House of the Day: 712 Degraw Street

"a doubling in price in the last 5 years doesn't sound crazy"---mr. b, please pass whatever you are smoking my way.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:43 PM

"a doubling in price in the last 5 years doesn't sound crazy" is this a joke?

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:45 PM

"a doubling in price in the last 5 years doesn't sound crazy"

And this, dear readers, sums up the bubble mentality so perfectly that I first mistook it for sarcasm.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:46 PM

"a doubling in price in the last 5 years doesn't sound crazy"

HA HA....now that's funny!

That comment is CRAZY!

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:47 PM

Corcoran listing on same block, renovated top to bottom and in mind condition, is in contract for high 1.3's. This place is WAY overpriced.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:49 PM

The fact is that doubling in price in five years is very normal for this market - at least it was last summer. This summer is hopefully going to see the rapid end of that trend.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:50 PM

"a doubling in price in the last 5 years doesn't sound crazy"

If you can why not. That's the game!
What are the nabe comps... 1.5 and up?

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:50 PM

Forget the house...all the comments should be about the 'doubling in price' comment.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:52 PM

"The fact is that doubling in price in five years is very normal for this market"

Change "is" to "was". Bubble done gone, Kimosabe.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:53 PM

Wow! Four consecutive comments about the craziness of doubled RE prices. Blogger sentiment sure has changed. Oh well, the stock market still looks healthy today. Oh wait...!!!

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:53 PM

I'm with you 1:43. People expecting to get double what they paid for a house is what has us in the mess we are in now . That is not how Real Estate should work. Just because it did in the last few years does not mean that it was the norm. It should take about 20 years for a double or more return in a healthy, normal market, not 5 years. Either you don't know what you are talking about or you are just insane. Using your math, a starter home in the year 2012 should be about 10mil.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:54 PM

The Corcoran house was part of a OH on this blog: http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/05/open_house_pick_184.php

Here also the link to the corcoran site: http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1221257

If the house needs some work not sure how you can justify $1.395!

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:57 PM

"very normal for this market"

But very ABnormal for the market HISTORICALLY. Here comes the flagpole of mean reversion. And with the price of oil these days, vaseline is not an option.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 1:57 PM

Lack of interior photos usually means lots of work, esp if no mention of improvements. At very convervative 200 psf, this house will cost 400K min to renovate. They'd be lucky to get 900K. Party days are over folks, buyers are not gonna bite for overpriced cr*p.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:02 PM

"It should take about 20 years for a double or more return in a healthy, normal market"

Nominally, but not really. Historically, even in NYC, RE has gone up with the historical average rate of inflation.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:02 PM

1:50 - best comp is recent Corcoran sale a few doors down, listed above (in contract). If that went under ask and was only asking 1.395 and was a completely renovated house in perfect condition, there is absolutly NO justification for this house property since it probably needs tons of work. Plus, market sentiment is shifting so that affects comps, which go down in weakening/falling market.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:05 PM

Doubling in 5 years is a 14.8% per year increase, retards.

The average return of the stock market with dividends is about 9%.

So, yes, 14.8% is not sustainable (normal is more like 6% - 8%) but it's not like it "doubled" in a year.

- Math Wiz

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:07 PM

Also, this house is a piece of crap and overpriced by at least $250,000+.

- Math Wiz

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:09 PM

thanks 2:05 i think the seller added a little haggle room in the price. let's see what happens. PS is on fire.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:09 PM

what's the beef about a property "doubling in price in the last 5 years doesn't sound crazy." we recently sold our co-op for way more than double in just a little under 5 years, and after the first open house too. it's not crazy.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:12 PM

Market is changing more and more with each passing day, so I would not gauge future even by sales this past spring. Things are changing direction, this house will never sell at anything close to this price.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:23 PM

OMG doubling in price every 2 years! I'm quitting my job and just buying up all the empty houses in Brooklyn and in 5 years I can be a trillionaire. I'm sure that when I present this business plan to the banks they will be more than willing to lend me whatever I want - probably with nothing at all down since in 5 years they will all be worth twice what I gave for them. Geez Louise I'm signing off for now and running to the bank! BBL

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:25 PM

Historical context, 2:12. Historical context.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:25 PM

Oops I meant 5 years! Gotta go - already have my printout of this article to take with me to the loan officer! Laters!

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:27 PM

idiot at 2:25, it's the same historical context. saying it twice doesn't make your comment any less stupid.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:29 PM

im giving brownstoner the benefit of the doubt, and that he didnt mean he agrees that it makes sense for housing to have doubled in 5yrs, but rather the fact is that they did, and thats why the seller is asking for 2x as much. the term "it makes sense" is misleading (to me).

now lets go back to bashing the price and absense of interior pix. which will rile people up so much they'll all show up to the open house.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:31 PM

wait a minute, is degraw b/w 4th and 5th where all the new construction or bland looking old construction is? this stretch might be one of the fugliest blocks in PS!

can we have a 'brooklyn's fugliest block' contest? maybe "trashy garden of the day" post?

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:33 PM

I'm DYING to know what happened with Jennifer Connelly's place!

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:40 PM

The sale of the Connelly house is going to send the 2008 Park Slope median house price THROUGH THE ROOF.

If that place is already sold in less than 2 months, you have to figure it got close to the 8.5 million dollar asking price.

Bstoner, can you find out more info on that and report back???

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:42 PM

http://www.sothebyshomes.com/nyc/sales/0134264

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:43 PM

"The sale of the Connelly house is going to send the 2008 Park Slope median house price THROUGH THE ROOF."

Why?

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:45 PM

z....yes...i realized that median was the incorrect term.

that was a FAST sale though, for such an expensive property. a lot of times homes that expensive linger for months or years.

will be very interesting to find out the selling price.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:49 PM

Well, if the huge and luxuriously appointed mansion on the park sold for a high price, I'll gladly pay over asking price for this sad little townhouse on one of the saddest blocks in Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:51 PM

Between the 2008 sales of the Connelly house and the 5.75 million Prospect Park co-op highlighted here recently, the averages for Park Slope will be skewed a tad, just as they are for Manhattan with regard to 15 Central Park West and the Plaza...

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:51 PM

This block blows.
Seriously...
One of the worst.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:55 PM

"The 5,200-square-foot house, which the couple bought for $3,700,000 back in 2003, has to be the nicest house to come to market in a looooong time."

So if they get 8.5 million, this will indeed show that the Brooklyn market has not quite tanked yet.

Btw, it went on the market May 1st or so, so it wasn't even for sale for 2 months.

I thought no one could get a mortgage anymore?

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 2:57 PM

Other posters beat me to it...but in all earnestness, what they hell are you thinking Brownstoner? A price double in 5 years is not a normal occurrence, that is some sad and revealing commentary. When was your buy-in? I'f you're not remorseful yet, wait a year when Clinton Hill brownstones are fetching closer to $800k.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:02 PM

i know we don't know the selling price yet on the connelly place, but the fact that it sold already leads me to believe that most of you calling for brooklyn prices to drop any significant amount (at least in prime areas) is a bunch of hogwash.

i hope people who are looking to buy don't take your advice and wait. i don't believe prices in park slope are going to come down more than around 10% (which may have already happened). i still see very little inventory and selling prices which are shocking. 3 bedrooms for 1.4 million, hear about studios for 350K and 1 bedrooms getting into bidding wars.

the only stuff i see sitting is the crap on 4th and a few overpriced houses on 3rd. other than that, i don't see the huge drop in prices that everyone has now been predicting since 2006.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:03 PM

I heard that Jennifer Connelly is going to buy this place and double-down again.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:04 PM

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeqrguz/housingbubble/new_york.html

A doubling in price five years IS crazy and unsustainable. What Bstoner presumably was thinking is that was not unusual for a price to double in 5 years during the bubble years. If you look at median prices 1998-2006 they doubled in any 5 year period. Pre-bubble, price changes have been more consistent with inflation, which has generally been in the 2-5% range over the last 20 years.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:09 PM

3:07, it was also said about 100 times that no one would pay 8.5 million dollars for a house in Park Slope, when one could be had for less in Manhattan (including the Tribeca place JC bought for 7 million).

So I'm not sure you can go by the usual stereotypes, since it seems some people do like Brooklyn enough to spend more here than what they could get in Manhattan.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:11 PM

Jennifer Connelly will be worthless once AY is built.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:11 PM

Doubling every 5 years this house will be worth:

$22,320,000.00

in 20 years.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:13 PM

I think that given all the talk from The What and others around here that NO ONE is able to get a mortgage, that no one is buying homes, etc that the 8.5 million dollar sale DOES mean something, actually. When you figure that another place a block away just sold for over 5 million, it appears that there are people who are wanting to invest SERIOUS money in Brooklyn. And that is a great sign, if you ask me...

When the dark days of the 80's and 90's were here, you couldn't give away homes in Brooklyn, and now they are getting this kind of money? I'd say that means something. It means a lot, actually.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:13 PM

Since 1999, gas has gone from an average price of $1.00 a gallon to now over $4.00 a gallon.

It's not as if home prices are the only thing to double in a short amount of time.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:15 PM

The On Prospect Park places will close in 2008 as will those super pricey units at The Vermeil.

Parts of Brooklyn might be in for a banner year.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:16 PM

you idiots
this will sell in a heartbeat

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:17 PM

This house sucks Brownstoner...Please pass the blunt to your right.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:27 PM

mmm....blunt....

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:29 PM

3:17 - why would this sell in a heartbeat when it took Corcoran 2 months to sell a much nicer house on same block asking same price, and the house did not get the ask? Granted 2 months is not a long time, but the house in question was beautifully renovated, whereas this one looks like a nightmare. And why so vitiolic, calling everyone "idiots" - this kind of language smacks of fear/anxiety/anger that market is changing.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:47 PM

In looking at Degraw Corcoran listing, just noticed Corcoran trimmed more $ off of one of its 3rd house listings, as well as a house on PPW. Keep those price cuts coming!

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:09 PM

Corcoran also shaved $50K off 106 Lincoln, though hardly enough to make a difference. They should borrow a page from Corcoran's 12th St house playbook. If you want something to move, trim at least 200K and then maybe you'll get some action.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:11 PM

There's a GORGEOUS co-op for sale at 210 Berkeley Place on the "c word" site. I would buy it in a second if I were in the market. Garden Floor place...

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:18 PM

I thought "C" word was "changing" as in market is changing. Something a lot of sellers/brokers clearly don't want to hear - hence all the angry comments and vociferous denial whenever this discussion comes up.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:23 PM

"penthouse floor-thru"--This would be just perfect for some type of playboy.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:32 PM

Won't some people need to sell who were counting on their stock portfolio to buffer their retirement? Dow is looking painful, with more pain ahead...

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:35 PM

I don't see why everyone's jumping on Brownstoner for stating an objective fact about what the whole Brooklyn market *has* demonstrably done in the last five years. Whether you like it or not, prices have doubled--actually in less than five years--in Park Slope, Clinton Hill, Bed Stuy, Brooklyn Heights--you name it.

If you think it's *all* crazy, fine. But clearly what Brownstoner meant is that it's in line with appreciation in the surrounding area.

Recall the Recent Sale from a couple weeks ago on 10th Street, a house much like this one on a worse block. It sold a few years ago for $700k. When it was a HOTD, tons of commenters said there was no way it would sell for more than $1.05M, maybe less. It went for $1.35M.

What did you want Brownstoner to say? "This house is in line with the rest of the market--and I both reject and denounce it!"

Oh, before you say it, yes, I am a broker, and also the seller of the house, and an anxious owner who just bought who is trying to prop up the market, and a member of the Trilateral Commission, and I am currently hovering over your home in a black helicopter.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:35 PM

wow. connelly gave the brokers something to hump for months. this house is basically the cpw of brooklyn. totally irrelevant when discussing normal price levels for typical housing stock. there was an actual sale listing yesterday here of a 3br that sold for the same price this year that the buyer paid last year. that is an actual loss when you factor in interest, closing costs and inflation/repairs. connelly house changes nothing.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:37 PM

S&P down 20% in a year. some stock prices have decline by 40-80% in a year, so i guess housing will see the same...

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:39 PM

The retail market in Brooklyn is still growing, despite the economic downturn, and more national and regional retailers are looking for space in the borough, according to a report by Marcus and Millichap. About 750,000 square feet of retail space is expected to be delivered this year, compared to 192,000 square feet last year. The median price in multi-tenant properties has grown 11 percent over the past year to $267 per square foot, compared with a 4 percent growth in the previous year. Marcus and Millichap expects the year to end at 4.7 percent vacancy, and the average asking rent to increase 9 percent, with even higher increases for national tenants seeking leases. TRD

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:45 PM

don't worry 4:45, all the closed down broker offices will correct the imbalance.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:48 PM

"there was an actual sale listing yesterday here of a 3br that sold for the same price this year that the buyer paid last year"

Actually that turned out to not be true. It sold for closer to 1.599 million.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:48 PM

"don't worry 4:45, all the closed down broker offices will correct the imbalance."

Brown Harris Stevens is doubling the size of it's 7th Ave and Union Street office, and Corcoran is opening up shop where the Tea Lounge is closing on 7th Ave.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:50 PM

The Dow Jones Industrial Average tumbled more than 350 points in a broad-based selloff that pushed the shares of some household names to lows not seen in 10 years or more. Bank, auto, consumer discretionary and technology stocks were among the session's biggest decliners. General Motors dropped to its lowest mark in more than 50 years. The Nasdaq dropped 3.3% and the S&P 500 declined 2.9%.

Stocks were also swamped by a big rally in crude-oil prices, which surged $5.09 per barrel, or 3.8%, to settle at $139.64, a new record closing high. Crude, which is more than double its level of a year ago, reached an intraday high of $140.39 a barrel.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:50 PM

the whole brokers going out of work thing is stupid. if the sales market is tanking (which it's not here right now) it only means the rental market will be booming. people have to live somewhere...

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:51 PM

With gas prices going this way, are people REALLY moving to the burbs these days???

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:52 PM

ok 4:50, i guess i better buy now or be priced out forever. whatever.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:52 PM

I was going to move to the burbs, but with prices coming down in Brooklyn finally (and more to come), I am going to stick it out.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:55 PM

good for you, 4:55. we welcome you.

prices come down a bit will be the best thing possible for brooklyn. it will allow some people, who would have otherwise been forced out to have the chance to stay.

i think that's great. and i'm a homeowner.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:57 PM

"ok 4:50, i guess i better buy now or be priced out forever. whatever."

I can say with relative certainty, that you were probably priced out about 10 years ago.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 4:58 PM

do you think that realtors & sellers are overpricing on purpose? It is very easy to see that all potential buyers think that they are all going to get great deals and a lot off asking price.

So there may be a strategy to purposely overprice to make the buyer feel like they are ggetting a deal while you are actually getting more than you wanted?

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 5:04 PM

"I can say with relative certainty, that you were probably priced out about 10 years ago."

I can say with relative certainty, that you will be waiting tables at a tgi fridays in a year.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 5:05 PM

Yes, I think realtors/sellers are overpricing - mainly because they're terrified they won't get ask so they price high to begin with. But, as the numerous recent price at Corcoran show, the strategy is not working. The economy is in a rough patch, layoffs in NYC are happening left and right, and plenty of people would rather rent right now than buy something overpriced when a correction is so clearly on its way, and just beginning. Prices are still sky-high, but starting to come down...

By the way, where is the evidence that the 3BR yesterday sold for 1.599? I thought Brownstoner saw the actual recorded deed showing it sold for 1.4.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 5:13 PM

5:13 here, meant to say "numerous recent price *cuts*" at Corcoran. Read em and weep (or rejoice, depending on your perspective).

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 5:16 PM

"I can say with relative certainty, that you will be waiting tables at a tgi fridays in a year."

I'm a tenured professor. I only wish they'd let me out of here that soon...

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 5:17 PM

"By the way, where is the evidence that the 3BR yesterday sold for 1.599? I thought Brownstoner saw the actual recorded deed showing it sold for 1.4."

Let's see it then.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 5:19 PM

I hanker for a hunk of cheese.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 5:34 PM

"I was going to move to the burbs, but with prices coming down in Brooklyn finally (and more to come), I am going to stick it out."

Good things come to those who wait. The hidden costs of living in the burbs (taxes, transportation, etc.) make up the difference.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 5:45 PM

"With gas prices going this way, are people REALLY moving to the burbs these days???"

No. They're falling for the whole "URBANIZATION" hype. Sheep.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 5:48 PM

Brownstoner, can you please furnish link to closing price of the 3BR from yesterday? Thanks

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 5:51 PM

Prices are only up 92% in the past 5 years in my neighborhood. So don't give me this "doubling" hyperbole.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 5:53 PM

"Won't some people need to sell who were counting on their stock portfolio to buffer their retirement? Dow is looking painful, with more pain ahead..."

Inevitably. Single file line please. No pushing, no cutting boys and girls.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 6:01 PM

This is so worthless, Mr Brownstoner what is the point of showing this house. No Pictures No Nothing, Are you getting paid to show this?

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 6:09 PM

"Since 1999, gas has gone from an average price of $1.00 a gallon to now over $4.00 a gallon.

It's not as if home prices are the only thing to double in a short amount of time."

It was the FIRST thing to double in a short amount of time. Since 2001, housing WAS the economy. That's where all this hyperinflation came from. Now it's in deflation mode and will take oil and everything else with it. The only thing set to expand is the value of the dollar as the money supply contracts (higher interest rates, fewer loans).

Unless they find another asset class to blow...quickly. Green tech, alternative fuels?

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 6:13 PM

"Prices are only up 92% in the past 5 years in my neighborhood. So don't give me this "doubling" hyperbole."

Study percentages.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 6:14 PM

The 3-br from yesterday was all a mistake by brownstoner. It didn't recently sell. Which is why it looked like it re-sold for the same price. When in fact it was just reporting last year's sale.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 6:18 PM

100 so there!

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 6:45 PM

Oh yes, everyone I know in the burbs are just dying to move to the ghetto, live with 3 other families, and have a 5000/month mortgage. Thats a LOT cheaper than 450/month in gas. People are just lining up to move here for that reason. Are you people really that dumb?

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 6:45 PM

3:15 - and no worries since incomes have also doubled. Oh wait!

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 6:58 PM

"I can say with relative certainty, that you will be waiting tables at a tgi fridays in a year."

I can say with relative certainty, that you will be not drinking a beer at Mooney's on Flatbush in a year. Sad but true.

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 6:58 PM

ha!

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 7:10 PM

good. mooney's is a PIT!

Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 7:21 PM

i love me my dives, but mooney's offers neither dive charm nor anything worthy of even a $3 drink. ick.

Posted by: guest at June 27, 2008 12:17 AM

6.14 study vocabulary, specifically "sarcasm"

Posted by: guest at June 27, 2008 8:18 AM

Good for you Mamacita. If you've got the money and are looking for a home, good on ya and God bless.

Posted by: guest at June 27, 2008 1:57 PM

ATTN: douchebag RE speculators, you had your 10-year run, time to find another bubble to inflate.

Bye bye!!

Posted by: guest at June 27, 2008 4:14 PM

Well I checked out the place and was underwhelmed. Odd positioning of rooms and bathrooms (bathroom has a window opening to the kitchen! Hi Honey pass me a sandwich will ya, I'm on the can)
The hallway leading to the 3rd floor rental is awkward and makes the 2nd floor of the duplex very narrow. Upstairs bathroom is the size of a closet. The kitchen is tiny as well.

All in all it's not worth the current price. Maybe with a one family conversion it would work but as is it's sliced up in a way that doesn't flow. Needs a good amount of work on the 3rd floor..

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:12 PM