Co-ops of the Day: Head-to-Head Studio Battle

hmmm, the heights apt will probably only lose one third its value in the next year while the ph spot will lose half. go with the heights...

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 12:53 PM

12:53, your rent is due tomorrow.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:02 PM

93% Orange by press time of this comment as I expected. No brainer.

1. You simply cannot compare the locations.
2. Diclosure of generously sized floorplan.
3. Cheaper long term costs (assuming equal building condition, physical and financial)

On a side note: Only 10% down for Eastern Pkwy? What happened to stringent co-op boards protecting prices? Myth?

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:02 PM

12:53...as assinine as your comment may be I applaud your precison on narrowing down both the extent of the price decline and your ability to predict the timing so narrowly as well!!!

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:06 PM

It depends on where you want to live. There is nothing going on in BH. I'd rather live in PH. It is much closer to the spots that I frequent.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:09 PM

I was at the Brooklyn Museum on Saturday afternoon and took a stroll around the neighborhood afterwards. Some kids were openly dealing drugs around the corner from the Eastern Pkwy. apartment, so I'd go with the Orange St. place. If I wanted to pay $320K to live in a walk-in closet, that is.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:13 PM

1:02 #1. You don't have to rub it in the face of "underwater" homeowners that 12:53 only has rent to worry about. Very inconsiderate.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:13 PM

Most of the brain-addled hipsters on this site will say that there is "nothing happening" in Brooklyn Heights and therefore it is a highly undesirable neighborhood.
So boring. There is nothing happening between their ears, that's for sure.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:16 PM

The Orange Street place is obviously the better deal, both in terms of the apartment itself and the location.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:16 PM

I'd rather have the Prospect Heights place also. More fun area with lots to do nearby. And the park.

Home prices across the U.S. are forecast to drop another 10% by January 2009.

But somehow 12:53 thinks they will fall 50% in New York City. Keep dreaming for that 150K studio, buddy. Not happening in this lifetime.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:17 PM

I really think Eastern is the better deal - I like the sunken living room (or is a raised entry?) and that the kitchen has a window. Closet space looks good too. I also like that it's on the 4th floor. I don't like 1st floor units...

It's not completely fair to compare without floorplans for both and s.f. dimensions but I know I'd also much rather live near the park than the Promenade.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:19 PM

really kind of hard to compare since PH studio doesn't have floorplan or sq footage. It seems to me that PH is doing very well in general - I think it actually is the place to invest in bkln. So many people seem to have completely gotten over the "if I'm going to be in bkln at least let it be as close to manhattan as possible" attitude, I'm thinking BH has nowhere to go but down (at least relatively, as these prices seem to indicate...)

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:28 PM

1:02- yes, my rent is due tomorrow and it will be far less than the mortgage payment on either of these places and it's on a better block... my predictions in the first post were somewhat in jest but i do predict the heights place closes under 300k and the other under 250k...

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:29 PM

1:09 raises some good/valid points. at the end of the day it's where the buyer wants to be. i agree BH is a bit dull but i would have a hard time not choosing orange given the subway access and the promenade.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:32 PM

The majority of photos for both places are of the surrounding neighborhood/attractions which seems about right to me. Personally I would prefer to be by the park/botantic gardens/library/museum, etc...

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:39 PM

really kind of hard to compare since PH studio doesn't have floorplan or sq footage. It seems to me that PH is doing very well in general - I think it actually is the place to invest in bkln. So many people seem to have completely gotten over the "if I'm going to be in bkln at least let it be as close to manhattan as possible" attitude, I'm thinking BH has nowhere to go but down (at least relatively, as these prices seem to indicate...)

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:41 PM

Man, this is a total no brainer. The BH place is far superior to the Eastern Parkway unit. Eastern Parkway...blech...

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:50 PM

For those saying BH is a much better location -- for the elderly, sure.

All the young hip kids buying their first coops are choosing PH. Young hip renters are swarming there too. By a huge margin. It's where all the cool bars are and where their demographic is.

Coops in BH sell to families and spinsters.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 1:58 PM

That block on Orange Street, between Henry and Hicks, is actually one of the prettiest blocks in Brooklyn. While 54 Orange itself doesn't have the greatest facade, it faces the Plymouth Church courtyard, and is two short blocks from the promenade. Also, the restaurant scene on Henry is developing, and its practically on top of a 2/3 and A/C stop (one stop from Manhatta; accessible to all other neighborhoods in Brooklyn). I don't know anyone who would prefer to live on Eastern Parkway.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:14 PM

As someone who is under 30 and lives in Brooklyn Heights, I can attest that the North Heights has plenty of young people. And most young professionals who work in Manhattan would much prefer the Clark St./High St. commute to the Eastern Parkway commute.

There definitely aren't enough "cool bars" in prospect/crown heights to justify choosing the Eastern Parkway apt. over the Orange St. apt. It's very easy to head to "cooler" areas from Brooklyn Heights when necessary.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:18 PM

EP place looks REALLY dark for a 4th floor unit. Is that only one window I see in the living space? no bueno.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:24 PM

The question is "Which do you think is a better deal?", not "Where would you prefer to live?". It's a financial question.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:34 PM

2:18, why would you pay top dollar to live in a glorified shoe box in a neighborhood with crappy amenities...?

If I lived in a small place, I'd want the nearby area to be fun, and that it much more true of the Prospect Heights Place.

You must lead a pretty boring existence with the 60% of BH residents who are over the age of 75.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:34 PM

The B/Q from Grand Army Plaza is a great commute. Nothing wrong with it at all.

I don't know one single young person living in Brooklyn Heights. But then I work in film and music. So maybe they're all young bankers in BH?

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:36 PM

BH has better grocery stores than PH by a long shot, as well as better liquor stores & some OK restaurants. Henry's End & Noodle Pudding vs. Franny's & James? There is one decent (not great) bar on Henry St too.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:49 PM

A similar studio two floors up in the same line just closed for $310K in 54 Orange. Its a great building in a fantastic location (2 blocks from Promenade, 2/3/A/C, Cadman Park and the Brooklyn bridge & 5 minute walk to Manhattan Bridge, Dumbo and the parks down there and the new Brooklyn Bridge Park). This will go quick.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 2:50 PM

as a PH resident I can say its not as cool as everyone is making it out to be.

however Barette and Soda are pretty cool. Its a 10min ride on the 2 or 3 to get there from BH.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:00 PM

That's understandable in general, Heather at 2:54 but these are studios and studios sell to singles. Young singles would be the targeted buyer for these two apartments. So discussing which neighborhood has more of a singles scene is important.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:04 PM

ha! I work in the music industry and live in BH.

Anyway, I like both neighborhoods. I never go out in BH, but I go out all over the place and BH is easy enough to get to Harlem or LES or Park Slope, etc. I have my neighborhood bar -- henry st ale house -- and I'm happy to taxi or subway it elsewhere.

Besides all that -- what's the better deal? The brooklyn heights one for sure.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:07 PM

"BH has better grocery stores than PH by a long shot"

The Gristedes burned down in case you missed it.

Now one has to walk all the way to Montague.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:08 PM

The Orange Street building is really ugly from the outside.

And I believe that because of the limited amenities in BH along with the fact that the neighborhood has little room for growth in terms of the "hip" factor means that price appreciation is limited.

The PH place is surrounded by cool neighborhoods. Clinton Hill, Ft. Greene and the Brooklyn Flea to the north and west, Park Slope to the south, the new beer garden, Franklin Park (which I hear is filled with a super hot crowd) etc.

PH is where it's at.

And Heather, your comment is kinda stupid because not many people live in studios for a very long time. Studios attract young people, by and large.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:12 PM

I live in Eastern Parkway...and wish I didn't.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:14 PM

Galapagos is going to be about a 7 minute walk from the BH place.

But I agree, if you're 19 or 20, you'd rather be in PH. Well, PH would be you're 4th or 5th choice, but better than BH

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:31 PM

Most idiotic comment of the day award goes to 3:14.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:38 PM

How can you live "in" Eastern Parkway?

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:39 PM

Eastern Parkway... hands down... Brooklyn Heights is 1st floor. Who wants to live on the first floor? It's either dark or you have to live with all that foot traffic outside your window. Eastern Parkway is on the 4th floor. And Prospect Heights is a much cooler neighborhood. Presuming only a young, single person is going to buy a studio, they would definitely rather be in PH. The Eastern Parkway apartment looks like it was recently renovated. Can't tell about the Orange Street one. No kitchen photo. That's usually a dead giveaway. It also looks like there's room in the foyer area for a small kitchen table before heading to the sunk in living room in the Eastern Parkway apartment. Come on folks, details!

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:41 PM

Eastern Parkway... hands down... Brooklyn Heights is 1st floor. Who wants to live on the first floor? It's either dark or you have to live with all that foot traffic outside your window. Eastern Parkway is on the 4th floor. And Prospect Heights is a much cooler neighborhood. Presuming only a young, single person is going to buy a studio, they would definitely rather be in PH. The Eastern Parkway apartment looks like it was recently renovated. Can't tell about the Orange Street one. No kitchen photo. That's usually a dead giveaway. It also looks like there's room in the foyer area for a small kitchen table before heading to the sunk in living room in the Eastern Parkway apartment. Come on folks, details!

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:43 PM

The BH place is definitely the keeper here. No question about it.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:53 PM

it doesn't look dark and it looks to be on the back, off the garden. might be nice. might not be. who can tell without looking?

My mom and MIL/FIL rent a studio on this block when they come to visit the grandbabies. The owners get $300 a night -- not too bad.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 3:56 PM

I love this idea of this feature, but the fact that this head-to-head is even being debating here makes me think people here are just too nuts to handle it

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:01 PM

It's a tired tactic by Brownstoner, pitting neighborhood against neighborhood. It's not really about the apartments.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:11 PM

Count me in for the Prospect Heights pad.

Honestly, Brooklyn Heights is not on my radar at all. Maybe in another 40 years.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:18 PM

I'd never want to live on Eastern Parkway or in that general area, so this isn't a tough choice for me.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:23 PM

Yeah, I can see how one wouldn't want to live near or on such a beautiful part of this city and country's history...

The world's first parkway was conceived by Frederick Law Olmsted and Calvert Vaux in 1866. The term parkway was coined by these designers as a landscaped road built expressly for 'pleasure-riding and driving' or scenic access to Prospect Park (also designed by Olmsted and Vaux). To these ends, commerce was restricted. The parkway was constructed from Grand Army Plaza to Ralph Avenue (the boundary of the City of Brooklyn) between 1870 and 1874. Olmsted and Vaux intended Eastern Parkway to be the Brooklyn nucleus of an interconnected park and parkway system for the New York area. The plan was never completed but their idea of bringing the countryside into the city influenced the construction of major parks and parkways in cities throughout the United States."

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:37 PM

i've been inside the orange street place. it's a dump. i definitely prefer the location and look of the prospect heights apartment.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:38 PM

55 Eastern Parkway is listed with Prudential Douglas Elliman.

Lots of pictures of the building, which looks attractive. (One of those neo-Georgian numbers that conferred "class" to upwardly-mobile garmentos who lived on the street during the 30s and 40s. For those new to New York, garmento is what natives used to call people in the garment industry.)

The parkway's pretty lonely at night, though, something to think about if you're single and coming in at all hours.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:39 PM

Aside from proximity to the park, I've never really understood the appeal of Eastern Parkway. Ah yes, there's the museum you'd probably frequent what...once or twice a year (if that). No thanks.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:51 PM

Yeah, PH and the 77th have had 11 murders and 14 rapes so far this year, versus 0 and 1 for the 84th and BH. Plus, living near 4 or 5 methadone clinics is really appealing. Brooklyn Heights just doesn't have those amenities, or any amenities that an amenity-filled neighborhood like PH has. Brooklyn Heights is boring and doesn't have any hipsters. PH is where it's at.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 4:57 PM

4:51, it's Prospect Park, Vanderbilt Avenue and proximity to all that Park Slope has to offer that makes it a desirable location.

And I've been to the Brooklyn Museum probably 5 times in the last year, the Botanical Gardens twice this year and the Grand Army Plaza Greenmarket and library once a week.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:02 PM

I live on the block. 54 Orange has a lobby floor, so call this the second floor. This faces the Plymouth Church garden which is one of the prettiest in the Heights. Foot traffic? This is Orange Street, not 5th in the 50s. Its almost too quiet. You do have to put up with the tour groups outside Plymouth Church on Saturdays however and those boisterous Witnesses. Hearing about Henry Ward Beecher for the 20th time does get pretty painful. I will concede that the building is fugly on the outside, but its one of the prettiest blocks in the Heights.

The new wine bar around the corner is fun for a quick drink as is the Henry St. Ale house. Noodle Pudding is awesome, and Iron Chef, Siggys, Fascati, Petit Marche, Jack the Horse and Henry's End are all great restaurants and within 2 blocks. You are 5 mintues from Dumbo, and Atlantic Avenue and Smith/Court street eateries are doable.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:03 PM

"How can you live "in" Eastern Parkway?"

Does sleeping under the scaffolding at OPP count?

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:15 PM

i am so DOWN with Henry Ward Beecher

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:18 PM

Eastern Parkway has to be the most overrated part of Brooklyn. I'd rather live in Canarsie.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:27 PM

I like both neighborhoods and would live in either. Their is a much better food selection in PH. But i would give the nod to BH because it's 1 stop on all the subways(2/3,a/c,m/r) from manhattan.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:29 PM

I live in Prospect Heights. I've been to the Brooklyn Museum 565 times in the last year, the Botanical Gardens 50 times this year and the Grand Army Plaza Greenmarket and library four times every day.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 5:29 PM

Eastern Parkway has people selling drugs on the street, but the actual coke is much better in BH. You do get what you pay for though.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 6:38 PM

I live inside the Brooklyn Museum. As a child, I read From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler, and that gave me the idea to live inside of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. But the Brooklyn Museum is just, you know, so much more real and down to earth. Plus I get free wi-fi.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 8:24 PM

I live in Brooklyn Heights and I am 95 years old. I broke my hip and never had it fixed so I can't walk to the few restaurants near me. But that is ok since my teeth fall out a lot since the stroke. (If you find them, please return them to me.) I don't understand why kids today do not want to live near me. This area is so much fun.

Posted by: guest at June 30, 2008 9:12 PM

"Yeah, PH and the 77th have had 11 murders and 14 rapes so far this year, versus 0 and 1 for the 84th and BH. Plus, living near 4 or 5 methadone clinics is really appealing."

At least PH won't be underwater in a hurricane when the big one comes.

Paying the highest prices in all of Brooklyn to live in the very worst flood zone. That's smart.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 11:58 AM

I'm a relatively new BH resident--and, yes, I sometimes feel that, while there, I must take my pulse to ensure I'm still alive.

But I feel the old versus young bakeoff to be repellent.

Each group undoubtedly requires different things of its neighborhood, to which each is "entitled."

In other words, it's not either-or.

Everyone likes to see, to a greater or lesser degree, him- or herself reflected in the makeup of the nabe in which he or she lives, but many enjoy a mix.

The low as well as the high is greater than the high alone, said St. Augustine--words to the wise.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 12:42 PM

11:58. Ahoy. Have you ever been to Brooklyn Heights? Most of the area is at least 50' above sea level.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 1:19 PM

Brooklyn Heights is not a flood zone. It is called the "heights" for a reason.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 2:25 PM

With 20% down and a 7% mortgage, the BH coop is $2030/month with maintenance, and the PH coop is $1951/month with its higher maintenance. That's a $79 difference per month, BH is a much better investment considering the nicer area as well. Less to worry about the value of the BH apt going down as much as PH in the event of a recession, and the maint is already cheaperin BH. More than $400 is a little steep for a dinky studio.

Posted by: guest at July 1, 2008 3:39 PM