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June 24, 2008

MTA Postponing Rehabs of Many Brooklyn Stations

Yesterday the MTA announced it will delay the renovation of 19 subway stations around the city, the bulk of which are in Brooklyn. (Runner-up: The Bronx.) The biggest rehab that's biting the dust, at least for now, is the overhaul of the Smith-9th station. Renovations of a number of stations on the D/M line are also being put on hold. “To me, a cut is a cut is a cut,” said Gene Russianoff, the staff lawyer for the Straphangers Campaign, a transit advocacy group. “Their spin is that they’re deferrals, but they’re deferred into no man’s land.” MTA chief executive Elliot G. Sander said the postponements are coming because the authority doesn't know how it's going to afford the service improvements it's already started, and that the MTA is facing a budget shortfall due, in large part, to a falloff in tax revenue from real estate transactions.
M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010 [NY Times]
Graphic from The New York Times.

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Does Gene Russianoff realize that money doesn't appear out of the thin air?

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 9:37 AM

Given the huge demand for public transit in this city - it only makes sense to raise fairs.

Decades of deferred maintenance have taken a big toll on the system, and people have gotten a heavily discounted ride for way too long. Raise the fair!

Posted by: Polemicist at June 24, 2008 9:40 AM

It's time to cut these ALL of these guys loose and install new MTA management from the top on down.

They had a ONE BILLION DOLLAR surplus two years ago, they keep jacking up fares, and they continue to waste gobs of money. (One can only wonder where the money goes at the MTA.)

Where is our Governor in all of this? It's his responsibility!

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 9:41 AM

Ah, nice to see polemicist ranting stupidity again.

It's FARES, moron, not fairs!

Fares are fees you pay for services, fairs are places where people like you buy tee shirts and finger food. Sheesh- and you think you're a Brooklyn policy pundit? Uneducated, ungrammatical, and uninformed.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 9:44 AM

Let's see.. Why you ask? When a sale is recorded you pay a "MTA Tax" on that sale. The amount of sales are falling (See Case Shiller) and that creates a short fall. No sales no money.

BTW You Atlantic Yards Asshats take note.....

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: what at June 24, 2008 9:48 AM

9:44 - Just because someone can't spell doesn't mean they are uninformed. Your arguments on the other hand, are just unenlightened.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 9:51 AM

It's cheap to rant against someone brave enough to sign in under a known moniker when you are a chicken-shit Guest.

To the topic, the MTA seems a perfect storm of incompetence, cronyism, unnion intransigence, and declining revenues. Something's gotta give!

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 9:55 AM

9:55 writes..."the MTA seems a perfect storm of incompetence, cronyism, unnion intransigence, and declining revenues"

That about sums it up.

Ever notice that the most inefficient businesses and the ones that were always on the verge of bankruptcy were totally unionized...steel, autos, airlines, MTA, post office, etc., etc., etc.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2008 10:01 AM

You think Polemicist has an informed, enlightened argument? "Given the huge demand for public transit in this city - it only makes sense to raise fairs.

Decades of deferred maintenance have taken a big toll on the system, and people have gotten a heavily discounted ride for way too long. Raise the fair!"

Public transportation is for everyone- but the majority of people who use it are poor or middle class because you supposed rich types are still driving your SUVs. So you get a guy who works in maintenence and he's making mabe 10-15$ an hour. He's the guy who is going to get screwed with a fare hike. Not Mr. SUV. And by an agency that wastes so much money it is unbelieveable. (How 'bout those lifetime free passes, hey?)

Heavily discounted? By who? Not only does Polemecist have serious difficulty with facts, he thinks like Ann Coulter with a 2 digit IQ.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:04 AM

I think we all knew who the POS spell checker was. and it's even more obvious now.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:06 AM

And we can all tell the IQ queen is posting today.

I can see right through you losers hiding amongst us.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:13 AM

Fares and fairs is not spell checking, idiot. He spelled the word correctly. Oh wait...I must be dave/biff/nokilissa/bxgrl/BTG/whatever. Yeah, because I called polemecist on his dumb statements. So now we have to be subjected to the same garbage you do everyday, 10:06?

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:19 AM

Public transportation requires subsidies -- that is a fact of life. Subsidies to the MTA have eroded over time, they refunded debt in a way that pushed costs off into what at the time was the future (which is now), and their revenue sources fluctuate with the economy.

Plus, they have taken on some big projects like the 2nd Ave subway that have sucked capital money away from bread and butter maintenance projects.

So, this news is no surprise to anyone who has been paying attention.

By the way, the operating costs of New York City Transit, the component of the MTA that runs the subways, are covered to a much larger degree by fares than just about any other transit system in the country.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:27 AM

the MTA should get NO sympathy. there are people at the MTA who make OBSCENE amounts of money. the MTA is ripping off New Yorkers. people should not stand for it!

http://www.cafepress.com/FireMTANow

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:32 AM

All bickering aside-

I'm just disappointed that our transit system's long-overdue repairs are being shelved, instead of increasing them at a time when it would create further incentive to bring people out of their cars. Imagine what progress could've been done if the tax breaks given to Goldman Sachs/Yankee Stadium/Citi Stadium/Atlantic Yards et al were instead placed into our transit infrastructure.

Posted by: gwbrubaker at June 24, 2008 10:33 AM

what -

could you explain your case a little further. I'm genuinely interested in what you are saying, but I'm confused by what point you're making. I'm not familiar with the Case Shiller...

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:33 AM

Hey Daveinbedstuy, your hackneyed blame the unions rant takes the place of a thinking brain. Oh yeah - lets have more of those great upstanding efficient non-union businesses like Enron, Arthur Anderson, Bear Stearns, Halliburton, Tyco, Worldcom etc..

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:33 AM

You didnt only call him on it.. You went on and on and still going. Get a life loser.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:34 AM

I'm going to order a "Fire the MTA" onesie for 10:19... biff, what's your address?

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:35 AM

10:13 It's good to be queen. Thanks! But twasn't moi. It must come as a shock to you but there are others who disagree with polemicist (by the way- notice I used the correct spelling, and apologies to 10:19).

Thanks for presenting the facts 10:27- perhaps if we had invested more wisely in public transportation, and expanded it where they really needed to increase services, we would have less cars,pollution, and traffic problems.
While it's nice for the people in Manhattan to have a 2nd Ave. subway, it was far from the most necessary project. the Bronx and Brooklyn could use a lot more improvemnt.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2008 10:37 AM

What about 4th and 9th? Are they still moving ahead with that???

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:39 AM

Oh! Wait! I misspelled improvement. Just wanted to admit to that before the trolls went nuts.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2008 10:40 AM

Don't worry bxgirl. Nobody really cares what you think one way or another.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:41 AM

10:41...and yet you continue to comment about her posts!!! Odd, ya think?

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2008 10:43 AM

bxgrl= biff

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:47 AM

I cant wait till all the politicians who killed congestion pricing - bitch and moan about this.

Mass Transit needs a steady source of funding (beyond just fares) and congestion pricing would have provided it.

In the end you have to ask - what did y'all expect?

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:51 AM

thanks, dave :-). Now if I could only find the receipts for the plastic surgeon who gave me that sex change operation. I guess 10:47 is investing the fact that both bxgrl and biff begin with "b" with heavy symbolism. Impressive in a Nostradamus-y way, but sadly has no basis in fact.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2008 10:57 AM

I agree with 10:51 in the sense that commmuter taxes and congestion pricing are required. Double the prices on all bridges and tunnels too, and put tolls on "free" bridges like Brooklyn, Manhattan, Willis Ave., 3rd Ave bridges, etc.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 11:01 AM

Nostradamus? Weak reference, at best. I would say the fact that you are a hermaphrodite with a self-reflexive sense of humor would be more Rabelaisian.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 11:03 AM

all of the New Jersey car commuters who worked so hard to kill the congestion pricing plan are laughing right now, the NYC taxpayer is picking up their tab.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 11:05 AM

So sorry bxgrl...it was the "grl" portion that led me to that erronious conclusion!! LOL

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2008 11:12 AM

10:33...i was pointing out large parts of the public sector and WHOLE INDUSTRIES not individual companies. Jack@ss.

Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 24, 2008 11:15 AM

Congestion pricing is a great idea in theory but it would have affected the outer boroughs far more than Manhattan. As anyone can see, the commute from Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx via public transportation is much more difficult and time-consuming. Sometimes almost impossible. Then there was the issue of having trucks pay into it. I'm a big proponent of making business pay their just due, but trucks and vans and business vehicles are necessary. It's not a question of convenience for them. Add to their costs and the consumer will be the one to pay more. Congestion pricing for trucks and delivery vehicles hurts business.

And then they wanted to charge cabs too- as if they aren't expensive enough. But if congestion pricing was to force people to leave their cars home, what alternative were they being given? You're punished if cab prices are higher- even if you took a cab instead of bringing your own car.

Nor did they ever prove the money collected would go to improving public transportation. Bloomberg's plan went down because he never addressed a lot of issues including who would be most hard hit. And that of course is people with lower incomes who need their cars to get to work.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2008 11:15 AM

Ah, but 11:03, the reference was to the other poster. However I love how you defined me! In that vein I must say I look forward to the rest of the day on B'stoner as the Great Perhaps.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2008 11:24 AM

The Great Liar

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 11:39 AM

"Ever notice that the most inefficient businesses and the ones that were always on the verge of bankruptcy were totally unionized...steel, autos, airlines, MTA, post office, etc., etc., etc."

Well let's take the auto industry for a minute. What's their biggest cost - health insurance on their unionized pensioners. That is presently costing GM more than the price of steel for each car. Is this a reflection of poor "efficiency". Hard to see how a retired person has any effect whatsoever on a company's efficiency. Or, might this cost be related to the fact that the United States, unlike EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY IN TEH WORLD has no national health insurance. The Japanese car companies do not need to pay their workers or pensioners health insurance and that saves them over $2000 per car. Jeez, I wonder if this might not be true for the steel industry as well? I wonder if the fact that Chinese workers are paid a few dollars a day might have more to do with the fact that we lost stell jobs as opposed to the workers "inefficiency"?

Morever, in terms of the car industry, who the hell had the great idea of forgoing fuel efficient cars and selling only huge SUVs and Pickups. I bet it was all those lazy Union workers on a lunch break who forced that idea down management's throats.

Posted by: Brooklynnative at June 24, 2008 11:41 AM

Hey, what happened to the i in bxgirl? Now she's bxgrl? What gives? It's also nice to see that he/she knows how to search Wikipedia for Rabelais.... the internet: the great intelligence equalizer.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 11:43 AM

Bloomberg was recently complaining that the MTA is over capacity because rising fuel costs were causing more people to use public transportation. What in heaven's name did he think was going to happen if congestion pricing was passed?

He is useless.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 11:45 AM

I agree with Brooklynnative.

It's sad that the mistakes of one well-intentioned but crappy mayor (Lindsay overpaying unions that held him hostage) have to basically screw the city for decades.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 11:48 AM

Solution:

remove all cars from Manhattan. Turn streets into bike-throughs and rapid bus transit lines. Increase subway/bus fares to $3. Turn non-bus lanes into bike lanes. Double the number of buses. Turn all parking garages into middle-income housing.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 11:51 AM

Forget the MTA... get a scooter already!

Instead of descending into the filthy, crowded, stifling subway tunnels, I commute over the Brooklyn Bridge on my scooter every day, with a big smile on my face.

Posted by: Brouhaha at June 24, 2008 11:52 AM

"Ever notice that the most inefficient businesses and the ones that were always on the verge of bankruptcy were totally unionized...steel, autos, airlines, MTA, post office, etc., etc., etc."

"10:33...i was pointing out large parts of the public sector and WHOLE INDUSTRIES not individual companies. Jack@ss."

According to Dave, the word "businesses" is interchangeable with the phrase "large parts of the public sector and WHOLE INDUSTRIES." He's also quite thin-skinned, it seems.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 11:53 AM

dear bxgrl and 11:48

perhaps you guys should have do your research before making stupid comments about congestion pricing

the money from congestion pricing would have gone towards TRANSIT IMPROVEMENTS, the majority of which would have benefited the outer boroughs.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 11:53 AM

11:43- the internet may be the great intelligence equalizer but it certainly hasn't done much for yours. I proudly confess to using Wiki when I need to although since I did know who Rabelais is, I didn't today. Un like you, who has to use it everyday to look up such basic concepts as "intelligence" "internet" and "equalizer."

Have you considered eating more fish? You know, brain food? Probably wouldn't work, but at least you gave it a shot.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2008 12:01 PM

"the money from congestion pricing would have gone towards TRANSIT IMPROVEMENTS, the majority of which would have benefited the outer boroughs."

That settles it, because I believe EVERYTHING Mike Bloomberg says! He would NEVER lie! He cares about the people.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 12:02 PM

11:53 - if your reading comprehension was as good as you think, you would know that what I said was " Nor did they ever prove the money collected would go to improving public transportation. Bloomberg's plan went down because he never addressed a lot of issues including who would be most hard hit."

They didn't prove to the state's satisfaction that the money would actually go to improvements. Nor did Bloomberg address the impact of congestion pricing on everyone.

Perhaps you should have researched the issue a lot more before you mouth off.

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2008 12:14 PM

bxgirl - you need to seriously mellow out.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 12:21 PM

word get some already.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 12:23 PM

so where exactly did you think he was going to do with the money, if not put it towards transit

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 1:21 PM

May I point out NO ONE has mentioned what these stations are actually like??

They are mostly D and N stops, many outside. On a summer day riding through to the end is rather scenic. Many of the stops have peeling paint and are old but not what I'd call filthy...just dilapidated.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 1:38 PM

Smith and 9th needs some serious help - I always feel like it's going to collapse. Also, why is that entire elevated section basically wrapped in garbage bags? Seems like a bad sign to me.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 1:50 PM

10:33 - "could you explain your case a little further"

I'm not The What but the S&P Case-Shiller Home Price Index tracks the resale value of existing single family homes in major metro areas, like here in New York.

http://tinyurl.com/3cz3kg

Though not apparently correlated to multifamily brownstones, it still reflected them as it shot up 200% for NY Metro since the 90's. Therefore it is directly relevant now as it is now falling.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 2:14 PM

1:21- are you kidding?

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2008 3:34 PM

A lot of original detail was lost from subway stations which already received makeovers. Cancelling these plans doesn't sound like a bad thing at all. The City College station needed cleaning, but had beautiful terra cotta plaques. Many $$ later it looked awful, and, today, the re-do is rusting away and looks even worse.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 3:43 PM

The wrapping of Smith-9th is to contain bits of spalled concrete that could rain down below if the protection were not in place.

Smith-9 should be rehabbed ASAP, and 4 ave/9th st. would benefit from a rehab, which could be beautiful with the restored windows opened up again to look the way it once did...But again, the MTA does the bait and switch...

and god only knows where the money flows.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 3:55 PM

"The wrapping of Smith-9th is to contain bits of spalled concrete that could rain down below if the protection were not in place."

Seriously? That's frightening. I've been living in the area for 12 years, and it has always looked like that as far as I can remember. I always assumed it meant they were getting ready to do some construction, but now it basically looks permanent. That's pretty scary, though.

Of course, you look slightly southward, and they're pouring untold millions (billions?) into the dilapidated Gowanus Expressway/BQE that probably serves a smaller number of people that take the F every day through Smith/9th (of course that hihjway is also terrifying)? One of these days, that elevated track will collapse and then the MTA will really be bankrupt.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 4:04 PM

I think that wrapping has been in place for close to 20 years. they kept saying it was temporary but as you see, still there.

they still seem to be working on Jay St. but Boro Hall, which also has beautiful terra cotta and glazed tile has not been touched ever. Years ago it looked like they were about to begin- but nothing. I always assumed they would keep the original tile work- is that station part of the landmark district or just outside the boundaries?

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2008 4:23 PM

I've read in a few places that the Smith-9 viaduct tarp is indeed there to keep chunks of concrete that breaks away from falling below.

It's really not hard to imagine that this is the case, otherwise the MTA would not have put so much effort into the black tarp "band-aid."

But it seems to me that, sooner rather than later, they should repair it correctly to prevent further decay.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 5:48 PM

Are you having a hard time logging in, Biff/Bhouhaha? :-)

- bxgrl

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 7:25 PM

Well I'm going to comment on the ORIGINAL POST, even though it's a looooooooooooooong way from there to here:

they could start by not giving free metrocards & EZ passes to the MTA board and everyone who's ever been on the MTA board and all of the cops who've ever worked for NYPD. THATS where the money could come from.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 7:31 PM

How about telling City government bigwigs they have to use the subway and buses instead of city cars? And look into the above ground train systems instead of expanding the 2nd ave. subway underground, which means cutting into bedrock?

Posted by: bxgrl at June 24, 2008 8:13 PM

Biffy, where are you?

- bxgrl

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 8:58 PM

Go, Gene, Go!

We should just ditch the fare and pass congestion pricing. It would provide _more_ money for the system than there currently is.

Or, go back down to the $2 fare and pass congestion pricing. We could invest in the system so it can work for another 100 years.

Plus, the system IS underfunded. As a percentage of cost, it is subsidized far less than other systems. (It's a large, 24-hour system in a huge city, so OF COURSE it's a larger absolute amount.)

-karen

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 6:26 AM

« Politicians Speaking Out Against House of D Plan How Bed-Stuy Looks From L.A. »

June 24, 2008

MTA Postponing Rehabs of Many Brooklyn Stations

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