Wednesday Links

Nokilissa;

Yes, this is America, where private property is still respected. If you read the story, you would see that there were real factors to be considered - such as weddings and funerals. Should those who have such events at the church invite only those who can bike or walk.

Mind your own damn business. Live, and let live.

Benson

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 10:52 AM

Nokilissa;

Yes, this is America, where private property is still respected. If you read the story, you would see that there were real factors to be considered - such as weddings and funerals. Should those who have such events at the church invite only those who can bike or walk.

Mind your own damn business. Live, and let live.

Benson

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 10:59 AM

Nokilissa;

Perhaps in your dreams NYC is a socialist nation-state, walled off from that evil entity known as "America". For most normal folks, including those who live in NYC, we have family dispersed throught the metro area and beyond. Tell me, genius, are folks from New Jersey supposed to take a cab to Bay Ridge?

There are pros and cons to a church having a parking lot (BTW: NYC law requires all new churches to provide a parking lot). How the congregants of each church choose to use their lot (if they have one) is their business. Stop being a busybody and calling people "a selfish minority" for exercising their basic right to use their property as they see fit.

Also, I'm wondering why the congregants of this church should take any advice from you, given your obvious contempt for them?

Benson

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 1:41 PM

e10b: someone from the sanitation department is speaking about this at the Community Board 2 meeting tonight. The meeting is at 6:00 in the Pheonix Career Academy, 50 Jay Street (between Water and Plymouth Streets) in DUMBO. But don't get too excited; from what I hear, nothing will be implemented until Fall at the earliest.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 3:53 PM

BxGrl;

I really suggest you read the US Constitution.

Churches do not receive tax "breaks". We have a clause regarding a separation church and state. Simply put, the taxman is kept away from religious institutions, lest they use this power to "persuade" the churches about the "politically correct" thing to do. Your statements amply demonstrate the wisdom of this clause.

It is the height of folly to state that a church is supposed to demonstrate that it "cares" about the community by supporting a commerical activity, which is what a farmer's market is ( a "politically correct" commerical activity). It is an invitation to tyranny to suggest that churches follow the politically-corect cause, lest they lose their "tax breaks". If you like that type of thinking, then move to China,where churches and their activities must be "approved" by the government.

Benson

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 4:24 PM

Bxgrl;

There is no point is debating you. You are simply ignorant.

Benson

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 5:13 PM

Benson you are the ignorant one. I grew up in Bay Ridge in the 70's and you are old school Bay Ridge. You quoted from the gospel with gems like, "mind your own business", "If you like that thinking move to China". It's such a finite old school Bay Ridge red, white, and blue...black\white way of looking at things. It doesn't fit the mode, it don't belong. Usually those simplistic views are from an ignoramus.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 10:42 PM

Nokilissa and BxGrl;

No, I stopped debating because of the reason I said: complete ignorance on the part of Bxgrl, as such:

Churches do not receive tax money. Their social-services agencies receive fees to implement programs like homeless services, etc., and there is a regulatory wall preventing that money from going into the religious side of the organization. Moreover, ignorant ones, she engages in gratuitous Bush-bashing, implying that he initiated this set-up. The fact is that local and state governments have contracted with faith-based social services WAY before the federal government got into the act. The two biggest social service agencies that NYC contracts with are Catholic Charities and the Salvation Army. Yes, liberal NYC has been giving these agencies money for social services for a long time. But why let the facts get in the way of some gratuitous, ignorant Bush-bashing?

BxGrl also is ignorant of the US Constitution. She claims that it is a violation of the constituition for churches to speak out on public issues. Wrong again, oh ignorant ones! The Constitution only forbids the government from establishing, or lending its weight, to one particular faith or religious institution. It does not state anything about churches speaking out on public issues.

I could go on, but I'll stop here, as it will fall on deaf ears.

Finally, Nikilissa, you can't tell the difference between being defeated, and using some discretion. I generally don't waste my energy on ignorant people who wallow in it.

Benson

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 10:51 PM

Gov't fees for faith based services come from taxes. Did you think that money grew on trees? And while there is SUPPOSED to be a regulatory wall, in practice it is quite difficult to separate, especially for religious organizations such as the Salvation Army for instance (whom I have worked for so guess what? I know something about the issue. Many of their federally funded programs provide services based on their belief in G-d. AA even has reference to a Higher Power in its 12 point program. As for gratuitous Bush-Bashing- this is from the white House faith based initiative website: Work of the Initiative:

* Pursuing legislative efforts to extend charitable choice provisions that prevent discrimination against faith-based organizations, protect the religious freedom of beneficiaries, and preserve religious hiring rights of faith-based charities" - in other words protect the rights of a religious group who receives federal funding even if that group practices discrimination. How is that separation of church and State?

And yes religious groups have received federal,state and city funds for years, however they were required to adhere to certain rules to protect the separation of church and State, which Bush has attempted to weaken because he is an evangelical fundamentalist.

"BxGrl also is ignorant of the US Constitution. She claims that it is a violation of the constitution for churches to speak out on public issues."

In fact that is not what I said. The separation of church and state works both ways, which is why quite a few churches are having their tax status reconsidered because they have engaged in partisan politics-which according to the tax laws they are not allowed to do. Tax exemptions, by the way, are not a right, they are a privilege and as such have granted religious institutions a privileged status which more than a few have seen fit to abuse. Evangelical chaplains and officers try to force students and soldiers into accepting their version of Christianity. the Air force Academy is a prime example.

Churches are often wealthy in property as well and while this Bay Ridge church seems to have forgotten it is privileged, others, like the American Jewish congress donate money to their communities that they do not pay in taxes because they are part of their communities. The "Wall of Separation" is not a one way permeable membrane- if Churches don't want the government in their business, they should stay out of the business of trying to govern.

so Benson, you see, you haven't had a conversation with me, nor a debate. You've merely engaged in a name-calling hissy fit while throwing out a generalization about the Constitution without context or understanding.

And while you claim to not waste your energy with ignorant people, I'm an optimist. I do waste my time on them because I like to think everyone can learn something from someone else's opinion. Hope you don't prove me wrong.

(thank you Nokilissa- what you said made my day!)

Posted by: guest at June 12, 2008 12:55 AM