« Inside Third & Bond: Week 45 House of the Day: 228 Washington Avenue »

July 17, 2008

Condo of the Day: 505 Court Street

We've always been a little surprised at what a tough time 505 Court Street in Carroll Gardens has had in the market. Despite being the highest-profile loft conversion in a hot neighborhood, the building had a tough time moving units when it went condo back in 2005; a year later, in the summer of 2006, the building zigged to rentals before zagging back to condos that fall. Streeteasy shows ten units currently for sale, including this top-floor duplex asking $679,000, down from $715,000. Have some of the problems that initially caused problems been dealt with? Any current residents care to chime in about their experience in the building?
505 Court Street [Corcoranl] GMAP P*Shark

Trackback Pings

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/5539

Comments

Duplex. Hmmmm...

Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at July 17, 2008 12:45 PM

"VAULTED TWENTY-FOOT CEILINGS"
"ceiling heights of over 18 feet in some places"

I love broker-speak...what's the next entry going to be, "just walk outside and the sky's the limit!"

Posted by: Biff Champion at July 17, 2008 12:48 PM

i have friends who used to rent in this building just before they went condo. they were on the 9th floor facing the elevated BQE and the noise from that was horrendous especially in the wee hours (speeding 18-wheel truck air brakes slowing down for hamilton avenue exit) on the other side of the building of course the elevated F train which is also quite loud. They changed out the windows to be insulated but doesnt do much to muffle certain noises. There are no other tall buildings in the area to help absorb sound. it's much quieter down on the street.

Posted by: bowl of dicks at July 17, 2008 12:59 PM

Terrible location. Mystery solved.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at July 17, 2008 1:04 PM

Yes, they look nice. But: Maint/cc at $755 + $398 per month in taxes is a high monthly nut for a condo. Sounds like co-op. And as others have noted, this bldg. has the BQE to the west and the elevated F to the east. I can imagine it's very, very noisy.

Posted by: Fjorder at July 17, 2008 1:05 PM

So it's $5K a month for a 1-bedroom? (According to the mortgage calculator.)

They could do a better job of actually showing the vaulted ceiling in the pictures, that might help... I'm not sure the floorplan corresponds to those photos at all?

Posted by: Heather at July 17, 2008 1:07 PM

Looked at this place back in January. A couple of problems:
1) to the west & south, the BQE is loud.
2) to the south & east, a depressing view of the lowe's hardware parking lot.
3) no w/d connections
4) huge maint/cc
5) the walk to the 9th St F train over the Gowanus is not so nice - you don't really feel like you're in Carroll Gardens. The corcoran people said a lot of residents just do the extra walk to the Carroll St station.

But on the plus side, the interiors are lovely. The high ceilings are great. And if you can look past the BQE, a 9th or 10th floor west face is a decent view.

Posted by: happierman at July 17, 2008 1:14 PM

The biggest problem is the high common charges.

Posted by: Emigre at July 17, 2008 1:23 PM

I've heard the area has a lot of problems with pollution because of the facilities by the BQE, as well as the car pollution. I don't know how real or how much impact there actually is, but awhile ago it was all over the news when the nearby firehouse got shut down because of suspected toxins. and the house had to be professionally cleaned. Firefighters reported lots of health issues and elevated rates of cancer and other illnesses. I know they were investigating but again, i don't know what the outcome was or if this is even a factor in why units aren't selling. But 5000k for a 1 bedroom sounds daunting, then there's maintenance. I'd love to see the vaulted ceiling but the kitchen looks small to me.

Posted by: bxgrl at July 17, 2008 1:23 PM

My wife and I toured some of the apartments a few weeks ago. They were fairly large (the ceilings really are extremely high), and maintained a nice, simple quasi-industrial feel. The views from the upper-floor apartments, espcially the one that looks out onto Manhattan, were stunning. The first-floor apartments were huge for the price, but the view into and out of them is is kind of awkward. If we had the money we would definitely think about buying there, but alas, the $1000+ maintenance puts us out of the running.

Living in the neighborhood, I would say this isn't a terrible location. You have your choice of two F stations, it's a few blocks from Frankie's, and there's a nice new wine store across the street.

As for noise, well, even my tiny block in CG gets a lot.

Posted by: NsPx at July 17, 2008 1:23 PM

This place has a long and troubled history. They tried to sell as coops in 1982 and could never sell enough for the plan to become effective so it went rental for 20 years. Then they tried to remodel and sell rental units as condos as they became available.

Posted by: BH76 at July 17, 2008 1:25 PM

Quoting Brownstoner "We've always been a little surprised at what a tough time 505 Court Street in Carroll Gardens has had in the market"

I can only surmise that your 'surprise' is due to the fact you've never visited this area. As 'Bowl of Dicks', SnarkSlope, Fjorder and HappierMan and now I, state this area is 'dreadful'.

It might only be four blocks from the CG Place streets but those four blocks may as well be four miles - it is just that different. And given the BQE, the Elevated F&G lines as well as the industrial areas around the southern end of Smith St, Hamilton Ave and so on I can't see it getting better any time soon.

In this market you'd need your head examined to be buying in borderline neighborhoods.

Posted by: 99luftballons at July 17, 2008 1:28 PM

It was always the maintenance that kept us from looking at them- when you included that maintenance and tax and compared the total cost of owning to many of the other condos that were on the market- these were way higher for the same square footage, with no obvious upside from other conversions or new construction.

The asking price for these were usually around the same as other buildings for similar square footage, but at that time, lot of other buildings were offering abatements that brought carrying charges in at next to nothing- so it was like a $700 difference per month in charges! I would imagine they lost a lot of buyers to other buildings for that reason.

Posted by: Park Place at July 17, 2008 1:29 PM

My office is quite nearby and about the same distance from the BQE.

The noise is bad, sure. But i guess people get used to the noise. Fine.

The real problem is the dust. It's pretty horrific. I hardly ever keep my windows open and it just never ends.
My car can't survive one day--not one day--after a car-wash without looking filthy. And god knows what's in that dust.

Additionally, 9th street is a backdoor route to the BQE/battery tunnel entrance, and now that the Hamilton bridge is under neverending construction, it's packed all day.

This is not a good location.

Posted by: manofelt at July 17, 2008 1:31 PM

I live in the building, moved in just over a year ago. I love my apt, on a high floor, great views, 8 foot windows, 12 foot ceilings, great lobby staff/porters/super. No neighbor noise at all due to thick concrete floors and I have no common walls with anyone.

I can see how people who expect new construction quality would be turned off, and a lot of the apartments we looked at either had strange floor plans or had obvious defects in workmanship and presentation that would turn people away. I was willing to overlook some of these workmanship flaws and think I got one of the better apartments in the building for the square-footage I wanted. (I will be replacing floors and cleaning up cosmetic issues at some point). No in-suite bath, no central air, no sub-zero fridge. I don't need those.

I do not face the BQE which is not right across the street as some may think, so I do not hear it. I do hear the F train with my windows open. With windows closed, you can ever-so-slightly hear it if you have no radio or TV on and you're trying to hear it. So would anyone living south of 4th place. It's just background noise now, especially if I open windows slightly or in rooms I am not occupying. I sleep with windows open in other rooms and it's not an issue at all.

This is a city, so if it's not the F train, it's a bus stop, or a highway, or a Fire House or a quiet tree lined block that becomes a shortcut to the highway for 3 hours during rush hour, or you're paying an extra $150/sqft for that perfect perfect apartment.

I know this building is a favorite punching bag for curbed and

Posted by: CGj at July 17, 2008 1:33 PM

NsPx, I believe the ceilings are high; I just think, like Heather, they should have been shown in the pics.

Posted by: Biff Champion at July 17, 2008 1:35 PM

comments got cut off, but I think you get the picture from my perspective...

Posted by: CGj at July 17, 2008 1:41 PM

We looked a several 3 BRs in March - drawn in by the amount of space for the money. but on top of the high maintenance and the questionable noise/views is the fact that the renovations are lousy. the kitchens are tiny, bathrooms nothing special, the floors are cheap. the building reminded me of bad conversions from the late '80s. (dating myself, i know)

Posted by: herenow at July 17, 2008 1:41 PM

I think this is not a bad place for a family who wants to be in a Blue chip Nabe. I mean of course things in the building will not be perfect but what building is? Buy a House and tell me it's perfect.

Posted by: sebb at July 17, 2008 1:45 PM

well, i was looking for a condo when this came in to the market, and i rejected it for having a ridiculous psf price combined with the carrying costs for both what it was and because the hood is less than prime.

you can do much much better in williamsburg. this part of carroll gardens is not great.

Posted by: wine lover at July 17, 2008 1:47 PM

High carrying costs, shitty location... That's an easy one to figure out why they are not selling.

Posted by: Xander Crews at July 17, 2008 2:09 PM

Carroll Gardens? I always thought this area was Red Hook. Oh well.

Posted by: DOW8000SP800 at July 17, 2008 2:11 PM

We moved to the building over a year ago for room for a child. The courtyard is a terrific asset for kids and the interiors are large compared to brownstones. It was also for the schools. Maintenance & taxes may be high but nothing compared to private education if you are in a bad district or suburban taxes if you leave the city. You have to look at the big picture and add it up for your situation. Schools and a nice neighborhood were the biggest selling point. Short commute etc. Lots of kids, nice people.
The sponsor is useless. Don't expect any favors. Completely incompetent. The interiors are fair but they are fine. I don't need a "luxury" unit. As for noise, we used to live on an avenue in Manhattan and this is no dirtier or louder. Windows are decent except are difficult to clean because of their size. I like the neighborhood; an industrial edge but has character. I wouldn't mind if they bury the BQE by 2020 as planned.

Posted by: route 10 at July 17, 2008 2:17 PM

I also wouldn't call this stretch of Court shitty. I think it is the high maintenance, the noise and dirt (varies depending on particular apartment), the cheapness of the reno. I was in one apartment in this building for a party (window looking out on Court, low floor) and I it was much nicer looking than I expected, since I read all those Curbed threads. Down toward Hamilton and by Smith/9th stop isn't exactly picturesque, though.

Posted by: Carol Gardens at July 17, 2008 2:22 PM

hi all
Yea, people love to beatup on this building. My wife and I moved in 2 years ago. Of course the building is not perfect, but it's not as bad as people on curbed or brownstoner like to say it is. Here are my observations:

1. That part of Court St. is not nice as it is further north. But it's still not bad and improving.

2. With the windows open, I can hear the F/G trains but never the BQE (I face north on the 3rd floor). WIth windows closed, we hear nothing.

3. The concrete floors makes it so you don't hear your upstairs neighbors as much as other buildings, but cell phones also don't work for us that well.

4. No real bug/rodent problems as there may have been while rentals. Every apartment gets free exterminator services every month if you want it.

5. Back courtyard is really nice and beautiful.

6. Apt have squeeky floors, but other than that we are very happy with the interior, the new appliances, high ceilings and big windows.

7. For the price we paid and what was available at that time in Manhattan, we feel like we got a really good deal. To those who complain, if you can't afford to live there, then nothing is going to be a deal for you and that can't be helped. If you shop around, you'll find that the prices in the building are actually pretty reasonable, considering that it's NYC.

8. If you're an older-timer in the hood, or were a previous renter who was kicked out, I feel for you and am sorry. But...that's NYC. It's changing all the time. Developers are greedy, but at the same time, NYC was founded as a city for making money.

9. I don't think you could do better in Williamsburg. Are you

Posted by: jerryfarina at July 17, 2008 2:23 PM

The "bury the BQE" idea is a notion, not a plan, as of now. And the part of the BQE they are talking about (starting at Atlantic parallel to Hicks) won't help this building.

Posted by: Carol Gardens at July 17, 2008 2:27 PM

issue is the location

Posted by: chrishavens at July 17, 2008 2:35 PM

Carol Gardens is often misinformed. Just for the record, there are many articles and studies about burying the BQE through Sunset Park to the tunnel entrance. Here is but one link:

http://gothamist.com/2006/05/04/gowanus_express.php

The DOT has a huge document studying all of the alternatives.

As far as I know north of the tunnel is an afterthought, especially as it enters Brooklyn Heights where the neighborhood proposed it as opposed to the DOT.

Posted by: route 10 at July 17, 2008 3:15 PM

route 10 - What do you mean by "bury the BQE by 2020 as planned"? Where did you about this? any links?

Posted by: troll at July 17, 2008 3:31 PM

You're right that I didn't know about the more extravagant plan that you reference. I was thinking about this plan as covered by Brownstoner:

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2007/04/housing_over_th.php

Here is an article from 1996 on what you are talking about. I still say it is a fantasy:

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/ny_local/1996/08/21/1996-08-21_a_tunnel_to_bury_gowanus_ill.html

An update and another proposal:

http://gothamist.com/2008/01/06/new_plan_for_ge.php#comments

Posted by: Carol Gardens at July 17, 2008 3:56 PM

I guess we don't have live links anymore?

Posted by: Carol Gardens at July 17, 2008 3:58 PM

Another link about history of Gowanus Expressway and sinking the thing:

http://www.nycroads.com/roads/gowanus/

This is from the NYS DOT - all of the options

https://www.nysdot.gov/portal/page/portal/regional-offices/region11/projects/gowanus-project/gowanus-project-iframe

Posted by: route 10 at July 17, 2008 4:15 PM

Considering that the Big Dig in Boston took about 16 years to finish, burying the BQE by 2020 sounds a trifle optimistic.

Posted by: SnarkSlope at July 17, 2008 4:19 PM

I love it here.

We did some renovations and fixed the floor in a couple spots. I can hear the train when the window is open but NO NOISE what so ever from the street, neighbors, whatever when the windows are closed. The sense of peace and quiet is wonderful. There is the same amount of dirt and dust as there is on a brownstones windowsill in Park Slope.

The staff is great and friendly and the building and courtyard are full of young families. The Neighborhood is great and getting better. Gowanus is filling with music venues and hip work shops, restaurants and shops from Court and Smith streets are creeping this way VERY quickly.

There is a new wine shop across the street, a new Frankies cafe is opening 3 blocks away , a gourmet two store front sized food shop is opening on that same block in the next weeks, a restaurant is opening across the street in the next few months, etc, etc, etc, etc.

I have a loft with 12 foot ceilings in a doorman building in Carroll Gardens 2 blocks from the F train that I got at a great price... What more is there?

Oh yeah - the haters will be bidding against each other for my unit when I sell in 5 years....

Posted by: march1 at July 17, 2008 5:22 PM

March1:

Your post was a parody, right?

There's no way your real estate broker spoken comment was for real, was it?

Posted by: 11217 at July 17, 2008 5:35 PM

March1 - If you love it so much, why are you already planning your exit?

Posted by: SnarkSlope at July 17, 2008 5:38 PM

March 1 I agree with you the bottom of court is getting real nice. Frankies 457 is wonderful. These apts are a great deal when compared to other similar type condos.

Posted by: sebb at July 17, 2008 6:15 PM

Actually when you factor in the maintenance and taxes, they are not great deals at all.

They are pretty bad deals, in fact. In a marginal location. These will not be appreciating anytime soon if they weren't even able to sell out during the past 3 years they've been for sale.

When people buy property in New York City, they factor in not only the purchase price, but the monthly costs to maintain them. In light of that, these are overpriced. Which is the reason why they aren't selling.

If they were such "great deals" they'd all be gone by now.

Posted by: 11217 at July 17, 2008 6:26 PM

We were renters before the conversion. The apartments are unique for sure. We loved our Manhattan skyline view and high ceilings. We didn't love the management at the time and the building had/has a lot of inner problems. Plumbing, etc. We had a horrible ant problem that I doubt they could fix. We did get a lot of dirt from the BQE even though we weren't on that side. I don't think it's the healthiest of locations and now that we have kids I'm glad we moved on. I think the common charges are too high and will go up. The floors weren't put down correctly and are warped. I could go on and on. Shame because it really is a cool building inside.

Posted by: jbes at July 17, 2008 8:39 PM

Need to add to in response to one of the posts. We weren't kicked out and are not bitter. We loved living there when we were just a couple, but have no desire to raise our kids by the BQE or Gowanus. Just not for us.

Posted by: jbes at July 17, 2008 8:52 PM

11217 & SnarkSlope

Please don't live here - In fact, nobody should be talked into living here from reading a comment on a blog. The only people who should live here are those who find it to be to their liking and who think they are getting a great deal. My unit was a great deal and I love it and the building. Simple.

You likely don't live here and are haters. What else is there? Yes, I am planning to move on at some point at which time I will do very well selling my unit.

Please don't consider living at 505 Court unless you think you are getting a great deal.

Posted by: march1 at July 17, 2008 11:10 PM

jbes,

I completely agree with you on the fact that based on someones life situation, to live in a condo like this would not be practical for someone with a family. I can relate to your situation because I have a family as well and would never want to raise my kid in an area like this. I've been looking to find a nice 2 family house that is affordable and it is very hard to do so, especially in Brooklyn.

I was looking at a few areas in Staten Island and there were some places that were beautiful, with a great school district within a very reasonable budget. I've lived in Brooklyn for awhile and I love it here, but I'm at a point in my life where things have changed and I can't enjoy it as much as I use to. I guess it's hard to grow up and face reality, but it's life.

Would you ever live in Staten Island?

Posted by: Smatchums at July 18, 2008 10:14 AM

A few weeks ago I walked into the lobby of this building hoping to check out a few available apartments. The scene I encountered was unreal-a resident was screaming-yes screaming at the front desk person, accusing the her of being rude to his guests, losing packages, and horrible lack of service provided by the management company. I followed him into the elevator area and asked if he would recommend the building. He said buying here was the worst mistake he has ever made. Apparently, the super hung a picture and bookshelf which almost killed him in the middle of the night, just a laundry list of rude and insensitive things that he rattled off just left me in awe. I walked out of that building and I will never return. Given my personal experience I could not purchase something in this building or feel confident recommending it to others...

Posted by: naomi10 at July 18, 2008 10:22 AM

naomi10

I have lived here for more then a year and the staff are excellent (obviously not perfect). The door men and woman are exemplary and the super and his crew are off the hook with fast response times and out of their way service.

There are definitely kooks in the building and it sure is possible that something went wrong at the front desk and with the maintance staff as well.

Just my first hand experience.

Posted by: march1 at July 18, 2008 3:21 PM

we conducted our house search based on school zones, and bought here because we got what we consider to be a good deal for a 3-bedroom 2-bath zoned for ps 58. at the time we were looking, a 2-bedroom, 1-bath, half the size and on a 3rd floor walk up in cobble hill cost 50k more than our apt.

the layout is great for kids and, having lived in brownstones, i LOVE the convenience of an elevator so i don't have to freak out if my kids fall asleep in the stroller. i used to either have to hang out, or wake them up. now i just wheel them into the elevator, straight up to the apt, and have a break while they snooze.

there's a lot of families/kids in the building, and they all play together in the courtyard in nice weather, or when it snows. my daughter has classmates in the building, and kids she takes ballet with. the bus across the street on court takes you door to door to the 9th street playground in prospect park.

the light is gorgeous, actually, and we have a delightful view of trees and brownstones across the way on huntington street. it's a pleasure to wake up in the morning and sit in our living room. it has a really happy feel to it.

listen, it's NOT cobble hill over here, but it's not far, and it's pleasant to walk up court street. in a few years the gowanus is going to be cleaned up and they're planning a beautiful park right across the street. they've already started working on it. more and more cool stuff is working it's way down to this end.

like i said, if you can afford comperable space in cobble hill, go for it. but this suited

Posted by: whenwillitend at July 19, 2008 9:24 PM

Whenwilltend,

As I said in my previous post. It's just not for us. We didn't like being that close to the BQE. We chose somewhere greener for our kids.

Posted by: jbes at July 20, 2008 10:00 AM

?? i was just commenting. i wasn't addressing you personally.

does this greener pasture of which you speak have padded walls?

Posted by: whenwillitend at July 20, 2008 4:47 PM

Cannot believe some people think these interiors are lovely. I looked at them in the spring and the interiors were SO shoddy and the lay out just horrible. Just really really shitty construction and design by people who have no idea what they are doing. Actually the quality combined with the prices made me so disgusted I was tempted to yell at the brokers! Location is also pretty bad, but I think convenient enough to CG, in PS 58 school district, that it wouldn't matter if they had done a nice job. Happy to see the prices are plummeting.

Posted by: gkw at July 21, 2008 11:46 AM

Its interesting and telling to read comments by people LIVING in the building vs all the hatred and anger from some others regarding 505 court. Anyone reading these comments needs to factor in the recent history of the building in which 100+ renters were mis-treated and essentially thrown out (really they got offers to buy at high cost) when the building went condo.

Not all the haters who post about this building are people who were displaced but I know 100% for sure that there are those who trash the building as much as possible as some sort of bitter revenge for being displaced.

Just read all the posts about this building and see how much anger there is... Thats why. Thats not to say the building doesn't have flaws - it does such as proximity to the BQE and F train. I love the building and think its great and that its stock is rising - but thats just me.

Posted by: march1 at July 21, 2008 2:31 PM

I loved our apt. we had. The biggest problem for the building is the location. One thing I did notice when we were still living there is that they were adding walls to apts that were suppose to be studios and calling them one bedrooms. Also the building changed owners a few times while we were there. If it weren't for the location we might have stayed.

Posted by: jbes at July 21, 2008 6:17 PM

wow, people still discussing this building. well, obviously people are still moving in as I have a lot of neighbors now....and there's a full condo board, which when we moved in there was none. people who are interested in moving in, you should try to chat with people that actually live in the building and get their opinions and hear their experiences. we got a new Super this week! I'm pleased about that as the one we had wasn't bad....he was just kind of a dick.

Posted by: jerryfarina at July 31, 2008 2:01 AM

I've lived in 505 since 2006. I'm a little surprised by the negative comments because nowhere is perfect. I'm sitting in my boyfriend's apartment on the Lower East Side and his neighbor above seems to walk across the floor wearing combat boots and dragging furniture all the time. His neighbor below is a professional DJ who "practices" every day. The public areas of the building are gross given the rent he pays. I left my rental in Nolita because of the building's total disregard for the tenants, the noise from Houston Street, the building renovation that began two weeks after I moved in and the crowds in the neighborhood. I lived in a lovely apartment building on 2nd and 21st where the street noise, even on the 15th floor, was insane. I live on the 9th floor of 505 facing northwest and the noise is not bad. Yes, of course, you hear the train, but I actually like that noise, maybe because I grew up in New York. I never hear the BQE. The windows are soundproof when shut. Yes, it gets dusty if you keep your windows open, but that happens in Manhattan too.

The stretch of Court Street outside is lovely. I don't know what happierman is talking about regarding the walk to the Smith/9th Street station. You exit via the courtyard and it's a 30-second walk. What everyone should be complaining about is the horrible state of the subway station. That's the real disgrace of the neighborhood.

Posted by: littlemascara at August 14, 2008 8:33 PM

« Inside Third & Bond: Week 45 House of the Day: 228 Washington Avenue »

July 17, 2008

Condo of the Day: 505 Court Street

Trackback Pings

Comments

Post a comment

Latest Restaurant Additions