House of the Day: 241 Carroll Street

Keep on dreaming!

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 1:40 PM

I couldn't agree more. I've been in the market for a place for a few months and sometimes I wonder if owners ever do the math to see what a potential buyer's monthly costs are going to be, or do they just pick a figure out of thin air and hope for the best? A good broker is going to bring a seller with high expectations back down to earth by explaining the numbers to them. But some people just don't listen.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 1:46 PM

A nice small apartment building for a retired couple who want to become landlords ala Fred and Ethel Mertz.
But if I had this much cash, I would probably put it in tax-free bonds and enjoy life on a shoreline somewhere.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 2:00 PM

I just don't understand why people would buy and brownstone - and then rent half of it out.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 2:05 PM

This is for someone converting from EUR to USD. There's a top notch French program at the school next door.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 2:19 PM

The house was purchased for 1.54 in 7/04. The almost identical house to the right was purchased for 1.95 in 9/05. The owner of that house did an extensive renovation and sold it as condos for a total of about 4.5 mil. It certainly does not make sense to buy it and make condos. 3.5 is a lot of money but you also get a huge house. I don't know.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 2:22 PM

You can't get a mortgage that size with only 20% down anyway.

Oh, and a little cake molding (or even a lot in this case) is not nearly enough original detail.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 2:27 PM

2.19, you obviously don’t know any Europeans or European financial markets. 3.5mil USD works out to roughly 2.2mil Euros (which is still a ton of money and would go very far in most districts in Paris). If you have that sort of cash around I don’t think you’re going to spend on this place, just to be next to a mediocre French school. There are some buyers in the market for this place but I don’t think the rich Euro trash is one of them.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 2:34 PM

We looked at the French program at 58 (we're a bilingual fmaily) and I agree that it's not good enough to merit spending this kind of dough. Someone with that kind of money does not want their kid stuck in a class of 24 with only 1 teacher - and while the teacher may be perfectly fine, the talent pool to fit that slot is pretty slim.

I think this is another exmample of Mr. B finding one of the most outrageous listings he possibly can, to give the illusion that the market is still sky high, but there are plenty of more reasonably priced places, or places getting price cuts - why not feature those more often??

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 2:47 PM

No chance it will sell at this price.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 3:11 PM

HOLD UP!!!!
WAIT A MINUTE!!!

Since when does Mr. Stoner care about how people are going to pay their mortgages. I've seen many houses less charming then this one and all he says is "This one should fly". Why the change of tune Stoner? SHIT!!!! you even have a COOP up for less the $500K in Clinton Avenue. What Gives???

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 3:27 PM

This house was only bought 4 years ago for 1.5M. There are no renovations that could be done to substantiate a 2 million profit in 4 years.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 4:04 PM

I think this place is really overpriced, but don't buy tthe arguement that a current owner's cost basis in a property has much to do with today's market value. This house cost someone $50K 30 years ago. If a could buy it for $1 million I'd do Cartwheels.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 4:12 PM

If I had 3M to spend it def would not be here! If I had 3M to spend I def would not want tenants to support my lifestyle! That is a huge 'what if' is something goes wrong & you can't afford the mortgage.

I agree with 2:05pm -"I just don't understand why people would buy and brownstone - and then rent half of it out."

I have a brownstone - no tenants and enjoy it so much more. This is my 3rd brownstone, I used to have tenants and hated it. So I downsized from a 4 story to a 3 story, used the profit to live alone and enjoy my space. My mortgage is affordable and will still provide me with a very comfortable retirement!

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 4:23 PM

So, this house is almost as expensive as the highest priced, nicest houses currently on the market in Park Slope, half a block from Prospect Park? I don't see it. Makes no sense. And I don't even like Park Slope as a community. But I can appreciate the architecture, park, and amenities.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 4:50 PM

dave - you can buy 30 year munis at 5% easily. With a $3.5mm investment, your interest income is $175,000 a year which is equivalent to a pretax income of approximately $350,000 if you're a New Yorker. I would bet you that amount that not even .1% of the posters here make that much. I think you can find a pretty nice beach place on a monthly nut of $14,500. May be not the Hamptons, but you could afford a $1 milllion dollar beach house somewhere else and still have plenty of spending money.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 5:44 PM

anyone else get the sense that this thing is about to go .... timber? i mean bear stearns is dead, lehman is dying, all of the other major banks are getting killed. the rest of the us housing market is getting bodyslammed.

i appreciate the there's "only one ny/bk sentiment", but come on? the only thing that i see sustaining this market at this point is the equity that existing ny homeowners have built up over the years -- it gives them the abilty to go in to other properties, and the fear of loss isn't as much. for first time homeowners, forget about it. the rent/buy calculations are totally out of wack.

outside the condo market, i don't really buy the foreign buyer influence -- i like bk, but not sexy enough, and too much of a pain, to maintain a house from abroad. plus, as the inflation continues to set in, the fed will need to raise interest rates, which will have the double-hit -- increased mortgages costs coupled with a strenghtening of the dollar. a climb in the dollar will send the euros running for the exits -- their monthly-ownership costs would be going up, while the value of their properties are going down.

good night and good luck.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 6:03 PM

$3 million is the new $2 million - it's called inflation baby.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 7:19 PM

I love the look of this baby. I guess if the renters or those that don't want to buy think it is overpriced they should move to New Jersey Or Florida. LOL you people dont understand this is NYC. Wake up.
"not the What"

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 9:10 PM

I think this house could get support there is a comp that sold on Henry street that i am aware of on the Corner of Degraw that sold for over 3mill.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 9:23 PM

7:19, 9:10, and 9:23 are all either the same person or the same kind of person - broker/owner/person with a vested interest in propping up insanely inflated property values. NY is not immune to current economic forces and this house is vastly overpriced, even at 3million. The current insanity feels like the final froth before the bubble bursts.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 9:48 PM

NYC, the only place in America where you have to be a millionaire to live in squalor.

Posted by: guest at June 11, 2008 11:13 PM

definitely a place for wealthy polygamists. perfect.

thanks to others on the muni bond tutorial, which was instructive. bet you 3/4 of us hardly barely almost don't even know what a muni bond is.

maybe its me.

in any case, headlines sell. mr. b. liked the crazy headline, so he put it up.

timber? how about bon-voyage?

Posted by: guest at June 12, 2008 10:02 AM

sdrubbins, I don't think many posters are saying this is a realistic price (except some broker postings).

However, are you sure that the PS 4th St. house was same size? I don't think you can get a 25 ft wide x 5 floors 2 family house with details going for 2.5 million (and people thinking that was expensive) unless it was in horrible, horrible shape. That's alot of house in Park Slope for that money.

This house has been on the market quite a while -- all through the spring buying season. So I don't think anyone is making any offers close to the 3.5 million asking price. That's a much better indicator of whether this is a good price. However, I could see this going for over 2 million, but not close to 3 by any shakes.

Posted by: guest at June 12, 2008 10:20 AM

True, I'm not a fan of that block either, although it's a nice school (my kids go there) and I've walked down that block in the evening and it is pretty quiet. On the other hand, if you like being close to the park, and think the one-minute walk to school with your kids is convenient, you might not mind. Although I definitely wouldn't pay a premium to live on that block, unlike some of the more beautiful place blocks in the neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at June 12, 2008 11:03 AM

Polemicisit says "5% cap rate means $175,000 net operating income per year, or about $3,800 per month."

dont cap rates only apply to rent regulated properties?

This property is not rent regulated and therefore can have a much higher rent role. Or am i missing something?

Posted by: guest at June 12, 2008 11:41 AM

I think the point is that nobody is going to pay a much higher rent.

Posted by: guest at June 12, 2008 12:08 PM

sdrubbins, as crazy as it seems, you really can't get a 2500 square foot duplex for 800K in CG anymore. Really, people are asking more than that for one floor apartments these days, especially in extra wide buildings. The duplex as a condo probably goes for at least 1.5. I know, I think that's outrageous, too, but they've been condo-ing these buildings in the neighborhood and I'm pretty sure the one in the building next to this one went for even more than that quite a few years ago. I never thought they'd get that price, but they did.

And, the rentals on floor 3 and 4 are probably $2,500/month rentals because they are 1250 square ft. I also agree that's outrageous, but it's difficult to find a 900 square ft floor through in prime CG for under $2,000 these days. The top floor is less, but could probably still get at least $1,800.

Not that these numbers make it worth much more than the 2.5 you calculated, however. But I think if it were listed at 2.5, they'd likely get an offer fairly quickly (and if it's a good price, even a bidding war). But asking $1 million on top of that does seem ridiculous.

Posted by: guest at June 12, 2008 9:55 PM

Who on earth would lend money to any municipality for 30 years when they are all going to go the same way as the government...Bankrupt! At least the government can print its own money. Just take a look around at the towns starting to file bankruptcy. Vallejo,Ca. and many more will be down the pipeline with underfunded pension and health liabilities ahead.

Posted by: guest at June 17, 2008 10:51 PM