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May 12, 2008

Will IKEA Be a Traffic Nightmare for Red Hook?

Today's NY Post has a story that looks at the measures being taken to mitigate the car and people traffic that some believe is going to overwhelm Red Hook when the home-furnishings giant opens next month. First off, there's going to be a free Water Taxi running between Lower Manhattan and IKEA every 40 minutes when the store is open. Second, the MTA is extending the B61 and B77 bus lines so they stop directly in front of the store, and IKEA is going to offer a free shuttle between the Borough Hall/Court Street, Smith/9th Street, and 4th Avenue/9th Street subway stops every 10 minutes. The closest subway stop to IKEA, Smith/9th, is more than a mile away from the store. The retailer built 1,400 parking spots and expects 14,000 cars to flock to the store every Saturday. John McGettrick, co-chair of the Red Hook Civic Alliance, believes that number is going to be closer to 20,000, and he says the traffic is going to sink Red Hook's character. "There's been no IKEA in this country ever put in a situation like this; most others like the ones in Elizabeth and Paramus in New Jersey have direct access off highways," says McGettrick. "This is on a tiny peninsula that is basically a dead end."
IKEA Goes to Se-a in Red Hook [NY Post]
Photo by marko boni.

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Comments

I'll never understand why they didn't put this thing by JFK or in the South Bronx.

Highway access would have been better, and a prime waterfront lot wouldn't have been wasted. Why is the city so intent on maintaining an industrial Red Hook?

All they had to do was rezone the area to allow residential use and Ikea never would have been able to afford the land.

Posted by: Polemicist at May 12, 2008 9:49 AM

"Ikea never would have been able to afford the land."

Ikea could buy planet Earth if they wanted to. Are you aware how wealthy Mr. Ikea is? You might be shocked.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 9:56 AM

Polemicist - the area will never work as residential without better mass transit - People may take boat plus bus etc... to go to this store every once in awhile (and have furniture delivered) but day in-day out, Red Hook is just too under served with transportation to make it viable for regular working folks.

Although with Free Water Taxi and free shuttle busses - I may have just found a way to commute for free.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:01 AM

This Ikea has highway access. It is less than one mile off the BQE. The Elizabeth Ikea is actually farther from the highway(a little more than one mile). Traffic at that toll is a nightmare.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:02 AM

"Who could ever have imagined that an Ikea would cause traffic problems in Red Hook?"

-Condi Rice

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:05 AM

It is such a tired lame argument that the reason Red Hook will not work as residential is because there is not enough mass transit. There are plenty of other neighborhoods in the city that are as far a walk from the subway and function very well as residential neighborhoods. If Red Hook went residential it would have no trouble attracting residents.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:18 AM

10:18 - please name a few

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:24 AM

10:18 is on to something, but the "tired, lame" argument" you point out, I believe, is easy to poke holes through. I know of dozens of people (including my family) who would move to red hook in a heartbeat is there were more (or better) public transportation options.

Posted by: Fjorder at May 12, 2008 10:24 AM

"But just in case they want to drive, IKEA officials said the city has agreed to hang over a dozen signs directing drivers from the BQE to IKEA, via the shortest routes on local streets."

They better not hang signs in my neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:25 AM

The upper east around Gracie Mansion, one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the city, is further from the subway than many parts of Red Hook.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:29 AM

Re: The Elizabeth Ikea

Technically, the drive is longer from the highway, but that misses the point. The road to the Elizabeth Ikea is six lanes wide and does not pass through any residential areas. There are only one or two public roadway intersections before you get to the store. In RH, there is no escaping that all that traffic will be going down city streets. There must be 10-15 intersections, many without stoplights, from the highway to the store, not to mention multiple approaches with peiople stuck in traffic likely to turn here and there in seach of an edge. To the extent it will be possible for the City to get a good handle on it and get a good flow, it is going to take a while and some trial and error.

We love Ikea. But we aren't going anywhere near there by car for three months, until the novelty wears off. Whether or not Ikea is ultimately good or bad for RH has been debated endlessly on this site and elsewhere. Pro or con, however, there is simply no getting around that traffic is going to be nightmarish when this opens. I just hope we can get to the Red Hook pool, Hope and Anchor, Circus Sundays and the Valentino pier without too much trouble this summer.

Posted by: slopefarm at May 12, 2008 10:30 AM

The lower east side around Delancey Street and and Houston is also as far from the subway as much of Red Hook. The fact is, when you are talking about waterfront property, they are almost always a good walk from the subway. Do you need more examples?

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:32 AM

I used to think that Ikea did some things well, but not since they decided to move to Red Hook. Now i completely resent Ikea. I just don't understand how they could have made such a stupid decision and how the city could have allowed it.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:38 AM

From Ft Hamilton... W 9th Street and Columbia Streets are the primary roads. How residential are these? To my memory the only residential area around there is are the Projects.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:42 AM

Agree with 10:30. I think it'll be great to have an IKEA so close, but I'll be staying away for a few months. First the novelty will need to wear off, then the back-to-school crowds will need to disperse.

And yes, I do believe that the traffic will be uncontrollable--especially in the beginning. Experience with other openings in IKEA-hungry areas proves that. But eventually the traffic will level out.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:46 AM

And the projects don't count???????!!!!!

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:46 AM

Wow there seems to be a lot of latent racism in these posts.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:47 AM

they need to re-pave the roads. They're pretty shitty. It causes everyone to drive at 10 mph.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:50 AM

Who buys crap from Ikea except college students anyway.

You people make fun of any person who has ANYTHING Ikea in their photos here, so what do you care???

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:50 AM

No the Gracie Mansion are is approximatley 8/10 of a mile to a Lexington Ave Express stop and is a very easy walk through a residential area (and has plenty of buses)
The Lower East Side (which isnt known for great public transport) in most places is about 7/10 of a mile from the M lines and V lines and about 8/10 of a mile to the IRT Lexington Ave lines - which are also relatively easy walks through residential neighborhoods.

Red Hook is in most places (not even near the water) at least 1M from the F line and it is a horrible walk through industrial district across major roads (like Hamilton Ave) and under the BQE - plus then you got to go all the way to the top of the Viaduct - all for the slowest train around.

I know you all want to tout Red Hook but sorry - the mass transit there is terrible.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:50 AM

One of the main reasons that Ikea was able to talk (lie) their way into Red Hook was by promising jobs to the neighborhood residents. But now that everyone has been hired they refuse to release the number of people they have hired from Red Hook. Hmmm, sounds like a company you can trust.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:53 AM

"The upper east around Gracie Mansion, one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the city, is further from the subway than many parts of Red Hook."

in addition to what (the last 10:50 points out, i hardly think people going to gracie mansion are doing much walking out of necessity...

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:59 AM

IKEA is coming and the ensuing traffic snarls will not send the Swedes backing. Can we all stop talking about why this shouldn't have happened and focus on mitigations? For example, route IKEA away from Van Brunt Street as it is a bus/truck route and one of the major n/s connects in to the neighborhood. Split the B61 into two routes from Fulton Mall so frequency improves. And finally, ask Ikea to stay open until 11:00 PM so prospective shoppers that work during the day don't feel compelled to drive out to Red Hook during the evening rush hour. Fix up and provide security on the rickety pedestrian that runs beneath the BQE and over the BBT entrance. If the ped bridge was safe, the walk to the F would be decreased by 15-20 minutes.

No more rant, rant, rant...

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 11:08 AM

Red Hook is the perfect location for this store because it is a commercial zone and it is walking distance from home for many of the employees. I can't wait for it to open. I and many others will no longer have to drive out to Elizabeth, Paramus or Long Island to shop in Ikea. Sure the traffic will be a pain but there are traffic calming techniques that can be instituted to deal with this.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 11:12 AM

And yes, I do believe that the traffic will be uncontrollable--especially in the beginning. Experience with other openings in IKEA-hungry areas proves that. But eventually the traffic will level out.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 11:13 AM

I am more interested if the Ikea transports (boats and shuttle buses) can be hacked for free commuting

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 11:14 AM

Better check your map.
At the furthest points (Fairway/Ikea) is a mile from subway station.
Projects and other residential is less than a mile.