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June 18, 2008
Enough With the Marauding Teenagers!
A couple of months ago as we were walking East on Greene Avenue between Waverly and Washington we noticed in our peripheral vision someone approaching fast from behind. When we spun around, it was a teenage boy, probably about 15 years old, who had crept up and was hovering inches from the back of our head mocking us provocatively to the clear delight of his jeering friends. Ever risk-averse, we quickly walked out into the middle of the street and starting dialing on our cell phone. With a few shouts, the pack continued down the block. We jogged back to a police car we had noticed parked back on Vanderbilt, told the cops what had happened and went home. The next day we heard that a woman had been mugged half an hour later a few blocks from there by a bunch of teenagers. We've heard of several similar instances in the area in recent weeks. And it's not just Clinton Hill. A post on Brooklynian describes how a trio of teenage girls (19, 17 and 12) mugged five different people in Prospect Heights on Saturday night (and how only one of them decided to press charges) and an email we received yesterday told of a violent mugging of a twenty-something male by a group of boys at around 8:15 Monday night at Dekalb and South Oxford Street in Fort Greene (above). What can the community do to combat this activity? Obviously greater police presence would help, but given the paltry resources the NYPD devotes to this part of town, it's going to take a lot of vigilance on the part of residents in terms of reporting even small incidents of harassment and pressing charges. And everyone should be aware that a lot of these muggings are happening during daylight hours, often between the end of school and dinner time, so it's a good idea to minimize iPod and cell phone usage during those times. Please use this comment thread to document other similar incidents that you know about in recent months as well as to suggest ways to address the problem.
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Comments
Like I said before these are just stupid kids that know you are afraid to confront them. If one of them gets in your face pop him, they'll all scatter. If parents of these kids don't want to discipline then I'm happy to.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:38 AM
I seem to remember Bernard Getz had a pretty good solution.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:38 AM
no, no, you shouldn't have walked across the street. You are meant to take a self-defense class and fight all of them, failing that you get down on the ground. Didn't you see all that great advice on the clinton hill marauding gang thread?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:39 AM
Get yourself a can of mace and when you turn around confront the bastard and mace his/her ass. They will be screaming and crying like little punks that they can not see and in pain.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:41 AM
i agree - if any marauding teen confronts me, they are going down. i will not be held accountable for how many blows they receive, how many bruises they receive, how many teeth are knocked out - i for one give myself full liberty to wail if any of these hoodlums get's in my face!
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:44 AM
9:38-
You so tough! It's not the movies, you're not Kimbo Slice. You can take one or two punks but if there's a group of them you're gonna get knocked down and have your teeth kicked in -- no matter how fuerte you think you are when you play Halo 3.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:45 AM
Perhaps a group of thoe who have been mugged can get the police to visit the schools in the neighborhood and speak to students about the attacks. It seems that if these attacks are happening during the housrs you referenced, they are likely being committed by students in the area. Most of these kids no longer actually live in the area as prices have risen.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:45 AM
Hey Brownie-
The problem is you look like a victim. I agree with the above, put down the cell phone and learn how to throw a jab to the nose. One good jab and that mofo will be crying for his babby mama.
- The What
Some day this war will end ...
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:45 AM
A community that tolerates this by not speaking to the police as witnesses, not reporting incidents, and not pressing charges will reap the consequences. These kids (as a group) are bullies, and they need to be stood up to.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:45 AM
Do what you gotta do. There is no excuse for this behavior. Race, class, whatever...these are a bunch of dumb kids.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:46 AM
As a once hoodlum teenager and now a productive adult all I can say is, don't make yourself a victim. Most people that are harassed or robbed are paying enough attention to there surrounding and whats going on. The fact is if you let someone "creep up behind your head" you are not paying attention. Just because you have gentrified these neighborhoods it does not mean Brooklyn stopped being Brooklyn.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:46 AM
Its because they closed the community centers.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:47 AM
9:38 gives stupid advice. One kid, sure. Confront and communicate. But a bunch of them, egging each other on? Maybe if you're Arnold Schwartzenegger, but otherwise, Brownstoner's swift-thinking actions were the way to go.
Face it, these kids are mean cowards. They ganged up on a WOMAN? I bet she was a small woman, older, maybe with a baby, too. Nasty. Avoid and deflect as much as possible.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:47 AM
just more proof that people should have to pass a test to procreate.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:48 AM
Hey, Brownstoner, I'm sorry that happened to you. My beef is with the people who didn't press charges. They really dropped the ball.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:48 AM
Blame the victim?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:50 AM
Our particular incident wasn't really that bad--and it's the first even close call we've had in the three years we've lived in the neighborhood. It was a bit of a wake-up call though. Our mistake was letting our guard down by talking on our cell phone--something we would never have done if it were dark out. And for the record, we've been mugged only twice in a lifetime of living in NYC, and both times were on the Upper East Side!
Posted by: brownstoner at June 18, 2008 9:52 AM
Unfortunately, these kids will probably only get the message when they do this to the wrong person and get the living sh*t beaten out of them. The police won't do anything, and it will further serve to provoke them if they are brought in and let go immediately (which will happen).
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:53 AM
I have been hearing this with more frequency over the last year or so. As you mentioned, it seems to be the same/similar scenarios played out: Unsuspecting Brooklyn resident walking while chatting/listening to iPod/messing about on PDA completely unaware of their surroundings and the next thing they know they're knocked to the ground and iPod/phone/PDA is snatched away. In the dozens of reports that I've read on various blogs, it's almost always a few teens, they never have any weapons, and they rely on the element of surprise to sucker punch their victims and snatch the booty. This will keep occurring as long as people walk around with their heads in the clouds—and in many cases, don't file a police report. It's scary for all of us that walk these streets at all hours that we may get a beat down for our cell phone by a few 15-year olds. In order for it to cease, I don't know—it's a hyrda-headed issue; after-school activities, more foot patrols, better parenting, and as I mentioned before, more vigilant residents that pay attention and rarely allow themselves to get distracted by cells/iPod/etc...Jeez.
Posted by: Fjorder at June 18, 2008 9:53 AM
WHAAAAA! Brooklyn didn't get the genetrification memo.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:53 AM
9:53 - you are a complete idiot and bring nothing to this thread.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:54 AM
Not for nothing but it does amaze me how often I see young adults (and females more than males) so engrossed on cell phones or fumbling with their ipods or whatever and so seemingly unaware of surroundings with items of value (and status) so visible. Or using ATM's late at night where anyone can see them. Then when you get real close or pass them - they jump 'cause they are startled.
Are they so un-street savvy to not realize how vulnerable a target they are?
You always , as 2nd nature, keep scanning who else is on street and how close they are to you.
Just read neighborhood papers police blotter - and you see muggings are almost always cellphone/ipods.
(and I am in Carroll Gardens/BoerumH/CobbleHill area).
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:54 AM
last year this happened to me with a teenager on my bike. It was about 6:15 and I was walking home from the Atlantic Avenue stop. Broad daylight. Plenty of cars leaving the Atlantic Center
The kid started taunting me and making VERY inappropriate comments and than tried to take my bag. I pulled my bag back from him and he than started to circle me as I continued to walk home.
I went into the Barber shop that is on the way and asked if I could stay in there for a little until the kid left.
The guys in the barber shop asked what happened and went outside yelled at the kid and than closed up and walked me home to my Apt on Greene/Carlton.
Its part of the reason I love Ft Greene. Its not about who you are, what you look like it is such a nice community.
I also went down to the precient - I knew this kid would probably do this to other people. They followed up with me twice and were very responsive.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:57 AM
All you idiots who give the "fight back" advice fail to consider the possibility that these teens could, at times, have a weapon. You never know.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:59 AM
In the swanky neighborhoods of Mexico City, Sao Paulo, Lima, etc, rich folks who live in the million-dollar mansions usually do not show themselves too often on the street. They know the income disparity between themselves and the city's poor. Americans, clueless about socio/economic issues, delude themselves into thinking that this is an egalitarian city where everyone has the same shot at success and wealth. Actually, we are heading more towards the Latin American model and this type of class-directed violence is likely to increase. Wherever extreme wealth rubs shoulders with extreme poverty, you should expect class-related crime. Brooklyn's wealthy young elite should get a clue.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:07 AM
If it's a bunch of kids, it would be INSANE to fight back unless you're a closet Bernie Goetz. You punch one, the rest jump you and kick your face in. They're teenagers, remember? Same brain chemicals as the clinically insane.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:08 AM
Interesting. Two of my friends and I were assaulted on Saturday night in Crown Heights by about five teenage girls. We were near Franklin Park bar at the corner of St. John's Place and Franklin Ave. (some would call this Prospect Heights, but whatever). They approached us from behind and beat us with fists and umbrellas. However, they did not attempt to rob us. Maybe b/c there were 3 of us, one of whom was a guy? Who knows? A neighbor who witnessed the attack called the police; we left our names/numbers with her to pass on should the cops respond. Either they didn't, or they had no interest in taking statements from us.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:09 AM
"I seem to remember Bernard Getz had a pretty good solution."
Boy O Boy! You Asshats better stop talking like that or you are going to get a hollow point in your face. The youngins would love to get a notch on their belt buy shooting a Asshat.
"Get yourself a can of mace and when you turn around confront the bastard and mace his/her ass. They will be screaming and crying like little punks that they can not see and in pain."
Let me introduce you to the Carpet Knife and Box Cutter. These are standard weapons for street warfare. Every kid carries one and they will use them with bad consequences.
"i agree - if any marauding teen confronts me, they are going down. i will not be held accountable for how many blows they receive, how many bruises they receive, how many teeth are knocked out - i for one give myself full liberty to wail if any of these hoodlums get's in my face!"
Lets talk about states. Humans are in different state all the time, like being calm. scared, happy, etc. When you are talking about confronting a group a Teenagers on a Blog you state is "Cool" but faced with that situation and your thinking changes.
You Asshats kill me. You move into a Neighborhood that is 85% Black, then you complaint people are "Bothering" you! You buy overpriced property around these areas and complain about you conditions. You really don't get do you? Very sad.....
"Hey Brownie-
The problem is you look like a victim. I agree with the above, put down the cell phone and learn how to throw a jab to the nose. One good jab and that mofo will be crying for his babby mama."
Brownstoner I would NEVER give anyone advice like this. You just had a bad day and I think your "Karma" is catching up with you. Promoting this Blogs is Covert Race/Class warfare. If you want to engage in this type of behavior, you have to suffer the consequences.
The What (Duck!)
Someday this war is gonna end...
BTW 200 posts coming you way. This is a hot topic.
Posted by: what at June 18, 2008 10:09 AM
And that is why many people are leaving Brooklyn. Why subject yourself, your spouse, and kids to such risks? Why not move somewhere (with equal access to Manhattan) where it doesn't cost $1.5-2 million to buy a house that needs a full renovation; where you can walk around while actually listening to an Ipod; etc. What is so great about B'lyn again?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:09 AM
9:57 has it right. Speak up or get someone to do it for you. If everyone on here as an adult is afraid to speak to or confront a teenager you're going to get picked on.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:11 AM
I'm so glad that the majority of posters here are prepared to fight back against groups of teens. Teens are the most dangerous idiots on the streets -- they have no sense of mortality or consequences and just enough physical strength to cause serious injury. In fact I seem to remember some of the most vicious attacks in NYC coming from teens. But good luck to our blogging Brooklyn Rambos. Make sure your health insurance is in order.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:11 AM
I have been living in BK for 10 years and moved here to attend Pratt when Clinton Hill was still bad. I have heard so many of these stories but always from people who would expect to get robbed who don't pay attention while out on the streets.
A couple of times it happened where kids would try and rob my friends and I. We laughed at them and kept going. Most of these are just trying to act tough and don't really know what to do.
It is just funny to read about all these different incidents because I remember at Pratt, most students were targets, because they were from small town America or the burbs. But all the kids from NYC and other cities who had some street sense never had any problems.
As -9:54 said it is amazing how little street sense most people have and those the ones who normally get harassed.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:13 AM
lots of these types of issues in dumbo these days. parents of these kids should be held accountable too.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:14 AM
"Interesting. Two of my friends and I were assaulted on Saturday night in Crown Heights by about five teenage girls. We were near Franklin Park bar at the corner of St. John's Place and Franklin Ave. (some would call this Prospect Heights, but whatever)."
OH OH OH! Remember when Brownstoner had this Bar on here and I told you this was the hood. Some of you Asshats laughed at me, remember that! What make that bar so scary is you cant see while you are in the bar. Once you come out and walk down St. Johns, you are in trouble.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end....
I wonder about those comps..
Posted by: what at June 18, 2008 10:15 AM
I can't help but think that the other post about folks moving in and other folks moving out isn't somehow connected to the uptick in this type of behavior. Bringing the Upper East Side and all it's trappings can cause resentments that manifest themselves in this type of behavior.
What's the solution? Keep your head up and when someone approaches you in a threatening manner, stop, face them, and scream your head off at them.
Physical violence may sound like a satisfying response but as my grandfather used to say, "Never fight with a pig, you'll both get dirty and he'll like it." Even if you are successful in beating the tar out of your assailant, you'll either end up defending yourself against the crowd of kids from across the street and/or defending yourself to the community starting with the phrase, "So I beat up the kid".
Posted by: kuroko at June 18, 2008 10:15 AM
Pay attention. You are not in wonderland, people. How the hell does it happen that a group of teenagers can sneak up on you? Mr. B admits he wasnt paying attention. the 2nd 946am and 954am have it right. Even if you dont think you can be mugged, you might be run over by a deliveryguy, bitten by a dog, step in dog shit, fall down open basement doors, etc. I've lived in Brooklyn over 17 years and never been mugged. Maybe I've been lucky. I prefer to think its because I pay attention, and I dont look scared. Those are the two biggest targets, the oblivious and the scared.
Its not blaming the victim. Its being realistic. Until the causes of teen violence are identified and remedied, you have to figure out how to minimize the chances of you being attacked. Take heed.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:15 AM
Like other posters have said punching one will only result in a beatdown.
Throwing a single punch and then stepping back will always do that.
However if you continue to pummel, gouge, stomp, pull their head up and punch one kid's head against the concrete nonstop the other kids will run.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:18 AM
Skinny white guys with glasses are a favorite target.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:18 AM
10:09, you make a good point. I'll put up with those risks and inconveniences if I'm paying 250-500K. No f**king way would I put up with this if it's going to cost me 1 million bucks or more. Clueless.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:19 AM
Oh and check this out "A couple of months ago as we were walking East on Greene Avenue " A couple of month ago... Hmmm A slow day Brownstoner huh? Ok, keep building up your Karma.... LMMFAO
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at June 18, 2008 10:19 AM
"I've lived in Brooklyn over 17 years and never been mugged. Maybe I've been lucky. I prefer to think its because I pay attention, and I dont look scared. Those are the two biggest targets, the oblivious and the scared."
So the solution is to walk around in a paranoid state, suspecting every teenager you see, while making sure you don't use your cell phone or ipod? What a great way to live...
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:22 AM
10:07 - actually we should not get a clue - if a clue means turning our backs on the public sphere, driving in cars from gated communities to private clubs to segregated malls. Despite this lamentable (and seasonal) uptick in teenagers being a--holes, committing crimes of opportunity, over-all NYC continues to be much safer than it was 20 years ago. The advice Jon gives is good advice, and to the extent we reduce the opportunity for teenagers to act criminally, we take responsibility for ourselves. The various "I'd beat a group of seven 17 year olds in a fight" comments are absurd and come close to blaming the victim. In court I am often standing next to young men who are accused of doing exactly these kind of robberies, and when asked to explain they can't. Because stealing a sell phone worth 200 bucks and risking 5 years in state prison makes no sense at all. Does that mean they are evil or incorigable? No - it means that those teenage brains are still developing and often two of them are worse than one. Toss in preceived invisibility ("white folks can't tell us apart, so I'll never be caught"), class and racial alienation ("she can always get another i-pod no problem, and she's not my sister"), and you get a series of stupid decisions. So don't leave yourself vulnerable, and retreat from the situation as soon as you see it coming.
Of course I am leaving myself vulnerable to accusations of racism on side (urging white people to cross the street when they see a group of young balck men walk down the street) and coddling criminals on the other. All I can say is that we each choose how to navigate the rocky shoals of urban living, avoiding cluelessness and panic-mongering as best we can.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at June 18, 2008 10:22 AM
Don't forget to whip your your bottle of turpentine, spray it on them and then set them ablaze, 10:18. That REALLY sends a message to wayward youth.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:22 AM
They should arrest and trial these dumb little monkeys like adults.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:23 AM
crack babies all grown up...
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:24 AM
Have you seen the new people walking Brooklyn these days? 5'9 140 lbs of soy frailty. I'm not condoning those kids actions but you have to realize that the new brooklynites are like fresh meat in a shark tank.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:25 AM
I've lived in Brooklyn (Park Slope) since 1992 and have never been mugged. I even walk around with an iPod (not, obviously, since 1992). I always try to be aware of my surroundings, but it doesn't mean you have to "walk around in a paranoid state."
I know this is just my anecdotal experience and doesn't prove anything, but as long as everyone else is sharing theirs...
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:26 AM
Actually anyone 16 and older is tried as an adult in New York State, 10:23. But that wasn't really your point, was it? You just wanted to call Black kids "monkeys" didn't you? Classy...
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at June 18, 2008 10:27 AM
10:11 has hit the nail on the head, as were the comments about not knowing whether they are carrying knives, boxcutters or guns.
As long as you carry yourself with some sense of awareness of your surroundings and not off in some txting mode or iPod world you are far less likely to become a target.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 10:27 AM
Putnamdenizen I never agree with you but, your statement makes sense. Teenage minds have plenty of thing going on puberty, peer pressure and dealing with growing up.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: what at June 18, 2008 10:28 AM
If stuff like this is going on it daylight on the streets and the cops can't stop it then the neighborhood is clearly tolerating it.
*Someone* knows who these kids are and where they live and who their families are. And others are seeing and hearing things and pretending they aren't happening.
You need people on the streets who can and will intervene. If not cops, it must be neighbors.
Otherwise, there is always Jersey and Long Island...
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:29 AM
9:57,
You give a good example of the community stepping up to protect one of its members.
You also did the logical thing.
Logical behavior and community action are two ways of handling this problem.
Equally important is concerted effort by the larger politic.
Step up and decry the Housing Authority's plan to close hundreds of community centers across the city. It's bad for kids, families, and everybody else. Lobby your council members and state reps, phone the mayor and governor.
Stop the DCHA from this action, otherwise it's going to be a long hot summer.
P.S. Be sure to stop by that barbershop now and then to say hello. Build those community bonds!
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:30 AM
This the first time I have ever posted in Brownstoner, but I have to put my two cents in.
I am a fifty something lifelong resident of Brooklyn and Manhattan and have never been robbed, mugged,assaulted or harrassed in my life. Why? Becase I don't carry myself as a victim. Street punks look for the easy target, if you look like one the chances are greater you will be.
Keep aware of your surroundings. If some one approaching you looks like they may be a problem look at them squarely for a moment, don't stare and don't smile. Both can be invitations into your space. Don't quicken the pace of your walk for it indicates fear, and that gives them the feeling of power they seek. Look like authority and/or strength. Look like you will and can fight back. Talk street if you have to talk at all.
If you decide to cross the street, look like you are doing it because you have to to get where you are going and keep your eyes on them as you do.
Remember, punks look for the easy mark if you don't come as one you won't be
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:31 AM
10:15: "Those are the two biggest targets, the oblivious and the scared."
Uh, if you are oblivious, you are probably not scared. Those two states are pretty incompatible, don'tcha think?
Also, in my case (I previously posted about being assaulted near Franklin Park bar), there were THREE of us. Two girls and a guy. One native NYer. And it was raining. What? Are we not supposed to talk with each other and instead walk in a single file, each keeping a trained eye on the street scene? Be real.
So for the people who were wondering, THAT is how a group of teenagers can sneak up on you.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:32 AM
10:30 - I have a shaved head - wouldn't it seem, er, a bit forced to stop by a barbershop and say hi! (Check out Brooklynian for an extensive discussion of saying hi on the street).
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at June 18, 2008 10:33 AM
10:31 and all those blaming the victim, your suggestions are extremely vague and unhelpful. And you are, in effect, blaming the victim. If you've never been robbed or mugged, you are simply lucky. That's it.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:34 AM
actually something similar happened to me last week. On my way to work I noticed two kids playing a "pincer" movement, forcing a sport coated individual in between them and then threatening him from both sides; he jogged ahead while they had a good laugh. Foolish for sporty to allow that to happen...
As they were walking slower, I caught up to them and watched them set up the same game for me. Instead, I shoved the one over and told them where to with some useful obscenities.
Am i hot sh*t? no; I was reduced to bullying teenagers on my way to work in the morning. All I can hope is they figured out that some folks out there do have teeth and they'll think twice before trying another stunt.
and for 9:59, for the immediate confrontation, I'd rather 1) avoid the situation and 2) fight back than live in fear.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:35 AM
um, Welcome to Brooklyn...
10:07 hits it on the head. Every $1 PBR special is like a clown show to people on food stamps or less. And even those who are struggling working class in these neighborhoods, usually did not 'choose' this life, this is an improvement, and here 'you' come with your ironic t-shirt and $1000 worth of gadgets hanging off of you.
I suggest engaging, maybe this blog and comments can present these incidences to the media that traditionally targeted the communities in these changing neighborhoods The Amsterdam News, The Chief, Carribean Press, Spanish language press, even the Irish and Polish press.
When its "you against them" its one thing, when its happening to 'all of us' its another. These 'crimes' are happening to the 'affluent' and who doesn't relish some sour grapes every now and then. If the whole owns hears about these unfortunate events - its thw whole communities problem.
What happens now? The ipoders have a crime against them. The ipodless get arrested...
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:37 AM
10:35 and 10:31 are very good posts. You don't have to be in a brawl in order to confront someone. Just don't slink around with your tail between your legs.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:39 AM
10:30:
I was addressing 9;57. Even if s/he's bald, I'd give the same advice. The guys did a good deed that deserves recognition.
And bald or not, it's always good to know neighborhood merchants who might provide help when you need it. (Try supporting their businesses, too.)
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:39 AM
I think I'm going to pull out my Death Wish DVD tonight.
Posted by: Polemicist at June 18, 2008 10:40 AM
an accounting of a recent attempted mugging/harrasment in Bed-Stuy via Twitter: http://paolomastrangelo.blogspot.com/2008/06/dear-nypd.html
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:40 AM
10.30 - yea so get on to everyone except the parents who "raise" these kids eh?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:40 AM
I don't know if a barber would help a bald person.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:45 AM
"an accounting of a recent attempted mugging/harrasment in Bed-Stuy via Twitter: http://paolomastrangelo.blogspot.com/2008/06/dear-nypd.html'
OMG! Hell I would rob this Asshat myself. People you are living in a war-zone. the engagement is you! If you are walking around like this Asshat, you will be assaulted.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at June 18, 2008 10:47 AM
10:30 and 10:39 here.
My last post was actually addressed to 10:33, Putnamdenizen.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:47 AM
and I think it said he lived in Harlem so was clueless to begin with????
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 10:48 AM
Is mace legal to carry?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:54 AM
I was robbed once- 1994 gun to the back of my neck held by a teenager while his partners were in a car behind us- this was in my parents neighborhood in an upscale section of queens.
I walk fully aware but not paranoid.
I'm six one, 205 and study and teach martial arts and most of the advice so far is illogical impractical and spoken by people who probably have never been in a fight.
When you study strategies and techniques for dealing with multiple attackers(3 or more) you realize despite preparations training( throw in a box cutter and your chances are very slim) the best move is to find an exit, period.
I've lived in clinton hill for 10 yrs and can fend for myself luckily I haven't had to yet,but my wife is tiny and not from the city, my advice(along with basic self defense techniques) to her besides the obvious is to take the long way around and walk down fulton rather than gates, be vigilant in scanning ahead and behind her and if confronted offer no resistance.
Posted by: DowningByLaw at June 18, 2008 11:02 AM
Get a stun gun. Whip that shit out when someone starts harassing you and give it a spark. whoever was harassing you will hightail it out of there.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:04 AM
i have lived in nyc my entire 37 years and luckily have never been mugged or attacked
in my younger stupid years i was frequently going to unsavory areas to cop drugs
and the only advice i can give you is be very aware of your surroundings and look you do even if you do not know exactly where you are and where you are going
people constantly ask me for directions wherever i go - that is because i always look like i know exactly where i am and where i am going
do not walk around blasting your ipod off in never never land and playing with your i-phone or blackberry -it is just common sense
nyc is really safe these days but there is always that threat of danger
now in the summer months it is always worse as more people are on the street late at night and at all hours so just watch your back and be smart
a job and beautiful apt in nyc does not come with a street manual for street smarts those are learned over time spent here
so don't think you are so street savvy when you are not and wathc your back
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:07 AM
11:04 is the biggest Asshat so far...and there have been more than the usual number commenting here today
Gabby...do an Asshat of the Day
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 11:08 AM
A train, Utica Ave stop, about 6 months ago. Two young ladies (12-14) tried to start up with me as I was carrying my baby up the stairs in his stroller. I called one of the girls a brat and told her to mind her business. Got to the top of the stairs at Fulton Park and was talking to the token booth clerk who was taking a smoke break when one of the young ladies came back and stood at the bottom of the stairs like she was going to start something again. I told her if she came up she would have to take her chances, because I would kick her back down the stairs. Then the token booth clerk stepped in my line of vision and told me to calm down. By the time she finished speaking to me, the young lady was gone.
BTW, idiot at 10.09, love your racial sterotypes you usless POS. All blacks have carpet knives/box cutters and are looking to beat down whitey. Just stop posting already. You contribute nothing and now you’ve had your 15 minutes via your friends at NYMag, so go find another little pond. What’s more, you are a f*cktard. It’s obvious that you’re incapable of parsing any of the cut and paste you post ad nauseum or of making any type of intellectual or analytical contributions to this board. Your impotent attempts to portray yourself as some sort of visionary re: the economy or RE are laughable. If you want to talk about asshattery, you wrote the book. So go away.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:11 AM
The suburbs are filled with die-hard Brooklynites who were mugged and beaten up by our true lifetime denizens.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:15 AM
B-O-O H-O-O! you were robbed of your expensive electronic toys. Go back to your over-priced condo/brownstone and lick your wounds you big baby. Welcome to the real Brooklyn you clueless squares...
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:17 AM
u cant blame me my friends for getting a little crazy. it is my culture. we are mad about money and sh!t.
u got a nice computer here! need to lock u door better when u go to work lol
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:18 AM
as the economy continues to sour things may get worse before they get better
i hope no one gets hurt or attacked but be on your guard and be careful
walking 7 blocks from a subway @ 2am drunk is not smart
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:19 AM
Learn this phrase: Not in the face!
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:19 AM
To all the folks suggesting that they have never been victimized because they stay aware, look tough/street smart and can avoid being an easy mark, nice for you. But I'm guessing you are also a few things that some of us are not:
1. Male
2. relatively large
3. Black (given the "talk street" ref)
Not especially helpful to many of us, and disturbingly close to blaming victims while suggesting no other or long-term alternatives.
I'm surprised no one has responded to this post: "In the swanky neighborhoods of Mexico City, Sao Paulo, Lima, etc, rich folks who live in the million-dollar mansions usually do not show themselves too often on the street. They know the income disparity between themselves and the city's poor. Americans, clueless about socio/economic issues, delude themselves into thinking that this is an egalitarian city where everyone has the same shot at success and wealth."
Spot. On. We're in a catch-22, as a culture.
And I believe, psychologically speaking, EVERYone is pissed off. On both "sides". And that a huge part of this is the we/them thing. If you can't begin to identify with someone or your projection of their motives, then you can't empathize. It works both ways. The kid thinks, "oh, they can always get more of that, easy. I can't. I deserve it too! And they don't give a f*ck about me anyway", while the adult thinks: "Godda**it!, little punk hoodlum, animal, freak,... horrible parents! Leave us alone...Go away! Out of "our" neighborhood..." and so on.
And it seems to me that the bigger picture requires getting more community centers and great teenage activities (considered worthwhile by said teens) going; community outreach to the tune of town hall meetings to plan and work together, pitching in both money and time, a level of genuine involvement from "rich folks" we don't see a lot; getting involved early on with little kids at risk, really injecting yourself, (being a big brother/sister? weekend volunteer work?); increased police patrols; and finally, get the Republicans out of office. For God's sakes. Bottom up or top down? I don't know. Grassroots activism AND a huge change in the sociopolitical structure.
Posted by: at June 18, 2008 11:15 AM
Posted by: Nokilissa at June 18, 2008 11:19 AM
don't kid yourself about all this "carrying yourself with some sense of awareness of your surroundings" or "not looking scared" because there is no rhyme or reason for kids to jump you. i was tackled by two kids (maybe 10 years old) on Eastern Parkway near Underhill at 6pm. there were people around, they did nothing. did they think these kids were playing or something? after they tackled me, they cut my face and stole nothing from me. after the police showed up and took the report, they told me i should have "kicked their ass." sorry, but i have a bit of a problem kicking the shit out of kids only 9 or 10 year old, period.
bottom line is, i wasn't scared, or listening to an iPod, on a cell phone, nothing. there's no way to justify something like this. these kids were looking for a thrill or something. i doubt my unwillingness to wail on small kids reads in my body language, or hell, maybe it does. my point is, there are kids in the neighborhood that will rob, mug, or just beat you up for the sole reason that you don't share their skin tone. it's effed up, but part of living in the hood. and i'm not leaving.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:20 AM
10:54 Yes.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:20 AM
also - don't carry iPods. I have a Cowon D2 media player - expandable, has a radio, and doesn't require iTunes! and is tiny.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:21 AM
11:18....bad ghetto impression...get back to your order entry job now
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 11:22 AM
Noklissa,
I'm sorry but people who attribute crimes to some kind of class rage / revenge by the poor for injustice don't understand crime or the poor.
Poor peoples' favorite victims are other poor people. It's just that the relatively rarer crimes against the affluent (who have access to the media, high-profile blogs, etc.) get more attention.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:24 AM
Nice to see that this thread has not been reduced to classist/racist commentary, but seems to be quite a productive discussion. I'd like to make a point, however: In the mean streets of New York, gentrified or otherwise, would you put a blindfold on walking down the street? Of course not, because sight is a primary sense, especially when you need to actively analyze what is going on around you... then why would you give away the primary sense of hearing sound to process what is happening on the street around you (by listening to an ipod)... as my Mom would say, "sometimes common sense is not that common".
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:28 AM
11:19 is another idiot that blames the economy. You mean two years ago these thugs would have been employed and not felt the need to mug and beat up people?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:30 AM
Is "Maruading Teenagers" the new code word? I remember a few short years ago the term "Wilding" was used frequently by the press to describe a group (defined by 2 or more) young blackmen gathered together on a street corner. A few over exagerrated incidents made for good headlines and plunged this city into a era of fear that brouht Guiliani to power. The atmosphere was so poisonous that four incident young men playing in a park across the street from where they lived was sent to jail for rape while supposedly "wilding" in central park. Those of us without selective memory know the hysteria that produced that horrible injustice. I am not downplaying what happened to brownstoner and others. I also have been a vistim of crime. I too, believe that if you are a menace to society and have problems functioning around people that you should be removed by your peers. But, I also believe that once the community recognizes that a problem is developing we should meet, plan, and discuss ways of working with law enforcement to help reduce (not stop) crime in our community. The last thing we should be doing as crime victims is 1) not reporting the crime and 2) banging the drum of fear. Fort Greene is surrounded on all four corners by high schools where kids are together in groups. Let's first see them as kids and not "Marauding Teenagers" With people on this site praising Bernard Geotz and the like, I am afraid that we will drift back into a land that time forgot. Do we really wanna give birth to another Al Sharpton, or Rudy Guiliani? We are a better society now, and we can deal with this emerging problem in a different way.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:30 AM
@ at least 11:18 has a job daveinbedstuy
not posting on bs all day like you douchebag
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:31 AM
Just a bit of the old ultraviolence. Real horrorshow!
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:31 AM
I guess I posted too soon (re: the thread degenerating into racist/classist bs).
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:32 AM
Lately there does seem to be an increase in street robberies by teenagers. There is a feel of unrest in many neighborhoods in the after school hours. We should all reach out to our local precincts, City and State elected officials,and schools. Increased patrols would probably be effective.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:32 AM
11:24, true. So true. Most crime is intra-racial and in fact, much of it is intra-family!
But that isn't what's being discussed here. We're talking about crimes that cross racial/socioeconomic divides. Or so I thought.
Posted by: Nokilissa at June 18, 2008 11:33 AM
i moved to an area with alot of low income types who i am helping to displace and
i wonder why there is such animosity towards me? gee i wonder why?
there is a reason mhy many of these areas are the way they are so now you know what most others have known for years
but we are racist for saying it right ?
welcome to brooklyn my friend do not let the door hit you in ass on the way out of town
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:34 AM
Bernard Getz had the right idea.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:35 AM
There are many instances (mentioned in comments above, and in many police blotters) in which teens have attacked people and not stolen anything at all. This is not about poverty. It's about the power and street cred these kids think they obtain from bothering what they perceive as white yuppy scum. That's it. And Noklissa, the poverty found in the slums of Rio or in Mexico City is far beyond any poverty you might find in the housing projects of Clinton Hill. I am hispanic and have lived and worked in both places, and trust me, the Brooklyn poor would be considered upper middle class in comparison.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:36 AM
schools out for summer next week
hold onto your tech gadgets you self entitled douchebags it is going to be a long hot summer
and yes 11:30 the economy has alot to do with it
not many jobs for teens these days
so they will mug victims like you
enjoy your brownstone in the ghetto
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:37 AM
"is marauding teenagers the new code word"
The monomaniacs on this site who twist all words with their pathological obsession never cease to amaze.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:41 AM
could this happen in park slope?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25211398/?GT1=43001
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:42 AM
I agree with 10:07. The worst is yet to come.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:42 AM
11:31 you've been here all day too.
And I'm really hurt by some anonymous dickhead on a blog calling me a name.
You're the type of childish individual that gets mugged on the street by a few 10-12 year old girls.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 11:43 AM
These "kids" must be learning this from somewhere. It seems like the same tactics being used each time. It has to be some street thing going on. Like the "Don't Snitch" campaign.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:44 AM
11.44 - hey at least the community is coming together on something then.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:46 AM
You need a zoo trainer to tame all these animals. Where are the parents? Probably smoking crack.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:49 AM
Most of the posters here are internet thugs. It's easy to say what you would do, and whose ass you would kick. You probably wouldn't do squat, except take your beat down AND/OR give up your goods. You can posture in the streets all you want. Many times alertness and a no-nonsense attitude will carry the day. HOWEVER, If a wolfpack wants what you have; they will try you. Some of the toughest people I knew growing up are blowing in the wind (i.e dead) because they came up short when they were tested.
This is NYC; ANYBODY CAN GET IT.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:52 AM
no dave i am the kind of guy who smacks the crap out of losers like you
get a life and leave your moms basemnet please
you must have bedsores by now looosssssssser
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:53 AM
this is why more people are moving to kennsington, ditmas park, bay ridge, sunset park, ect. You dont have to deal with all of this dumb shit and its cheaper.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:53 AM
11:02 is one of the few posters with brains. If you're dealing with a group, you'll get hurt no matter how good you are as a fighter. I have a few friends with black belts in kenpo karate and their advice is the same: Run, get away, protect yourself.
The wimps or "pussies" discussed above aren't those who run and take cover, but those victims or potential victims that don't report or prosecute. That only encourages more violent acts.
Guns, box cutters, knives, steel-toed boots, bricks, you never know - I'm not going to die trying to fight more than ONE person, let alone a group.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:53 AM
"suggest ways to address the problem"
Get a dog. A well-bred rotweilier or German Shepherd is a good choice. Walk around with the dog. Problem solved.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:55 AM
11:41, if you think that 11:30's comments were pathological, I would like to know what kind of phycosis medicine are you prescribe to. I don't know 11:30's race or nationality but I am so tired of whitepeople making other whitepeople feel alienated because they have sympathy for people other that whitepeople. I hope I live to see the day that dinosaurs like you are extinct.
11:30, although I have reservations about somethings in your comments I respect your right to say it and also believe that we should not begin fearmongoring.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:57 AM
"P"BTW, idiot at 10.09, love your racial sterotypes you usless POS. All blacks have carpet knives/box cutters and are looking to beat down whitey."
Nope, just Asshats. The white people who was born and raised in this city are very "Street Smart". They know the ins and outs of NYC. They would not move into the Ghetto and trying to change things.
"Just stop posting already. You contribute nothing and now you’ve had your 15 minutes via your friends at NYMag, so go find another little pond. What’s more, you are a f*cktard. It’s obvious that you’re incapable of parsing any of the cut and paste you post ad nauseum or of making any type of intellectual or analytical contributions to this board. Your impotent attempts to portray yourself as some sort of visionary re: the economy or RE are laughable. If you want to talk about asshattery, you wrote the book. So go away."
Awwww what the matter.. Got swept up in "Ghetto fever"... LMMFAO!
"In the swanky neighborhoods of Mexico City, Sao Paulo, Lima, etc, rich folks who live in the million-dollar mansions usually do not show themselves too often on the street. They know the income disparity between themselves and the city's poor. Americans, clueless about socio/economic issues, delude themselves into thinking that this is an egalitarian city where everyone has the same shot at success and wealth."
Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner folks, no more numbers please!
This falls into my "cognitive dissonance" rant! You Asshats go get it. Brownstoner is King Asshat from OHIO and trying to get people killed by being "Pioneers" into the "wilderness"! BTW With the upcoming crash ZI don't things will "Improve" in the Ghetto. The way of life, the schools and crimes will continue to suck.
"Is "Maruading Teenagers" the new code word? I remember a few short years ago the term "Wilding" was used frequently by the press to describe a group (defined by 2 or more) young blackmen gathered together on a street corner."
Yes it is and the teens convicted in the Central Park Jogger case was found INNOCENT! So much for Just-us,huh.
"Learn this phrase: Not in the face!"
ROTMFFLMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One last thing, the police offers from the 88 pct. are sick and tired of the "Complaining Asshats". One Cop and I had a conversation and he said (Paraphrasing) "These Asshats move into the Ghetto and what us to change things overnight". Brownstoner lives on the worse block in Asshat Hill. Tons of people have been shot and killed on that corner. Brownstoner didn't do his homework and was moving with the other "Pioneers", how is that working out?
The What (Not in the face, LMAO)
Someday this war is gonna end....
Posted by: what at June 18, 2008 11:57 AM
"Putnamdenizen...your statement makes sense.
The What"
Dogs and cats living together... Mass hysteria!
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:00 PM
11:31 & 11:53 your low IQ is showing
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 12:02 PM
"Asshat Hill" is pretty funny, you gotta admit...
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:02 PM
11.57, as far as I know there is no drug currently available. CBT is the best bet.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:03 PM
11:41 + Guiliani + John McCain = LOSER!!!!!
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:05 PM
"sorry, but i have a bit of a problem kicking the shit out of kids only 9 or 10 year old, period."
You got punked by some 10 YEAR OLDS??? You're officially soft. Wring their fool necks! I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading here. Marauding teens suck, and there are variouis ways to handle these situations depending on who you are and the resources you may (or may not) have at hand. But SOME of you people clearly just don't belong in Brooklyn!
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:05 PM
I hate to admit it, but "The What" is mostly right. Keeping your awareness in the present is the best way to avoid these issues. Secondly, trying to "out street" these kids is not advisable except only in situations were flight is not available. It is time to face the fact that its open season on white people in certain areas. So how to deal? Number 1, get to know the people in your community. This can be done informally or by attending the local community board meetings at your local precinct, or even going to Church. Also, forming a community watch is a great idea. The point here is that grassroots, pro-active methods are far more effective than either retaliating or calling the cops. But it does force you to come out of your ivory tower. So there you have it. Get out and get involved or shut the fuck up and move to Inglewood.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:10 PM
The What isn't afraid because, in his experience, even maurauding kids think a guy wearing a diaper and a suit of armor eating handfuls of Tang out of a bucket is pretty terrifying, and they tend to cross the street themselves.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:10 PM
For those bitching about victims not reporting these crime: if you read the threads on brooklynian you'll find that people tried and were told by lazy cops (who didn't want to write up another report) that it wasn't needed since they had one from someone else.
For those saying people made themselves victims by listening to ipods or talking on phones: this is clearly not what happened in many of the incidents.
For those blaming the victims and arguing that these poor 15 year olds can't help themselves because they are poverty stricken: you and these teens don't know if the victims had less at 15 and have worked to get their phone, ipod, home.
The obnoxious, cursing, N-word shouting teens I see in groups on the streets are usually wearing jewelry, expensive sneakers, and labeled clothing. They have their own ipods and cell phones. They aren't attacking people because they are poor and have no opportunities like those in some favela. They are lazier than the cops referenced above and use the claim of racism as an excuse for their lack of achievement. They don't need a teen center. They need a lesson in how you get what you want and what you deserve. If their parents didn't teach them this, then the police and the courts should.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:11 PM
How to stop teens who are influenced by the media and music from acting out in way that has been described as cool to them since they were children. Good Luck!
Most kids out on the prowl to beat people up or rob are doing to be more street or hood. There is little or nothing you can do to prevent this current generation from acting out on violence.
Gain an understanding of there motives and you will at least be in the mindset not to become a victim! Also promote the education of the younger generation and maybe you will create some sort of change.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:12 PM
You're right 12:10...nobody ever messes with a crazy person!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 12:13 PM
"Brownstoner is King Asshat from OHIO and trying to get people killed by being "Pioneers" into the "wilderness"!"
I may not necesarily agree with him, but the What is a funny MF! Classic line.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:14 PM
If there is one thing most poor black kids are afraid of it is dogs. It's a cultural thing. Get a nice Lab or Shepherd. Nobody will mess with you, and the dogs are great companions and quality of life enhancers.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:16 PM
I think that in most of these instances of "marauding teens" or whatever they are called, the teens have come from a different neighborhood and have found a new "playground" probably out of the eyes of their own neighborhood.
Where I live in Bed Stuy none of this would be tolerated and the neighbors would be all over these kids. Its a community thing.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 12:17 PM
You can't bring your dog with you everywhere.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 12:19 PM
You should carry a gun if you want to live in a ghetto like Clinton Hill or Ft. Greene. Just because you are a sucker and blew your life savings an a $1 million home in a black ghetto doesn't mean you will be safe. You should of bought in a nice, safe, white neighborhood like Bay Ridge if you were interested in a safe, family orientated neighborhood. You want to be hip and live with the black thugs, well that is your choice.
Safe and happy in Bay Ridge.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:19 PM
Nokilissa,
Republicans are the problem huh? Yeah, the democrats have done so much to help the poor of New York City!
I enjoy your posts on occasion, but seriously - this city is a museum for failed liberal social programs. I really had no idea people believed in that stuff anymore.
Posted by: Polemicist at June 18, 2008 12:20 PM
And I think it was a Republican mayor who, after years of democrats, finally instilled some order to this city. But I might be wrong.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 12:21 PM
"If there is one thing most poor black kids are afraid of it is dogs. It's a cultural thing. Get a nice Lab or Shepherd. Nobody will mess with you, and the dogs are great companions and quality of life enhancers."
Ignorant Asshat quote of the day! Most the "Hood" have Pit Bulls, Mastiffs, Carrara and American Red Nose Bulls. There is no dog that can mess with this group. A trained Pit will destroy any dog on this planet! Nice one, Asshat!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at June 18, 2008 12:28 PM
I love Clinton Hill, Stuy Heights, Crown Heights etc. They are beautiful neighborhoods with beautiful housing stock.
I admire those who pioneer there (though I sometimes wonder if the prices haven't gotten out of whack.) And agree that 10 years from now you will all look like geniuses.
However, occasional random violence and crime is pretty much what you can expect until then.
It's have's moving in close proximity to have-nots, plain and simple.
(BTW: I grew up in Park Slope in the late 70's early 80's and it was pretty much the same then.)
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:28 PM
12.28 - that would be the spanish speakers who have those dogs.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:30 PM
"The What isn't afraid because, in his experience, even maurauding kids think a guy wearing a diaper and a suit of armor eating handfuls of Tang out of a bucket is pretty terrifying, and they tend to cross the street themselves."
oh man this has got to be bitch slap of the day. Handful of tang LOL. Gabby get on it!
On topic: I do see lots of early settlers in Bed Stuy with large dogs.I saw similar pioneers in PH in the late early 80's.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:31 PM
"You should carry a gun if you want to live in a ghetto like Clinton Hill or Ft. Greene. Just because you are a sucker and blew your life savings an a $1 million home in a black ghetto doesn't mean you will be safe. You should of bought in a nice, safe, white neighborhood like Bay Ridge if you were interested in a safe, family orientated neighborhood. You want to be hip and live with the black thugs, well that is your choice.
Safe and happy in Bay Ridge."
Hey Asshats! See this quote! this is from the heart of a real NYer! Who was born and raised here and understand the mechanic of this city. You Asshats should read this statement over and over again until it skinks in your Tofu encrusted brains!
Oh BTW if you are caught carrying a illegal handgun, that's 3.5 years is State prison! No if and or buts about it. Say hello to Bubba, he loves Asshats... LMMFAO
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at June 18, 2008 12:34 PM
12.28 - those are mean dogs, but they are as ghetto as flashy sneakers and ostentatious jewellery, no brownstone owner would be seen dead with them. Plus, the attacking kids don't have dogs.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:34 PM
I agree that many people make themselves targets. So many times I've seen women strolling down the street, yakking on their cell phones as their purses dangle from the other hand. I've seen people wearing iPods at night, carrying expensive lap tops. Many drunk people stumble home down deserted streets late at night. Keep your awareness and follow the simple preventive rules offered on this thread and you'll reduce your chances of being a victim.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:37 PM
12:28: I bought 21 years ago and already look like a genius. But I never thought of myself as "pioneering," and didn't treat my neighbors with that kind of attitude. They're just my neighbors, and we all belong to the block association, help each other with home renovation projects, exchange keys to take care of each other's houses when someone's on vacation or needs a petsitter, and look out for each other. And no, I would never walk around with an iPod or any other goodie that would attract idiot kids or make me less aware of my surroundings. Not in Clinton Hill, and not in Manhattan. Reward: cheap brownstone, no mortgage, good public transportation, and good neighbors.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 12:45 PM
I grew up in a gentrified neighborhood and it was actually much more dangerous than the ungentrified bad neighborhoods surrounding it. As a kid, our house was burglarized about once a year and pretty much every adult I knew had been mugged.
That experience is one reason I used to be pro-Williamsburg over brownstone Brooklyn, back when Williamsburg was blue-collar too. Now, of course, this is happening there too.
I'm still not understanding why the police can't crack down on this. In Williamsburg they have.
I realize the geography of Fort Greene -- long blocks, houses offset from the street, very few people on the street during the day in the residential sections -- works against it, but it would be great if the community could work on uniting itself against this sort of thing. Unfortunately, one side effect of gentrification is you lose a lot of the people who had the time and inclination to sit outside and be a part of the community.
It's also ironic that so many readers of this site consider those same people to be the bad element.
Posted by: Heather at June 18, 2008 12:46 PM
residents pool money to get a private security patrol service. that's what we did in the 80s when there actually was a significant safety issue.
Posted by: BrooklynLove at June 18, 2008 12:52 PM
"You can't bring your dog with you everywhere."
Then don't go to those places! Hey, I'm trying to help YOU out. I don't need the dog (although I do own one). Nobody messes with me.
"If there is one thing most poor black kids are afraid of it is dogs."
What an idiotic statement. First of all, you don't have to be "poor" to rob someone. Secondly, many black kids obviously own dogs. Hopefully you were being sarcastic. I didn't recommend getting a dog as a cure-all, just a strategy. Nothing is 100%.
"12.28 - that would be the spanish speakers who have those dogs."
Another ignorant comment. I recommended these breeds because 1) they are relatively easy to train 2) they don't need as much attention as some other working breeds 3) despite what anyone tells you, including "The What," a well-bred Shepherd or Rotweiler can more than handle any pit bull. 4) These breeds form close attachments with their owners and make great companions and watchdogs besides protectors.
"12.28 - those are mean dogs, but they are as ghetto as flashy sneakers and ostentatious jewellery, no brownstone owner would be seen dead with them. Plus, the attacking kids don't have dogs."
PIT BULLS are the choice breed of the "ghetto" mainly because they LOOK tough and they're easy to train for basement dog-fighting. As I said earlier, I'm just trying to help YOU out. If you don't want one of these dogs in your brownstone, don't get one, and get punked like Mr. Brownstoner. Finally, the point is not to fight your dog against another dog, moron. It's to have the dog at hand to protect you from "marauding teens." Shepheds and Rotweiliers won't necessarily START a fight, but if a WELL BRED one sees someone attack its master, there's going to be trouble.
"Safe and happy in Bay Ridge."
Bay Ridge is full of racist, white high-school drop-outs and wannabe mobsters. Not safe for non-whites.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:01 PM
And since there isn't a significant safety issue now, maybe we should just all calm down a bit.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at June 18, 2008 1:01 PM
Short of a dog or a limo to pick you up at your door, nothing much helps. it is a cycle.
As for after school programs, the only one that will help is called prison. If one is this sociopathic as a youngster (the years when idealism usually reigns) imagine what will happen as one gets older and more hardened. If you are bad at this age, you are more or less lost. Sad but true.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:04 PM
Arrest the t'What and end the crime wave.
But first you have to get him out of his diaper and take the armor off.
Enjoy the Tang, t'What
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:05 PM
what the hell r u talking about 11:53?this goes on everywhere in BK.Dont u read?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:08 PM
Brownstoner- You started the post with a specific goal of getting peope to report factually on real incidents- this was a good thing to do, and well needed. Please follow through and get rid of all the points that are just bluster and swagger or race-baits. Then this will be a worthwhile thread. You'll still get the page hits.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:14 PM
"Safe and happy in Bay Ridge."
Bay Ridge is full of racist, white high-school drop-outs and wannabe mobsters. Not safe for non-whites.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:01 PM
Actually it is full of white and arab business owners, tradespeople, professionals and police officers. It is not safe for black teen thugs and that is a positive. We take care of the crime problem here.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:14 PM
"The What isn't afraid because, in his experience, even maurauding kids think a guy wearing a diaper and a suit of armor eating handfuls of Tang out of a bucket is pretty terrifying, and they tend to cross the street themselves."
Only someone as deeply disturbed as "The What" himself could possibly conjure such a moronic image.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:15 PM
I bet all the folks scared of "marauding black teens" will be at the premiere of the Nororious BIG movie.
And will vote for Obama.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:19 PM
The what is in high-nincompoop gear today.
It is because of the fierce pitbulls in the projects that the kids grow up with total panic of dogs. I think they are taught that dogs will eat you alive by the time they are one year old.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:24 PM
"Why not move somewhere (with equal access to Manhattan) where it doesn't cost $1.5-2 million to buy a house that needs a full renovation; where you can walk around while actually listening to an Ipod; etc. What is so great about B'lyn again?"
I know two different women who were sexually assaulted by men who broke into their suburban homes in "good" neighborhoods.
If you think you're immune to crime because you live in the suburbs, you're an idiot.
Oh and any house in a decent school district in the suburbs we'd personally find acceptable DOES cost at least $1.5 million, sorry. A top school district being essential because that's the only f-ing way I'd spend $20-30K a year on property taxes every year we own the house even after the kids are in college and we're paying that tuition.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:24 PM
Or they'll vote for McCain and continue the downward spiral begun by the republicans.
Posted by: bxgrl at June 18, 2008 1:29 PM
This will keep going on for years.What do u expect from a city that has so much public housing and such high real state prices.U cant even buy a hand gun in a store in NY.Here in PHILLY (my beautiful city),u walk into a gun store,walk out with a gun in 15 minutes.Then apply for a permit to carry,and in about a week,u can walk the streets of philly with a gun in ur waist and it legal.I was born and raised in Coney Island,but philly is my home now.We keep little punks in check out here.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:29 PM
"Actually it is full of white and arab business owners, tradespeople, professionals and police officers. It is not safe for black teen thugs and that is a positive. We take care of the crime problem here."
Dude, you're agreeing with what the other guy said. That Bay Ridge is full of conservative racists who intimidate black people.
So appealing to affluent Liberals!
Not really.
You need to promote Bay Ridge to your own kind, not to wealthy liberals working in the arts and media. You know, the very people making all the other neighborhoods much more cool and rising in value faster than your neighborhood. If you want to make that happen in Bay Ridge too you need to drop the whole Italian thug routine. And vote for Obama.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:32 PM
Nokilissa
I'm 10.31 and I am male, average size, and white.
You do not have to be black to talk street. Listen to the kids around you as they talk and pick up the jargon. It's easy.
And I agree with some of the other posters. If it gets down to where it is you vs. a gang it is best to split. Don't argue with a gun. And never flash valuables ( IPODs are valuables) around a gang of 15 year old have nots.
My post is advice on how to avoid bad situations with punks, which I learned growing up in a tough part of Brooklyn and for me it has always worked. A true sociopath is a whole other story
That much said, and slightly off topic. A bunch of upper middle class twenty somethings, with a sense of entitlement, moving into a luxury building in a a bad nabe (lets call it not fully gentrified to satisfy some of the posters here)that somehow was non-ironicly named The MYNT is a crime spree waiting to happen.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:33 PM
bxgrl, by downward spiral you mean the record low crime levels. This is crime we're talking about right?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:35 PM
"Only someone as deeply disturbed as "The What" himself could possibly conjure such a moronic image."
What we should REALLY be up in arms over around here is the plight of those unfortunate souls born without funny bones. It's just so damn sad to watch them fruitlessly mash their palms against the keyboard.
**sobs uncontrollably, is grateful for own healthy sense of irony and appreciation for the absurd, clicks on HOTD link. **
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:36 PM
11:17 = Donald White Jr. from Winnetka, IL
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:37 PM
"Where I live in Bed Stuy none of this would be tolerated and the neighbors would be all over these kids. Its a community thing."
Tell that to the victim in the clinton hill attack described the other day. A disabled person called the cops after witnessing through their window a woman being attacked. When the kids started running away some local men hanging out were seen pointing them to the best escape routes. These guys apparently believe the hoodlum teens are their neighbors, but the new white buyers are just the evil gentry who should be robbed.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:37 PM
11:18, don't you and your friends have better things to do than post on whitey's RE blogs? You must have micrococks.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:38 PM
"Another ignorant comment. I recommended these breeds because 1) they are relatively easy to train 2) they don't need as much attention as some other working breeds 3) despite what anyone tells you, including "The What," a well-bred Shepherd or Rotweiler can more than handle any pit bull. 4) These breeds form close attachments with their owners and make great companions and watchdogs besides protectors."
Hey Asshat! I saw a Pit run up one a Rotweiler and tore a chunk out of his ass! The Rotweiler couldn't turn fast enough to defend itself then, the Pit go a hold of the Rotweiler leg and that's all she wrote. Pitts are some fast assed dogs and if they get a full head of stream, say goodnight Gracie... Big dogs can't handle fast moving short dogs. Pit are short and stocky and fast. They are my choice of great fighting dog!
"The What isn't afraid because, in his experience, even maurauding kids think a guy wearing a diaper and a suit of armor eating handfuls of Tang out of a bucket is pretty terrifying, and they tend to cross the street themselves."
Nice, very cite cute but, if you don't put you name on it, it don't mean anything!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at June 18, 2008 1:39 PM
1.33 - isn't it the robbers who have the sense of entitlement - they feel entitled to your stuff.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:45 PM
"Nice, very cite cute but, if you don't put you name on it, it don't mean anything!"
Aaaaaand you have just been successfully trolled, dear.
Shall I address the cases of Kleenex, Spam and Nutter Butters to "The What", General Delivery, Lodi, New Jersey?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:45 PM
For those truly concerned about marauding teenagers, get a dog. If you have one most of your time outside will be spent with the dog, and no one will bother you, even if the dog is not very big. It seems that for some reason Brooklyn kids (including teens) are inordinately afraid of dogs despite the large numbers of them in the community. I am always amazed by the fact that even semi-thugged out teenage boys will step wide over to the side as I and my very friendly and small-medium sized dog walk by. They will not try to mug you because even if not deathly afraid of dogs most of the criminally minded would rather go for another target without that x factor involved. And while walking a dog one always is alert to one's surroundings for the sake of avoiding confrontations with unfriendly dogs or having the dog cut off another pedestrian. Plus having a dog makes you more known in the hood and less of the anonymous neighbor that people (and cops) don't care much about.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:45 PM
What's with the idiotic get a dog advice? People aren't going to have their dog with them on their walk home from the subway after they leave work. People don't take their dog to work with them.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:47 PM
For some reason it's ridiculously funny conjuring up the image of Brownstoner being harassed by a bunch of fourteen years olds and fumbling for his phone quickly to call the cops. I’m sure the kids got a good laugh as well.
I may be an anomaly but I’m a petite white women living in Bed Stuy and I’ve never been harassed-except by the harmless drunks in front of the liquor store. Full disclosure: i work daily with children, so I know how to deal with kids. Be simple but yet firm with these kids and that would solve 95% of these incidents. Part of problem is that Brownstoner and the like walk in their neighborhoods like they are the only ones that exist. So of course people can take you by surprise, you never noticed them before anyway on your way to Choice every morning. Every once in while you’re reminded that you need to interact and recognize people’s humanity.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:50 PM
Idiotic comments like 10:37 are just mind-boggling.
What is with the "Welcome to Brooklyn" comments? There is nothing inherent in Brooklyn that causes this, nor are these incidents unique to Brooklyn. If anything, they are more common in other cities.
This doesn't happen in 80% of Brooklyn. It only happens in African American parts of Brooklyn. It does not happen in Asian, White, Latino, or immigrant black (West Indian or African) areas. Only "native" black teenagers do this nonsense. I have no idea why. Of course, most teenagers of all races would not consider such actions, but let's not kid ourselves about who does this nonsense.
As for the silly "kids are doing it because they are poor", what are you smoking? Latinos are the poorest residents of NYC, and they do not do this! Immigrant blacks have roughly the same incomes as native-born blacks, and they do not do this! It has nothing to do with economic poverty. This will not happen to you in Haitian/Jamaician East Flatbush, or in the African parts of the South Bronx. It will happen where there are concentrations of subsidized poor African Americans. Sad but true.
This has nothing to do with the economy. It has been going on for decades. If anything, it's much better than in past years.
Also, people are not being targeted because they are white. They are being targeted because they are "non-ghetto". Bougie blacks and anyone who looks semi-intelligent or gainfully employed could be a target. People wearing "Stop Snitching" T-shirts and rapping to themselves will be ignored because they are "down" with this twisted cultural norm.
The people who have not been mugged can shut up already. They are just lucky. These losers could victimize anyone who is not subscribing to their cultural norm.
The positive thing is that this is beginning to recede. Either these teenagers are less stupid or maybe it's just because this demographic is in severe decline throughout NYC. While the black population in NYC is in decline, the growing West Indian/African community is masking rapid decline in the African American community.
I wonder if places like Atlanta and Charlotte have an uptick in such incidents, since this is where many former residents are moving.
These incidents were MUCH more common 10 years ago, when it seemed like everyone had such a story. Now it is the exception and not the norm, and the police crack down on such patterns.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:52 PM
Quality thread. Hysteria, posturing, bullshit, race baiting, more hysteria, WhatSpew, more bullshit, occasional thoughtful post, more hysteria, some hysteria, some posturing and a little more WhatSpew.
Useless.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:53 PM
"What's with the idiotic get a dog advice? People aren't going to have their dog with them on their walk home from the subway after they leave work. People don't take their dog to work with them."
Disguise yourself as a "Blind Person" and put a handle on the dog! LMMFAO!!! Oh man, you Asshats crack me up. Hey Brownstoner if you have any "Beef", tell them you know The What. My Rep is Thorno...
Later Asshats!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at June 18, 2008 1:57 PM
"Actually it is full of white and arab business owners, tradespeople, professionals and police officers. It is not safe for black teen thugs and that is a positive. We take care of the crime problem here."
Oh yeah, I forgot Bay Ridge's crooked cops, boiler-room hustlers and potential terrorists. My bad.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 1:57 PM
Affluent Liberal,
Do you think voting for Obama makes you cool or in touch with the black community? You think if you have an Obama button they will leave you alone?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:00 PM
1:37...I agree with you...but THAT wouldn't happen in the part of Bed Stuy that I live in. Other parts, CH...I guess so.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 2:01 PM
you are right about the potential terrorists in Bay Ridge, the muslims are a problem. But having them close lets us keep an eye on them.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:02 PM
"Hey Asshat! I saw a Pit run up one a Rotweiler and tore a chunk out of his ass! The Rotweiler couldn't turn fast enough to defend itself then, the Pit go a hold of the Rotweiler leg and that's all she wrote. Pitts are some fast assed dogs and if they get a full head of stream, say goodnight Gracie... Big dogs can't handle fast moving short dogs. Pit are short and stocky and fast. They are my choice of great fighting dog!"
That's because you were watching a PUNK Rotweiler, dude. I happen to kmnow a Rotweilier (again, WELL BRED) who would throw away a pit bull like a elephant swatting away a lion. All of this Pit Bull propaganda is SO overblown. I own a boxer who is faster and stronger than any pit bull. Twice, when pit bulls lunged at him in the street, he swatted them away, stood in front of them in a "Make your move," stance, and the pit bulls backed off. As you said, they make great fighting dogs mainly because they will do just about anything you train them to do, including tear each other apart. But this image of pit bulls as "super" dogs is just another urban myth. You don't know your dogs.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:03 PM
Friday is bring your dog to work day. I'm not kidding.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 2:04 PM
the same thing happened to me about a year ago on Lafayette at Grand, broad daylight on a Sunday. I did get bonked on the head, but not very hard. It was a swarm of ten year olds, which is why I hadn't really paid attention. FWIW: I'm 5'8", female, 42 years old, I look white, and I've lived in the neighborhood for a dozen years.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:07 PM
1:19 — "I bet all the folks scared of "marauding black teens" will be at the premiere of the Nororious BIG movie.
And will vote for Obama."
IDIOT. NUFF SAID.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:07 PM
What r u talking about 1:52.This happends in bay ridge, bensonhurst,coney island,sunset park,and flatbush.U should get out more.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:10 PM
"For some reason it's ridiculously funny conjuring up the image of Brownstoner being harassed by a bunch of fourteen years olds and fumbling for his phone quickly to call the cops."
No kidding! How lame. I think Brooklyn is a little too much for you, Mr. Brownstoner man.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:11 PM
1:50 nails it. Those kids smell your fear. Brownstoner a grown man scurries away like a mouse because some kid is making faces? Like many posters have said you can't avoid every situation but be alert and confident and you can avoid many.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:13 PM
Gabby...how you going to pick a Quote of the Day from this mess???!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 2:13 PM
Let's not forget one thing. Maurauding teenagers are not unique to Fort Greene. It was a group of maruading teens that chased a man to his death on the Belt Parkway in Howard Beach and shot a man who made the mistake of going to Bensonhurst to buy a used car.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:13 PM
It was a group of maruading teens that chased a man to his death on the Belt Parkway in Howard Beach and shot a man who made the mistake of going to Bensonhurst to buy a used car.
When was this 20 years ago. and that is your one example.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:15 PM
I used to have a dog that would just bark and growl at any black person that walked by. It was so embarrasing. He was a totally racist dog. Unbelievable, and I couldn't figure out why. Anyway, trust me, black folks would cross to the other sidewalk when they saw me and my crazy dog coming.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:15 PM
"you are right about the potential terrorists in Bay Ridge, the muslims are a problem. But having them close lets us keep an eye on them."
If you're an NYC cop, you have about as much chance of catching a real terrorist as you have of negotiating a apropriate contract. It's completely beyond your means. Stick to comething you know, like busting turnstile-jumpers.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:17 PM
Help me out, people:
If a white person is walking in a black Brooklyn neighborhood, does that mean s/he is an affluent and entitled liberal? You know, by default?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:17 PM
What:
So dogs can be "well bred", but the same doesn't apply to humans?
Funny how the dogs in this borough always seem so much better behaved. Now I get it.
Posted by: Polemicist at June 18, 2008 2:22 PM
100% agreement with 1:50. Seriously. The incident that spawned this whole thread was essentially brownstoner getting teased by a group of kids. They laughed at him, took him by surprise, and all of a sudden he makes the assumption that they're out to steal his wallet or iPhone and runs across the street.
Let's get some perspective here. I don't mean to be harsh or dismissive, and I'm sympathetic to plight of people who've been mugged or accosted by a group of kids. On the very pages of this blog many times over the past few months brownstoner has reported shootings and gun violence in his neighborhood. I myself have had run-ins twice with a group of three teenagers in my neighborhood. (Both ended with me looking at them as if they were ridiculous, them laughing and hurling a couple of insults, and they and I both going on our way.) But part of the equation that's being left out is the assumption that violence is the necessary next step in any interaction with a group of kids who are enjoying what little power they have by picking on oblivious people roaming around the neighborhood as if these kids are invisible. And it happens all the time out here. Is it any wonder things escalate when, instead of looking at the kid like the little blockhead they are and sending the message that their attempts to intimidate are wasted on you, you immediately begin fumbling with your phone and running away?
And carrying a weapon of any sort is stupid. If you've taken a self-defense class of any sort, you know that a weapon is far more likely to be taken from you and used against you than it is to save you from a violent attack. The introduction of the weapon escalates things from frightening to terrifying and life-threatening immediately. Please don't let's start thinking that every kid who throws a snowball at us and calls us "b**tch" is going to pound us into the dirt. And if someone does mug you, give them your stuff and report it to the police. That is an actionable offense. Simply getting called names and laughed at isn't actionable, is a waste of police time and energy, and might very well be part of the reason cops don't come running every time a person cries "assault!" when someone gives them the finger.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:22 PM
the what dog fighting?
nothing but asshats do that
i love dogs do not get one for protection get one for a pet and a companion
dog fighting -freaking lowlife
bay ridge? might as well be staten island
none of this crap happens in my area
and i pay alot less then most of you people pay
if you do not like it move or change your routine
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:24 PM
It was a group of maruading teens that chased a man to his death on the Belt Parkway in Howard Beach and shot a man who made the mistake of going to Bensonhurst to buy a used car.
When was this 20 years ago. and that is your one example.
No that's the only example that makes the news, but if you like I can tell you about the number of times (and it has happenned more than once) I have been told loudly "Hey N*****r, get f**k out of this neighborhood" and it was a lot more recent than twenty years ago.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:24 PM
As Brooklyn gentrifies and the section 8 crowd continues to get priced out, these types of incidents will decrease.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:24 PM
There has been quite a few muggings in Williamsburg lately, where I live.
About a month ago a girl was robbed at gunpoint on the corner of Meeker and Lorimer St.
Nowhere in the city is immune, especially in Brooklyn where police presence isn't as heavy as in Manhattan.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:26 PM
wow. this is one time when i simply could not agree with the What any more if I tried.
millions of dollars to live in the hood is so insanely dumb.
buying in cobble hill back in the day when it was cheap made sense. italians kept the hood safe.
i first bought a brownstone in brooklyn when clinton hill and fort greene homes ranged from like $150-$450, and i wouldn't have considered it then any more than now with these crazy prices.
i don't care how much your stupid white ass thinks you love those black kids from the hood, it doesn't matter because THEY HATE YOU. you are not immune because you have romantic ideas of 2 completely different cultures co-mingling happily.
what the hell do you think is going to happen when today's brownstone pre-schoolers are teens themselves and out on the street with this violence??? are you preparing your toddler to fight off roving gangs? would love to see that special class - does it follow music for aardvarks?
shit, LIC and Williamsburg are going to fill up with head to toe yuppies and you'll still be living next to one of the biggest projects in history.
why don't you tell some people that they should blow their life savings to live in a victorian house at all costs.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:28 PM
dogs hate black people-
my 120lbs female huge headed rottie would smack the crap out of any dog (may she rest in peace)
pit bulls? huh yeah right ghetto trash
rottweilers kick ass- best dog for loyalty
i work nights sometimes and my wife is home alone with my mixed rottie-shephard (who is btw a puppy from my rotties litter)
come to my house on that bullshit and and your leaving in a body bag trust me
my dog is not for protection but she would die to save my wife and myself
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:31 PM
2:28 - Cobble Hill back then is like Williamsburg now. They Italian and Polish population seem to keep the southsiders in check. There are alot more easy targets in Williamsburg, but you don't hear about gangs of 12 year olds trying to mug adults.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:31 PM
2:13, your comments are 20 years old.
There are not marudading teenagers in other neighborhoods, and while both incidents were racist and tragic, the victims were not random. In both cases they were thought to be criminals. No black man walking down 18th Avnenue in Bensonhurst in 2008 will be randomly assulted.
2:10, this does NOT happen in places like Sunset Park or Flatbush, unless there are packs of native-born teen African Americans in these neighborhoods. You will not see Mexican kids or Jamaician kids do this nonsense. They have intact families and non-alien cultural norms.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:32 PM
"No black man walking down 18th Avnenue in Bensonhurst in 2008 will be randomly assulted."
Complete bulls**t. He'd be chased out of there so fast by the area's crooked cops, wannabe mobsters, high-school drop-outs and other white street trash so fast his damned head would spin.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:40 PM
2:40, it is quite obvious you know nothing about Bensonhurst in 2008. The Chinese are going to chase out the blacks?
There is very little "white street trash" in Bensonhurst. The Italians all moved to Staten Island or PA. The Chinese (and to a lesser extent, the Russians and Arabs) have taken over.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:45 PM
This thread is crap...These muggings are in Crown Heights/Bed Stuy and some shady areas of Fort Greene...Its like anywhere you just dont walk the streets at 2am...Going walking the streets on the UES and something could happen...
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:47 PM
2:40 has no idea what he is talking about. 18th Avenue is no longer heavily Italian. Bensonhurst is now a Queens-like ethnic mix.
Chinese, Hasids, Indians, Russians, etc..
There are many Africans and West Indians working in the stores on 18th Ave.
Blacks will be ignored in Bensonhurst.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:49 PM
"2:10, this does NOT happen in places like Sunset Park or Flatbush, unless there are packs of native-born teen African Americans in these neighborhoods. You will not see Mexican kids or Jamaician kids do this nonsense."
lmao so untrue.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:53 PM
Poverty doesn't create crime, crime creates poverty. Character determines a lot of things in life. Being poor doesn't make you a criminal, but criminals are often poor because they don't have the character to make an honest living.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:55 PM
2.55 - agree, see chinatown, hasidic williamsburg, polish greenpoint. mainly poor. crimes against the person - very low.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:57 PM
Ok, 2:53, please give me examples of Mexicans or Jamaicians assulting non-ghetto types for sport...
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:58 PM
When being harassed by marauding (wilding) teenagers, turn around and face them, put your hands on either side of your head and point your index fingers forward to indicate mock bull horns. Then snort and scuff your feet back like you're going to charge. If they don't panic and run off, charge into their midst while screaming "I know Vince Carter." At which point they will embrace you, raise you up on their shoulders and parade you around the 'hood.
If that doesn't work, run in front of a speeding car.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 2:59 PM
"are you preparing your toddler to fight off roving gangs? would love to see that special class - does it follow music for aardvarks?"
I will have you know that my child got a check PLUS in Music for Aardvarks, a gold star AND a smiley-face in Dancing With Dromedaries, and blew the curve for the final in Mental Pottery. And, yes, they will indeed be prepared to fight off roving gangs....as soon as we find one. They seem to be hiding in Clinton Hill most of the time, but we've been sure to let all grade levels know they should be very, very afraid of them. Particularly if they are black.
And after we do find a roving gang, we are going to first attempt a mass hugging. If that fails, we shall set the preschoolers loose on their kneecaps with Nerf baseball bats. (This will be followed cookies and lattes at Connecticut Muffin; will post in the forum with the details as soon as I have them.)
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:00 PM
Random acts of kindness was proposed by a black woman.
Posted by: Bold type guest at June 18, 2008 3:05 PM
# 1 .I think what you do Is install cameras on the outside of your homes. #2 ask the NYPD Commanding Officer from your Precinct to see about installing Cameras on the Telephone poles like they are doing all over the city including 5th ave in Sunset Park. #3 start going to community meetings. #4 Start complaining more to 911 and 311 about any issues in the nabe. #5 call 311 for any Graffiti issues and any little derelict problems. #6 Any crimes caught on camera bring to NYPD and post on YoUtube. Overall Crime will continue to go down but there will always be something going on.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:05 PM
I hear Al Sharpton and his Network are encouraging the youngins to attack as an answer to gentrification.
Enough muggings and you'll head back to Westchester and Long Island.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:06 PM
I remember back in the day, after it got dark I'd walk down the center of the street, never the sidewalk, and hold my keys sticking out between my fingers like brass knuckles. Once, at 4 AM I was walking down Elizabeth towards Prince in the city when that was still a major drug street, I saw a guy kneeling behind a van looking up the sidewalk waiting for someone to mug. I actually laughed when I saw him and he shrugged his shoulders and laughed back as if to say, I gotta do what I gotta do.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at June 18, 2008 3:09 PM
3:09 ........yeah, good times..
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:12 PM
so what is the answer? who will win the war for Brooklyn.
Here is a hint: those projects aint goin' nowhere.
+ all the pandering for "affordable" housing by your elected officials - where anything "market rate" = "luxury" - this current waive is a small blip before the decline continues yet again.
There is a reason why are parents left these places.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:21 PM
Brownstoner gonna change his name to crabgrass becuase soon he is gonna be blogging from Montclair, New Jersey.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:24 PM
no way 3:21 we will all hold hands
the brownstoners and the pj dwellers and hold hands on 5th ave in the slope and sing cumbayah my lord together
brooklyn will be one big happy family
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:27 PM
Grow a beard like Kimbo Slice.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:30 PM
If it wasnt for the selfish dhouchebag republicans demanding tax cuts our infrastructure and services like the police force, and social outreach programs wouldnt be stretched thin. Less of these crimes would be happening.
But when faced with the results of their failed policies, what do asshat republicans do? Blame everyone else. They never take blame for their own failures. They always blame the gays, the illegals, the democrats, the boogeyman
Pussies.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:32 PM
Hey hey, ha ha say what say what
Ha ha bust it yo
Sometimes I feel like I don't have a partner
Sometimes I feel like my only friend
Is the city I live in, is beautiful Brooklyn
Long as I live here believe I'm on fire hey
Cuz it's the B-the-R-the-O-the-O-K
L-Y-N is the place where I stay
The B-the-R-the-O-the-O-K
Best in the world and all USA
It's the B-to-the-R-the-O-the-O-K
L-Y-N is the place where I stay
The B-to-the-R-the-O-the-O-K
Place where I rest is on my born day
Bust it, sometimes I sit back and just reflect
Watch the world go by and my thought connect
I think about the time past and the time to come
Reminesce on Bed-Stuy when I was pride and young
I used to try and come, to the neighborhood function
Throw on my Izod, say a little something
When I was just a youngin, before the days of thuggin
How me and Charlie Chims (aiyyo what?) I'm only buggin
Fast forward, Nine-Now I gotta team my seed
I must proceed at God's speed to perform my deed
Livin the now space and time, round the nine to five
For as long as I'm alive, paw I got to strive
I ain't sittin roadside, that ain't harder to plan
I'm out here for my fam doin all that I can
I love my city, sweet and gritty in land to outskirts
Nickname Bucktown cuz we grown to outburst
Philosophy redefine us, touch mines I touch back
Walk the streets like a sweet and get beat like drum tracks
Catch no shakes over jakes (boomp-boomp!) we bust back
Bring the marty to your face wit no place to run back
I'm from the slums that created the bass that thump back
This ain't a game clown, play ya James Brown and jump back
What you want, Jack? Young cats stash they jums at
Draw they guns back, momma screams where she sons at
Tryin to hunt that, recurring dream of high stakes
The fourth largest, first hardest, Brooklyn is the place
Settled by the Dutch many years ago,
Three million strong, and here we go
*part two*
[Mos Def]
GOOD MORNINNNNNNNNNGG VIETNAM!!!
Ha (back up back up back up back up back up)*repeated in background*
Yo sometimes I sit back, reflect on the place that I live at
Unlike any place I ever been at
The home of big gats, deep dish hammer rim caps
Have a mishap, push ya wig back
Where you go to get the fresh trim at
Four on the jake got the Timb rack
Blue collars metro carding it
Thugs mobbin it, form partnership
Increase armorment, street pharmacist
Deep consequence, when you seek sleek ornaments
You get caught, rode the white horse and can't get off
Big dogs that trick off just get sent off
They shoebox stash is all they seeds gotta live off
It's real yo but still yo, it's love here
And it's felt by anybody that come here
Out of towners take the train, plane and bus here
Must be something that they really want here
One year as a resident, deeper sentiment
Shoutout "Go Brooklyn!", they representin it
Sittin on they front stoop sippin Guinesses
Usin native dialect in they sentences
>From the treeline blocks to the tenaments
To the Mom & Pop local shop menaces
Travel all around the world in great distances
And ain't a place that I know that bear resemblance
That's why we it The Planet
Not a borough or a prov, it's our style that's uncalm
>From ?sun? to the ? to the Lafayette Gardens
White ?coff guawinas? in they army jacket linings
Yo this goes out to my cats in Coney Isle
Friday night out in front The Himalaya goin wild
This goes out to Crown Heights and Smurv Village
The nighties, and all my ?yarda trenny? Brown's Village
Parkside tennants caught, thirties, forties, and the fifties
The cats out in Starite City gettin busy
To the Hook, to the East, to the Stuy
Bushwick and Kanarcy, Farraget, Fullgreen, and Marcy
My Flatbush posse, generals of armies
When it's time to form, just call me
And let this song be, playin loud in Long B
If you love Bucktown STRONGLY!
RAISE IT UP!
*part three*
[Mos Def]
Brooklyn my habitat, the place where it happen at
Live sway and the sharp balance of the battle axe
Irons is brandished at, thugs draw they hammer back
It's where you find the News 2 crew cameras at
It's where my fam is at, summertime jame is at
They play Big and get you open like a sandal back
Hotter than candle wax, hustlin you can't relax
The crack babies tryin to find where they mama's at
It's off the handle black, wit big police scandals that
Turn into actions screenplays sold to Miramax
The type of place where they check your appearance at
And cats who know where all the hot 'lo gear is at
The stompin grounds, where you find a pound, smoke is that
Be blazin charm that have your wave cap floatin back
The doorstep where the disposessed posted at
Dope fiends out at Franklin Ave sellin zovarax
You big ballin better keep your money folded back
Cuz once the young guns notice that it's over, black
Brooklyn keep on takin it, worldwide we known for that
Flossy cats get it snatched like the local tax
The place I sharpen up my baritone vocals at
Where one of the greatest MC's was a local cat
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:34 PM
3:32 - yeah just like that douchebag Republican Gulianni's failed policies led to the biggest crime rate reduction not just in this city's history, but bigger than any city in American ever witnessed.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at June 18, 2008 3:37 PM
I guess you Idiot's who are skeptical will just move to New Jersey (Bankrupt) or Florida foreclosure and just watch the birds fly bye and eat at the Cheesecake factory. Don't get fooled folks Big money is coming to a house near you and it's called Abu Dubai they are buying NYC , the whole thing. Better get what you can get here now because there ain't much left to buy. Unless of course you are ready for some boring life in Westchester or Idaho.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:40 PM
10:37 here responding to 1:52PM
Welcome to Brooklyn means exactly what it sounds like...exactly what it meant in the opening of welcome back kotter, exactly what it meant in 'the warriors' exactly what 'down these mean streets' chronicles and before all that exactly what Jacob Riis chronicled and Hugo and Balzac before him, urbanity forces a confrontation between haves and have nots.
we, the idealized brownstoner reader, have somehow said - I am living in the city because I want to - that MEANS dealing with the city. yes that means having to deal with alternate side of the street parking, subways, the poor and the ultra rich.
and what doesn't happen in 80% of brooklyn? did you not see the Marine Park puncher last week? what about the orthodox jew who accosted the black kid in crown heights a couple of weeks ago?
I am also sure that the media gives us full accounts of everyday crime in: Parkville, Canarsie, E. NY, Brownsville, E. Flatbush, Bensonhurst, Bushwick, Lefferts Gardens, Bed Stuy, Cypress Hills, I hear COney Island is GREAT @ 0200
To say this is getting better is also fooloish, pull up your local pct.ts Stat sheet. Some crimes in my 'hood have goon up 700% in 1 year (from 2 incidents to 9, but still...)
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:41 PM
I can't wait to hear about "victim" attacking some kids before they get touched and getting arrested and thrown in jail for attacking kids. And the riots that will follow....
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:42 PM
Where's Al Sharpton?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 3:51 PM
Brooklynnative...on that we agree.
Posted by: Bold type guest at June 18, 2008 4:06 PM
Kimbo Slice is a bitch who should have lost to that tomato can on cbs a few weeks back
George St. Pierre and Anderson Silva
now those are some tough dudes and
don't sleep on Roger Huerta or BJ penn
KImbo is all hype with no real skills
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 4:06 PM
1 - White people who live in black neighborhoods are prone to think race is 100% the reason for whatever crap they are dealt. The reality is teenagers are nuts, some more than others, and they will satisfy whatever chemical need that violence satisfies whether the victim is white, brown, or black. They will pick on anyone they think they can take. End of story.
2 - It is PRIDE that would makes you feel stupid or weak for not fighting back. If you want to risk getting beat up to protect your pride, then go for it. But it is not weak to turn the other cheek.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 4:11 PM
I was once confronted by a roving group of exceptional children in Park Slope. They surrounded me, then proceeded to tickle me until I cried.
What should I have done?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 4:24 PM
How about those confrontations that we all have with two or three stroller moms? Its not only when they come up behind you but even when you're facing them head-on they raise your blood pressure to the boiling point.
The entitlement of these white women with their $600- 1,200 strollers is what makes people sorry they evr learned of brooklyn...especially Park Slope!
Posted by: Bold type guest at June 18, 2008 4:28 PM
4:24
Where was your stroller?
and your child??
and what were you doing home early enough for children to be awake? how can you afford to live in PS and NOT Be at work until 0200?
imposter.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 4:29 PM
First, don't waste your time reading blogs if you feel you are not prepared for being harrassed, assaulted or mugged. Take at least a few, (one is not enough), street self-defense classes. Take classes where you actually are hit & learn to hit back; learning to yell is important too. You will learn how to avoid situtions in the first place (most important) & deal with them physically and/or verbally if you have to. You can reduce your risk but you cannot eliminate it. This is life. If something serious does happen to you you should file a police report. blogging will not solve your problem; stop wasting your time & instead contact you local martial arts center & sign up; you'll reduce your risk & gain some confidence. for those who want to discuss MMA; see you on Bodog but not in this forum. Osu.
Posted by: brooklyndown at June 18, 2008 4:29 PM
these kids definitely not afraid of dogs. i took a pic of them right after brownstoner's "incident"
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff161/finos3/ghetto202ou522.jpg
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 4:34 PM
Man that's some pic 4:34. Hyenas & baboons!! What city is that??
Posted by: Bold type guest at June 18, 2008 4:37 PM
http://www.1010wins.com/Tourist-Fights-Off-Attacker/2436510
1. This occurred on the Upper East Side.
2. Potential "victim" showed lots of guts, unlike scaredy cat Mr. Brownstoner.
3. She's pretty good-looking!
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 4:43 PM
my sister was jumped by a large group (8-10) of teenagers last week on willoughby right near home depot, before it was even dark out. they hit her on the back of the head, knocked her to the ground, kicked and punched her all over her body until she gave up her bag (with her laptop in it). she is a freelance writer--the laptop's her livelihood--and living in bed-stuy. some nice people saw it happen, one guy went after the kids and got her bag back. another couple walked her home. 15 minutes later the police picked up three teenage girls around the corner--they pulled the same stunt. of course, no one could ID anyone and the teenagers scattered.
i'm all being aware, but that's hard to do when you're 5'1", caught by surprise, way outnumbered and lying on the ground getting kicked.
if she had been hurt worse, the cops may have done something. she reported it, but without an ID or anything to go on, it was obvious they weren't going to follow up (even though at least 3 people saw the whole thing).
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 4:44 PM
4:34 - that's laugh out loud funny.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at June 18, 2008 4:44 PM
Actually Giuliani had very little to do with the decrease in crime. He took office just after the crack epidemic peaked and the number of police was increased substantially (intitially by Dinkins, by the way, mostly with federal funds from the Clinton administration). Then the police started using Jack Maple's compstat program to identify problem crime areas. Also, check the FBI statistics for that period. Crime in almost every large city decreased just as much as it did in NYC during that time period.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 4:51 PM
"Freakonomics" 4:51
Posted by: Bold type guest at June 18, 2008 4:55 PM
Why does Rev Al get a bad rap? At least he helps in raising awareness to issues that others don’t care about. We have very few leaders in our community that are consistent and are at the front lines helping us recover from the crap that we been through.
I was in high school during the Bensonhurst march and seeing and hearing those Italianos, young and old rally against him with all that hate was scary.
In the 60’s before white flight your parents in Brownstone Brooklyn were bashing MLK. Cut Al some slack or be quite the majority of black people I know admire his guts.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 4:55 PM
this is very sad and i feel for anyone who is mugged. definitly learn some self-defense or carry a baseball bat around. these teenage pussies need to be destroyed. walk tall and never show fear. body language is everything. i have never been bothered by these pussies or anyone else but if i was you would hear me blocks away. i sometimes wish you good, kind, hardworking people in the neighborhood were psychotic like me when it's time to throw down. when i am walking around and see someone shady you better believe my hands are closed tight. i am not trying to act like a tough guy at all but it's either you are them. we live in a evil world.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:01 PM
Send the kids to Iraq. I think this is a legit solution. Gangs and dumbass kids should be sent to fight wars. If they survive they'll learn some respect. If they die... well, problem solved.
I say this as my dumbass cousin is in the US Navy. If he dies... well, that's a shame. But truth be told it was the military or jail for the kid. Better he dies a man than goes to jail!
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:11 PM
Honestly-- who are these idiots who think this is about jobs? No kid wants a job. They want money, but no kid wants a job. The macroeconomic slowdown that has cut employment rolls mostly in manufacturing, financial services and construction has absolutely nothing to do with why some punk kids are robbing people.
I realize that throws off your class warfare meta-narrative, but sometimes a punk kid is just a punk kid.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:18 PM
Damn I'm gald I'm not in your familiy.
What about the surviving and learning respect part?
Is that not an option for your cousin?
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:19 PM
Thank you 5:18.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:21 PM
"Why does Rev Al get a bad rap?"
Two word answer: "Tawana Brawley"
Our esteemed "Reverend" knew she was mentally unstable and that she was lying. Everyone in her community who knew her knew this to be the case and knew that her family was abusive. She was sleeping over at her boyfriend's house and wanted to avoid punishment and made up a grandiose lie. One of the men she accused of raping her then committed suicide. "Reverend" Al has yet to apologize or to aknowledge this.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at June 18, 2008 5:22 PM
yes 5:18 and this culture of victimhood, and assumed racism by everyone gives them an excuse to not go to school, not pay attention, never learn to read or write - don't want to act white and all - but then expect the man to pay the bills via foodstamps, welfare, project housing, OR worse: by violence and muggings.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:24 PM
Al Sharpton is a Class A bigot. Comparing him to MLK is an insult to King.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:24 PM
Here is a secret: White people hate Al Sharpton.
I would like to see him protest/speak out against crime committed by blacks to blacks, and yes whites.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:27 PM
Even if there are 1,000 "marauding teenagers" in Brooklyn, that represents such an insignificant fraction of the kids out there that you're completely diminishing the hard work and good decisions made by the overwhelming majority of poor and lower middle class kids when you imply that these punks don't have a choice.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:28 PM
5:18... keep in mind that most of these posters don't actually know any poor people, they just have an idea of one as a statistical category, so naturally its about jobs or inequality.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:29 PM
Oh because he didnt apologize. I get it now "Brooklyn Native". thanks
5:24 your mammy and pappy hated MLK.
5:27 not all the cops in the Sean Bell case were white.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:46 PM
I know that 2 out of 3 cops in the Sean Bell case are BLACK, but I bet you most people and definately most black people don't know that.
The press and the protestors and Al always spun it as white cops vs black man.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 5:50 PM
Personally, I believe military service should be compulsory for anyone under 21 convicted of a crime. We need to set the minimum enlistment age to 16 again, so these kids can just get out of the high schools and into boot camp.
Posted by: Polemicist at June 18, 2008 5:54 PM
Al didnt spin it. He always rallied against police brutality. The press spun it around to a white and black thing so sheep like you will say Al did it.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 6:03 PM
WOW...I was just on the A train on my way home and all of a sudden a group of black teenage yootz get on and want me to cough up $1.00 for this white trash candy: Peanut M&Ms, Oreos or Starburst. I didn't know whether to fall on the floor, yell or try some kung foo kick.
I don't like any of those candies so I held my ground and now I feel better for it.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 18, 2008 6:06 PM
Call the cops, the response time in Williamsburg is great. I will like to add my neighbor who's lived in the burg forever loves the new influx of people, and the building of condos in what was once empty lots and run down buildings. Yes we all can live together. It's great that an influx of money has been brought to once very poor hoods. And no all the folk that were here before the influx are staying, there rent stablized apts are going no where. Its a shame to see some the smug remarks about people getting hurt. There is no excuse for violence... White guilt is self centered.It's no wonder the socialist way of life hasn't taken off in the states because it's presented with hate, and anger. Say hello to your neighbors (brown, black, or white), offer them helping hand and your friendship.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 6:06 PM
You know what would help? Bringing back racial profiling. Five 15 and 16 year old black kids wandering around in a gang during school hours MAYBE, MAYBE should draw some police attention.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 6:12 PM
Tear down the f'in projects. Force these poor black kids to actually PAY to live in NYC like the rest of us, or they can scatter across the country and die out.
Amazing how POOR people of every race can still manage to function in society except for the blacks. But I guess they don't need to when white liberals will stand up and defend every crime they perpetuate.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 6:19 PM
I live on the boarder of this quagmire clintonhill / bed-stuy neighborhood and I don't think that there is anything normal about this sort of behavior. I'm a female, 22 year old photographer priced out of park slope and the burg. I'm not from new york (i'm from san francisco) and i really love this neighborhood and I think that those moving in should give back and not live in fear of a bunch of dumb kids....that being said many muggings take place all over this city by groups of teens (i'm hard pressed to believe that clilnton hill is some sort of out of this world unique place) - and it's a problem!!!!! not something we should just LIVE WITH or move out of...what's the problem with making the hood a bit better????
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 6:23 PM
Saw a bunch of kids out of control yesterday at Smith & Warren. Were jumping on the roofs of parked cars and blocking traffic in the street.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 6:50 PM
A few weeks ago three kids tried to rob me in Ft. Greene Park... in the middle of the day. I saw it coming and said, basically, f*ck you, bring it on, which was probably a mistake. Instead of exiting the park like I should, I challenged them. (Admittedly, I'm 6'3", 230 lbs) When push came to shove I decided not to fight, rather to leave the situation. Silly me. But I kept my digicam, tools, money, ID, credit cards, and so on.
I hadn't planned to call the cops as no words were exchanged and no weapons displayed but when I left the park I realized the scenario was to attack me from behind, and as that violated my sense of street ethics (give me the choice man to man to fight or give it up) I decided to call the cops.
I was impressed at the speed of the police response; they were on South Elliott and DeKalb before I was half a block away. They grabbed all three of them still in the park. When I met with the cops, who picked me up to ID them, they said whenever this happens they just drive to the PJ side of the park and round them up, as that's where they live.
I don't know what ultimately happened to them but they were running warrant checks on them. If there were no warrants they would have been free to go. But the cops also told me they would enter their names in some database and pay attention to them (Guiliani fans note, ComStat and the police new-found ability to use computers was a big reason for the reduction in crime).
To those who say Hispanics don't rob anyone, I made two of three of them as Dominican, but hey, not all of y'all can tell the difference.
I grew up in West Harlem in the 1960s so I've been around a while, and I agree with the posters that say attitude and keeping the eyes open will go a long way. But it won't go all the way.
Funny thing is I carry a legal quick-opening knife with a 4" blade everywhere all the time, but this was a one of very few days I had to go in a Federal building, so I left it home. Pulling a weapon will definitely make things interesting, but not necessarily against you. There is the chance you will lose control of it, but also the chance they will move on to an easier mark. And of course you have the option of not pulling it.
Lotta people here have opinions as to what to do, but there is no one size fits all. Every situation has to be analyzed and acted upon as it occurs. The more time you have to analyze, the more time you have to make the correct decision. Keep your eyes open, don't let anyone get the element of surprise. I have an Ipod like everyone but I never carry it on the street, I use it to carry music from home to car to my country home. The one thing I don't ever believe in is to just give it up. Giving it up is still no guarantee you won't get hurt.
If everyone just gives it up especially to a coupla ten year old girls all that does is show them how easy white fools are and encourage them to do it again. Robbery begins with an R as does Risk. Take the Risk outta Robbery and we're all in trouble.
In the last 35 years I've lived here (my entire adult life) this was only the third attempt against me. In the other two I was aware, and when I made it clear I wouldn't just give it up, they moved on. One time was on the exit from the BB, another on 6th ave and Flatbush. Yet another time three kids on Pierrepont followed me expecting me to turn onto Monroe. I did a 180 and walked right thru the three of them. Do the unexpected.
I hear the woman who said she is 5'1". Fighting is not an option, but if you see things in time, running is. If I was that size I could fly like the wind, lol.
As to the ijits who say the answer is to work with the kids, that's fine and dandy, but the kids you work with may not be the ones to kill you. I seem to remember a Hunter College grad student who dedicated her life to social work, who was stabbed to death on the street in PH a few years ago. I've made it a point to hire ex-offenders in my biz, and I think over the years we've got along fine. Don't mean they won't kill some other person, or their friends won't kill me.
It is what it is, and if you're gonna live in the hood, you're gonna be at some risk. Racism isn't what it used to be, and as Mr. Mfume said not too long ago, today's problem is not racism but white privilege. While these kids may not be able to define white privilege as being able to confidently enter your local pharmacy and buy a band-aid that matches your skin color, they get the general gist of things.
"It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from going under "
Be safe.
Posted by: denton at June 18, 2008 7:10 PM
6:19--I have seen lots of disgusting posts on this blog over the past few months but yours takes the cake.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 7:10 PM
4:51, are you nuts? There are only a few large cities in the entire country that have a lower murder rate than NYC. There are many reasons to hate and discredit Rudy, but his single-mindedness about fighting crime and the successful results are not one of them.
In 2007 Philadelphia, with a population of 1.5 million, had 394 murders. If NYC had the same murder rate we would have something like 2,200 murders.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 7:23 PM
"Do you think voting for Obama makes you cool or in touch with the black community? You think if you have an Obama button they will leave you alone?"
They DO leave me alone. With or without my Obama button. I live in a black neighborhood. Never had a problem.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 7:34 PM
The thing is, these kids figure they are in a "white" area and figure they'll get some cheap payback for white privilege and just harass or assault any white person. The constant prtraya in videos that any minute, black males will get arrested, they figure, hey, if it's bound to hapen sooner or later, why ever try to go straight? I'll just be a crazed as possible.
Calling these kids "punks" or "trash" feeds right into them. You have to make them feel conncted to their world, make them see the "old lie" of gangbanging has no meaning, and that the worst thing in the world is to get in trouble with the law.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 7:42 PM
4:28 PM: Next time you're threatened by marauding stroller moms, don't back down - mace 'em.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 7:44 PM
Good post Denton. But I'm wondering, why would they select you to jump -- not that I doubt your word. Because you were carrying a digicam? Are you white or black? I'm just wondering about their, er, selection criteria.
I'm just a 5'8" white lady, so that doesn't leave me with as many options.
Is FG not in the much-maligned 88th precinct? That's the other question. People seem to be saying that response in FG is better than in Clinton Hill and the neighboring parts of Bed-Stuy.
questions, questions.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 8:06 PM
8:06, I didn't get a chance to ask. Perhaps cuz I was talking on a cell phone as I entered the park. I was seeing a doc in the building at the end of Willoughby. I wouldn't give them credit for being smart enuf to know that the pouch on my waist was a digicam. But I also had a backpack. Umm, lots of potential in there.
But I was aware of them, made eye contact, saw it coming down. I'm white. Maybe cuz I'm 53, even tho rather large. I'd have to agree with some other posters that you could be buppie and be in the same boat.
The cop car that drove me outta there was marked 84, I think. I could be wrong.
Posted by: denton at June 18, 2008 8:18 PM
Funny Denton I too always carry a a knife with me about that size or a box cutter but not just for protection. Once walking from the train back in 89 I was accosted by two teens who punched me and demanded my wallet - me being only a few years older then them at the time. Conveniently I grabbed a piece of cyclone fence post that was being discarded and beat one of them unconscious while the other ran off. Fearing the cops would give me some heat for my response I simply dropped the knife next to napping soul. When the cops arrived I told them that the kid pulled that knife on me - they were more than happy to file the charges.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 8:52 PM
"Fearing the cops would give me some heat for my response I simply dropped the knife next to napping soul. When the cops arrived I told them that the kid pulled that knife on me - they were more than happy to file the charges."
Nice. Taking a page from the NYPD's book. Good work.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:04 PM
I think the Black Community is really lacking in role models to stand up and talk about the culture that Black teens are embracing. If a white person states something, he/she is racist. When Bill Cosby spoke out about problems in the Black community, he was labeled an Uncle Tom. I'm glad Barack Obama started the dialogue the other day. Where are the fathers??? 80 percent of Black children are born out of wedlock. It all comes down to the break down of the family. The problems are all related. You need a father figure and positive role models to stress education, values and morals. These kids are dying for someone to lead them and mentor them. Stay in school, get educated, and stop having babies out of wedlock! I may be labeled a racist for stating this, but the Rev. Al, and Charles Barron should be the ones preaching this.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:29 PM
To close out this BS post.. Brownstoner, today my hated for you went up 10 fold! Why you ask? You are a hypocrite and a phony. You clain this Blog is for "the restoration of Brownstones" but, this Blog is dedicated to Class/Race warfare.
The posts lately has been more inflammatory and nasty! Example: A couple of months ago as we were walking East on Greene Avenue between Waverly and Washington we noticed in our peripheral vision someone approaching fast from behind. A couple of months ago??!! I have to ask you, why today?! Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or I need to get my click count up?
Enough With the Marauding Teenagers! Is this code for something drastic, Brownstoner. I see some Asshats was advocating "Clint Eastwood" tactics. Hey Asshats I have news for you, they carry weapons also. Plus I bet one of you are going to get it if you don't stop this BS.
No one forced you to move into Asshat Hill! Now you are here just deal with it or get out! That simple!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at June 18, 2008 9:38 PM
You hate this site, but you keep coming back. You are the fucktarded asshat, t'What.
The war is over. You lost. Get out, you ghetto ass punk bitch.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:54 PM
Stories like these bring such a warm smile to my face, I cannot even begin to describe.
Every time a yuppie/hippie transplant gets beat up or harassed in Brooklyn, an angel in heaven gets his wings.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 9:59 PM
Um, it's always amusing (and a little dissapointing) to see that every time something bad happens in the neighborhood so many folks get hysterical and seem to believe that this is the marker of the neighborhood:
A. Going/Returning to pot (depending on your perspective and likely how long you've been in the area)
B. Being worse in whatever negative respect the point of the conversation is
The fact is that kids/teens are a little crazy these days and not just in FG/CH/B-S/PH and at least anecdotally this seems to be happening all over town. A friend's thirteen year-old son got mugged on his way home from school a couple of weeks ago on the Upper West Side.
I've lived in the neighborhood since '96 and nothing's ever happened to me, but I'm a big, tall black guy (not that that would matter in the wrong circumstances), but years ago when I lived on Carlton a bunch of kids tried to mug by big, tall white roommate on Willoughby right off of the park (dark, too quiet and nowhere really to escape to), and he just started screaming like a crazy person. For all of you newly-minted tough-guy vigilantes with delusions of fighting off some group of...well anyone...if you can't run away, acting crazy might be your next best solution. That Bernard Goetz crap is just going to get your assed kicked or worse; and then we'll have to hear about yet another incident ad-nauseum because some idiot didn't have the good goddamned sense to give it up, run away or scream like a banshee.
It's going to be a long, hot summer people, the economy's tanking...get it together.
Posted by: FtGreeneNY at June 18, 2008 10:06 PM
2. Man up. Skinny jeans and flip flops on dudes might be de rigeur further down Bedford Ave but they get no play in the Stuy. You look like a mark.
3. RESPECT YOUR NEIGHBORS.
This will be the first of many diatribes to come, but there if there is one thing that the newly-rented gentry in Brooklyn really don't seem to understand it's how their respect for the cultural norms in their new neighborhoods (or more often lack thereof) impact the way they are perceived and treated by their neighbors.
When non-whites move to predominantly white neighborhoods they are expected to conform (see, "Fresh Prince of Bel Air"). The 5-0 will swoop in right quick if you wear your jeans too low, pump your bass too loud or have more than five black friends "loitering" outside your property in, say, Greenwich, CT.
But here y'all come, raggedy and unshaven on purpose, Coldplay droning at full volume out the windows, PBR cans strewn about the sidewalks as you sit in your $5 lawnchairs looking like nothing so much as the most clueless, entitled and self-congratulating group of people who ever walked the Earth, surveying with pride your newly-colonialized borough.
Thank god you showed up in time with your Vans and your esoteric ice cream to bring culture to the masses!
News flash: Brooklyn - and especially the black neighborhoods of Brooklyn - has a rich history despite all the crime and negativity. Black culture is not a monolith. There are black and brown people of every stripe and persuasion here and THIS IS HOW WE LIVE.
Undoubtedly, diversity means making room for new perspectives and I like fig gelato as much as the next bougie professional, but y'all need to get with the program. Learn something about your community. Get to know your neighbors and adopt some of their customs. Don't assume you can come in and whitewash the fifth largest city in America without encountering some resistance.
Wake up. There is no "Clinton Hill". This is Bed-Stuy...Bed-Stuy DO OR DIE! These n***as ain't goin down without a fight. You want to fight back? No you don't. You might want to blend in. There's a reason you look like mark.
Posted by: MizJenkins at June 18, 2008 10:06 PM
Apparently part I of my post disappeared into the ether...
It went a little something like this:
Class warfare in America = race warfare. Welcome to reality. Why are you surprised that cops don't come to black neighborhoods?
1. Take the damn earbuds out of your ears and stop stumbling around the 'hood in the dark.
Also, shout-out to the good neighbors who posted at 10:07 and 10:37 AM.
Posted by: MizJenkins at June 18, 2008 10:11 PM
MizJenkins you hit the nail directly on the head. These idiot yups/hipsters (aren't they just the same sheep in different clothing) are possibly the most idiotic group of individuals I've ever had the displeasure of encountering.
Growing up in NYC, we were raised apparently unaware that the rest of the nation is filled with the most vapid, cultureless twerps this side of the planet. Unfortunately, they all chose now to come and populate our once-soulful home. It is truly a tragedy.
- White BK Native
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:16 PM
check out what's happening on the HOTD thread....
uhhhh....
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:18 PM
MizJenkins: What a load of crap. So the norm in the hood is to act like uneducated trash so I have to do the same or learn to deal? No.
That is what created the problems in these areas in the first place. Everyone kept their mouth shut and didn't try to maintain any sense of control or civility.
Everyone need to learn how to act like a civilized person. I know it is a stretch for some, but they need to try.
They need to conform to the norms that exist outside their little world - which is now ending - and learn to behave.
Believe it or not, others are judging them on the content of their character,, not the color of their skin. Just like MLK always wanted. The unfortunate part is that their character is seriously lacking.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 10:26 PM
MizJenkins wins dumbest posts of the year.
The real problem is that the newcomers are wearing flip-flops and listening to Coldplay! The non-ghetto residents should just respect and emulate ghetto culture by cursing every other word, peppering untelligable talk with the n-word, and wearing knee-length Stop-Snitching t-shirts, because, according to MizJenkins, that's "black culture".
Um, no, that's ghetto culture, it isn't black culture. The hoodrats that do this crap will not lay off if you try and dress or act like an ignorant thug. They don't like anyone who isn't like them, regardless of race, and they don't care if you want to respect or understand them. The low-income blacks of Brooklyn hate them as much as the newcomers.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:06 PM
Here's what needs to happen. Promote the next community council meeting in the neighborhood with flyers and postings here. Both for the Ft. Greene and the Clinton Hill and other precincts. Ask everybody concerned to turn out. Call the press. Ask repeatedly during the Q+A period what the precinct is going to do to make our streets safe. Don't worry if it sounds redundant, keep pressing them. Ask everybody concerned about the issue to raise hands at the meeting. And call your city council person. Ask him/her to follow up on these issues as well. Only when the voices are speaking in unison will the police register that there is a problem they must deal with. And as for newcomers/old timers debate. All BS when it comes to crime issues. Poor people are routinely victimized in every city. To pretend that the rich deserved to be crime victims because they might have a choice to live instead in a gated mansion is pathetic.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:24 PM
here's a clue folks. don't count on the "police" to help solve this problem. They are there for a riot or a car crash or a more serious crime. when it comes to personal protection, however, you are basically on your own. Now you can take a chance on the good graces of your attacker or you can realize that these problems are basically in your hands to solve. of course it doesn't help much that this city basically craps all over the 2nd amendment. I would say the best way to protect oneself is to be well aware of the surroundings. if you see a group of teens that look like thugs, they probably are thugs.
It won't get better until it gets worse. then you'll get a few vigilante types to bring more law enforcement to bear in the issue.
Posted by: guest at June 18, 2008 11:28 PM
Respectfully, if all you see when you look at your black neighbors is "uneducated trash" and "ghetto culture" then you have made my point for me.
Why would anyone think they were going to get respect from people who they have historically disrespected, especially when they continue to exude a sense of cultural arrogance about them wherever they go?
Try applying the Golden Rule...
There is beauty and intelligence and potential in these young girls who y'all look at and immediately label "hoodrats" just because they may not have money for a fresh weave. (Hypocrisy?? see, Amy Winehouse; see also, Williamsburg, Brooklyn).
Every culture has its baser elements and I didn't celebrate or apologize for anybody's low class behavior. But I wonder why that is immediately all some people want to see when they look at black folks? Are you interested in any other aspect of any black or African culture? Do you actually appreciate or know anything good about it? Do you want to? Do you ever talk about it with your white friends? Or do you really think white people invented everything that's good and worth congratulating or calling "civilized"?
Flaunting your wealth and your ignorance at the same time will engender resentment.
I think that was my point.
Who wouldn't fight back?
Posted by: MizJenkins at June 18, 2008 11:55 PM
And I will willingly admit, there are plenty of good, kind and respectful white people who are victims of violence simply by association and senseless racial profiling.
And to them I say, welcome to the struggle.
Posted by: MizJenkins at June 18, 2008 11:58 PM
6:12pm and 6:19pm...could you be anymore ignorant and racist? I bet you two are among the first folks to claim that blacks are playing the so-called "race card" whenever they point out the racist behavior of others. Yes...behavior and words such as yours. So let me get this straight...5 or 6 black kids walking together are a gang? Really...so what do you call 5 or 6 white kids hanging out together?
The bottom lime, if you would get your racist mind out of your ass is that the resources of the 88th precinct are being diverted to the Atlantic Centre Mall and other BS.
Clinton Hill and Fort Greene are among the safest neighborhoods in Brooklyn. Of course crime exists. I am amazed at the stupidity of the people walking around Ft. Green/Clinton Hill. Don't forget folks...this IS still Brooklyn. Get rid of those damn I-pod headphones and get some plain looking ones. Keep your ass on the OTHER side of the park and for God's sake, do NOT walk through Ft. Green Park at night. You are making yourself a target. Also, do not EVER engage any of these kids no matter how mad you are. Just keep it moving and get yourself to safety. Engaging in a confrontation is about the dumbest thing you could do.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 12:05 AM
MizJenkins...don't waste your breath on racists. They are not interested in anything that bears any relationship to rational thought.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 12:07 AM
287 freaking comments and no food?? Ridiculous! These threads aren't what they used to be...
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 12:10 AM
Thank you 12:07. No they don't, which is why they will continue to attract reciprocal attention (karma if you will) from the universe.
That is to say, keep it up and some crazy l'il n***as are gonna jump your ass. You don't have to take it from me...
Posted by: MizJenkins at June 19, 2008 12:16 AM
12:07, MizJenkins sounds like the racist. She is conflating ghetto culture with black culture. She thinks cussing and listening to Young Jeezy will lessen the chances of a random assult.
The vast majority of blacks do not behave in the feral manner exhibited by these young hoodlums. Packs of violent youth are not seeking respect or understanding, and nobody's (re)actions on the street will mitigate their idiocy.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 12:25 AM
I'm all for getting involved in the community and having respect and understanding the socio-economic realities of race and crime, but at the same time I can appreciate the fact that if a group of kids try to mug someone and one of them gets beaten to within an inch of their life, or even worse, takes their first step on the road to a long life with the criminal justice system, then they have only themselves to blame.
In the end, we are all ultimately responsible for our actions. Even the teenagers.
By the way, suggesting that all white people who move into black nabes listen to Coldplay, drink PBR, wear Vans and are motivated by a sense of entitled colonialism is racist too.
It works both ways MizJenkins.
Maybe the next time you get followed around a department store by some white guy in a blue blazer you will have a little more sympathy for white people who look over their shoulder when they get out of the subway in certain neighborhoods.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 12:31 AM
And why do poor black girls have to get a fresh weave?
That just reeks of self-loathing.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 12:34 AM
12:07, MizJenkins sounds like the racist. She is conflating ghetto culture with black culture. She thinks cussing and listening to Young Jeezy will lessen the chances of a random assult.
The vast majority of blacks do not behave in the feral manner exhibited by these young hoodlums. Packs of violent youth are not seeking respect or understanding, and nobody's (re)actions on the street will mitigate their idiocy.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 12:39 AM
blacks are gonna cause the whites to fight back. in a major way. don't f*ck with whitey.
blah!!!
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 12:57 AM
PERFECTLY safe in my neighborhood of Sunset Park. I don't know why you people put up with that stuff. Bay Ridge, Sunset Park, Kensington... all way better alternatives.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 1:08 AM
2 teenage black dudes tried to mug me once on Eastern Parkway. I'm a 6'2" white dude wearing a suit in Crown Heights, so I guess I looked like an easy target. Sucks for them that I train seriously in Muay Thai. I doubt they will ever look at white people the same again, as I proceeded to kick one guy in the shins with my allen edmonds wingtips. The other guy was so shocked he just stood there, then ran away. The old timers on the benches gave me a round of applause it was a good day.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 1:48 AM
True, 1:08. There are few native-born blacks in those neighborhoods.
Black neighborhoods can be safe too, but stick to the immigrant hoods. Flatbush, East Flatbush, Crown Heights South, etc.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 1:50 AM
300
Posted by: BrooklynLove at June 19, 2008 6:23 AM
301
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 8:03 AM
10:37 here:
all should remember Racism is the act of using prejudice to control a situation, most commonly methods of betterment or even survival. The Caucuses and the mess in most of Africa is essentially tribally based racism.
Prejudice is having pre-conceived notions of a subject.
Saying all whites listen to Coldplay is prejudicial.
Subjecting non-whites to Coldplay is racist.
Similarly, assuming that everyone who is white and moves into the neighborhood is from an estate and has a trust fund and no sense of reality is prejudicial.
Assuming that the ghetto will change overnight (with no effort, just because you moved in) is slightly racist (but really more classist)
Do you people really need to watch 'Do the right thing' again? or even Breaking Away?
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 8:20 AM
Some tough but honest solutions to this:
1. Stop the insanity of self focus in this country, whereby one ignores the plight of others to make oneself filthy rich.
2. Give kids real education and jobs, and if that doesn't work because the kids are too f-ed up and the parents don't give a sh*t, then take them away from the parents, sterilize the parents (of all races, before you say I am being racist), and put the kids in work prison making green technology.
3. Crack down on guns, no matter how afraid politicians are of the NRA.
4. Have an open and honest conversation about race, and the fact that it is incredibly hard to make yourself out of the inner city projects without the solid foundation of education and strong family bonds - elements often missing in these environments.
5. While doing all of that, train yourself in self-defense, but don't be stupid. You never know what can happen when you react to kids with no sense of humanity or self for that matter. They have no self esteem and think they have nothing to lose, including their life if it comes to that.
6. If that doesn't work, move out of the City, because honestly, crime like this may only get worse, as the City falls into a fiscal mess the likes of the 70s and the housing market falls back more than 50%, which it indeed will over the next few years.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 9:53 AM
09:53 speaks a bit of truth to power and his type of tough love (gasp - fund education!, admit that individualism does not preclude taking care of your neighbors!)
yet I am not sure I agree with point 6.
The last time this city (and nation) faced a society changing economic contraction was the 70's, China was in lock-down, India was (to the US, anyway)still the land of ghandi and some brilliant engineers and Latin/South America was essentially the wild west.
This is not the situation, Manhattan is the home of the ULTRA rich and is not going to change, they will keep coming to NYC. Middle class people will have to live somewhere (i am looking at you MBAs and JDs) - elite brooklyn, etc. and Normal people will also have to live somewhere.
This city will not hit the lows of the 70's because it is no longer an American city - it is a global city and as such there is always new and real money coming here...go to jamaica/ozone park, about as far from the geographic center of the city as you can get - its a thriving enclave of west indian and indo-pak. Go to Bayside queens, the asians there don't really seem to care about the value of your brownstone, they are doing just fine.
Know why you can no longer point a "black" neighborhood like Hollis or Bellmore or even Harlem? because it doesn't work that way, these are neighborhoods and have some integration, the crimes and criminals don't emanate from there, they emanate from dehumanizing conditions and environments like projects and blighted hoods with minimal services. (Starbucks is not exactly a service). They come from environments where kids get swept up and are used to being questioned.
So neighborhoods with functional people will continue to be decent places to live, but as long as they surround situations where people are not used to opportunity or empowerment there will be strife.
As has been pointed out 'kids will be kids'; kids who absorb anger (from broken homes or random violence) are a little more dangerous...
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 10:44 AM
"Manhattan is the home of the ULTRA rich and is not going to change..."
Just as NYC in the 70s was a dump and was not going to change?
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 11:25 AM
NYC was a dump in the 70's because it was transitioning from light manufacturing, transportation to service/white collar dominated economy, dealing with global economic downturn, tight/nonexistent credit, losing swaths of tax base in terms of business and individuals as white flight revved up, at the same time absorbing the financial impact of social programs meant to deal with a poor population, race riots Newark were still a vivid memory,
and it was still converting itself to a car city thanks to Mr. Moses...who intentionally cut off neighborhoods of poor. (Red Hook was a no mans land for 30 years.) Mass transportation was essentially abandoned, as the great merger was still going on (IRT, BMT)
None of this faces the city. What's Goldman going to put into that tower on the West side? files? I don't see a slump in the 100MM apt market in Manhattan.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 11:50 AM
Maybe New Brooklyn is experiencing what the Old Bronx did two/three decades ago.
Hope not.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 12:37 PM
John Brownstoner almost got Ass-Raped. Ha, ha....
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 2:57 PM
anyone else think all we hear about is the crime in this area since this is where Brownstoner is?
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 5:07 PM
I just moved to what brokers call Prospect Heights, but seems to me to be the edge of Crown Heights (near Eastern Parkway and Bedford). I've lived in the city 10 years this fall, living most of it in Washington Heights near the GWB. I've had a few close calls, but really my most eventful crime-related story has to do with serving on a jury for a pathetic $20 crack charge. I digress.
I take precautions, but I take precautions everywhere, here or visiting family and friends in all kinds of places all over the country. The fact that I've never been the victim of a crime is pure luck, nothing more. That said, I always:
- Act like I know exactly where I'm going, even when I don't.
- Act like I belong wherever I am.
- Have no qualms crossing the street anywhere if I feel uncomfortable (I'm a small woman). When I cross, I act like I'm purposely jaywalking.
- Avoid eye contact if someone is giving me the creeps (it invites confrontation), but look someone directly in the face with purpose if I need to.
- Act like a total asshole if I need to.
- Give people around me respect as a default, and at the very minimum act aware of their existence.
- Treat teenagers like adults, and if they act like assholes, I am proactive and assertive with them. (As a woman, I avoid groups of teenage boys at night no matter where I am.) It's ok to let teenagers have the last word; it's often a way of justifying the fact that they've backed down. They got the message - teenagers aren't stupid.
I'm probably missing a few things, but if I ever feel in danger I look for (1) the nearest escape route and (2) people around me who seem legit.
And I ALWAYS follow through. If someone seems in danger (like a girl screaming outside my window), I ask to see if she's ok. If someone is committing a crime, I call the police. You can't be passive if you expect other people to help you.
But most importantly: get to know your neighbors. You could make all kinds of ignorant assumptions about my new neighbor next door, but I've found out that (1) she got a law degree (2) her mom had a doctorate (3) she loves farmers markets and is well-versed in sustainability issues (4) immediately talks about her and her children's education. Sound like something to fear? Or unfamiliar and strange? Please!
And lastly, if there are issues GO TO YOUR COMMUNITY BOARD. They are ambassadors to city agencies. Believe me, they are on a first name basis with the precinct commander, even if relations are chilly.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 10:21 PM
Just realized I forgot one thing: if a police officer won't take a report, go to your community board and raise hell.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 10:39 PM
I can't believe that any of you are still naive enough to insist that the problem is that people ACTED like victims. The suggestion that if you would have come at them or hit one of them they'd all scatter is a total fairy tale. Sorry. Not even remotely true. Saving face is more important to teenagers than just about anything in the world. I've been harassed twice by large groups of very young black teenagers. Both times my husband and I stood our ground and did not project any real nervousness, or fear. Newsflash: the kids didn't give a f#*k what our attitude was. The second time, two little bitty guys jumped my husband with no provocation, luckily I quickly stopped a passing cab and we both jumped in (My husband still smoking his cig - so obviously they hadn't hurt him) but if we would have stayed the others would have piled on. They were just wandering around with nothing to do trying to make something happen. If it makes you feel better to tell yourself that if you project a street-enough attitude nothing will happen to you - then rock on. But it's pure fantasy.
Posted by: guest at June 20, 2008 2:11 AM
Ironically its the whites who didn't flee to some suburb or car-oriented city who have to deal with this shit.
When is thier community going to realize that it is to their benefit to stop acting like animals. Behind closed doors and among themselves they need to communicate to the younger ones that this behavior will only come back to haunt them in spades.
Posted by: guest at June 20, 2008 10:47 AM
teenagers will be teenagers - no matter the neighborhood or borough. and when they're pumped full of bubbling hormones, they're going to need a release. unfortunately, some of them do so aggressively, violently (remember the alabama kids who burned down the churches?).
ft. greene always has felt safe to me. it has a strong sense of community, and neighbors do watch out for one another (something i never experienced when living in manhattan). but, like all burgeoning neighborhoods, it's still finding stable footing.
i once caught a teenage boy fumbling with the handles of car doors (to see if they were unlocked) on Lafayette. another time, a screaming child was being dragged down the street by an adult - at midnight (again, on lafayette). both times i reported the incidents. it's important to watch out for your neighbors because existing in isolation isn't going to do anything but put others (as well as yourself) in danger.
i find it helpful to have relationships with local shop owners, etc. so, if something bad happens, there's a safe place in which to duck or call for help. those who live in ft greene want to improve the neighborhood - they want to help one another and strengthen the community. like most places, it's only as strong as the people within it. people only will know what's taking place if we communicate honestly with one another (yes, word-of-mouth news has a tendancy to metasticize; hence the importance of sticking to the facts and keeping adjectives to a minimum); and, when that happens, we'll be more prepared and watchful.
Posted by: guest at June 20, 2008 11:33 AM
Looks like I was forwarded this post a day too late: last night at about 10:15pm while walking down Clermont from Lafayette to Dekalb (and talking on my cell phone to my mom), suddenly and from behind someone ripped my crappy 4yr old phone out of my hand and as i turned around a second teenager punched me twice in the face.
I was literally 25 ft from Dekalb, so someone heard me as I yelled falling back into a pile of garbage bags on the sidewalk. We called 911 and several patrol cars were there on Lafayette in about a minute. We thought they had caught the kids, but no such luck and so we rode around to canvas the neighborhood. Two or three other calls came in over the radio nearly identical to mine, if not as violent. One lady i met at the precinct had her iPhone stolen by a group of 5 teenagers who pushed her over while walking her dog in front of her apartment. The cops in the car implored me to tell my friends not to talk on the phone while walking down a dark street, even if that close to such a well-traveled corner, and also to call 911 about these packs of marauding teenagers - on their whereabouts and movements even if they havent done anything yet.
It all happened very fast, i had no time to react or catch sight of any salient details of the assailants, only their general build, height and clothing -- no facial recognition whatsoever and thus no positive id on the kids they had arrested shortly thereafter. The worst part for me personally was that I had been talking to my mom and she heard the attack, obviously without any idea what happened or ability to do anything. Luckily i had my work cell phone, so i called back shortly after i got up and the kind stranger had called 911. There were some humorous moments in the course of last night's event as well, recounted below on my online scapbook, where the thugs were replying to text messages on my stolen phone, but the texts were actually tweets and broadcast online to my friends and family via Twitter.
So I thought I'd share and that's most of it. Thanks to the good cops, detectives, friends and family and everyone who helped. Life, it confers lessons.
Picture of my face last night plus remembrances of things past are on my tumbleblog today:
http://hud.tumblr.com
Posted by: guest at June 20, 2008 4:15 PM
I am so sorry to hear that about you 4:15...really upsets me.
I want all the black people who read this to realize that we all know without even a second thought that black american teenagers did this .
In fact all of the so called "teenagers" above are black.
Think about that. Think about how F'ed up that is that some how it is socially acceptable to walk up to strangers and beat them for their stuff.
Truly outragous and it condemns you all in my eyes - because you make excuses for it. and this is the result. I am angry
Posted by: guest at June 20, 2008 4:41 PM
Sell off NYCHA property and use the money to install more police cameras. A lot more.
Posted by: guest at June 20, 2008 10:37 PM
4:41 you really dont give a crap, your sole purpose was to spread hate.
Posted by: guest at June 21, 2008 8:57 PM
Hi Ya Asshat, yeah you
Hud dot son June 20, 2008 4:41 PM.
Let's see. You are a skinny punks assed asshat that moved into the Ghetto, right? Plus just because of your features you are supposed to be "Left Alone", right? Plus you are sleepwalking in the Hood, right? Not paying attention your surroundings, right?
Let me tell you this homeboy, you don't belong in this neighborhood if you are not paying attention. Thing can happen in a second and you "moving" in the hood puts you at great risk! Here read this and see why I'm so hard on Asshats that try to Gentrify the ghetto.... Dumbasses!
The What (Was it one punch or two? LMMFAO)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at June 23, 2008 12:46 AM
I am so sorry to hear that about you 4:15...really upsets me.
I want all the black people who read this to realize that we all know without even a second thought that black American teenagers did this .
In fact all of the so called "teenagers" above are black.
Think about that. Think about how F'ed up that is that some how it is socially acceptable to walk up to strangers and beat them for their stuff.
Truly outrageous and it condemns you all in my eyes - because you make excuses for it. and this is the result. I am angry
Posted by: guest at June 20, 2008 4:41 PM
It doesn't condemn everyone, but yes, face it, these are racially biased crimes perpetrated by black teenagers targeting white people. If the races were reversed this would be considered a hate crime. Stop blaming the victims.
Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 9:22 AM
This thread is too funny. I just have to throw in my pre-teen encounter.
Moved near the Pratt Institute in 2000. As I was walking from the Classon G train I saw three 10-12 year olds from the Lafayette Gardens (PJ's) throwing small rocks at me from across the street. I ignored them until one of them hit me! From like 20 yards away! That kid was talented. At that point I ran full sprint at them with murder in my eyes. Like a scene out of a cartoon they fled in three different directions. Only one problem for them. They forgot to take their bikes & razor scooters.
As they only ran far enough away that I would not catch them they got to see me mount one bike, lift the razor and other bike up on my shoulder and ride off. They tried to follow but as they had no bikes they soon tired out running. I still smile a the thought of a big lanky white guy riding this shorty ass bike and the little black girl who saw the whole thing from the playground say "ya mister, you show em!"
Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 12:30 PM
What do you people expect? When you gentrify a neighborhood you cant expect to be welcomed with open arms, nor should you! Get ready for a hot summer with community centers being closed all around the 5 boroughs, Cops not being paid enough to listen to all of the complaints you yuppies will file, get used to it, it is going to get worse. Please leave before you catch more beatings...
Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 6:06 PM
My boyfriend yesterday, was jumped by what he described as 4 12 year olds, about 3 in the afternoon on his way to a Bushwick grocery store. There were lots of people outside and as the kids punched and jumped on his back putting him in a chokehold, several passerbys started to approach the group and an adult Black male leaving the grocery store saw one of the kids running and took off after him. My boyfriend is by no means a waif and shook them off, prompting their retreat along with the interveners. It just goes to show you that these kids are affecting everyone, not just "white skinny hipsters" or wealthier brownstoners. The black man that exited the grocery store in pursuit of one of the kids told my boyfriend and the cop that they were talking to that he has been jumped by teenagers as well, which the majority of the time are black.
I have a feeling that much of the time the parents put their kids up to this shit because they aren't as suspecting and if they get caught, the consequences aren't as bad.
Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 9:57 AM
A must watch for everyone reading this: HBO Special on last night - about Douglas High School in Baltimore - very analogous to Brooklyn -
It was truly frightening how these kids behaved (and that was with a camera crew in front of them!).
All I can say is that this subculture of low income black americans is completely screwed up in ways beyond comprehension to any other group of Americans.
I do not believe it is racist to point out this problem - To do nothing about it is worse.
Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 11:52 AM
Call the cops on these kids when you see them harassing someone. I never had any money growing up, and my pocket money from my parents was 3 dollars a week til I was 18 (mind you I was born in 1980) but my parents would never let me go around roughing people up for money or toys. What these kids' stories are we can only guess. But maybe something will change when their parent/s pick them up at the police station. They could also be enlisted into some community service once they are arrested. Ultimately, these kids need something to do and something to look forward to. Its tough when no one cares for you.
Brownstoner, how about starting an internship program. Next time one of them comes up to you, you say "Hey, you want a job?" and throw a wad of cash at them.
Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 3:44 PM
Hey 9:57 the keyword in your post was Bushwick, stay out of these neighborhoods that have been attempted to be gentrified, dont you get it yet? This will not stop, you cannot move into these neighborhoods and expect not to be seen as targets. 3:44 your community centers cost money, money that the city does not have which is why all community centers run by housing projects are being closed this summer, so you are just out of luck, any other wonderful ideas? The parents dont care if their kids get picked up, the reason why half of them are out is because the parents were just like them at somepoint but eventually had kids and had to stay home, its learned behavior, they either learn it at home or at school or on the street...
Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 10:48 PM
heard of another ft. greene jumping. this took place on monday afternoon(6.23) on the corner of lafayette & s.oxford.
was walking dog last night when neighbor advised that I only take dog to curb then return indoors (it was around 9:45)because he had seen a woman my size (around 5'1") be jumped by teenage boys. Fortunately passersby protected this woman but this obviously is a trend that isn't going to stop until autumn.
This neighbor now stands outside as a sort of informal neighborhood watch - he's lived in the neighborhood his entire life and said he didn't stand for this sort of mischief.
Posted by: guest at June 27, 2008 11:45 AM
All I can say is that this subculture of low income black americans is completely screwed up in ways beyond comprehension to any other group of Americans.
I do not believe it is racist to point out this problem - To do nothing about it is worse.
Posted by: guest at June 26, 2008 11:52 AM
Well said
Posted by: guest at June 27, 2008 3:36 PM
I just witnessed a group of about 10 teens in Ft Greene Park mug a one armed teen at about 1:30pm on Friday, June 27th. The police response was pretty impressive - less than 5 minutes after the one armed boy called 911 2 police cars showed up in the park. The cars patrolled the park and the surrounding area for some time. Not sure if they ever caught the kids.
Posted by: guest at June 27, 2008 4:16 PM
the one-armed boy was actually the owner of a laptop that one of the kids had just stolen!
the one-armed dude was working on his laptop at bittersweet (coffee shop on dekalb between cumberland and carlton) and this young kid, 13 or so, came in and asked what time it was and then asked about using wireless internet in the coffee shop, and one-arm was nice and pleasant and telling him, and then bam! kid grabs the laptop and takes off through the park. the one-armed dude ran out after him (lost his flip flops in the process) and must have run into the group of kids in the park...
as soon as the kid grabbed the computer several people called the cops, so the fast response was probably do to that. from my vantage, in bittersweet, it seemed to take longer than five min.
we were speculating that it must have been a dare because there's gotta be a better way to steal a computer. everyone in the coffee shop saw the kid do it, as did several neighbors and people walking on the street and in the park.
Posted by: guest at June 28, 2008 9:34 PM
Less money for fake waterfalls on the water and more money for police in Brooklyn and more prisons for teenagers. Lock them up! Unlike fishing it shouldn't be catch and release, more like catch and imprison!
Posted by: guest at June 29, 2008 5:34 PM
Gentrification has created a lot of tension in these neighborhoods with white students and new residents the target for people to take out their frustrations of being disenfranchised out on.
This kids are VERY dangerous and confronting them physically will only get you hurt, if not killed. Do not provoke them and just get the hell out of the area fast and call the cops.
You are dealing with people who have no tolerance for being shown up in front of their peers and they will make you pay dearly for any perceived slight.
They have ABSOLUTELY NO respect for you or for human life and will not think twice of cutting you open right where you stand.
Be careful out there folks...
Posted by: guest at July 5, 2008 10:44 AM
Last Thursday I was walking home from the grocery store around 10:30pm. I was about 2 blocks from my house (on Lafayette and Clinton) when a group of kids (probably 13 or 14 yrs old) surrounded me, stole my ipod and tried to take my purse. I started yelling and making as much noise as possible and they scattered, but continued to verbally threaten me. I was surprised how aggressive they were. Thankfully my only injuries are a couple bruises and a sore neck.
I've never felt unsafe in this neighborhood and didn't expected to be mugged by a group of kids... it was horrible. I didn't call the police b/c all they got was my ipod and I didn't think the police would take the time to track down a group of punk kids. But now that I know this is common in the area I'm going to report it and if any kids ever try this again they're going to get slapped/maced in the face.
Posted by: OlsAM at July 28, 2008 12:34 PM
Last Thursday I was walking home from the grocery store around 10:30pm. I was about 2 blocks from my house (on Lafayette and Clinton) when a group of kids (probably 13 or 14 yrs old) surrounded me, stole my ipod and tried to take my purse. I started yelling and making as much noise as possible and they scattered, but continued to verbally threaten me. I was surprised how aggressive they were. Thankfully my only injuries are a couple bruises and a sore neck.
I've never felt unsafe in this neighborhood and didn't expected to be mugged by a group of kids... it was horrible. I didn't call the police b/c all they got was my ipod and I didn't think the police would take the time to track down a group of punk kids. But now that I know this is common in the area I'm going to report it and if any kids ever try this again they're going to get slapped/maced in the face.
Posted by: OlsAM at July 28, 2008 12:34 PM
More gentrification will solve this problem real quick!
again with the naysayer's; somehow it's someone relocating to NYC (Bklyn) from anywhere in "America", are the blame for being mugged by so-called "black teens" with nothing else better to do; but create more hate to themselves!
Yeah...what about the so-called "Village" proverb; we always hear about??? How so-called nabe families are suppose to be watching out for the kids/teens. to me...it's all BullSh!t!!! Let the "Gentrfication" continue.
Posted by: 911NewYorker at September 7, 2008 8:45 AM
That's right! Americans have a right to relocate to any nabe in the USA (including Bklyn) without any questions asked. if rents go up...so what else is new in life!?
Americans have been relocating all over the US from day one.
change happens everyday; again, what ever happen to the "It takes a Village", proverp??? it's all bullsh!t.
mugging ppl is a crime no matter which way you look at it.
Let the "Gentrification" continue!
Posted by: 911NewYorker at September 7, 2008 9:57 AM
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