Open House Picks: The Morning After

I went to 20 Sterling, and it really does need a good deal of work. It's big though, and could be beautiful after maybe 200k of renovations. That was my feeling at least.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 11:44 AM

Didn't make it to any OHs, but this is a great feature that I hope you will continue. It would be nice to see comments once people have actually seen the property.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 11:56 AM

Still wondering who bid what for 215 prospect pl aka the one that got away.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 11:58 AM

I went to 20 Sterling too, and it really does indeed need a good deal of work. Just the facade (front and back) itself will probably need 75k of work (at least there is a new roof!). After that the fun starts to renovate the inside and you are probably looking at at least 300 to 400k so not sure the 1.8 asking price is going to fly. But yest it's big and could be beautiful.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:04 PM

Yep, me too, 11:58. I almost put in a bid on 215 Prospect. Am dying to know what the numbers were/are. Anyone? Anyone?

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:10 PM

20 Sterling is a major rip-off. The place is a dark, dank, dump on the inside. Smelled horribly. It might be "big" but it's only 3 floors. 3-story houses that need a major overhaul don't command $1.8 in the Slope.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:12 PM

We bid on 215 Prospect Pl. We lost. We were told it went for "over $1.6M", but not the exact figure.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:17 PM

215 Prospect will be great after someone pours a /ton/ of money into it... pretty crazy.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:20 PM

Oh, for those that did bid on 215 Prospect, what was your thought process behind it, considering the amount of work required even to make it habitable (much less nice.)?

I couldn't make the mental math work on it, at least in my situation...

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:22 PM

Was thinking of checking out the Clinton Hill property, but the "appointment only" restriction made it impossible to do so without pre-planning. Don't these owners understand the concept of the "open house"?

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:23 PM

Totally agree 12:23. An open house requiring an appointment is an oxymoron. I can't understand the brokers that use this method, and I think they do a great disservice to themselves and the owners.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:29 PM

I heard 166 Prospect went for 2.3 so maybe 215 bidding wasn't so crazy.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:36 PM

Some owners request open houses with appointments because they want each buyer to be taken through the house with the broker and explained everything in great detail...also so they can be watched and nothing is stolen.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:42 PM

I heard that 215 went for over $1.6M and there were 12 offers.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:50 PM

215 Prospect Place had seven offers. Accepted offer was nearly 20% above asking. With necessary renovations, project likely to run well over $2M.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:53 PM

Open houses with appointments are also done on holiday weekends like Father's day, when traffic anticipated to be slow - so people who are really interested have access but the broker isn't sitting around waiting for no one.

not a broker - just knowledgeable.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:57 PM

There weren't 7 offers, there were 12.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 12:58 PM

Sounds like broker for 215 was just lying to people because there are a lot of different stories floating around. Unless someone is going to say what they themselves offered rather than what they heard it went for, none of this is worth believing.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:03 PM

12:57--I've had to make appointments for many open houses that were absolutely not on a holiday weekend. That is not the sole rationale. I would guess that yes, it's to weed out the tire-kickers, but sometimes those tire-kickers become buyers.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:03 PM

Couple of weeks ago, first OH, "Estate Condition" -- here's the listing:

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1280285

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:04 PM

PP is still on the mkt, according to corco just not in contract

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:05 PM

"When was 215 PP for sale? I don't recall this one and couldn't find it when googled. Couldn't find it on Brownstoner HOTD's either. Was this a recent fish?"

It's a Corcoran listing that went on the market 5/28, had its first and only open house on June 1 (which was incredibly packed), and apparently too "best and final offers" this past week. It was never a HOTD, strangely enough.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:07 PM

corcoran doesn't change their website that fast. they had a best and final a week ago.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:07 PM

I went to see 1220 8th Ave (BHS). Great reno.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:07 PM

"Appointment only" open houses are not restricted to holiday weekend. That's bogus. Just a recent example--383 3rd Street had appointment-only open houses every weekend since it came on the market in May. I will assume that the appointment barrier did not really yield enough traffic, as this past weekend (Father's Day, holiday weekend) it had its first regular, no appointment required, open house.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:12 PM

1:03 is right. You can't trust a broker that will tell you what someone bid for a house. So, anyone want to say what they offered?

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:12 PM

What does 'Estate Condition' mean?
and in the case of 215 pp - what did it mean?

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:14 PM

Anyone else see 1220 8th? I'm surprised it hasn't appeared on this site yet. I went as well, and it is a great reno, though maybe a little minimalist (the parlor floor is essentially a white, open space now, with very little character or charm left).

Any thoughts on the 1.995 asking price? Seems pretty ambitious to me, but who knows, the house is in near perfect condition, and a professional range, central AC, and house-wide audio system might go a long way with some buyers...

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:15 PM

re: 1220 8th- I think 1.995 is a ridiculous price. I saw it and here's what's wrong:
1) it's a dollhouse (16 x 40, 3 floors)
2) no old charm left
3) short lot/tiny garden
4) big problem: 2 parking lots just behind garden which you can be sure will be developed some day - so you'll be living near construction and then have no light
5) houses that size around there sell for far, far less - even the same broker has a house same size on same block for 600K+ less. Yes, I know the renovation is different, but the other house is in very sound shape, so it would not take 600K to change.

That house is at least 300K overpriced!

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:19 PM

Saw Sterling place - person who estimated it needs 200K of work is absurdly underestimating. Exterioe fixes alone could easily run 100K, not to mention electric/plumbing will likely need to be redone, woodwork throughout needs work, kitchen/baths need redoing, floors are trashed, the place smells, etc. 400K is probably the least you'll have to spend, but not sure you'll ever get that bad smell out (mold, smoke) and not sure why it's so dark...

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:22 PM

Corcoran doesn't mark a property "Under Contract" on its website until the buyer signs. It makes for great sales pressure "I got THREE calls today from the website--others are definitely interested. When are you going to sign the contract?"

I would be cautious about this area with AY coming/maybe not coming.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:23 PM

Yes, I put an offer in on 215 PP. I offered $1.5 and there were numerous offers in over mine, oh well.
Still looking is anyone else has any leads...

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:25 PM

"What does 'Estate Condition' mean?
and in the case of 215 pp - what did it mean?"

It means it was in worse condition than everyone is saying 20 sterling is in.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:26 PM

did anyone make an all-cash offer on 215 Prospect Place? Wonder if that will affect the bids.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:27 PM

Why would Corcoran mark a property as "under contract" when its not in contract? That makes no sense!

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:28 PM

I also went to 1220 8th, and I wouldn't call it a dollhouse by any means, nor would I say it's 300k overpriced. I've looked at a lot of houses, and it's rare to see one in such good shape, charm or no. Plus with the 8th Ave location, it would never be listed at 1.695. I'd say maybe 1.8 is closer to reality for that one.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:30 PM

I went to the OH. It meant, in this case:

- wood/coal burning stoves in the garden/4th floors
- major water damage in the ceiling that had led to peeled ceilings showing the joists, damage to the stairs, and black mold all over the 4th floor ceiling.
- toilet/sink closets rather than combined "bathrooms"
- major structural electric issues.
- clearly no work done for a long, long time, and the folks that were on the 4th floor at the same time i was were seriously creeped out -- just bad mojo.

The invite to LBJ's inauguration sitting on a mantelpiece seemed appropriate.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:31 PM

Does anyone else think that dealing with the Neinast(s) from Corcoran is really unappealing? (Prospect Place Broker)

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:36 PM

"I offered $1.5 and there were numerous offers in over mine, oh well."

1:25 when you do find the next place, offer a little bit over. For all you know the "numerous" offers over yours may have ranged up to 1.5 mill and 50 cents.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:38 PM

Nokilissa your math and your measurements are wrong.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:46 PM

"Guess What, 491 3rd Street just got $100,000 shaved off the ask. IM Pei designed, 22 feet wide, best street in Brooklyn....blah blah blah. Is it the Credit Crunch or is the layout just too weird?"

Not only was the price reduced, BUT the broker removed any and all reference to I.M. Pei from the listing! Hmmm...

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 1:52 PM

491 3rd Street is actually the work of renowned architect I.P. Freeley. It's a common mistake.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 2:00 PM

Well, apparently now 383 3rd Street is "temporarily off-market" according to Streeteasy. The listing is also gone from Corcoran. Wonder what happened. It's only been a few weeks.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 2:02 PM

Yes, his "Yellow River" house in St. Louis is stunning.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 2:03 PM

"Does anyone else think that dealing with the Neinast(s) from Corcoran is really unappealing? (Prospect Place Broker)"

Yes. I dealt with them last year when they had a 6th Ave house for sale. They said there was a bidding war, yet the house remained on the market for almost a year, and was reduced many times. I believe there were some comments on various Brownstoner threads about it last year.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 2:04 PM

So that's it on 1220 8th? Anyone else see it? I'm just curious because we're thinking about putting in an offer...

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 2:10 PM

if it needs an appointment, its not an open house. Its just the normal way of showing a house.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 2:11 PM

It was a full 20' lot and nothing conservative about assuming there was an offer over 1.6. Even with your math, that wouldn't make it "well over 2 mill".

I saw it. It wasn't for me because I haven't the time for the project of bringing it into better condition. You didn't even see the listing let alone the house, so I don't know where you get off declaring it in need of 400 thousand minimum.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 2:21 PM

i went over to 1220 8th as well and i agree that the dollhouse comment was overblown. rarely have i seen a renovation of the quality of this one... anyone else open any of the kitchen drawers? every one is groove fitted... no nails. man, you never see that kind of precision and craftsmanship these days. plus, anyone else notice that the cabinetry was all cut out of single pieces of wood to preserve the consistency of the grain. nice touch. seemed that level of attention to detail was preserved around the house as well, right down to the quality of the mechanicals in the basement. all in all, very solid. i would put it in the $1.85mm to $1.95mm range.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 2:36 PM

Just to comment on the topic way back about having to make appointments instead of a true open house. Someone said:

"I would guess that yes, it's to weed out the tire-kickers, but sometimes those tire-kickers become buyers."

True! WE were tire kickers when we found the house we bought. Lucky for the seller too, because they listed during a bad time of year and didn't have any other offers but ours. Whenever we sell one day I would never never refuse to have an open house.

If a homeowner is worried about theft then take everything of value and put it in storage. That's the solution, not skipping open houses.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 2:46 PM

Love how bitter brokers who don't want people criticizing their listings do this thing, where they paste huge long posts so they turn everyone away.

We KNOW it's you, silly!

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 2:48 PM

Yes, 2:36 sounds like owner/owner's friend/broker. The fact is, this is a small house on a small lot with an admittedly nice but not spectacular renovation, in a dicey market - and most of all, there is a lot just behind the property that will almost certainly be developed some day and really hurt property value. Good luck to sellers and whoever buys. By the way, the owners paid less than a million only a few years ago and there's no way the renovation cost *that* much and house values are calming down. Go ahead and pay a lot, but it's foolish...

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 3:24 PM

...and 3:24 sounds like someone who wants to put in a bid and not face much competition...

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 3:45 PM

"Love how bitter brokers who don't want people criticizing their listings do this thing, where they paste huge long posts so they turn everyone away.

We KNOW it's you, silly!"

It looks like it worked.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 3:45 PM

I'm 3:24 - no, I will not put in a bid since I don't want to live in the shadow of a construction site/big bldg in a few years (when adjacent empty lots are developed), nor do I particularly like the small lot/small dimensions of house, so frankly, I don't really care what someone else pays. I just find the asking price galling but more power to them if they get anything close to it, though I pity the fool.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 3:55 PM

Anyone know if the fixer upper on Marlborough & Albemarle (HOD some time ago) sold? Doesn't seem to be on Corcoran's site anymore. Also a house w/great potential but needed extensive work, far more than the broker was admitting to.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 4:35 PM

I looked at the CG house I was thinking of making it a 2 family. I am talking to a engineer to see if he can make it fly. I will keep you guys updated.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 4:44 PM

nothing anyone writes on this hyper-mendacious blog is to be believed.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 7:04 PM

Regarding 1220 8th avenue, seems like the listing broker Rosalie Weider at Brown Harris Stevens is doing a lot of postings. Three small floors $2mil.? Way overpriced, will never comp for this on 8th Avenue, not on that block, inferior location. Watch it fetch 1.6 or so.. Maybe. Don't rush for this one..

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 7:59 PM

Comparing 1220 8th Ave to the other houses on that block is somewhat of a joke. Nothing else is finished as nicely. Acting like that doesn't count for anything is ridiculous.

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 9:20 PM

I'm commenting as a guest because I haven't been able to login to this site for a long time. I e-mailed for help but no go.

Anyway, my username is Deetrane, if anyone would like to know. I am the brother of the owner of 1220 8th avenue, who would (er, WILL) kill me when she finds out I posted this. Anyway, I don't know who 2:36 is, but it certainly does seem that they want to see the house get sold. All I can say is, I doubt it's my sister of brother in law, neither or whom have ever commented on any kind of blog before, to my knowledge. But if it is, take note: BLOGS 101!!!! NOBODY BELIEVES ANONYMOUS POSTERS. PUT IN A NAME OR DON'T POST AT ALL.

The contractor is Square Indigo, and as some of the commenters have noted (regardless of their motives), they do terrific work (NOT cheap, however). They are doing a big job (gut, adding a new floor, extension in the back) at 432 or 434 8th st right now. I watch them work, with envy, everyday across my backyard on ninth street.

Regarding character - I think they did a nice job given what they started with, which was awful. Much of the early character was lost long before the current renovation. I suppose they could have tried to put some back, but obviously, that wasn't their style.

Check out the gorgeous pics on the architect's website - http://www.delsonsherman.com/delson_sherman_apc/projects/parkslope_rh.php.

I don't know about the price, but I'd live there!

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 9:59 PM

9:20 - owner/owner's friend/broker

It's finished fine, nothing extraordinary - certainly not worth the extra 100's of K it's asking. 1.8 at the very most, and even that is ridiculous...

Posted by: guest at June 16, 2008 10:22 PM

Finishes don't count for 300-400K - maybe 100K tops. 1220 8th Ave price is ridiculous.

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 1:35 AM

Given the costs of renovating in NYC, I'm not sure why people don't think that a renovated/finished product is worth $300k more. I'm guessing if you took a house of that size that was in a mediocre condition and posted it here, people would say it needs $300k worth of work.

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 7:33 AM

Why is it that as soon as their is a positive post about a house/apartment some fool has to write "owner/broker/owners friend/their mailman/family members etc." ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If they want to post (which I am sure they arent) they have the right too just as you have the right to post and rip their houses/apartments/taste of renovation etc.
Remember people dont choose to have their properties listed on this site, yet you all choose to insult them time and time again and its hurtful.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Before you write another hurtful post why not post a picture of your house/apartment so people can go to town on that!

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 8:48 AM

8:48 - I'm one of the people posting that 1220 8th Ave is overpriced. I'm not insulting the house - just the price. The house is fine, and the owners taste is not being criticized, but the fact is that it is small, on a small lot (with parking lots behind it), and while it is renovated/finished nicely, it is just ridiculous to mark up the house as much as they did for that, when those finished may merit a slight mark-up, but not 300-400K which is what they are charging. The very same broker has a house a few doors down for more than 600K less, and while it is not renovated the same way, that house might need 200-300K work tops to make it cosmetically as pretty (structurally it apparently does not even need work). People who overprice their homes open themselves up to much more scrutiny than those who are more realistic and less greedy.

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 9:23 AM

1:35. You have never renovated a living space. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are a robot.

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 9:29 AM

Wow... The amount of bs that flies around this site is truly astounding. I have never actually been into the specific place under discussion, but as an architect in Bklyn, I can tell you that the going rate for a mid-level renovation in NYC, assuming a kitchen and 2 bathrooms is running just north of $300 per square foot right now... and that easily tops $400 psf for a moderately high end job... for the math-challenged, that puts a quality job on a 2,000 sq ft place at minimum $600k. Quality work at $200k? maybe in Des Moines...

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 10:29 AM

To the architect at 10:29 am - I have now looked at several houses with 5 architects (and contractors), and since we were far along with one house, used the visits as a kind of architect interview. While it's true that we were told that high-end renovations can cost a lot, they also said that 200 psf is completely do-able with very nice finishes. These were not low-end architects, but ones who knew tricks to economize while still having the end result be one of quality and beauty. So I think you are the one spewing bs insisting that only in Des Moines can you do 200psf. Again, same brokerage (Brown Harris) said that one of their other houses on 8th bet 4/5 was renovated for only about 400K and that was a HUGE job - turning a tiny 1400 sf house into one double the size (3 story 14 ft extension, brand new 4th floor, new everything) - so that renovation would work out to about 14 psf. Sure, some people don't want to deal with the work of renovation, and want move right in, but I would imagine people with that much money would prefer a slightly bigger or better located house for that price! Also, the nice thing about doing work yourself is that then it's your taste, not someone else's that you're inheriting (and nice as it is, you may still not completely like)....

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 10:46 AM

I'm not sure why everyone is kvetching about the asking price. It's just an asking price--put in an offer if you like a property. You never know!! We bought our house way below the asking--we just bid what we could afford and figured they would take it or leave it and we got lucky. Didn't hurt to try. A house is "worth" what someone will pay for it.

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 10:49 AM

10:46 here - typo in my my post - renovation of 8th St would have worked out to about 142 psf, not 14 (now *that* might be something you can only find in Des Moines...)

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 11:03 AM

8th St owners renovated for $400k?? That's a helluva profit they'll be making in 2 years.

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 11:58 AM

I think the owner of the 8th Street house is a designer, so they may not have had the same kind of architect fees that other similar projects have.

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 12:05 PM

10:46 here - typo in my my post - renovation of 8th St would have worked out to about 142 psf, not 14 (now *that* might be something you can only find in Des Moines...)

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 12:06 PM

I think we are getting a lot better/rational discussion on 1220 8th Ave now. I'd bet they get at least $1.85.

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 2:02 PM

Sorry, but pretty high end architects we spoke to just showed us project they finished in a fancy PS townhouse that came in at 220 psf but that included central air and high end finishes - since we did not want central air, and were willing to do Ikea kitchen (customized) and other slightly lower end finishes, they said 200 psf was indeed doable, and this was confirmed by contractor that friends of mine have worked with who comes in on budget...

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 2:16 PM

It really does depend what kind of renovation you are doing. Are you taking everything down to four walls and a roof and re-doing all mechanicals, moving plumbing stacks, replacing the water main, the roof, etc? Or are you keeping the structure as is and adding the upgrades like central air and a new kitchen? These are very different projects whose costs will come out differently. Also, does this include the architects' fees? Are they the project managers or is it just the GC? It also depends what you find when you open the walls. We found a hole into our neighbor's chimney and a header that had been completely cut through when the previous owner installed his own bathroom. I agree that cheaper renovations are "doable", as long as you are confident that the quality of the work isn't reflected in the price. It will cost much more if you have to re-do or repair things later. I'd check to see that a contractor's work has held up over several years.

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 5:04 PM

When you are contemplating the cost of a major renovation keep in mind the cost of living somewhere else while you are waiting for permits and waiting for work to be finished. You will be paying rent, plus a mortgage, and then the contractor and everyone else. Also keep in mind that the prices quoted for renovations often don't include all materials (counter tops, appliances, light fixtures, bathroom fixtures, etc.) so add at least 20% for that and other stuff. That $400,000 will be closer to $600,000 at the end of the day.

Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 8:46 PM