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July 21, 2008

Brooklyn Brewery Chief Bemoans Lack of Industrial Space

The lack of affordable industrial space in some sections of Brooklyn is impeding one local business's expansion. Brooklyn Brewery owner Steve Hindy, who started leasing a property on North 11th Street in Williamsburg 12 years ago, tells the Times that his quest to find a bigger space for the brewery in places like Red Hook and Gowanus has been fruitless, and he feels burned by the current administration. Hindy supported the 2005 rezoning of Williamsburg and Greenpoint but now thinks the city didn't retain enough manufacturing space in the neighborhoods; Hindy's plan to move the brewery to a pier in the Red Hook container port, meanwhile, fell through after the Port Authority decided to renew American Stevedoring's lease for the pier. “We are the Brooklyn Brewery, and we want to be in Brooklyn,” says Hindy. “If we can’t find a place, then who can? We’re about as perfect an example of light manufacturing as you can get.” According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, fewer than 100,000 manufacturing jobs remain in the city.
Double Edge to Brooklyn’s Success [NY Times]
Photo by wallyg.

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Perhaps next time there is a rezoning that totally fucks local residents and businesses, Hindy won't be such a booster.

Posted by: bkkkkklyn at July 21, 2008 10:37 AM

Ouch. More moderately, I recall being surprised at how supportive Steve was of a rezoning that wasn't good for light industrial companies like his.

Posted by: g man at July 21, 2008 10:43 AM

I feel bad for Hindy....to a point.
The reality is that his brewery isn't purely 'light manufacturing" because his location has/needs a marketing/retail component [Beer Garden, Tours, etc]. The bulk of Brooklyn beer is actually brewed and bottled in Utica NY - only the specialty brews are produced here in Brooklyn.

Therefore, the gentrification mentioned in the article is more than a by-product of his (and many others success), it is essential to the whole business.

That being said - the city should do more to help him and he also ought to consider bringing all his brew operations to NYC for leverage(how about less gentrified Brooklyn or the Bronx) even if it requires a separate location from the more retail/marketing aspect of his operation.

Personally as much as I want to support Brooklyn Beer (and I drink alot of beer) I find Brooklyn Lager to be too heavy.

Posted by: fsrg at July 21, 2008 10:46 AM

I'd be very surprised if he couldn't find something affordable in the Gowanus area. No?

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 10:48 AM

No - its all hotels now....

Posted by: dittoburg at July 21, 2008 10:51 AM

Not only has the rezoning been bad for business, the community warned them about these problems and they were ignored. When the Brooklyn Downtown rezoning took place the community warned that the "back office space" need was a myth(the exact quote was it was a boat that sailed), but the powers that be ignored the community. Now the powers that be would like to do away with community boards so they don't have to hear from the community. the same thing was true for the pier 6-12 rezoning. It was clear the wanted to push out American Stevedores(800 high paying jobs) for more cruise terminals(so far the Red Hook Cruise terminal has made less than 20 full time jobs and a small number of poorly paid part time jobs). So the numbers for Brooklyn Brewery and its jobs didn't justify pushing American Stevedores out. In the past these companies would have gone to Greenpoint/Williamsburg but rezoning there has opened up the waterfront to luxury housing and pushed out the 3 dollar per square foot companies. there is a reason why these companies can't afford NY rents but then their few employees in large spaces don't justify the subsidy needed to keep them here....

Posted by: smeyer418 at July 21, 2008 10:56 AM

Bushwick used to be the beer making center of Brooklyn, and the remains of brewmeister mansions still line Bushwick Ave. If I remember correctly, there still are some old brewery buildings in the area. I think I remember an old post here linking to Forgotten NY, or another great site like that.

I'm sure there is space, as fsrq mentions, in less tony parts of the borough. It would be great to keep some manufacturing here in Bklyn.

I grew up upstate, where Utica's brewing tradition was just as strong as Bushwick's used to be. I think Schlitz was the largest local brewery back in the 60's - 70's. I have no idea if they still exist.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at July 21, 2008 11:01 AM

A disappointing story....I don't know much about American Stevedoring, but I certainly support retaining segments of a working waterfront. It's baffling that Brooklyn Brewery simply cannot find industrial space in the borough; I personally invite them to open on Atlantic Ave hard by Prospect Heights....a much, much better option than a hole in the ground and project that brownstone Brooklyn loathes.

Posted by: Fjorder at July 21, 2008 11:02 AM

Sunset Park waterfront anyone?

There's been tons of work to maintain a working waterfront south of 20th Street all the way to the 68th St. Piers.

Bush terminal, all the Federal Buildings in the 40's and then of course the redevelopment of the 43rd St. Pier by DDC and Parks into a community park for the Sunset Park community. While the stroll from the nearest R train to the water is currently not stellar, UPROSE is planning an extension of the green-way through Greenwood Heights south to Sunset Park along 3rd Ave through Community Board 7's district.

Could work? (only if they'd just bury the damn Gowanus Expressway for christsakes)

Then again, it could turn the industrial area of SSP into another Billyburgh if City Planning gets wind of any sort of positive development in the area. Suddenly manufacturing is rezoned into swaths of near-waterfront residential? Just saying.

Remember what got Mr. Hindy into this problem to begin with...

Posted by: Action Jackson at July 21, 2008 11:10 AM

While I do sympathize with the loss of manufacturing jobs nationally, there isn't much that can be done about that in New York City. There is still plenty of perfectly fine industrial space here, but the waterfront areas are being reclaimed.

Montrose: Schlitz was in Milwaukee, it's "The Beer that Made Milwaukee Famouse" It was the largest brewery for most of the 20th century, but the company collapsed after a union strike in the early 1980s. The brand is owned by some company in San Antonio now.

You're right about Bushwick though. If the Brooklyn Brewery guys were seriously concerned about the brewing history of the borough, they would open up a brewery there. There are literally thousands of acres of underutilized industrial land, and even a few gutted former breweries. It has the hip cache, and a much larger impoverished population that could use such good jobs.

The New York Times should have taken a drive around the borough and talked to a few industrial brokers. They maybe should have even researched where breweries used to be.

Also, the city is keeping much of Sunset Park industrial. New phases of the Brooklyn Army Terminal are going to be brought online in the next few years with several million square feet of space. It ain't over yet.

Posted by: Polemicist at July 21, 2008 11:16 AM

Part of the problem seems to be that Steve wants to have a thriving retail operation (e.g.: beer garden), which rules out many industrial neighborhoods because he is just not going to get the kind of traffic he would in Williamsburg, on Pier 7 or in Gowanus or DUMBO.

And, with all due respect for what Steve has accomplished and his philanthropy to Brooklyn and New York not-for-profits, for locally-brewed beer I cast my vote for Chelsea, especially that fruity, flowery Hop Angel.

Posted by: g man at July 21, 2008 11:18 AM

fsqr --- I don't agree about Brooklyn Lager -- I like it, it's the Brown that's way too heavy -- but you are right that he should look elsewhere in the borough. Times change. The reason he went to Williamsburg when he did was that it was cheap. So, now that the area has grown up, its not cheap anymore. Do what you did earlier, Mr Hindy, and go further out in search of cheap space that will be highly sought after in another 10-15 years. This is actually a really good problem to have.......I loved his line about how naming your business "Brooklyn Brewery" makes it hard to move to Jersey (but I'm sure there are plenty of bozos who would do it anyway).

Posted by: slopenick at July 21, 2008 11:22 AM

Bushwick was definitely my first thought here, but then I thought about all those great former industrial buildings in Prospect Heights, like Ward's Bakery, the Spalding factory (although converted to condos), etc. Ooops! Steve's pal Bruce is tearing them down and isn't building his stadium soon enough for Steve to cash in on those promised sales. Karma's a bitch, man.

Posted by: babs at July 21, 2008 11:44 AM

The reality is that with ZERO large AMERICAN Beer Breweries (now all own by foreign companies) - there exists an opportunity for regional breweries to expand from their craft business and become larger national brands - using "Americana" and history as a marketing pitch. Certainly re-occupying an old Bushwick Brew House (if feasible - I only drink the stuff not brew it) might help Steve (or another Brewery) tap into this. Although with Brooklyn cut of from the main rail lines The Bronx may be a more economically feasible option.
There really is no reason that they cant keep the Williamsburg location for their retail/public face and move all (or most) of the brewing to another (cheaper) NYC location. Considering that the bulk of their beer is now brewed upstate I don't really think they lose any credibility with such a move. -. is it a nice as a consolidated operation in Red Hook or Gowanus - no of course not but in the end it may actually be more economical and better for buisness. (You know alot of grapes for "Long Island" wines comes from upstate too)

Posted by: fsrg at July 21, 2008 12:07 PM

Slopenick - its just a matter of taste - I actually enjoy a Pilsner like a Yuengling or even a Rolling Rock to a Lager like Brooklyn. Maybe its because I tend to drink 3-4 a night (AA here I come)

Posted by: fsrg at July 21, 2008 12:10 PM

While they could move their local brewing operations elsewhere, part of the "retail" operation is a brewery tour, which is hard to do if your brewery is in Bushwick and your retail is in Williamsburg! (I'm assuming people want to see the brewery tour and not just quaff ale...)

Posted by: WBer at July 21, 2008 12:24 PM

“We are the Brooklyn Brewery, and we want to be in Brooklyn,” says Hindy. “If we can’t find a place, then who can?

As a Brooklyn Brewery (and beer) lover, I think Hindy misspoke. He meant to say, "we want to be in one of the up and coming and lucrative Brooklyn neighborhoods."

I'm quite sure there's real estate all over Brooklyn he could move to. It just might not be in Williamsburg or DUMBO.

Posted by: boygabriel at July 21, 2008 12:28 PM

As I was reading the article, I kept thinking, Why not the Sunset Park waterfront? Seems ideal to me--would love a beer garden in Sunset Park, as I currently travel to do my drinking. Makes a lot of sense to me. Gorilla Coffee roasts its beans on 41st Street--why can't Brookyn Brewery brew its beer nearby? Are there zoning regulations that prohibit that kind of industry/business in Sunset Park?

Posted by: raedog at July 21, 2008 12:35 PM

Why don't more business owners buy their property?

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 1:18 PM

I'm so ambivalent about this story. On the one hand BB is a great story and I totally think that it would be great for the City (and BK) for them to stay in Brooklyn and to expand operations. I think the pier 7 plan would have been great for both the brewery and Brooklyn Bridge Park. A brewpub would have been a great transition from the park to the north to the industrial piers to the south. On the other hand, Hindy is simply not willing to pay enough to get land in the expensive neighborhoods he wants. There's plenty of cheap land in neighborhoods that Hindy is ruling out. Although it is cheaper for a good reason...
TO me, this is one of the tougher economic development questions in Brooklyn today...

Posted by: Make My Heights the P Heights at July 21, 2008 1:26 PM

Polemicist, you are correct re: Schlitz. I did a little research, and I think I was remembering Utica Club Beer. I was a tad underage at the time, so I guess I remembered wrong. I've never had a taste for beer, so what can I say?

Lots of companies have manufacturing space out in an industrial area somewhere, and their "public face" - tourist area, company store, whatever, in a more travelled area. I don't see why Brooklyn Brewery couldn't do the same. The Sunset Park area also seems to be perfect for both. As more of Bklyn opens up to tours and tour buses (mixed blessing, I know)a Sunset Park Industrial area could certainly benefit from that.

It is so important for a city to maintain a manufacturing base of some kind. It is unhealthy for any city to be a one or two industries town. Look at Detroit and Bethlehem, PA. Of course, NYC is different for many reasons, but diversity in industry is as important as diversity of peoples and incomes. All are necessary for a thriving city.

Posted by: Montrose Morris at July 21, 2008 3:58 PM

Hindy has worked to support the destruction of light industry in Prospect Heights, so he gets no sympathy from me. I found other Brooklyn beers to drink since he was such a jerk in his support the Atlantic Yards proposal.

Still, I hope he could move to Sunset Park. Though I'm sure someone wants to build luxury condos and/or hotels there as well.

Posted by: harriet at July 21, 2008 4:10 PM

fsrq, 3-4 a night is not AA territory, you still have a lot of headroom.

BB makes a lot of beers, the pilsner is a good choice if the lager is too heavy.

I think people are dead right that anything near the water or in a trendy spot is desirable for the brand going to be hard to afford, and that you could find a spot for a factory further inland. But what would be wrong with operating a beer garden in one or more "good" locations and the factory somewhere else? I suppose people want to see the vats and all that, but it seems like an idea.

Posted by: jawbreaker at July 21, 2008 4:24 PM

MM -

That's not unlike the set up at Bush Terminal when it was first built. BT was where all the goods went, while there was a showroom front end at the Bush Building on 42nd (still there, between 6th and Broadway). The same developer did both, with tenants at the terminal taking small office space in Manhattan to display their wares and have a prestigious address.

I'm still not sure this works for BB, though, as part of their "retail" experience is the brewery itself, which even for a small set up requires some amount of space. I think BB got out of the distribution business, so they might no longer need the huge amounts of space they once had in Williamsburg, but they still need something larger than a storefront somewhere.

Posted by: WBer at July 21, 2008 4:24 PM

For all the BB bashing, Hindy has a very good point - industry is getting priced out of Brooklyn, and that has some important implications for the City. Some industries have to be nearby, and some just want to be. When we price these folks out, we lose good paying jobs (and replace them with service jobs, if they are replaced at all) and just make housing affordability worse (ironically, we're fighting to put affordable housing in former industrial sites, but no one is fighting to keep the industries and the jobs in the first place).

Whether or not BB made (or helped to make) the problem, it is very real. As someone else said earlier, all the warnings from the community with regard to industry came to pass in Greenpoint/Williamsburg, just faster and more completely than even the industrial advocates could have thought.

Posted by: WBer at July 21, 2008 4:34 PM

I'm still confused why a business which is probably raking in a few million (more?) dollars a year for many years didn't have the foresight to buy an old warehouse in Williamsburg or Gowanus or wherever when they were practically giving them away...

Too late now, I guess, but it makes no sense to me, especially in this particular instance. You know you are going to be in Brooklyn for the life of the business if it's in the name. Seems like poor planning to me.

Posted by: 11217 at July 21, 2008 5:17 PM

Sounds like Hindy wants to have his beer and drink it too.

Since the suds are brewed in Utica, they might as well move to Sunset Park, keep a beer garden space somewhere more accessible (like Williamsburg), and stop whining about "If we can’t find a place, then who can?".
I'm prone to thinking this Times article is Hindy's Opera, with the hopes a politico will step in and save them.

BB has created a cool "brand" by keeping one toe in Brooklyn, but Sixpoint Craft Ales is brewed here completely and trounces them across the board - and no I don't work for them. :)

Posted by: Forrestian at July 21, 2008 5:58 PM

« Fulton St. Theater Will Be New Home for Arts Orgs Checking In On the Adams Street Bike Lane »

July 21, 2008

Brooklyn Brewery Chief Bemoans Lack of Industrial Space

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