Co-op of the Day: 90 8th Avenue

I'm really diggin this place and I think the price is more than fair, actually.

Did you see that this place sold on Berkeley Place? Was this place highlighted here...it looks familiar...?

http://www.bhsbrooklyn.com/detail.asp?id=903921

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 12:50 PM

I think the area of the North Slope near the park is one area which is doing quite well, from my amateur observations. Seems stuff sells really quick and for large sums.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 12:53 PM

And the coop at 10 8th ave went for 1.72?

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 12:54 PM

i'm not trying to troll or make a joke, but i think it might get a bidding war...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 12:56 PM

I do think this one is overpriced, and I'm not one to always shout overpriced. Not in District 15, no outdoor space, high maintenance and seems to be fairly small square footage. There are still bidding wars in the Slope (I just did a FSBO and we had a bidding war) but this seems pricey for the space.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 1:11 PM

1:11 here - oops, I think it is in 321, but still. Is there laundry in the bldg?

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 1:14 PM

I live a block from here and just had an open house on Sat. (first one) as I'm selling my place FSBO. We had two offers, one at ask, one above and if all goes well, will go into contract for about 13K above our asking price.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 1:17 PM

I'm just shocked at what people can get for these apartments.

I'm lucky, 'cause I purchased in South Brooklyn in 97 and hit the real estate lotto. But for those who haven't and don't have wall street like salaries, how do you buy these?

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 1:19 PM

This place is not for a "Wall Street like salary"

A couple earning 200-250K would be able to afford this place no problem. Considering how we hear a lot of people around here make 100K and up, I don't think it's really a stretch. This is a middle class apartment for Park Slope...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 1:22 PM

Thanks for that Biff...I mean Nokilissa...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 1:33 PM

What's a C-Line?

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 1:38 PM

Not only does someone NOT need a Wall Street salary for a place like this, but I bet someone will sell their 1 bedroom in Manhattan and buy this place with cash.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 1:41 PM

I think the buyer would be a young 20's or 30's professional or perhaps a couple. I think a couple with one child would be ok here, but yes, it would be a bit tight I guess.

The reason I gave that example is because I did just that. Bought a place 7 years ago for 175K in the East Village. Sold it 2 months ago for 585K and then bought a 1 bedroom plus den on Lincoln Place around the corner from here (with cash).

Now I'm 34 and have no mortgage.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 1:54 PM

I recently sold an apartment with the identical floorplan, square footage, and general condition in a great doorman building on the Upper West Side for 850K (down from the asking of 925K). My old maintainance was only $800--much lower than this one's. So I have got to say that this place is overpriced. You may think that Park Slope is as desireable as the UWS, but most people don't. I moved to Brookly because it is a lot cheaper--and not just a 65K savings with higher monthlies!

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 1:57 PM

I actually think Park Slope itself as a neighborhood is more desirable than the Upper West Side. The one thing the UWS has going for it is that it's on the isle of Manhattan. Which of course trumps all.

In terms of neighborhood feel, quality shops, schools, etc, Park Slope wins on all counts, in my opinion.

The Upper West Side has turned into a pretty bland place. And I used to absolutely love it.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:00 PM

while ps and the uws are very similar i think...or at least it seems lots of uwsiders move to ps, the difference i see is that ps still attracts young artsy people and gays and lesbians, whereas it seems to me the crowd on the uws has gone completely to the family set. i never hear about any of my friends moving to the uws, but i do hear often about them moving to ps. or wanting to.

just my 2 cents.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:05 PM

The decor makes me want to throw up

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:15 PM

Park Slope is closer to Wall Street and downtown than the Upper West Side is. I used to live on the UWS and it would take me 30-35 mins to Union Square. Now from PS it takes 15-20 mins.

As a young person, I prefer Park Slope to the UWS. There are more young people around and fun bars.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:21 PM

DEBATE is OVER: My offer was accepted yesterday. We offered $750k & agreed on $759,900

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:22 PM

20% down, 7% mortgage (that's what is realistically available to someone with GOOD credit right now) and that much maintenance equals a check for about $5,300/month. After-tax cost of ownership about $4,100 to $4,200 a month (assuming 33% tax bracket, a good assumption for someone buying this place). I very much doubt prices are going up any time soon, and most people don't hold on to places long enough to capture long-term appreciation (random guess is that the buyer is out of there within five years).

So this is basically a 5-year lease of a small 2-bedroom with only one bathroom for $4,200 a month. The conclusion should be self-evident.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:22 PM

2:22 -- congratulations. Only time will tell whether you overpaid.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:23 PM

Congratulations! You will love the neighborhood! Greenmarket, Prospect Park, the library, Brooklyn Museum, Botanical Gardens, Q, 2, 3 trains, 7th avenue all within 2 minute walk of your apartment!!

Welcome.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:24 PM

I CLEARLY DID NOT overpay as I sold my fully paid for home in Larchmont & will be spending my remaining years in PS so who gives a hoot if it goes up or down in the next few years.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:26 PM

A large portion of "Wall Street" jobs are actually located in Midtown.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:27 PM

good, let the wall street losers stay up on the uws where they belong.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:28 PM

Ah, of course! This is the trend of new urbanization I've been telling everyone, that is, baby boomers with little or no mortgage trading down huge homes in the burbs for Brownstone Brooklyn apts & houses. Less taxes, less need to drive, people everywhere. Makes total sense. Prices will continue to rise 5-7% in PS, Cobble Hill, Boerum Hill, Fort Greene, Downtown over the next decade.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:29 PM

Who will prop up your prices then?

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:31 PM

As gas prices rise, you are going to see this trend increase quite dramatically, 2:29.

Also...why would I want to continue paying 20K a year in taxes to support a school system I have long overgrown...?

As people age, they want to make connections with others like them. This is easier in an urban environment.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:33 PM

Baby boomers, foreigners, wall street, trust fund rastafarians will all prop up prices

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:34 PM

2:31...are you the same person who said that no one on Wall Street would ever consider any other neighborhood besides Brooklyn Heights in Brooklyn and now you're claiming that these same people are propping up the prices in Park Slope...?

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:34 PM

Right on 2:33! Baby boomers ain't they're parents geezers. These people like socialization. This is Reverse White Flight - it's newurbanization, my friend. No need to pay mad coin to the towns of the burbs when your kids no longer attend the public schools.
They'll use those paid off mortgages to buy condos & coops & tax savings & savings from less driving to support the restaurants & bars of Brooklyn. Brooklyn is where it be.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:37 PM

This was obviously a one-bedroom apartment with a living room and a dining room. The original living room was converted to a bedroom and the original dining room is now the living/dining area. It probably would fetch more in its original configuration as it would appeal to affluent singles or young marrieds. A cut-up unit like this would appeal to budget-conscious types and in that case, this is priced too high. I hate to see gracious apartments cut up like this. In fancy neighborhoods, it actually diminshes their re-sale value.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:38 PM

Does anybody here actually believe 2:22/2:26?

Just a random straw poll...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:42 PM

"trust fund rastafarians"

get yer cliches in order.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:43 PM

We live in New Jersey and are looking to make the move to Park Slope as well! Congrats on this place...we probably would have taken a look! Any other nice 2 bedrooms out there in this area of North Park Slope for less than 800K? Everything we find is snatched up before we are able to come in and look!

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:44 PM

I believe 2:22/2:26. One easy way is to call Warren Lewis and ask if they have an accepted offer.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:45 PM

Jerzee girl

Check this out:

http://www.halstead.com/detail.aspx?id=1597314

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:48 PM

Thanks, 2:48, but that location...State between 3rd and Flatbush is not Park Slope. I grew up in Brooklyn so I know the area well.

That apartment has been listed for over a year and is on a really horrible loud corner.

I'm 100% sure you are the broker as I've seen you link that apt. to numerous other posts throughout the year.

Oh, and I'm not a girl.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:50 PM

that broker with halstead is the SLIMIEST guy ever!!!

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:52 PM

2:22/2:26...not to rain on your parade, but have you bought in NYC before? Call us when the contract is signed. An accepted offer is almost next to meaningless in NYC.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:52 PM

2:38 is right. It's a one-bedroom, with a dining room masquerading as a second bedroom. Paying 759K (if that's true) for a 1br is steep.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:53 PM

2:53, I just sold a 500 sf 1 bedroom in this area for 589K about 2 weeks ago. This place, while configured differently is quite a bit larger than that. This is also a really great and well run building. Top notch.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:55 PM

2:22, debate is back on. We just offered $769,000 and it was accepted. Ball's in your court...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:56 PM

I think it's adorable how these older folks who were from Brooklyn left to the burbs to nest and are now coming home. I'm sure it will be a nice homecoming for them to see how much Brooklyn has changed over the years...mostly in extremely positive ways.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:57 PM

2:22, debate is back on. We just offered $769,000 and it was accepted. Ball's in your court...

liar

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 2:57 PM

Isn't Flatbush near 3rd in the BAM Cultural District? That area will boom! Close to every neighborhood & across from every subway. Don't see your point 2:50pm

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:08 PM

some nice news for a change:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/nyregion/23cnd-scores.html?hp

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:08 PM

I'm putting in an offer for $775,500 tonight.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:15 PM

3:08 - Do improving test scores count when a 15% increase in scores is coupled with a decrease of 15% of what is considered passing?

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:16 PM

I'm putting in an offer of $775,500.01 tomorrow mid-morning.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:17 PM

3:16,

yes.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:21 PM

I feel really sorry for people like 3:16 who are unable to accept good news like this. They must have an incredibly horrible existence...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:22 PM

I guess 12:56 was right. I'm putting in an offer of $775,500.02 plus a full month of complimentary babysitting tomorrow afternoon. It's going to be a long night for 2:22/2:26. Try to tone down the cockiness next time.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:23 PM

Pikers. I'm bidding $1m. If prices are going to go up 5-7%/year, why not pay more. 5% of $1m is more than 5% of $750000, so I make more money by spending more.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:24 PM

Some of the people posting on this blog get more and more pathetic with each passing day.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:24 PM

Almost $800k for a 1 bath glorified 1 bed in Park Slope?

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:25 PM

Yep that's right, 3:25. That means people love Park Slope, despite your best efforts to trash it. The neighborhood is in the press CONSTANTLY and while a lot of it is ridiculous and silly, it makes people want to live there even more. My girlfriend who works at one of the top 3 brokers says that Park Slope is having a banner year in terms of sales. She says it's the first neighborhood the majority of people want to look at if they're moving from Manhattan and she said the interest from foreign buyers has been nothing if not "shocking"

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:28 PM

Of course, why not? It's a much better neighborhood than the UWS, let alone Cleveland, and in Cleveland people are jumping over each other to pay $800k for one bedrooms with clanking radiators and no w/d or a/c. In fact, they are happy to pay four or five times the rental value.

This place is a relative bargain, since you'd probably have to pay $1500/month to rent a comparable one, and the costs to buy it are only about $5000/month.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:31 PM

For anyone trying to figure out this blog:

real estate = egomaniacal narcissists

that's about it

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:43 PM

2:22 - Congrats. Its a beautiful space in the best NY location. I am sure that you will never have regrets or doubts.

3:31 - This place would rent for much more then $1500! This space can command around $2500 per month.

I own a building on 5th ave and my 1 bedroom apartments (which are a lot smaller then this place) rent for around 1750.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:47 PM

I have an honest question - at $759K plust $1000+ maintenance, one's out of pocket after tax cost is over $4200 a month. I earn about $200K a year, with a kid, and we have run the numbers with our accountant brother and others, and they are telling us that we really cant afford that type of price tag (over 45% of our take home pay after insurance, 401K, Roth etc).

Are we being too concervative, and everyone leverages themselves like that? or what?

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:54 PM

My understanding is that prices decreased in Park Slope '06 to '07. No idea if that is average or median or in a particular price range. I think it was in the annual Corcoran report.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:55 PM

3:31 -- how do you get $5000 for costs? At 7% for interest/opportunity costs, the purchase is $4500/month, and the tax subsidy covers 1/3, so it's really only $3000. Add $1127 for maintenance, with $100 back from the tax welfare dept (unless you are subject to AMT in which case it is less), and you are only paying $4000.

That's not even double the rental value. And it's way less than you'd pay for a comparable place in Mayfair or Knightsbridge.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:57 PM

3:54 -- I wonder the same thing all the time. I make about $350k/year and have a couple of kids. There is just no way I would pay asking price for most of the 3-beds in PS. Either people have a lot more parental/trust fund help than I thought or they are just willing to spend their every last dollar just to say they are owners instead of renters. I happily write my $3900/mo check to my landlord every month - nowhere near the $6k to $9k I would have to spend for the "privilege" of owning.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 3:58 PM

3:54 -- no, you are being sensible. All over the country people are in trouble because they gambled in that way. It's going to happen in Park Slope too.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:01 PM

If you borrow to buy an asset that you can't really afford, and the asset price goes up, you sell and make lots of money. If the price goes down, you sell and lose lots of money.

Econ 101 tells us that in the medium term, prices have to be about the same for owner-occupants and investor-landlords (after adjusting for the tax subsidies to owner-occupancy). Otherwise people will buy the cheaper one and convert it to the other, until the market adjusts.

Right now, buying -- after the tax subsidy -- costs 50% - 150% more than renting. So rents are going to go up or purchase prices are going to go down.

Pay your money and take your bet. Which is it going to be?

(Hint: no one would ever pay more than they can afford today in order to rent just because they think rents are going higher tomorrow.)

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:07 PM

3:54 and 3:58 - I agree with your thoughts (I guess you have some business sense if you are doing that well), and have to weigh in that most people do levarage themselves a bit too thin. It was easy with the market rising so much over the past decade and credit being given away to anyone, but I would have to agree that today's buyer has to really rethink their decision. If you are going to stay in the apartment for the long haul, then thats one thing, but for most Slope 2-bedroom buyers who will look to sell within 5 years when they outgrow their place, Im not sure its a wise move anymore.

I would agree that the apartment in question is not a good buy at that price with that maintenance.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:09 PM

3:58 - well, you don't have to buy the most expensive thing you find. we have a 1950 sq ft. condo with a terrific backyard. we put down 30% on $950K (about 1 1/2 years ago) and have total payments of just over $4400 (mortgage/cc's/taxes). We get a lot of money back, so we figure our real cost is closer to like $3300. We live in north williamsburg near mccarren park. There are tons of kids in our building, and we are all happy with the local school options there. It's safe, convenient and the amenities in the area are excellent. There are still reasonable neighborhoods.

not debating PS vs. williamsburg here (so.. please don't), just pointing out other options financially.

i am really really picky about design, decorating, making changes, doing built ins, landscaping etc... so i need to own. also, my payments are set, and your rent is only going to go up unless you move to a worse neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:16 PM

I also wonder. I know a number of people who are buying (and attempting to buy) one-bedroom apartments in the 600K range who earn roughly $100K gross (where I fit in). Assuming they can get approved, I just think that is insane in todays economy. Im lucky to have purchased some years ago, and I wish, in hindsight, that I leveraged myself more thinly then due to the crazy real estate boom. Am I in the minority?

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:21 PM

I don't see why someone making 200K/350K a year would feel priced out by a mere 799K co-op. I don't get it.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:23 PM

3:54 - you are not alone. Our situation is fairly comparable to yours. We dont see ourselves in a 2-bedroom for more than another 5-years and considering prices, we decided in made the most financial sense to rent. After some looking, we were able to rent a nice 2-bedroom in the slope for $2500 in a good location, and we'll enjoy for the next bunch of years without having to worry about our investment (and if we were wrong and the market somehow manages to rise 10% or more a year for the next 5 years like the past then, oh well). We'll continue to invest the savings, and when we move and buy, it will hopefully be for the long haul and I wont ever think about this s--t ever again (at least not for another 25 years or so) ;)

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:34 PM

As cute as it is, this place seems to be 750 sqft tops. That pretty much amounts to slightly over $1000/sqft, with a maintenance that's also very high even for a full service building. It's got overpriced written all over it. But he, what do i care, i am not the one buying it.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:35 PM

3:58 here. I don't feel priced out; It's not that I can't afford to buy, it's that other people can't but do anyways. I don't want to get caught in the downdraft when other people realize they are in over their heads (I'm also the kind of guy who bought my family car used for $7,000 in cash and shudder at the thought of borrowing money for an automobile). I am a happy renter for now. I used to own in the 'burbs and sold last year, moved down here and rented. I will buy again, just not in this market right now.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:40 PM

This is priced right for Brooklyn Heights but it is high for Park Slope.

Most good co-ops do not even bother to meet you if you are spending more than about 33% of your gross income on housing.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:41 PM

4:23 - I agree that someone earning 350K can easily afford it to pay $4K a month. But someone earning 200K (taking home $110K as 3:54 claims), with a kid (and attached expenses), its a tough one. Prudent financial advisors will tell you that 45% of net spent on housing costs is way too much.

Again, some people are more optimistic and less conservative - figure their income will only rise, the market will continue to rise etc. Depends on your cojones I guess.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:42 PM

I rent a brownstone of 10 studios/small 1 bedrooms one block from here. The studios rent for between 1500-1700 and the one bedrooms from 2100-2500.

Whoever said you could rent this place for 1500...or even 2500 are nuts.

My place is a walk up and this is a full service building. This apt. would sell for AT LEAST 3000 which just goes to show how out of touch some of you are with rents. Just because YOU have a deal does not mean that is market rent. Take a look through craigslist sometime and see what you come up with. I just did and besides for a few 1500 studios, the only thing in "Park Slope" under $2000 a month is on 20th street.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:56 PM

Jersey: Our place is available - its 1000 sqft loft and others have put up walls and turned it into as many as 2br + den: www.11sterlingplace.com

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:56 PM

Someone who makes 350K a year, thinks 4K a month is too much and is still renting, is not very smart.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 4:57 PM

4:56...A lot of people don't understand that the Park Slope market in the north (named streets) commands a significant premium over other areas of Park Slope (minus perhaps 3rd street) because of a combination of it being located in the historic district along with the much better train access. The blocks in the north are all more gorgeous than the next and close to Grand Army Plaza, which is a plus with all the amenities up there...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:08 PM

4:56 - Im the one who found a nice apartment in the north slope in a owner occupied BStone for $2500. Genrally we saw comparable 2-bedrooms ranging from $2500-$3000. Some brokers were willing to negotiate on fee (we rented directly from owner at the end). We didnt focus on one-bedrooms but saw them going for about $1800-2300, depending on size and condition and location. I think July through September rent prices may be a bit higher due to college grads moving in, with them dropping again in the fall.

4:57 - In this market, someone who makes 350K a year and can rent a decent apartment (for them) for $3000 a month, investing the rest wisely is quite smart. Right now there are better investment options than real estate, and his rent is low enough to make it a likely decision. I know a handful of people who have sold at huge profits and are now renting for the time being.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:15 PM

"Take a look through craigslist... the only thing in "Park Slope" under $2000 a month is on 20th street"

Get your lazy butt off the internet and walk around to the local real estate offices. You willfind plenty of places - actually in Park Slope - for under $2000.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:17 PM

i know most people dont care but I rent a place a few blocks away on flatbush thats much larger for $3200. The location isnt nearly as good and the building is kinda shitty and I share it with 3 others but I still pay $800 a month to live pretty damn close to whoever buys this place. Im still in park slope yet live in a completely different world than whoever buys this place. Kinda crazy

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:20 PM

"Get your lazy butt off the internet and walk around to the local real estate offices. You willfind plenty of places - actually in Park Slope - for under $2000."

Just walked yesterday and stopped to look at every real estate office I saw along 7th and 5th.

The absolute cheapest listing I saw was 2200 and it looked like a dump. The rest were 2500-6000.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:24 PM

We rent a 2 bedroom on 8th and Garfield for $4200 a month. It's really nice though with a private terrace and top of the line everything.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:27 PM

i rent a 1 bed on 8th and president for 2800.

not sure where you people find these deals, but it doesn't sound like the norm. park slope is expensive!!

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:29 PM

The more I hear about these rents in Park Slope, the more I think the cries of it costing 100% more to own than to rent are urban legends. I think it might be people who rent (myself included) trying to justify why they don't own.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:31 PM

I think a lot of people really underestimate the tax benefit of owning. At the outset, almost your ENTIRE mortgage payment is interest, which is a tax write off. I usually pay around 2K come April 15th and this year (my first full year owning) I got back almost 10K bucks!!!

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:38 PM

We rent on Berkeley Place and 7th and pay 3600 for a 2 bedroom.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:39 PM

this took me 2 seconds to find.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/fee/729815103.html

pretty good deal too.

3rd st btw 7th and 8th

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:40 PM

Yes, the slope is expensive, but you can get rental deals because many owner-occupied brownstones have rental units. Alot depends on timing and perseverance. Though $4200 on a 2-bedroom in the slope - that is alot. It must be the phattest apartment in the neighborhood! My friends pay that much for a nice doorman 2-bedroom on the UWS, which can be way expensive.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:41 PM

I bet this place is still on the market in a month.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:43 PM

5:38 - Pretty much every on this board understands the ins and outs of owning an apartment and the tax benefits etc etc. Mortagge tax deduction is one part - a major part - of the analysis. Another element is the down payment and lost investment potential, the general state of the economy, mortgage rates, price to rent comparable living arrangement etc etc. Again, remember, if you sell within 5 years, you will have paid off a very samll percentage of the motgage pricipal. Add to that closing costs, transfer and state taxes, broker fees etc etc blah blah.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:47 PM

when I moved to Park Slope a year and a half ago I had half a day to find an apartment for my gf and I. I ended up with a 400 sqf 1bed on Lincoln by 8th ave on the back of the forth floor. It was 1650 with no fee and new everything. I thought I was getting ripped off at the time.

some people obviously arnt looking or are really really stingy

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:49 PM

What I'm seeing from some of these quoted rental prices, is that it is not nearly as good to rent as it is to buy. If I'm forking over 3K or 4K I month, I'd like it to go towards something rather than into the pocket of a landlord. And in 30 years, I will be done and you'll be still pluggin away with the rent payments.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:51 PM

any thoughts on this one which just sold.
http://www.bhsbrooklyn.com/detail.asp?id=903921

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:52 PM

400 square feet is tiny for a 1 bedroom. 1650 sounds about right to me.

But it also shows that whoever said the co-op of the day would rent for 1500 is a total moron.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:53 PM

well Mr. 5.51 the key is roommates.

but most people are to dumb or uppity for that.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:53 PM

I think of owning as forced saving. Sad to say, my husband and I are very bad savers, and truly ignorant about financial investing, and by being forced to pay a mortgage every month we don't spend it on other things. That's what happened with a house we bought upstate - poured so much money into fixing it up that if we added it all up we probably didn't actually make a profit, but when we sold we did have 200,000 in cash - cash we NEVER would have saved if we didn't own a house.

All these people who say there are better places to invest are probably more savvy financially than many of us and probably more responsible about saving.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:53 PM

5:52....I think the new owner got one hell of a beautiful apartment. We don't know the selling price, but I know it was only on the market for a few weeks, because I live on that block...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:54 PM

5:53, I TOTALLY agree with you. The minute I started owning, I saved more...for a rainy day, for maintenance, for whatever. Now I've been lucky and haven't had a major repairs, but I now have a very sizeable nest egg from the savings that owning forced me to do to feel comfortable. I hear the same thing from many people. It's also another way how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...

Sad, but true...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:57 PM

Who wants to live with roommates after about the age of 30?

I'd much rather buy a studio.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 5:59 PM

Guys, it is impossible to make any accurate conclusions based on prices alone. Im sure that the $2500 4:56 paid is much smaller and not as updated than the $4000 apartment that 5:27 rents - and you have to compare purchase prices accordingly. My guess is that the type of apartment you rent for $4000 - large, with the great location, high end upgrades, outdoor space etc) would probably sell for well over $800K, likely alot more.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 6:01 PM

is the $1650 a month 400 square foot person trying to make that seem like a good deal??

i'm confused.

that's not a bargain. i pay less than that for my mortgage and maintenance on my north slope studio...just recently purchased...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 6:03 PM

But still, 6:01...an 800K purchase price with the tax deduction is going to be something like 5K a month. So when rents are getting up towards 4K a month and over, it's getting close to being a toss up between which (renting or owning) makes more sense...

For some people (me for one) once I hit the 2K mark, it was time for me to start spending that money on some equity as I simply didn't feel comfortable paying such sums to a landlord any further. Everyone is different though...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 6:05 PM

Some people don't view housing in Brownstone Brooklyn as an investment. They view it more like buying a diamond or a faberge egg...or a ferrari. If they have the money, they just want it.

I find this to be the case often actually.

Do you go around telling all your friends that they overpaid for their $200 Banana Republic jacket (which cost about 3 dollars to make?)

Or how about that collections of cd's which each cost $1.40 to make and produce...??

And you can't LIVE inside a recording or a jacket...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 6:09 PM

2:22/2:26 - this is the guy who bid on your larchmont house. see the thing is that the bank called today. they said we didn't get approval for our loan after all. it seems the mortgage market has changed some. oh well, i'm sure you can still back out of you offer, right?

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 6:13 PM

actually, you can live in a jacket. just not very comfortably...

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 6:17 PM

6:05 - I think the point is that you have to look at all factors in making the decision - you cant just compare monthly rent and monthly net ownership costs. You have to factor in intentions and the marketplace. If you see yourself leaving and selling in 5-6 years (say you now have 2 kids and you need more space) like some posters have alleged, then at this point I think it might make finacial sense to rent. You have to factor in investment value of your down payment (how you would invest $160K if you didnt use it for a down payment) compared to the market over the next 5-6 years (will the market be flat, increase at 2-3% a year, 10% a year, go down??)- add to that closing costs at sale, transfer, state and brokers fees, etc etc. If you'll be there for a long time or there is a liberal sublet policy, maybe buying is better. It all depends. Its an investment - some are good and some are not. Over the long haul, real estate and blue chips always increase. Over the short period, maybe not.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 6:20 PM

A-"i rent a 1 bed on 8th and president for 2800".

B-"We rent a 2 bedroom on 8th and Garfield for $4200 a month"

I hope these number triple 15 years from now!

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 6:24 PM

6:09 - your analogies dont hold economically. You cannot compare consumer items with real estate. While there is alot of emotion involved with real estate - in the end it is an investment. In the long run almost always a good one (though def. not always the case in the short run - ask my sister who bought a condo in 1987 and had to sell in 1993!). You can (generally) rent a comparable apartment to one that you can buy, and whether to do one or the other is a financial decision pure and simple. Of course, if there is no rental market for the real estate you want to purchase (e.g. whole browstones), then that is another story.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 6:29 PM

Zowie, trotting out that ridiculous and tired "faberge egg" metaphor?

Sales must be WAY down.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 7:41 PM

park slope is nicer than the manhattan neighborhoods i know about where you can buy a 2 bedroom for less than 750K.

and williamsburg is for losers.

i should know...i live there.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 8:07 PM

Muffin shops ???? HEATHER IS BIFF!!!

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 8:26 PM

"that's not a bargain. i pay less than that for my mortgage and maintenance on my north slope studio...just recently purchased.."

so lets say your maint is around 300 or 400 if your lucky. after tax deduction your Studio would have cost around 250k to have a monthly cost of less than $1650 which is a great deal for park slope if you bought in the last year. But recently purchased might mean 4 years ago.

but with that being said 1650 for a studio is still retarded, renting or buying.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 8:30 PM

8:30, my maintenance is 250. other than that, you're about right on although it was a bit more than 250K. and i bought in late 2006...

studios can still be bought for less than it costs to rent one...

i'm not saying 1650 for a studio isn't retarded, but you do realize that the average rental of a studio in manhattan has now topped 2000, right?

you all need to make yourselves familiar again with 2008 rental prices and not what you are paying after living in a place for 10 years...

this city is EXPENSIVE.

average manhattan 1 bedroom rental has now surpassed 3K a month for a doorman building.

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 9:04 PM

UMMM....8:26, this is old news. Biff is Heather, Nokilissa, Bxgrl and probably some others we don't know about it. It came out in a multiple day insanity fest with Biff talking to himself with some of his other registered guest logins.

Same with Daveinbedstuy/Aussie/Bold Type Guest.

Notice how they've accomplished the exact opposite of what they hoped...the faded type guests are now more respected since every registered guest is suspect to be an alias for either Biff or Dave trying to re-enter the bstoner comments section.

And you KNOW they are posting as guests too...!

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 9:07 PM

I think stoner should do away with the bold type names, everyone should be "guest" because half the blog is spent discussing who is who and who is what and who's on first it is SO BORING to those of us who here to discuss real estate.
the worst offender is that man or woman biff, ugh!

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 9:13 PM

yeah that dudes outta here

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 9:26 PM

who wans to move into this apartment with children? what are people thinking today? this is a city apartment for a single person or a childless couple. if you want to have children move to the country where you can have some space. honestly, this trend of cramming children into one or two bedroom co-ops in expensive neighborhoods is ridiculous. I mean if you are really rich buy a brownstone and send the kids to berkely carroll or wherever. if you are middle class, why are you even considering shoe-horning yourself into a coop in Park Slope? are you mad? there are so many better options. really, force yourself to consider them. snap out of it!

Posted by: guest at June 23, 2008 10:50 PM

I think most people who buy these 2 bedroom/1 bath apartments don't usually have a brood of kids. Often they are a couple without kids and want to have an apartment with an office/guest room that they can use for the kid once they have one, and only until the kid gets to be old enough that they outgrow the space and have to sell. Thats kind of why the pictures in the sales listings often show one room with a crib or toddler-sized bed in it. Time to move onwards.

In any event, people 'shoehorn' themselves into apartments because they want to live in the freaking city. I dread - DREAD - the day I have to travel over an hour each way to work, where I have to get into a car a drive to pick up a carton of milk or loaf of bread. I can live in a 4-bedroom house with a nice yard for what I pay each month to live in this city - but we shoehorn ourselves in order to be able to be here.

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 12:48 AM

Just saw this place at 209 Lincoln over the weekend, and it seemed pretty comparable to me: www.tbelknap.com. It was listed at $719K. It's PS 282, but otherwise pretty similar. What's the diff?

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:26 AM

ps. 321

Posted by: guest at June 24, 2008 10:41 AM