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June 19, 2008
Inside Third & Bond: Week 42
At the GreenBuildingsNY this week at the Javits Center, there is a display of Toto fixtures including a couple of their low water use toilets. One of these toilets is the model we’ve picked for Third & Bond… and that we had installed in our office bathroom about six months ago.
Before we put in 80 dual flush toilets into the project, we wanted to make sure they would work. Dual flush toilets that can provide a satisfactory “little” flush means that we can actually save water, which is the goal of a dual flush toilet. If the “little” flush didn’t complete the job and a second flush was needed for every flush episode then there is little point in having the “little” flush option and the toilets end up as greenwashing. We also wanted to make sure that the “big” flush works when it is needed. And beyond our sustainability goals, we want a toilet that works so that buyers are happy. Can you imagine the calls from 44 new homeowners if their toilets don’t function properly??
We started out by reading the 10th edition of the Maximum Performance (MaP) testing of popular toilet models. The study reviewed upwards of 500 toilets in terms of the number of flushes it took to clear the bowl of soypaste medium made to mimic, well you know, based on a study of the average British male’s well you know.
Then we researched models for look and cost. We settled on the Toto pictured above which has a “little” flush of 0.9 gallons and a “big” flush of 1.6 gallons. So far, the reports from users are very good. This toilet replaced a conventional toilet that often had to be flushed more than once to clear the bowl. Many users report only ever using the “little” flush for the new toilet. (Our other toilets are American Standard models with only the 1.6 gallons per flush.)
We did have some difficulty with the installation. The contractor hadn’t installed a dual flush toilet before and struggled for a bit. We think this had more to do with the size of the bowl than hooking up anything related to the dual flush itself, but he attributed it to the dual flush toilet.
But for those of you who want something more from a toilet, the Toto Washlet was also on display at GreenBuildingsNY. The marketing campaign starts off with a series of naked adult behinds with smiley faces on them and advances quickly to a Happiness pitch…”Welcome to Clean is Happy.” On their website, a pleasant (and fully clothed) woman tells you about the Happiness you can get from the washlet, “What’s ordinarily a pretty ordinary task is turned into an opportunity to refresh yourself, to restore yourself, to pamper yourself every day of your life. Or as Beth W. wrote to us, ‘Warm water, warm air, warm seat. Pretty darn good way to start your day.’ The truth is we all need a little pampering.”
So what does the washlet do to bring you such happiness? It opens its lid when you approach, it has a heated seat, and when you’ve “done what you came to do,” you use the remote control to have warm water sprayed exactly where you need it, warm air gently blown and even clean the existing air. What is this washlet exactly? A fancy toilet seat—and probably not “green” if you consider the extra energy and batteries going into the creation of the happiness experiment. Although you are reducing paper waste… well, we’ll let someone else figure out if there’s any environmental benefit.
Right now we are content to offer what we think is a better toilet than the usual at Third & Bond, the dual flush.
Inside Third & Bond: Week 41 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 40 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 39 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 38 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 37 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 36 [Brownstoner]
From our lawyers: “This is not an offering. No offering can be made until an offering plan is filed with the Department of Law of the State of New York."
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Comments
Toto are the best toilets to come out of Japan...kind of the industry standard/leader. It's a publicly traded company too if you want to invest in them after liking the product.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 19, 2008 11:56 AM
What exactly are you saving the water for?
Posted by: noah at June 19, 2008 11:58 AM
I've spec'd that toilet a lot. I think it's a good one.
"The contractor hadn’t installed a dual flush toilet before and struggled for a bit. We think this had more to do with the size of the bowl than hooking up anything related to the dual flush itself, but he attributed it to the dual flush toilet."
Perhaps you mean the size of the rough. Totos are a bit unconventional, sure, but they are not hard to install.
Posted by: an architect in Brooklyn at June 19, 2008 12:05 PM
Not sure about the "washlet" which i guess is just a built-in bidet. don't like the aesthetics...
i'd rather have a separate bidet and toilet as they usually do in europe. how about that for 3rd + Bond? would be unique.
but toto toilets are really good - they're always recommended by plumbers and supposedly they're less likely to clog up...
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 12:17 PM
this little babe can cope with anything and i mean anything. earlier on i put in a pound of mashed up dundee cake - let's take a look. not a trace - peace of mind im sure, especially if you have elderly relatives.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 12:32 PM
Dudes anything based on what a typical British male does ain't proving anything. Get yourself some contruction workers and some wall street types on Friday morning and see how much of the mail you can move. Word to the wise.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 1:07 PM
1:07 - I agree. We wall street types regularly clog the toilets. Those extravagant meals combined with gratuitous alcohol consumption trigger some pretty massive bowel movements.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 1:16 PM
+++And your little dog, TOO!
~~~Not Toto!
Or the name of the classic 80's band...Ah, Toto.
Frankly, I would like to find a way to get a Clivus Multrum but wonder if anyone in NYC has experience (and can share) with a residential installation. There are installations at the Queens Botanic and some other public sites but I know of no one with one in a home in Brooklyn.
I know people who have them in homes outside NYC.
http://www.clivusmultrum.com/proj_res_hearthouse.shtml
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 1:28 PM
Re 1:07
Mix a typical English breakfast with 12 pints after work(standard English fare) and it will put the toilet to a much greater test than a couple of 'Buds' and a bagel.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 1:32 PM
Yeah baby! The warm spray and blow dry is anilingus - sooo hot. Soon we'll be able to take a poop and then take it in the pooper using one device!
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 1:59 PM
They are saving water because as homeowners, we are charged for water. Unlike renters who can use it all up. We have these toto in our building and other water saving features.
The results? Well, our initial water budget for 32 units was 12,000 per year. The actual bill? about 5,000 per year.
Seems the sponsor and management company didnt really expect to save much and so budgeted as if these were regular and not water saving.
See the diff?
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 2:21 PM
2:21---wow! That is significant savings. The Japanese have had Little and Big flush toilets for as long as I can remember. Not all have the washlet functions. I've always thought it a great idea, and wondered why we didn't do something like that. But I never knew how much could actually be saved. I wonder what the cheapest dual-flush unit is that's sold in the states? Or if AmStan or Kohler could be convinced to make one?
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 2:42 PM
So this bad boy can handle David Kramers massive dumps? WoW! It must be good
FYI
Ive used the john after davie (after leaving a floater) and all I can say is Congrats Dave.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 3:12 PM
I installed a toto dual flush - and the it rocks!!
The thing sucks like a jet engine. I sometimes use the low flow flush for, ahem, #2 - just to see if it works. Never dissapointed. My contractor was a little frustrated when setting the thing up as it has a special assembly. Overall I am very happy with it
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 4:14 PM
Love this loo! We have two in our house and they both work a treat. One of them replaced an American Standard in our rental unit. Tricky rough in was causing all kinds of nasty problems and we wanted something bullet-proof before our first tenant moved in. 8 years later and we've never looked back (or down)!
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 5:52 PM
I have used the Dualmax toilets in NZ, Denmark and the UK, and they are excellent. I think they should expand to the US market as soon as possible.
Posted by: gwbrubaker at June 19, 2008 7:39 PM
Another item that is used throughout the rest of the world but not yet here is the electric shower. This cuts down on hot water energy consumption. I'm sure we'll be seeing more of these in the near future.
Posted by: gwbrubaker at June 19, 2008 7:42 PM
TOTO has one of the funniest, creepiest websites ever for its washlet toilet: http://www.cleanishappy.com
Posted by: madman at June 19, 2008 8:05 PM
THANK YOU for listing the website.
HYSTERICAL!
They spent some real dough on it! Explains the price of the Washlet. Oh, and they even had the money to make sure the woman on the
"Happiness" segment said "whole other" instead of "whole nother". It's kind of like that hideous "Everyday Food" meets your toilet with the addition of some people of color with the Martha Stewart show on PBS lacks...or like the IKEA website with video and the only furnishing being a commode!
The thing that's missing from the Washlet: the button to make the whooshing toilet flushing sound so common in Japanese public restrooms. Maybe you can get the Washlet with the audio features.
FGG
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 8:22 PM
Sorry, read:
"It's kind of like that hideous "Everyday Food" meets your toilet with the addition of some people of color
WHICH the Martha Stewart show on PBS lacks...or like the IKEA website with video and the only furnishing being a commode!"
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 8:28 PM
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