House of the Day: 430 10th Street

Of course they have a shot at it. It's only marked up 55.4% -- a BARGAIN for such a nice looking place.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:32 PM

interior looks good, but a floorplan would have been nice.

What are Rimadisio closets? I guess I can google it...

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:39 PM

oops - realtor spelled the name wrong...

www.rimadesio.it/ing/products/walk-in-closet/

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:43 PM

They're also offering this place as a rental on craigslist for a cool $6400/month...

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/abo/737656743.html

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:44 PM

This place has been lingering for months. We saw it months ago and thought the owner (FSBO) was on crack for asking this price. It's basically a so-so duplex over a very modest rental - a *big* drawback is that there is no separate entrance for owners vs. tenant, so the owners have to feel like they are living in a walk-up apt instead of a nice brownstone (i.e. the kind with stoop). The market has changed since this place first went on the market and it needs a serious price chop if they want to see it move. I say 1.5-1.6 max and even that is generous!

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:48 PM

looks adorable.

given those other selling prices for ps, i would not be surprised at all if they get close to this...

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:49 PM

for that price it's nothing special.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:51 PM

Brownstoner ... ever heard of a max text limit?!?!?!?!?!

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:01 PM

$1.8 million to live in an apartment in an ugly house with no garden access?? (the tenant gets the garden)

This is called drinking the Park Slope kool-aid.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:05 PM

Still don't want to have a character count limit on comments?

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:05 PM

Brooklynnative: Community Activists. More than one I suspect.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:07 PM

Even more interesting is the way Brownstoner will handle this.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:11 PM

The tenant does not get the garden at this house. I've seen it- the garden is very nice and the owner's duplex has full access. I think that a small portion of the garden is seperate for the tenant.
The duplex is not large, but it is really nicely renovated. The rental not so much. I don't think this is priced too badly.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:15 PM

it doesn't really look that cute. it looks renovated and functional, and the kitchen cabinets are nice. but the stairs look kinda janky. and i don't have any personal problem with recessed lighting or granite countertops (have them in my place and think they look great there) but in this home they seem particularly weird. but nice light, nice garden, decent rental and decent location will make this place a pretty easy sell. a couple looking to start a family here and eventually take over the whole place in 5-10 years...

nevertheless, i agree it's overpriced but at the 15% or so that seems common these days. it goes at 1.6, say i.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:16 PM

Gibberish is deleted, Now my comment at 2:11 doesn't make sense.

If only we can eliminate all the gibberish on this site...we'd have 4 posts a thread.

BTW, the house is Blah.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:17 PM

I like this house from the outside. I think they will sell somewhere near asking.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:21 PM

I'm gonna guess that the house next door behind the teee is owned by a polish guy (first generation) or an italian-american (third generation).

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:23 PM

A word limit would be good. That would eliminate the spam problem and the Montrose Morris problem in one fell swoop.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:26 PM

Everyone comes out every week and says this or that is overpriced, and 7 times out of 10, we find out that they got at or above asking price.

ZZZZZZZZZZ

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:32 PM

1,199,999.99.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:35 PM

2:26, the two problems are arguably one in the same :)

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:42 PM

This is overpriced. They think they can get a similar price to 303 13th St. which asked about this amount and sold for about $1.75. Also btw. 5th/6th Aves. I doubt it. I'd say $1.6 tops but probably closer to $1.5...or less.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:45 PM

Whether you're a fsbo or a small-time realtor: hire a professional photographer! The internet is where you make your first sales impression. Don't you think better photos would bring in more customers? You get what you pay for, I guess...

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:52 PM

My $0.02 on this house and Park Slope generally.

For the moment, Park Slope is defying gravity much like Manhattan did for the first two years of the housing bust. Now Manhattan is starting to slow down dramatically but Park Slope keeps drawing buyers (many from Manhattan). That being said, I think there will be a reversal soon. I went to an open house yesterday at 450A 12th Street. Mediocre 2-bedroom with a depressing space in the back that could arguably be called a yard (with the even more depressing sunken concrete area that some people call a sun area or something like that). Asking $1.175. When I checked out Property Shark this morning it turns out the Halstead realtor who showed the place is also the owner. In the corporate finance world, always watch when insiders start selling their stock. In real estate... you get the point.

But that's just an anecdote. The reason I think there will be a reversal soon is that prices are ultimately based on what people can afford. Sometimes there is a bubble for whatever reason (cheap money, foreigners, etc - there is always a reason why people think it's different this time) but ultimately prices will always revert to some multiple of incomes. Right now the Slope is unaffordable for Slopers. So either incomes go up substantially in the Slope (and the neighborhood ends up full of assholes from Manhattan and Park Slope stops being Park Slope) or prices go down. Those are the only options in the long term. In the short term, who knows. Maybe the 10th Street place goes for asking.

On a related topic, mortgage interest rates are still very low, which helps keep prices high. Many people in the finance world believe that inflationary pressure will force the Fed to raise interest rates substantially, and soon. Consider the effect of 8.5% mortgage rates on the market instead of the 6-7% rates posters keep mentioning.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:53 PM

"Montrose Morris problem ..."

hahahahahah!

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:57 PM

I'm with The What here. The economy sucks, etc.

This will be worth 1.1-1.2 a year from now. How much they get for it today? 1.8? 1.5? I have no idea.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:58 PM

$6400 is a ridiculous rent for this place. But it's still much cheaper than the purchase price, tax subsidies and all.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:15 PM

"Right now the Slope is unaffordable for Slopers. So either incomes go up substantially in the Slope (and the neighborhood ends up full of assholes from Manhattan and Park Slope stops being Park Slope) or prices go down."

Yes! All people from Manhattan are assh*les! Soak the rich! Viva la Co-Op Revolution!

Now get back to your cubicle 2:53 before I fire your ass and you have to go freelance again.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:17 PM

"When I checked out Property Shark this morning it turns out the Halstead realtor who showed the place is also the owner. In the corporate finance world, always watch when insiders start selling their stock. In real estate... you get the point."

And since I know said realtor, another property has already been bought.

So tell us again your great theories oh Mr. wise one...

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:24 PM

totally agree with 2:53. I really have no idea what's going on in PS that would justify a 50% increase in the price of a house over a 3 year period when financing has become far tighter and the general market is softening. I've given up trying to understand it, and I've also given up the idea of trying to buy in PS for the moment. If ever there were a bubble, this is it. Not bitter (we are just going to buy elsewhere), but completely mystified by where all the money propping up this market continues to come from, and more to the point, why.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:29 PM

3:00 -- 2:53 here. It's not about where you are born or where you grew up. In my humble opinion, compared to Slopers, Manhattanites tend to be hypercompetitive and status-obsessed. Too many hedge fund managers on one island. The Slope is full of hippy-dippy people who fit every stereotype in the Stuff White People Like blog. Slopers always seem a little bit stoned. It's part of their charm. If only investment bankers and hedge fund managers can afford Slope real estate in a few years, then the Slope will be full of investment bankers and hedge fund managers. There's nothing that can be done about it other than to stand back and watch the invisible hand at work. But many of the people who are coming here from Manhattan may end up disappointed that they tried to buy the charm of Park Slope and just ended up with a less conveniently located Manhattan. In the meantime, groovy Slopers who can't afford the real estate will go somewhere else, and some other neighborhood will be the next Park Slope. And so it goes.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:29 PM

"If ever there were a bubble, this is it. Not bitter (we are just going to buy elsewhere), but completely mystified by where all the money propping up this market continues to come from, and more to the point, why."

I think you've mistaken the heightened desirabilty of a neighborhood which has been talked about incessantly in the press (strollers, milfs, dilfs, union hall, 5th ave, new sex and the city show, babeland, etc.) for a bubble.

The bubble has burst. But that does not mean that every area suffers. Beverly Hills, Downtown LA, and West Hollywood are doing just fine amidst the LA downturn. There are always neighborhoods which are less affected than others.

Some people don't want to admit that PS may be one of those here in NYC. It will be affected at some point of course, but the neighborhood has catapulted from a nice, quiet place 10 years ago to what it is now...a neighborhood constantly scrutinized by the media and flocked to by Manhattanites and Europeans.

Keep in mind that Park Slope and some of these other Brownstone neighborhoods have done a 360 in the last 10-15 years. Some of this may have been due to a bubble, but a large chunk of it has to do with the fact that these neighborhoods are incredibly rejuvenated compared to what they once were. 5th Ave 10 years ago was a dump, and now it's one of thes nicest shopping/restaurant/barhopping places in Brooklyn. That will have an affect on prices in the neighborhood...

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:53 PM

"Slopers always seem a little bit stoned."

Because WE ARE!!!

My herb guy said that he has more clients in Park Dope than any other in Brooklyn...

Not a shocker, I'm sure you'll find.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:00 PM

"But many of the people who are coming here from Manhattan may end up disappointed that they tried to buy the charm of Park Slope and just ended up with a less conveniently located Manhattan. In the meantime, groovy Slopers who can't afford the real estate will go somewhere else, and some other neighborhood will be the next Park Slope. And so it goes."

I think a huge part of the charm of Park Slope lies in it's architectural beauty, the handsome blocks, the park and the cozy yet urban feeling cloaked in a canopy of trees.

Sure, the people are important too, but I'm there mainly for the beautiful neighborhood. That isn't going to change anytime soon.

If people choose where to live based solely on the neighborhood folk, no one would want to live on the UES or Brooklyn Heights.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:02 PM

honestly, the most competitive people in the world are park slope parents.

signed, a PS parent

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:08 PM

ah, the reappearance of the "Manhattan Hedge Fund" bogey man. Love it.

Yes friends, when I'm not driving up the price of your gasoline by speculating in the crude oil markets, I'm hard at work changing the "feel" of your neighborhood.

If only you knew the secret handshake, I could tell you so much more ...

- a hedge fund manager

(just kidding, I work in the arts)

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:09 PM

Still not even in a recession:

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/business/business-usa-economy.html

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:12 PM

4:00/4:02 (I'm assuming you're one and the same), no one is arguing that the Slope isn't charming, desirable, and much nicer than it was 10 years ago. Sure, it's a great place to live, whether it's full of investment bankers or not. But you miss the question of affordability. Yes, if you bought in the nabe a while ago, and plan to stay, this is probably a non-issue for you. But in order for prices to keep going up as they have been, other people have to be able to afford to live there too. And right now that group is getting smaller and smaller, and at the same time the alternatives (including in Manhattan) are getting less expensive relative to Park Slope. I don't think you will see anywhere else in the US where someone would demand a price increase of more than 50% over 2005-2008, for a small and not that lovely house. Really now. Watch and wait.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:13 PM

"Keep in mind that Park Slope and some of these other Brownstone neighborhoods have done a 360 in the last 10-15 years."

dude, I think you mean a 180. maybe you're a stoned park sloper but please don't use the maths if you don't have the know-how.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:14 PM

4:02 -- Original poster here. I strongly disagree. Park Slope has had beautiful architecture and trees and a park for a great many years, and the neighborhood has been through a few cycles. The people change. The brownstones don't (except for when the people renovate them). The Slope is hot right now because of the humans who live here. Get rid of all of the hippy dippy stroller mommy coop shopping hipster chuck taylor wearing Union Hall drinking wannabe activist Volvo driving Slopers and you get rid of all the reasons the neighborhood is hot right now. The problem is, prices are moving out of the affordability range for those people. Park Slope is, in effect, an unstable isotope, doomed by its own success.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:24 PM

"Park Slope and some of these other Brownstone neighborhoods have done a 360 in the last 10-15 years."

They've done a 180. When you hit 360 is when you worry.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:26 PM

Yeah, 180. One too many hits off the old bong today.

"at the same time the alternatives (including in Manhattan) are getting less expensive relative to Park Slope."

Anything comparable to this house in Manhattan would be at least double, if not triple this price.

The house I used to rent a 1 bedroom in on the UWS, just recently sold for 8 million dollars. And it was carved up into apartments and needed work.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:32 PM

I have lived in Brooklyn for 26 years and had friends with houses liek this (and some nicer). They were always small, dark and cramped to me -- like the house I grew up in -- a house of a working class family. And now, you need to have a million dollare for a downpayment and an income of $500K/yr to live in one. I do no get it. Yes, PS is a great neighborhood but it was when these houses had cops, firemen and teachers living in them too. These houses are "charming" for what they are -- which is not multi-million-dollar real estate.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:39 PM

"Park Slope is, in effect, an unstable isotope, doomed by its own success."

I would say the opposite. And if that is the case, is the West Village 10 years post doom? If so, it's still one of the most glorious neighborhoods in any U.S. city, in my opinion.

The infusion of wealth into Park Slope has made it more stable than ever. People who spend 2-3 million dollars on a house are less likely to allow the neighborhood to revert back to the once seedy character than "artists" spending 200K on a house.

While the character of the residents may be changing slightly, I do not agree that Park Slope is unstable.

Now some of the residents...that's debatable.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:42 PM

ok 4:32, I was not arguing that Manhattan is cheaper than park slope (though parts of it are certainly comparable at this point, especially for rents). I was arguing that your $8 million UWS house would most likely not have gone for $5 million 3 years ago - it's the breathtaking increases that sellers continue to demand (and buyers continue to pay in many cases) in Park Slope and other areas of Brooklyn that seem so out-of-whack with the rest of the world. The disparity between Park Slope and Manhattan prices is disappearing, and also prices in other alternative areas including near suburbs, Queens, etc. are going down, just as prices are beginning to do in Manhattan. So unless a buyer is absolutely set on Brooklyn, and has extremely deep pockets, that buyer is now likelier to consider some of the alternatives. which then has a knock-on impact on prices.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:44 PM

people pay for PS for the park, architecture and amenities - not the people. In any case, I think the manhattanites and the hippies are basically the same people. The hippies are not really "hippies" - they're just drippy people who dress badly and are relatively humorless. There are plenty of those on the UWS - which is where the PS hordes are coming from.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:56 PM

I have to speak up for Montrose Morris -- I love her comments and always find them thoughtful. The snide commenters are inappropriate.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:59 PM

I think Brooklyn's name, cache and brand right now are super hot. I mention Brooklyn to people who live outside of NYC and what once got me looks of bewilderment, now get remarks of envy.

When did this all change?

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:00 PM

Anything comparable to this house in Baltimore would be at most half, if not one third this price.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:06 PM

Wow, some of the most intelligent comments/debate on Park Slope I've seen in awhile on bstoner. Though that statement is likely to doom this thread to the usual anti-PS rhetoric.

Anyhow, I'm a bstone owner, have lived in the Slope off and on for 20 years. I think PS is a great alignment of numerous factors:

- the hippy-dippy people, who ad a certain charm and keep the bankers in check.
- the influx of Manhattanites which bring certain standards and tastes for the finer things with them, and so the high-end entertainment and services naturally follow which I see as a benefit (even if not all of you do).
- the beauty of the architecture which was always there.
- the neighborhood activism which also was always there.
- the transportation network; much as you might malign the F-train, its worked well for me and there are plenty of alternatives
- the proximity to attractions like Prospect Park, BAM, museum, etc.
- the diversity, which IMO is still remarkable given the socio-economic realities. Find me another upper-middle-class nabe with a bigger cross section of people by income, race, gender-pref, age, etc. It may be dominated by yuppy stroller-moms in the media, but that is hardly the reality on the street. And I will concede that maybe the buyers are no longer a very diverse profile given today's prices, but the overall PS experience (the people you encounter in everyday life, on the street, in the Park, in the restaurants and bars) are a pretty interesting mix. And I say this as a minority myself who happily feels quite welcome and comfortable in PS, whereas I definately don't always feel the luv in many parts of Manhattan or Bklyn for that matter.

It was always a popular nabe, but all the more so now because its reached a critical mass of services and conveniences to attract an even broader audience of buyers, renters, and gawkers/tourists. It's arrived if you will. Half way around the world, people know of Park Slope.

I'm sure prices will recede some over the next year or two, given the city's Wall st based economy, but I think the long term outlook is quite extraordinary. It's a matter of supply and demand. There's nowhere to build except the fringe (i.e. 4th Ave), yet the popularity will keeping going up over time. Whether you appreciate what it has to offer or not, its relatively unique, which part of what defines every successful brand.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:11 PM

4:42 -- original poster here -- the West Village is fine, but it is a very different place from what it used to be before it cost $10 million for a house. Park Slope will be different if current trends continue. It's not going to implode or anything, it just will no longer be what it is now. So many groovy people coalescing in one place is an inherently unstable environment. There's nothing inherently wrong with Park Slope becoming Manhattan (apart from an increased ratio of assholes per square foot). Just pointing out the trend.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:15 PM

I happen to think that Park Slope HAS done a 360 in the last 10 years.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:16 PM

"I mention Brooklyn to people who live outside of NYC and what once got me looks of bewilderment, now get remarks of envy."

Nos sure where you're getting the envy, but mostly I still get the bewilderment reaction. Which I much prefer.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:32 PM

I was in South America a few weeks ago and told some people I met there that I was from Brooklyn -- they threw a parade for me!

I was carried down the road by a group of teenagers as old ladies cried and threw flowers in my path. Obviously, they too want to live in Park Slope. A damn shame it isn't large enough to accommodate everyone; only we lucky few!

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:51 PM

"But that does not mean that every area suffers."

Yes it does.

"Beverly Hills, Downtown LA, and West Hollywood are doing just fine amidst the LA downturn."

Tell that to Ed McMahon.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 6:35 PM

SF is pretty, too. Prettier than PS, actually, and the restaurants are a lot better. Here is what one prominent economist just wrote about SF:

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_meltdown_lowdown_062708

"And the Bubble Keeps on Bursting

"The new Case-Shiller housing data showed that prices kept plummeting in April. Real house prices in the 20-city index were falling at close to a 26 percent annual rate over the months from January to April. Since their peak in the summer of 2006, real house prices have dropped by more than 23 percent. This means that we're probably a bit more than halfway to the bottom of the bubble.

"Prices in the most rapidly deflating markets are dropping much faster. In the last three months, real house prices in Phoenix, San Francisco and Miami have all fallen at close to a 40 percent annual rate. The implications of this rate of price decline are incredible.

"Imagine you had paid off 20 percent of a mid-priced home in the San Francisco area as of January. This would have given you approximately $136,000 in equity on a $680,000 home. Three months later, that home is $597,000 and your equity stake is down to $53,000. In three more months at this rate, you will be underwater. Such are the joys of home ownership in a collapsing bubble.

"Of course, it is not gloomy for everyone. Imagine that you are a wise renter who was thinking of buying a mid-priced home in the SF area. You are now $83,000 richer as a result of your decision to wait. That's not bad -- you get almost $28,000 a month for not buying."

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 6:41 PM

me too!

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 7:52 PM

how does all of this nonsense relate to a house for sale?

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 8:15 PM

However nice PS may be, not every house is a gold mine - check out the brokers and you will see that even PS has overreached and is experiencing price cuts. There's a big difference between the choice properties a la Jennifer Connelly mansion and this very pedestrian house on a so-so block. Overpriced is overpriced and this will never fetch this price. It didn't get it when it first went on the market months ago and now that things are just getting worse, it won't get it now. I don't care "hot" PS is, this seller is just plain unrealistic as are quite a few in the area... Only the truly top properties can fetch top dollar. And really, given this house was bought for 1.2 recently, this owner should be happy to get 1.5 now!!

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 10:17 PM

I mention I live in Brooklyn to my friends and people I work with out of state and they ask if I have ever been mugged and if those burned out buildings they see on TV are really there. Then I tell them how much my rent is on my 600 sq ft apt and they actually laugh out loud until I tell them what a ghetto house costs. Then they say they though people up here were stupid before but just didn't realize how much. I can't wait to move.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 10:34 PM

7.13 - it seems to me that if you're a high school dropout with a Coco-the-gorilla's grasp of vocabulary then NYC realtor is the perfect job to make the big bucks.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 9:02 AM

10:34, don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 10:59 AM

10:34, do your friends even have an education? Do they live in caves?

I don't know one single person in this entire country with a college degree and a half decent job who not only knows exactly what it costs to live in NYC, but doesn't think it's that bad because the big cities they live in too aren't exactly cheap either.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 11:46 AM

yo what are you people?????? amazing opinions!!!!!! so many people with such knowledge and understanding of the real estate market, brooklyn, its natives and its destroyers....i wish i knew half as much as one person on here!!!!!!!!!

goooooo team wisconsin!!!!!!! forget it....we are all leaving!!!! the borough is yours!!!!! wisconsin here we come!!!!!!!

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 4:19 PM