liar.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 6:03 PM

I hear that the guy who had his brownstone stolen bought it on his American Express Black card so it was insured for full replaced in case of loss, theft or damage.

No, Folks, but on a serious note, muggings are up in PS and there are a lot of them. I chalk it up to “easy pickins”.

Thanks to the Carlton Avenue Bridge being closed and now demolished, I'm now taking the 6th Avenue Bridge from South Portland in FG to get to PS. When I go home later after dark, I have to say the long walk on 6th is creepy. I have seen mugging maps that show lots of them along that corridor. Luckily I’m not creeped out easily.

The comments on this thread are racist. No one is talking about the budget cuts and the lack of summer jobs for teenagers this year. The jobs have dried up and the City is pulling the funds for crucial social services.

If anything, someone with enough dough for whom a donation tax write off of 3m makes sense should buy this house and set up a youth center. Daycare downstairs, an after school program during the school year and a youth center through the summer when the kids have few outlets. I’m being facetious since it probably cannot be done in this particular building…but it would be nice to see some benefactors walking around considering we’re in a new age of robber barons. What? Now, they should only give to the Met and Lincoln Center?

We've been talking about the rent vs. buy ratios, multiples of rent, etc. for a day or so on the blog. In that vein, think about what it's like to be a teen with no money and no opportunities watching a stream of privileged people trotting by day-in-day out. The privileged have incomes in multiples of 5, 10 and 20 of the poor people they pass on the streets.

The reasons we got Social Security, and much later, Medicare, are partly because the US had many seniors living in miserable poverty. That poverty has not gone away, it lessened for a time but seems to be back upon us as the cost of living goes through the roof. If you're reading this thread, it is unlikely you can understand what it is to live with nothing more than $170 per month. There are seniors out there with that much struggling, living with relatives. Many only have $700 decreased by 1/3 for the rent (if they're lucky enough to be in some form of subsidized housing--and owners be they for- or not-for-profit often end up getting a huge actual rent, the difference being made up for by the City BTW). We hear about people living on a dollar or two dollars a day in the so-called third world. Well, my gentle readers, we have it here in the US as well.

There are many people living with so little they cannot afford food, a subway or bus ride, clothes. (One insult to the poor: the $2 metrocard for one ride does not allow transfers! You need a multi-use card to be able to transfer from the bus to train or vice versa.)

The very poor seniors I’ve talked about are elders in the community of these poor teens. Let’s have some perspective. It's truly a shame there has been so much ignorance, fear and loathing on the blog. Really a shame.

If the privileged realized how much the benefit from the system the way it is, if they even had some sense of noblesse oblige, they would work to improve the communities they live in, not think that their only interaction can be assault on the street, that their only commitment should be to their own little “lifestyle”.

Start the dialogue, get in touch with your community. I know it can be hard to play down privilege. There are ways to be appreciated and make a difference. I don’t claim to be an expert on how to do it. First, you have to get over the racism and get a little compassion.

BTW, no one has mentioned that many celebs of color were once buying the large homes on Washington and Clinton. Many of them are socially active and give back.

Does anyone know what's going on with the celebs? Have they mostly sold and moved to the UES like Spike?

FGG

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 6:24 PM

acouple of things:
most cops are pretty racist and when they see a white person beat up in a black neighborhood they more or less feel they were asking for it, that is why they don't do much about muggings in FG/CH.

If you buy this building you should not live there because you will need to declare war on the renters and they will hurt you and your family if they have the opportunity. No veteran NY developer would ever put his family in jeopardy by moving into a building with old rent regulated tenants.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 7:05 PM

can you imagine if a gang of clinton hill teens attacked someone in carroll gardens?
Mama Mia!
All that would be left would be baseball caps and a couple of unlaced sneakers.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 7:30 PM

i wish brownstoner would have a feature, where everyone puts in a price for a house. the person closet when it sells would be declare a winner!!

that would be a cool feature to have.

Posted by: armchairwarrior at July 1, 2008 7:54 PM

this was a rather nice thread for a change.

and i didn't find it racist at all FGG.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 8:08 PM

Just a little something for the What, since he's always claiming that NO ONE is getting loans...

UPPER WEST SIDE—Extell's Riverside South development just keeps on growing! Already home to the Avery and the Rushmore, Riverside South will soon be graced with two new towers on West 62nd Street and West 63rd Street. The announcement came in a press release regarding Extell's securing of a $613 million construction loan for the project, the largest construction loan in the U.S. this year (what credit crunch?). There will be a 38-story condo/rental tower, and a 23-story rental building. Completion is expected in 2010. It had been previously reported that the condo one would be called The Aldyn.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 8:12 PM

bad grammar cause i never learn it.

Posted by: armchairwarrior at July 1, 2008 8:36 PM

$2.3 million for a 4-family house with rent-stabilized apartments in CLINTON HILL??? Really??? This must be a mistake, or a joke.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 10:04 PM

Didn't everyone go nuts last week on the person who mentioned the two Berkeley Place houses which sold last month for 1.1 million and 900k with rent stabilized tenants?

That location is super prime and look what those places sold for. If they don't show you how asinine this price is, I don't know what does...

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 10:09 PM

This thread is cracking me up, in a very sad way.

I picture the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil monkey as I read many of these posts - anonymous commentators, who have probably never set foot in Clinton Hill, ignoring comparables. As 5:43 points out, a four story brownstone south of here on Greene Ave went for 2.3MM recently, among others. Why is that so hard to comprehend? Real estate values are personal and relative. If someone likes the house, they will pay whatever they can afford to buy it, and it would appear that for the last few YEARS, people have been putting some pretty high prices on Clinton Hill property.

My favorite is the person asking for a "rational" explanation of why the house is not worth more than $600,000 (5:22 pm). Um, because as mentioned above, comparable houses are selling for TWO MILLION!! (of course RS should cause a discount, but how can anonymous commentators have any sense of what that discount should be, without knowning the circumstances of the renters?)

I actually think I might break a long standing habit and stop reading this blog. My time is worth more than this.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 11:30 PM

hey douchebags! the daily news and others ran reports that crime is actually down in north brooklyn neighborhoods like bed-stuy, bushwick, etc. it's the bourgie, gentrified areas or those which are on the cusp of becoming "civilized" where the crimes are occurring, because that's where the kids can easily tax whitey and steal their sh$t. so if ya can't stand the heat, get the f*ck out the kitchen and stop ya b*tchin!!

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 11:37 PM

"As 5:43 points out, a four story brownstone south of here on Greene Ave went for 2.3MM recently, among others. Why is that so hard to comprehend?"

BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE 3 RENT STABILIZED TENANTS!!!!!!!

for that headache, take 1 million off this pricetag.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 11:39 PM

"The comments on this thread are racist. No one is talking about the budget cuts and the lack of summer jobs for teenagers this year. The jobs have dried up and the City is pulling the funds for crucial social services."

There is nothing racist about stating that the fact that a group of black teens is committing these crimes.

There is something racist about assuming that the victims are white and "privileged".

You don't know a damn thing about the victims. You assume someone gave them a summer job when they were teens and somehow that lead them to having enough money 20 years late to buy a brownstone.

There are plenty of teens who find something better to do with there time than commit violent crime. Your excusing this behavior is the most racist idiocy I've read on this blog in a while. I hope someone knocks your front teeth out so you can see how easy it is to "start the dialogue" with these kids.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 11:48 PM

Also 11:37pm,

Townhouse prices in Clinton Hill (as well as everywhere else in Brooklyn and Manhattan) have nearly trippled in the last five or six years.

If you don't realize this house of cards is about to fall, you're just another dulusional chump who doesn't understand jack about real estate.

PRICES WILL FALL ATLEAST 50% IN THE NEXT YEAR OR TWO.

COMPARABLES DON'T MEAN ANYTHING AT THE TOP OF THE BIGGEST REAL ESTATE BUBBLE OF ALL TIME!

-- no relation whatsoever to the What

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 11:49 PM

7:05- you must have been the nightmare landlord who would do things like cut off heat and hot water to your tenants, crank your music up loud at 4 in the morning and threaten to gut your tenant like a fish. renters won't be happy but puh-leeze! far fewer landlords have been hurt in tenant/landlord conflicts than tenants. Oh...maybe you were the guy who killed that tenant couple about 10 years ago. they were never found.

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 12:10 AM

11:49, I agree with you. The comparables make no sense because they are insane. I get that a lot of people have traded up in the last decade and have tons of house equity. I get that interest rates are low. I get that even though the fed tries to ignore it, we're in a pretty inflationary period and the rise in housing costs -- and prices -- is part of that.

But the current market is so not sustainable. For one thing, when interest rates do rise -- and they will have to -- mortgages will also become much more expensive.

Clinton Hill's a great neighborhood. I never paid attention to it before I moved here, but I love it a thousand times more than Park Slope (which actually is a bad comparison to Clinton Hill anyways since it's about ten times the size and has about ten times the housing inventory, therefore the same laws of demand and supply have a different ratio)... and I am extremely bullish on Clinton Hill's future, because, frankly, if a neighborhood like DUMBO that has no redeeming features except a view can make it, a neighborhood with beautiful houses seems like a no-brainer -- BUT, the current market doesn't make sense here anymore than it makes sense in East New York.

What worries me more and more is this run-up on real estate will end up actually destroying more than it preserves. The people who MADE these neighborhoods nice places are all leaving them. Look at Italian Williamsburg, which I know a great deal better than Clinton Hill. Look at the increases in crime there. Look at blocks that are being gutted to build crappy condos that aren't even selling. Look at the neighborhood stores, those precious local businesses that every good Brooklyner yammers on about supporting. Look at them and then wave good-bye, because they're moving out and the new commercial lease starts at $10K/month.

Look at Park Slope, for that matter. Look at its vast array of muffin stores, opticians and banks. Look at its one good restaurant ah di something whatever and enjoy it what you can.

I really think we're in Rome and Nero's standing right over there on Atlantic tuning up his fiddle.

(Also, I probably shouldn't drink coffee this late at night.)

Posted by: Heather at July 2, 2008 12:37 AM

In 2 years this will be worth 100 million. Haven't you heard, Brooklyn is really booming with all these easy loans.

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 12:38 AM

"The people who MADE these neighborhoods nice places"

What a wheeze. Now thats some serious tongue-in-cheek.

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 8:39 AM

This "privileged" crap is getting as overused and worn as the knee-jerk auto-accusations of racism.

It also compounds the nonsense that you can't change your station in life, its determined at birth, and that you might as well give up.

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 8:44 AM

We narrowed our choice of demo contractors to two, Paul and Bill, and we asked our architect Ole to sit in on the second round of interviews. He was in the process of finalizing the demo plan. The demo plan details everything that is to be removed from the space, and it has to be filed with the city before We narrowed our choice of demo contractors to two, Paul and Bill, and we asked our architect Ole to sit in on the second round of interviews. He was in the process of finalizing the demo plan. The demo plan details everything that is to be removed from the space, and it has to be filed with the city before a permit can be issued. Since the plans weren’t yet complete, the contractors originally bid on the job just by seeing the space. In order to compare each bid, I needed to review each contractor’s sWe narrowed our choice of demo contractors to two, Paul and Bill, and we asked our architect Ole to sit in on the second round of interviews. He was in the process of finalizing the demo plan. The demo plan details everything that is to be removed from the space, and it has to be filed with the city before a permit can be issued. Since the plans weren’t yet complete, the contractors originally bid on the job just by seeing the space. In order to compare each bid, I needed to review each contractor’s scope of work. Did they both include ripping up the tile floors in the back half of the store? Did both bids include taking down the dropped ceiling and the upper ceiling? Did both bids cover insurance, removal fees and container costs?

Even more interesting to compare, was how each contractor planned to handle the waste itself. Paul was planning to collect all the waste in one dumpster and then let the hauler (hopefully) sort out the recyclables, whereas Bill had an extensive list of recycling/salvage contacts including a metal recycler in nearby Greenpoint and Build it Green in Astoria, where he was planning to take any reusable/recyclable materials. I just kept asking myself, does a landfill really need two perfectly good wooden doors, handles and hinges included? How about three electric bathroom fans? 10 built-in speakers? An old Amana washing machine? Three toilets? Three sinks? Faucets? Light fixtures. . . . . ? We narrowed our choice of demo contractors to two, Paul and Bill, and we asked our architect Ole to sit in on the second round of interviews. He was in the process of finalizing the demo plan. The demo plan details everything that is to be removed from the space, and it has to be filed with the city before a permit can be issued. Since the plans weren’t yet complete, the contractors originally bid on the job just by seeing the space. In order to compare each bid, I needed to review each contractor’s scope of work. Did they both include ripping up the tile floors in the back half of the store? Did both bids include taking down the dropped ceiling and the upper ceiling? Did both bids cover insurance, removal fees and container costs?

Even more interesting to compare, was how each contractor planned to handle the waste itself. Paul was planning to collect all the waste in one dumpster and then let the hauler (hopefully) sort out the recyclables, whereas Bill had an extensive list of recycling/salvage contacts including a metal recycler in nearby Greenpoint and Build it Green in Astoria, where he was planning to take any reusable/recyclable materials. I just kept asking myself, does a landfill really need two perfectly good wooden doors, handles and hinges included? How about three electric bathroom fans? 10 built-in speakers? An old Amana washing machine? Three toilets? Three sinks? Faucets? Light fixtures. . . . . ? cope of work. Did they both include ripping up the tile floors in the back half of the store? Did both bids include taking down the dropped ceiling and the upper ceiling? Did both bids cover insurance, removal fees and container costs?

Even more interesting to compare, was how each contractor planned to handle the waste itself. Paul was planning to collect all the waste in one dumpster and then let the hauler (hopefully) sort out the recyclables, whereas Bill had an extensive list of recycling/salvage contacts including a metal recycler in nearby Greenpoint and Build it Green in Astoria, where he was planning to take any reusable/recyclable materials. I just kept asking myself, does a landfill really need two perfectly good wooden doors, handles and hinges included? How about three electric bathroom fans? 10 built-in speakers? An old Amana washing machine? Three toilets? Three sinks? Faucets? Light fixtures. . . . . ? We narrowed our choice of demo contractors to two, Paul and Bill, and we asked our architect Ole to sit in on the second round of interviews. He was in the process of finalizing the demo plan. The demo plan details everything that is to be removed from the space, and it has to be filed with the city before a permit can be issued. Since the plans weren’t yet complete, the contractors originally bid on the job just by seeing the space. In order to compare each bid, I needed to review each contractor’s scope of work. Did they both include ripping up the tile floors in the back half of the store? Did both bids include taking down the dropped ceiling and the upper ceiling? Did both bids cover insurance, removal fees and container costs?

Even more interesting to compare, was how each contractor planned to handle the waste itself. Paul was planning to collect all the waste in one dumpster and then let the hauler (hopefully) sort out the recyclables, whereas Bill had an extensive list of recycling/salvage contacts including a metal recycler in nearby Greenpoint and Build it Green in Astoria, where he was planning to take any reusable/recyclable materials. I just kept asking myself, does a landfill really need two perfectly good wooden doors, handles and hinges included? How about three electric bathroom fans? 10 built-in speakers? An old Amana washing machine? Three toilets? Three sinks? Faucets? Light fixtures. . . . . ? We narrowed our choice of demo contractors to two, Paul and Bill, and we asked our architect Ole to sit in on the second round of interviews. He was in the process of finalizing the demo plan. The demo plan details everything that is to be removed from the space, and it has to be filed with the city before a permit can be issued. Since the plans weren’t yet complete, the contractors originally bid on the job just by seeing the space. In order to compare each bid, I needed to review each contractor’s sWe narrowed our choice of demo contractors to two, Paul and Bill, and we asked our architect Ole to sit in on the second round of interviews. He was in the process of finalizing the demo plan. The demo plan details everything that is to be removed from the space, and it has to be filed with the city before a permit can be issued. Since the plans weren’t yet complete, the contractors originally bid on the job just by seeing the space. In order to compare each bid, I needed to review each contractor’s scope of work. Did they both include ripping up the tile floors in the back half of the store? Did both bids include taking down the dropped ceiling and the upper ceiling? Did both bids cover insurance, removal fees and container costs?

Even more interesting to compare, was how each contractor planned to handle the waste itself. Paul was planning to collect all the waste in one dumpster and then let the hauler (hopefully) sort out the recyclables, whereas Bill had an extensive list of recycling/salvage contacts including a metal recycler in nearby Greenpoint and Build it Green in Astoria, where he was planning to take any reusable/recyclable materials. I just kept asking myself, does a landfill really need two perfectly good wooden doors, handles and hinges included? How about three electric bathroom fans? 10 built-in speakers? An old Amana washing machine? Three toilets? Three sinks? Faucets? Light fixtures. . . . . ? We narrowed our choice of demo contractors to two, Paul and Bill, and we asked our architect Ole to sit in on the second round of interviews. He was in the process of finalizing the demo plan. The demo plan details everything that is to be removed from the space, and it has to be filed with the city before a permit can be issued. Since the plans weren’t yet complete, the contractors originally bid on the job just by seeing the space. In order to compare each bid, I needed to review each contractor’s scope of work. Did they both include ripping up the tile floors in the back half of the store? Did both bids include taking down the dropped ceiling and the upper ceiling? Did both bids cover insurance, removal fees and container costs?

Even more interesting to compare, was how each contractor planned to handle the waste itself. Paul was planning to collect all the waste in one dumpster and then let the hauler (hopefully) sort out the recyclables, whereas Bill had an extensive list of recycling/salvage contacts including a metal recycler in nearby Greenpoint and Build it Green in Astoria, where he was planning to take any reusable/recyclable materials. I just kept asking myself, does a landfill really need

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 8:55 AM

US actually has rather low rates of income mobility, by the standards of the rich countries, combined with one of the highest levels of inequality (which makes being at the bottom, or even the bottom of the top, far more painful).

And for the last generation, incomes in the middle half have been completely flat, which means that on average people are doing no better than their parents. Worse, in general, given the run-up in housing prices.

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 9:26 AM

Comparables are one element of a rational price explanation, if they are comparable. Of course, in a bubble market, the comps themselves tend to be somewhat irrational.
The new economy generates a small number of people--disproportionately in NYC--who very quickly get very large amounts of money, and there will always be some who equally quickly waste it.

But surely supply and demand haven't been completely repealed.

At $2.3m for buildings occupied by rent stabilized tenants, supply should be effectively infinite. If there aren't enough in the nineteenth century parts of the city, I'd be happy to build more. With a budget of $1000 psf for the owner occupied part, it shouldn't be difficult to fake a few pocket doors and dark interior rooms, or to find grumpy old people willing to rent large apts for 1/2 market rates on condition that they give the landlord reasons to feel sorry for himself.

And one would have thought that demand would be limited: how many B&D fans with multi-million dollar entertainment budgets are there, even in NY??

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 9:40 AM

9.26 - and what is your point? Low mobility means that people aren't moving. Doesn't mean they can't if they are fed (and believe) the crap.

I come from a place where you absolutely cannot move. Look at the mobility of those who have just come here, not the inertia of those beleiving the bull. The opportunities here are great, and are discarded and ignored by the masses.

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 9:47 AM

The statistics just show that for everyone who succeeds in moving up, someone else moves down. So however many opportunities there are for individuals to move up, there also will be lots of bitter people who didn't, or worse. Just look at most of the defenders of the bubble on this site... they think that any contrary viewpoint might take away their lottery ticket, and they are pissed.

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 10:00 AM

If it's a 4-family it ain't rent stabilized. Stabilization is for over 5 family buildings. Could be they haven't raised the rent 'cause they didn't need to (same owners for decades? probably no mortgage, they paid what, $20k for it?)

One across the street sold for $2M last year, the new owner is still renovating it.

$2M will get you a nice 16-footer in the north Slope. Why don't all you slopies just buy one of those tiny houses over there and quit making inane comments about CH/FG? Oh, right, you can't afford the Slope....BITTER RENTERS!

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 10:10 AM

"So however many opportunities there are for individuals to move up, there also will be lots of bitter people who didn't, or worse."

That doesn't give them the right to physically attack their neighbors and take their stuff. These lazy ass teens aren't beating and robbing people because they can't move up above their loser section 8 drug addicted parents. They're only teenagers. They haven't even tried to move up in the world yet. They are choosing to commit these crimes because THEY are the ones who are racist. They can't accept that the whites who have moved into these houses worked hard to get the money to buy them.

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 10:50 AM

""I had a friend who was beaten on dekalb also his legs were broken and he was knifed by a gang. It was the second time it happened in a week. He said that he had a dog with him to protect him the second time, but they stole the dog."

You are a total liar."

OMG it was a joke, I live in Clinton Hill. I walk around at all times of night because the area is so beautiful at night. The more beautiful buildings are actually lit (don't know who pays for this) and many still have gas burning lamps in the front garden. I was being sarcastic because everyone was being so over the top about crime.

... I will be more careful about what I say if comments so obviously sarcastic can be read literally. It goes to show people don't really know FG/CH. I'm amazed!

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 11:40 AM

$2.3 million for a 4-family house with rent-stabilized apartments in CLINTON HILL??? Really??? This must be a mistake, or a joke.

No mistake. You are just out of touch with the area, what is really going on there and what prices are doing. This house on comps is ok value.

People seem to think that bad mouthing Clinton Hill on this site will bring down prices... but it wont. If you want to bring down prices convince someone to sell something to you cheap! If you can do that then all comps might start to fall. I'm always ready to buy cheap but I'm not finding much.

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 11:53 AM

A reader forwarded a couple of Park Slope emails to us dealing with issues of crime and graffiti. The first email says that burglaries have increased recently in Park Slope (there a community meeting tonight at 7:30 at the 78th Precinct at Bergen and Flatbush) and that there have been about 12 break ins in a ten-block radius in the last several months.

Posted by: guest at July 2, 2008 12:24 PM

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