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May 22, 2008

Cop Fired on in Aftermath of Rally at Grand and Putnam

Yesterday's press conference at the corner of Grand and Putnam avenues about the recent wave of violent crime in Eastern Clinton Hill (photo on the jump) must have touched a nerve: Less than 12 hours after Councilmember Letitia James and Deputy Borough President Yvonne J. Graham finished decrying the lack of resources being devoted by the city to the 88th Precinct, a traffic cop was shot at just yards away. According to a detective we spoke with this morning, the shooter fired on a traffic policeman in his patrol car between 2 and 2:30 a.m. this morning; the bullet missed its mark. The street is now closed off and the detective going door to door, in marked contrast to the shrug-like response that last week's drive-by shooting on the corner elicited from the law enforcement community. The casual attitude taken by the precinct towards the situation was crystallized by a comment the same detective made to us. Because the corner was much worse a decade ago, he suggested, everyone should just be happy and stop complaining about it now. (This sounds remarkably similar to a comment another cop made to someone we know a couple of years ago that if she didn't like the way things were in the neighborhood she should move out.) This from a guy, we can assure you, who lives nowhere near the neighborhood he works in. We'll see whether this latest attack on their own gets the police to focus on this problem that has been under their noses for years. A good place to start might be the hours of videotape that the landlord of the problem building has of drug transactions going on in broad daylight. Up to now, the police have shown zero interest in viewing them. Maybe DA Charles Hynes can make the time.
Another Shooting on Grand and Putnam [Brownstoner]
Turning Up The Pressure on Grand and Putnam [Brownstoner]
Murder on Putnam: Will The Cops Show Up Now? [Brownstoner]

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Comments

Yeah, well Brownstoner, maybe *you* should spend more time focusing on these kinds of problems and less time trying to stir up race hatred and class warfare.

Oh, wait a minute, I guess race hatred and class warfare is where the money is. Nevermind.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:04 AM

Man oh man, I am so sorry you are going through this. Thank you for having the gumption to put it on Brownstoner -- I really appreciate you taking the lead in shining a light on these cockroaches. I am sorry I missed the rally yesterday.

-- one of your Clinton Hill neighbors

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:05 AM

Call in National Guard and/or S.W.A.T. team ... but first to kick out 88th precinct cops and replace them! then secure the corner. GO TEAM!!!

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:06 AM

so if i move to Clinton Hill do my kids get free shooting lessons? you have to be crazy to live like that

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:16 AM

Isn't this quite close to the Entourage guy's house?

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:18 AM

Can we refrain from "blaming" people for living in Clinton Hill? Does it really make you all feel better to say that? Try to see beyond your smugness, please.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:20 AM

"I guess race hatred and class warfare is where the money is."

Please elaborate.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:23 AM

yes, 10:18, it's right in front

Posted by: brownstoner at May 22, 2008 10:23 AM

Man alive...this thread is going to generate some much resentment and racial animosity. It's perfect for Brownstoner.

Hate = $$$

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:25 AM

I read this site on a daily basis and am a huge fan.
However I have to weigh in on this.
But honestly the 88th has their hands full. Im not saying that they should ignore the issues and it IS up to us to raise it but not many people know what goes on at the 88th on a daily basis.
I was there not long ago when some kid tried to rob me on my way home from work and when I wouldnt let him take my back he followed me and yelled profanities in my face. I went to the 88th to put in a formal complaint because I figured this kid was probably doing this to other woman. Well, The things i saw in that precient made me thank on a daily basis that I was not a police officer in the 88th precient. Im also appalled at the poor salary the city pays them to put up with what they put up with.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:27 AM

OK. Let's take a look at that corner. Dealing goes on in broad daylight every day. Guys on bikes have weed in bags shoved down their pants. Stop and search and you will find.
Secondly, the corner block and the white building next to it on Grand are both home to drgu dealing activity. The white building has a constant day and night flow of degenerates moving through its doors. They sit outside and deal, at night "guards" take watch.
It's not a question of "whether" something is going on. It's in plain view to residents. The rights I care about are those of law abiding citizens and the vast majority of people in the area are exactly that. If you see anything, call the police. Keep calling them. And keep calling them. Day and night. Let's get these rats out of our community - let them think the whole community is watching them, taking their picture. They are weak individuals and we can BEAT THEM.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:27 AM

Yeh I'm sure Chucky Hynes will settle in to watch the tapes in the safety of his gated community of Breezy Point.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:35 AM

So your block gets to have its 'gated community' again this summer? Must be nice.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:37 AM

So that's what happen! I was up last night and heard the helicopter buzzing around. I was wondering who got shot, Again. So what do you think? Are your houses worth 1 million plus? Only time will tell.

I hope the fine people of this Blog realized they made a mistake. They thought they was buying in a "up and coming" neighborhood but, they moved to the Ghetto! I hope you realize you will have to put up with Ghetto things.

The What (Don't bother to say side remarks about me)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:40 AM

the what...by the way you speak, you are the most ghetto person on this blog.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:45 AM

I was dissapointed to not find a consistent police presence since last weeks shooting, maybe if there was a squad car out and about, last nights shooting may not have happened.

I'd call the 88th more often if I wasn't treated like a hemorrhoid on a hot day each time I called.

I find it troubling when people justify a lack of pay for poor customer service (especially when the avge officer makes 70,000yr including overtime lets remember they choose this line of work).

I think the tapes should be reviewed and a consistent presence will rapidly aid the cleaning up of this corner, maybe find a way to shutdown the deli at the corner with some violations-like when the gents behind the counter smoke cigs while making a sandwich in the presence of school kids also in the store(that was this morning), another blatant example of complete disregard for the immediate community.

Posted by: DowningByLaw at May 22, 2008 10:47 AM

For the last time the average NYC cop makes 75k+ after five years with overtime. They are not underpaid especially with the attitudes described above.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:48 AM

BTW Read this about Cognitive dissonance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Cognitive dissonance is a psychological state that describes the uncomfortable feeling when a person begins to understand that something the person believes to be true is, in fact, not true. Similar to ambivalence, the term cognitive dissonance describes conflicting thoughts or beliefs (cognitions) that occur at the same time, or when engaged in behaviors that conflict with one's beliefs. In academic literature, the term refers to attempts to reduce the discomfort of conflicting thoughts, by performing actions that are opposite to one's beliefs.

Let's see now... I buy a overpriced Brownstone in the Ghetto, check! I have no amenities in the area, check! They are shooting up my block, check! I have to pray to GOD I don't get killed, check! I have to sprint from the Train Station at night, check! My friend don't want to come to my house because it's in the ghetto neighborhood, check! I am suffering from Cognitive dissonance, check check Checkmate!!!!!!!!!!!!

The What LMMFAO!

Someday this war is gonna end.....

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:50 AM

This is why I've scratched Clinton Hill off my list for my home search.

For prices approaching (even exceeding) other safer areas, I see no point in moving my family there.

I'm sure it will evolve into a much safer more amenity-rich neighborhood one day. Right now however, as a serious townhouse shopper, I'll pass.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:50 AM

10:48 - Im sorry do you risk your life for others for "potential" 75k ONLY after 5 years? Get a grip. They are underpaid.
I cant excuse the attitude but come on.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:52 AM

Nope not underpaid at all. You choose your job. Don't like what comes with it. Get another.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:54 AM

As a start, the landlord should put the tapes up on youtube...then post a link here. Once everyone sees what's going on, maybe there will be some more pressure to make a change.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 10:55 AM

this blog and others are a voice for the community. and we are the community. it's up to us. we don't live in a ghetto and we shouldn't sit around lamenting the behaviour of individuals (of any race - though someone here is doing their best to make it about race - please take a break) - we have to find an appropriate response. blogging about police pay isnt going to help (is a 75K salary an appropriate amount to get shot? obvioulsy, no) though I'm sure everyone wants to be paid more. people in the community know who the dealers are. we can help the police. they can't be everywhere and no-one would want a policeman on every corner of every street. what we need is a plan. Call it the Grand Plan. Neighborhood watch with teeth. Let's get that going ...

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:02 AM

Let's get something straight here, because there are lots of people commenting as experts who, in fact, have absolutely no idea about Clinton Hill.

Is it worrisome that these activities are happening in the area? Absolutely, and it needs to stop. BUT, this is happening on one particular corner. Overall it's a great neighborhood to live in and calling it the ghetto is just false in every way.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:03 AM

I puzzled over the accusation that posting a story like this is somehow meant to stir up race and class hatred. Try as I might, I couldn't fathom the reasoning. That some people might respond to tense situations with knee-jerk reactions hardly mandates that such a subject is off limits. Quite the contrary. So I've decided that that accusation is mere trolling, and not worthy of engagement.

Because this site has increasingly become real estate porn as opposed to focused on renovation of homes and neighborhoods, it is perhaps natural that some see items like this in the prism of "but how does it affect real estate prices?" Let's just acknowledge it probably depresses them. Which is how I bought my house for as little as I did six years ago. Perhaps understanding better now the long-term nature of the drug trade near my home, I might very well have passed on the house. Now that I am here, however, I take seriously my responsibility to think creatively about how to address the issue.

One response is community-wide response. Ran into an acquaintence last night at Outpost who said he and his neighbors aroudn Lefferts Place were about to get a non-profit incorporation for their block association, and he was willing to work with other nearby block associations to act as umbrella for funds. Seems to me that there is room for a block association for the Grand/Gates/Classon/Fulton blocks.

Certainly the 88th precinct is pulled in many directions. The then prcinct captain explained a couple years ago that he has to cover property crimes at the malls, robberies along the rich but poorly lit blocks in Fort Greene, and drugs over in this area. That said squeeky wheel gets the grease (no pun intended vis a vis conspiracy theories about cop pay-offs - these drug operations ain't that big).

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at May 22, 2008 11:03 AM

Of course it takes a cop to get shot for the 88th to show any interest in this corner. This is a infamous corner and the police only help its infamy by doing nothing.

You will never stop the drug trade, because where there is will there is way, but you can force it to hide more and reduce its overall effect on the community!

Posted by: Pragonetti at May 22, 2008 11:04 AM

Before you start raging on cops! There are only 2 patrol cars per sector! If they have to respond to a call, that leaves to sector unguarded. Cops have to respond to plenty of things (Ambulance calls, Domestic violence and other BS). People get shot, it's the way it is. If you don't like the area, MOVE!!!!!!! Sell your house and get the Ferk out!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:06 AM

And What - since you are wrong about all but one of your checks, could you check your tired recycling of "cognitive dissonance"?

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at May 22, 2008 11:06 AM

11:03 I agree with you for the most part. Calling Clinton Hill the ghetto is a stretch but lately there has been several very violent incidents all over CH.

As a CH tax payer I am truly concerned about what going on in the neighborhood as a whole. As for that particular corner, they need to empty that building and put that entire block on lock down if need be.

Posted by: A ClintonHillLady at May 22, 2008 11:09 AM

Legalize it!

Posted by: johnife at May 22, 2008 11:11 AM

whoever wrote about "The Grand Plan" is onto something. and Putnamdenizen talking the same language. It IS a great neighborhood and it can remain that way...we have to get together and work on it

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:12 AM

"Because the corner was much worse a decade ago, he suggested, everyone should just be happy and stop complaining about it now"

that seems to be the attitude in the police department now, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly
gave the same response Tuesday night on a visit to Crown Heights when someone complained about the rise in violence, although he did leave out the second half about being happy and stop complaining.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:13 AM

"And What - since you are wrong about all but one of your checks, could you check your tired recycling of "cognitive dissonance"?"

Nope Homeskillet! The Asshats who moved in this neighborhood recently don't get it! They thought if they overpaid to stay here, the neighborhood would respond to them! How is that working?! The neighborhood has gotten expensive and has not improved one bit!! So now not only the Ghetto is still the same it's now expensive to live here!! Nice going asshats!

"Isn't this quite close to the Entourage guy's house?"

The Brownstoner replied!

"yes, 10:18, it's right in front"

Nice going Brownstoner, I think he wanted that information out there!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end///

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:15 AM

I'm not sure that emptying a huge apartment building with tens of apartments is really achievable. There are mechanisms by which a lnadlord can seek to evict certain tenants because of illegal activities. One thing the DA's office does in the Bronx is go into housing court and seek evictions from even private housing if a resident is convicted of drug dealing. As you can imagine there are often collateral victims in such a case, since the lease is often in the name of other family members and the miscreant is only one of many residents. As we learned two summers ago, putting the block on lock-down pushed the dealing over to the east and to the west (Fulton Street to Washington actually seems to have just as many if not more drug dealers hanging out).

Others may not agree but the area actually is better in terms of visible drugging and prostitution than it was two years ago. And Putnam certainly does seem to be the hipster corridor of twenty-something year olds walking from the train to their apartments along Classon. When Fulton is done and the condos in South Clinton Hill and North Prospect Heights spur greater commercial development, I have some hope that this will push some of the activity elsewhere.

And John, I agree, the war on drugs is like fighting against the tide. Of course since most of these drugs aren't "harmless", society has to be willing to transfer funds from incarceration to drug treatment.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at May 22, 2008 11:22 AM

"For the last time the average NYC cop makes 75k+ after five years with overtime."

And don't forget that they don't need to put any of that away for retirement because they have a pension coming. So, it's more like the equivalent of a 90k job. I'm not crying for anyone with a 90k job.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:24 AM

"what happens when The What accidently gets shot? You'll be leaving the area in an ambulance, if you are lucky enough to be alive. Let's face it, you are an idiot. Cutting and pasting from the internet isn't that smart. All people, rich and poor, want drugs and dealers off their streets and away from their kids. Grow up and shut up"

OK I want to see the "Outrage" of this statement! Every one jumped to Brownstoner defense when I made the statement " they missed you Brownstoner"! I want to put your hypocrisy out there for the world to see!

You move to the Ghetto and now you want everything to "all right"!

Blow me....

The What LMMFAO!!!!!

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:25 AM

A police officer was NOT shot.
It was a friggin' meter maid - traffic officer.
One that doesn't have a gun - their lethal weapon of choice is the parking ticket computer.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:26 AM

I'm all for a block association...Trees from Grand to Classon would make a big difference.

Posted by: Putnam junk yards at May 22, 2008 11:30 AM

It's a testament to your whit and character that your retorts are so sharp and insighful. "You moved to the ghetto; blow me" etc. It's clear, you are an idiot. Well done. You made it all about you. It started about a community, a cop being shot, about what can be done and how - but you reduced it to being about you. How selfless. How lucky we are to have you in our community.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:32 AM

while you are cutting an pasting, I'll write it for you.

"You moved here, I was here before" Blah blah blah.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:35 AM

He's not in our community. He lives in New Jersey. Perhaps he should focus less on our supposed cognitive dissonance and more on his own cognitive disorders> But there I have gone and responded to him. I do agree that we should avoid shooting people, however, even in hypotheticals.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at May 22, 2008 11:37 AM

Alert Alert!! Curtis Sliwa just called! He will start you Block Patrol! He will deliver the Jackets and the Flashlights! Plus he has the new beanies with the propeller on top!!!

LMMFAO!!!! I just crack myself up!!!!

Blow me, still...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:38 AM

If you frequent this site(or live in reality) and notice what properties are selling for and still use the term "ghetto" you should spend some time reading instead of yapping.

Posted by: DowningByLaw at May 22, 2008 11:39 AM

10.04 = wants censorship of events.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:40 AM

"People are not coming to your defense, What, because they want you dead. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution."

See, keep it coming...

Blow me, still...

The What

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:40 AM

only a selfish fool would move a family into Clinto Hill. Its not a safe place for a family to live. Its great if you are a Pratt student. The schools are horrible and you have to worry about what will happen to the wifey and kids when you are not around. Why oh why would you do that to them? So many beutiful safe places to live around the city why move to the ghetto.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:41 AM

Clinton Hill is NOT a ghetto!

But it is a charming, architecturally-significant, rapidly gentrifying, crappy neighborhood.

It's also way overpriced--but a couple more high-profile incidents like this will take care of that rather quickly.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:45 AM

The greatest trick Brooklyn ever played was convincing yuppies that crime no longer exists...

And to think, they call BMore "Charm City"

By the way, feel free to substitute any of the following words and phrases for Brooklyn as you please:

Bloomberg
Ray Kelly
CompStat
New York Times
Brownstoner
Sex & The City
The almighty dollar
Your favorite, honest neighborhood Realtor
Your own deluded naivete

And the list goes on....

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:50 AM

"so if i move to Clinton Hill do my kids get free shooting lessons? you have to be crazy to live like that"

You know a cop was shot by a drug dealer last year in Park Slope right? In *Prime* North Park Slope no less. And not because the dealer was passing through. He lived there. The kid who is suspected of strangling the dry cleaning owner in Windsor Terrace last week lives in Park Slope.

This is NYC. No matter how much you pay for your place you'll have this element not too far from your doorstep. Some of us are capable of accepting that, and instead of smugly judging others, will feel badly for the area experiencing the crime and hope for things to get better.

But then of course some people have strong moral character and some don't. For all your smugness over what a good parent you are, I'd be curious to know exactly how you're teaching your children to be good people when you aren't much of an example for them.

I don't live in Clinton Hill. I'm just a concerned neighbor. Good for Brownstoner for posting these news reports on his blog. Good luck to everyone in Clinton Hill. Keep up the fight. We have also experienced a casual "so what" attitude from cops in Brooklyn (about noise) because life has improved so much here they think we shouldn't bother them with our little complaints. Cops need an attitude adjustment in these precincts. It requires real leadership.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:52 AM

I'm also thinking the owner of the Putnam/Grand tenements should put up webcams, Brownstoner could have a live feed.

Posted by: Putnam junk yards at May 22, 2008 11:52 AM

Eastern Clinton Hill? Putnam Avenue is not part of the neighborhood. It's just another example of trying to stretch out the area to make it appealing to potential buyers. Instead, its destroying the nice reputation we've built over the years...

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 12:11 PM

12:11 ?

What neighborhood is that corner in, if not Clinton Hill?

Posted by: A ClintonHillLady at May 22, 2008 12:18 PM

A shooting such as the ones that took place in CH does not make the neighborhood any less safe then a traffic accident.
Yeah, I know that sounds kind of crazy to you fear mongerers out there, but the violence displayed on the corner of Grand/Putnam is isolated and not random.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 12:27 PM

What - usually you don't bother me, but the attitude you're taking on this thread is really destructive. It is great for ALL concerned that newcomers to the neighborhood are fighting to spotlight crime in the neighborhood. The more you rally and make noise, the more police are forced to respond.

I have to say I live in CG and went to my first community meeting with cops the other day because someone was murdered in their homes in a garden apt that basically backs onto mine, plus there were several break ins and a reported rape (which turned out not to be true) but the cops were SO responsive, probably thanks to decades of loud mouths in the neighborhood who made them that way. Plus some DA's rep was there, so it's good to contact DA as well.

I grew up in Hell's Kitchen before it gentrified and my father was a big fighter against the crack dealers and prostitutes on our block (there were gunshots on our corner regularly and I had a prostitute hide behind me once when I was entering the building because her pimp was chasing her) - it took a long time, but Hell's Kitchen is clearly completely safe now. So good for you clinton hillers - we all should be thanking them for starting a process of making a beautiful neighborhood even more livable.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 12:40 PM

well said, 12:40

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 12:51 PM

12:40 the only problem is hells kitchen was never expensive until it was free of drive buys and whores. Clinton Hill is the overpriced Ghetto.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 1:09 PM

12:40 the only problem is hells kitchen was never expensive until it was free of drive buys and whores. Clinton Hill is the overpriced Ghetto.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 1:09 PM

Please post the videos so The What can see where his ex wife has been spending all his alimony money.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 1:12 PM

while your crusade against drugs and violence on this corner is noble, brownstoner, this is your corner in your nabe. if you broadened your call to bring better law enforcement to similar corners in other parts of Brooklyn, it would seem less motivated by self interest.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 1:18 PM

how far away is the corner of washington and gates from here? and what is that neighborhood like?

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 1:21 PM

Brownstoners post seems typical of the liberal BS that surrounds us everywhere these days. Yes, it's not the CRIMINALS out there causing the problems, it's the police. yes, of course.

reminds of the idiotic press release put out by the 475 tenants where it's "not their fault" that they're on the street (even though they broke the law), it's a "conspiracy" by the fire department.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 1:22 PM

Cant say that I was disappointed at the lackluster turnout of people for yesterdays "rally" yet another dud by Tish- I like the idea of the grand plan and am willing to donate time , money & space to make it happen- but it was good to point out the blatant drug dealing going on in right in front of everyone

Posted by: landlord505 at May 22, 2008 1:31 PM

1:21 PM:

It's pretty much the difference between night and day in my opinion

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 1:38 PM

I have to agree with THE WHAT. Individuals that have recently bought housing in fringe areas (i.e. Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights) are likely going to suffer from this economic downturn. I believe this credit crisis coupled with inflation is going to impact the NYC economy greatly. Even well established neighborhoods are seeing significant price drops.

This article from the AEI Short Publications, gives a good prediction of the US economy and how it could affect NYC residents spending/savings and its affect on our economy, which correlates to housing:

"From 1990 to 2000--the period of most rapid American wealth accumulation--the measured savings rate out of disposable income fell to 2 percent from its long-run average of 8 percent. With real returns on investments rising at twice the normal rate...American behavior adjusted to what was perceived as a new reality. Disposable income could be virtually all consumed while wealth accumulation took care of itself through investments in the stock market and, later on, in housing. A generation of American heads of households has grown up under the impression that wealth accumulation can be left to the natural appreciation of stocks or houses.

Even a modest effort by U.S. households to increase savings could cut U.S. growth substantially. Just 2 percent of U.S. disposable income is $200 billion. If U.S. households attempt to boost the savings rate from the current zero level to 2 percent, the drag on GDP would be about 1.5 percentage points.

The Fed's measures in March of this year to avoid a credit meltdown that would have resulted from the collapse of Bear Stearns and perhaps other investment banks has helped to calm credit markets. But the U.S. economic crisis resulting from a collapse of the housing bubble and falling stock prices that combine to hammer U.S. household balance sheets is just beginning.....While tax rebate checks may boost growth slightly in the third quarter, the persistent drag from wealth losses as house prices and stocks fall and households begin saving again--coupled with bank deleveraging--will undercut the Fed's forecast for a sustainable growth rebound. Instead, a prolonged U.S. recession looks like the more probable outcome."

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 1:44 PM

It might be worth pointing out that the police making the princely sum of $75K a year can't actually AFFORD Clinton Hill.

Growing up in a gentrified neighborhood, I noticed that crime was often worse there than in neighborhoods that were actually really bad. I thought the same thing about PLG vs Park Slope when I lived in PLG... and then also Williamsburg vs. Park Slope, or Williamsburg vs. the east village.

I don't have any solutions for that, but one thing I think that does help is if community involvement actually involves everyone in the community, not just the people who paid a hell of a lot for their brownstones. It sounds like you guys are on the right track though, and I guess since it's sort of my neighborhood too, I try and get involved.

BTW, we walked by that corner last weekend and it did look extremely sketch, and in an aggressive way that gave me the creeps. And I am not easily spooked.

The other thing I'd like to see is the pro-marijuana crowd to acknowledge that crap like that is part and parcel with their lifestyle.

Posted by: Heather at May 22, 2008 1:44 PM

guest 11:21

It's about 5 blocks away and it is like night and day. Washington and Gates is just fine ... no worries.

Posted by: A ClintonHillLady at May 22, 2008 1:45 PM

Whether it's 100K for supervisory officers or 35K for rookies and yes a pension of half pay after 20 years regardless of age with a nice $12,500 check every December, it is true that we choose our professions and have to handle what comes with it. So for those of us who choose the private sector and have to pay into a pension, again your choice. The NYPD is always hiring.

Unfortunately a previous poster was correct. The person shot was a traffic agent not a cop, so this particular shooting will not neccessarily bring a better result. One thing that I have found to be extremely helpful is when members of the community are willing to assist in identifying perps. The are the ones who live in the communities and they know who the perps are. These same people must then be willing to testify in court against them. This rarely happens because people see helping the police as "snitchin."

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 1:46 PM

1:18 spare me - community action is driven by self-interest - hence why politicians and activists push for home ownership in bad neighborhoods, so people interested in their property's worth get motivated to change things. It's the only thing that really works.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 2:03 PM

What about this police "watchtower" that they were so fast in sending out to Dumbo after just a few muggings? Is that an option? What does it do? Just curious.

Posted by: bianca at May 22, 2008 2:09 PM

The other thing I'd like to see is the pro-marijuana crowd to acknowledge that crap like that is part and parcel with their lifestyle.

No, actually its "part and parcel" of prohibition.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 2:09 PM

Perhaps, but as long as you're buying it now when it is illegal, this is what you're supporting.

Posted by: Heather at May 22, 2008 2:17 PM

About 25 years ago a young woman was murdered on Hall Street. It was sensational, all over the news. (This event probably inspired the film "Art School Confidential")

At the exact same time, several young women had been murdered on rooftops on the Upper West Side, the last, most noriously, on the roof of one of the Lincoln Center theaters. This was prominent also, but after the Lincoln Center aspect was revealed the stories were delegated to the back pages. Nobody wanted to scare tourists or bridge and tunnel folks with season tickets.

I lived where I do right now, in Clinton Hill. A new work friend lived on the "safe" UWS, right near Lincoln Center. On girls night out, we had the "So where do YOU live" conversation. "Clinton Hill", I answered. "By Pratt". "OH! THAT'S WHERE THAT AWFUL MURDER HAPPENED! I WOULDN'T LIVE THERE!"

I didn't point out that she was surely in as much peril as I was. I guess it's all relative.

I am seriously concerned that current job losses and increasing expenses will boost neighborhood crime. A bad economy has made this place a living hell more than once.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 2:19 PM

"Individuals that have recently bought housing in fringe areas (i.e. Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights) are likely going to suffer from this economic downturn."

What's "recently"? How about 20 years ago, is that "recently"? Because that's how long the first wave of homeowners buying in these so-called fringe areas started arriving.

None of the improvements are "recent". They're old. They've just sped up more recently. The prices got too high because you know, just like every single other f-ing city in the country there was a lot of speculation during the bubble. Nothing unique to the fringe areas. Hardly.

Here's the big huge diff: these fringe areas are still in NYC located 15 minutes from Manhattan. Do you just no value in that? Because all those in NYC who have plenty more experience in business and city planning and real estate than you do, think otherwise about the future of Brooklyn and NYC. It is ALL about being in the city. Commuting sucks.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 2:19 PM

"One thing that I have found to be extremely helpful is when members of the community are willing to assist in identifying perps."

Did you even read the original post? The landlord has videotape of countless drug crimes and the cops are not interested.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 2:30 PM

I've lived around the corner from this spot since 2002. I love my neighborhood. I walk by that corner every day at all hours. The people who live there, and who lived there long before I moved there, are very sweet and friendly to me.

I most certainly don't run home. What an absurd thing to say.

Aside from some lewd comments here and there, which I don't appreciate, everyone else is really wonderful.

It's horrible that someone was shot, and I hope she/he recovers quickly.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 2:55 PM

Well Well.. No one person admonished the Asshat who wrote:

Yep, the hypocrisy is thick! America was built on hypocrisy. So The What is going full blast, Baby! So you self-righteous Mofo's can Blow Me!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 3:11 PM

Crown Heights sucks. It's the armpit of Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 3:12 PM

Grainy surveillance tapes won't do much to assist. They need names even if it is just nicknames and people willing to testify in court. Won't happen.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 3:13 PM

are they only selling pot on that corner? this is Brooklyn you know. Maybe you should all move back to Long Island or can you not afford the taxes to own outside of the city?

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 3:34 PM

To all of the posters who think Clinton Hill is the ghetto: please start your own gated, crime free, affordable, amenity filled, near Manhattan community and blog about it. It is far from a ghetto, and not fringe by any stretch. You would have never set foot in FG in the late 80's early 90's, and it is due to the people who had vision and stuck it out through bad times that is is what it is today. Please DON'T buy in Clinton Hill because a community is made up of people who aren't just looking to make a buck on their house, they want to be a part of the community. This applies for any up and coming or gentrifying area, stay away, you are only part of the problem. Live in what ever crime free pocket of NYC you can find and blog about how sweet it is!

Clinton Hill resident

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 3:35 PM

Blowing the What will do no good...he shot his wad jerking himself off all day.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 3:42 PM

Arguing about property prices is pathetic and stupid and distracting. There are many jealous ppl on who may even want to see crime increase because they are Jealous they had not bought a property during the good times. I think the What is one of those. You are so Jealous "What". Write some more so we can see how green you get.

Why don't we just discuss the issue and the solution?

We should take pictures of the ppl and cars that come up to buy from these dealers. Post those on YouTube or even here on Brownstoner.

The dealers can't deal if they don't have customers.

Anyone disagree (other than those jealous ppl who try to distract the issue)?

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 3:58 PM

To answer questions: 3:34 no they aren't just selling mj on the corner of Putnam and Grand (and all the way down to Washington on Fulton). It is mainly crack. Not sure about the point of the rest of your post. I think the reasons people live where they do and their commitment to making it a better place has already been addressed.

For the person (11:21) who wanted to know if the activity at Grand and Putnam implicates Washington and Gates - yes and no. The building next to Brown Memorial Church on Washington at Gates is a similar source of drugs sold inside and outside over on Fulton. There is also a prostitution hotel on Washington at Greene. The Fulton corridor remains much more marginal than the surrounding residential blocks. Because Grand and Putnam sits on the edge of empty store fronts and underdeveloped lots it stands out like a sore thumb and remains somewhat of a nomansland (despite the many people living good decent lives in the buildings in question and in surrounding houses).

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at May 22, 2008 3:59 PM

As far as taking pictures of people who buy. (1) It is dangerous (2) It is unclear who you would photograph. While many transactions are very obvious, others are more on the DL, and many innocent interactions might be confused with drug sales [leading back to #1]. (3) It presumes a level community organization which has been heretofore lacking. (4) It has the potential for heightening racial and class tensions if done without sufficient community support. There is a very real prospect of setting up a dynamic where earnest whitefolk or other newly arrived outsiders start getting into the face of young African American men who have grown up in the neighborhood. Sounds like a good movie, but not a great solution.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at May 22, 2008 4:05 PM

As a new homeowner on Grand Avenue, I think we all should spend least time blogging and more time cleaning up our community. How many of you attended the rally? You can't pay cops enuff to care about a neighborhood that they don't live in. It is up to us to make our community better. The WHAT needs a hug. I find funny that you are on a the BROWNSTONER talking tough. Please don't tell your hood rat friends that you blog on the BS. You might lose your hood pass. I grew up in the projects so please save that fake tuff talk for someone who cares. If you have nothing better to do with you time then how about you join the NYPD.

PS
I think the BS and the WHAT are the same person. LOL

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 4:09 PM

I think it is more dangerous to photo the Dealers. They are most likely to "get back at you" than the customers.

I would also imagine that most of the buyers are the kids at Pratt. Something about Artistic creativity and mj.

While I like the creative energy, if I had to choose, I would rather have a Drug Free neighborhood than one with Drugs and Creativity.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 4:12 PM

Someone that says:
"People get shot, it's the way it is."

Then ends each post with?:
"Someday this war is gonna end..."

You need to elaborate, because it sounds as if you are lamenting the end to some supposed war.

And no, people getting shot is not the way it is.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 4:13 PM

Again we aren't talking marijuan, 4;12. This is crack baby. Of course that doesn't exclude the possibility that it involves Pratt students. I'm not sure there is a drug free neighborhood.

And how would one photograph buyers without photographing sellers? And most of the buyers I see don't seem like they would take being photographed lightly.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at May 22, 2008 4:16 PM

Actually I doubt many of the buyers are from Pratt and I think little of it is mj. Most people get their mj delivered these days.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 4:20 PM

putnamdenizen,

My co-worker and I just had a good laugh at your expense. She lives in 500 washington(next to brown memorial), and I asked her did she know that her building was a drug spot and was a source of drugs on fulton street?! We literally laughed out loud! Just because some young guys congregate in front of the building doesnt make it a drug spot. 500 washington ave is NOT a drug spot or the source of drugs in the area.

www.clintonhillchill.com

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 4:31 PM

"These same people must then be willing to testify in court against them. This rarely happens because people see helping the police as "snitchin.""

Not only ddo the police IGNORE evidence from people who want to point out the bad guys (see post @ 2:30), the police can't guarantee to protect people who want to testify AND remain in their neighborhoods. Can you assure people who want to do the right thing that they will be protected?

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 4:35 PM

A- why would anyone move into a hood with crack dealers on the street

B- it is crazy to mess with crack dealers

C-what kind of way of life have you carved out for yourselves and families

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 4:42 PM

Today's camera's are very small and pocket sized. You can easily take pictures of the cars and their license plates that pull up to buy drugs from the corner ppl. I've seen it all the time.

Let's use our heads! Think outside of the box! It's not hard to photo a customer if they are pulling up with their cars. The license plate is all you need.

Can we think outside the box or do we just give in? Can you at least come up with a better solution? I'm thinking, are you?

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 4:44 PM

The What is a tranny hooker on Fulton and Classon. Say hello next time you see her "working."

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 5:19 PM

4:42 - go back to the suburbs.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 5:25 PM

it is up to everyone wherever they live to take ownership of their neighborhood. I hope all of those of you bitching about JBs self interest and such are out doing community work in other people's naybs. Of course you don't want people being shot or selling drugs or committing crimes on your street. Especially when you have little kids to care for.
I have lived in bed stuy for a long time, and consider myself part of the neighborhood,even though I dont have five generations of relatives here. What is more i consider ALL of my neighbors to be part of the neighborhood too no matter what they look like, what they do, why they own or rent their place. None of that is my damn business. Brooklyn is an amazing and diverse place to live, anyone who thinks it is somehow divided into factions who are or should be "at war" needs to find something productive to do with their time

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 5:54 PM

We used to have guns and drugs on our block in Bed Stuy
But we took ownership of the situation
we phoned the cops almost everyday for 14 months about a house on our block in where Heroin and crack being sold (heroin to the seniors crack to the kids) and hookers were working
one night, after one phone call to the cops (for noise as usual) the main drug dealers girlfriend was pulled out of there by cops beaten half to death while the dealer was jailed.
All of the entourage moved on within three days and our block no longer has a drug problem.
The house, four months later has been relet to normal people
As for the corner on the avenue where random dealers used to hang, a contingent of volunteers from our block -- most of whom had lived on this block for 30 years or more -- turned an empty lot into a city park. The same volunteers (and some newcomers) now control that corner not the drug dealers. Buyers dont like to come by much when there are a dozen people weeding and grilling.
You have to take ownership of your nayb and if some people would rather live surrounded by squalor, drugs and violence, then fine, but they're not doing it where I live.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 6:04 PM

Um, ClintonHilChill @ 4:31, I am glad I gave you all a good laugh, but in fact drugs are sold out of that building. I don't know why you would think that simply because young men congregate in front of that building that would be the source of my information - I am not naive enough to think that says anything. Nor do I think the tenor of my comments (I always sign in) would indicate that I would be so quick to jump to a stupid conclusion like that. I'll send you a private post on Brooklynian with the apartment at the building I am talking about (why doesn't this site have that same ability?). I have noticed that on both this site and on Brooklynian you are quick to discount the presence of drug dealing when it is pretty obvious to the eye (your comments discounting any link between the guys selling drugs in front of the music store on Fulton at St James is one example of this).

But I'm not really interested in getting into a dispute as to whether a building is a sometime spot or an always spot, or just on the last Thursday of the month. My point is that the selling of drugs is not limited to a few particular buildings. As I am sure you are aware, for many dealers it is a passing job of convenience which often doesn't end up paying all that well. Street level dealers move around and use different apartments for stash houses - be it the gf's house, a family member's or a user's. The name of the game is moving it around. When I raised the issue that there are other sources of drugs in the neighborhood I was trying to question those who sought to say "Putnam and Grand" bad, rest of Clinton Hill good - as different as "night and day" someone said in a very unfortunate simile. In many places this traffic goes on unnoticed or discounted (why is that doorbell ringing at night so much, door slamming, etc, oh well...)

I'm glad the traffic at your friend's building is so subtle that she doesn't even know it is going on. Doesn't mean it isn't.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at May 22, 2008 6:22 PM

4:35,

No the police can't guarantee the safety of anybody not even their own. Remember James Byrne. But there will be casualties in any struggle. I have seen people who felt so passionate about cleaning up their neighborhoods that they did what they had to do. In the case of one woman in Bushwick a copule of years back, she paid with her life for trying to get drug dealers off of her street. Her neighbors picked up in her stead and got the job done.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 7:36 PM

Brownstoner you are such a jerk. You do very little on this site other than stir up class warfare and hatred, then you whine like a child when when a little bit of hatred presents itself on your stoop in the form of a shooting. Hah. Your chickens are coming home to roost, that's all.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 8:21 PM

7:36, phrases like "got the job done" are delightfully vague. You mean they pushed the drug dealers over to the next block, or over into an even poorer neighborhood? Yeah boy, that sounds like progress.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 8:23 PM

Is Divatude still operating? Whatever happened to that short lived coffee shop or that make shift diner that has had its gates down for sometime and whose storefront now serves as a gathering spot for some of the old timers and "drunkman".
This corner is a throwback and an anomaly , police presence which seems to do little over time(although I am disturbed that there has been any in the past few days) is a panacea, the only way this corner will change is when it becomes commercially viable for more merchants, there are a few but not enough- police seem to respond much quicker to business owners than homeowners or renters(my opinion).
When that dank dark rinkydink putnam candy store is bought out and the yemenese landlords relatives(who are decent but seem to have adopted the bad habits of whom they host) ) who run the deli stop condoning and covering for that scary lady runner/lookout/prostitute on her bike and the few pre 16yr olds who aid in the traffic- then we will see a change.

Posted by: DowningByLaw at May 22, 2008 8:53 PM

Hey 8:21 PM - STFU! Brownstoner is reporting things that would otherwise not be in the community's forefront. That's very helpful to me when someone gives me news that I would not otherwise had had the chance to find out immediately in my busy schedule.

==============

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 8:21 PM

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 9:15 PM

No stupid. Got the job done means that they went to court and testified against the people who the police had in custody who were subsequently sent to prison. If a drug cartel opened up shop somewhere else, not their fault. And there aren't too many places that are poorer than this area of Bushwick. These people were not hipster gentrifiers but Blacks and Latinos who didn't have the option of picking up and moving. The women killed for challenging the drug dealers was Puerto Rican.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:37 PM

Mrs. Hernandez, a 34-year-old mother of three, and her husband, Carlos, had spent the last four years doing battle with drug traffickers in their neighborhood. They started a block association to carry on the fight and provided information to the police. Despite these efforts - and apparently because of them - Mrs. Hernandez was killed by one of five shots that someone fired through a window of her house before dawn.

The police had not been unresponsive to the Hernandezes and their neighbors. They sent in a Tactical Narcotics Team to make many arrests, and an officer from the community patrol program worked with neighbors. But that obviously wasn't enough.

"This is not the time to surrender to fear. The Bushwick community needs to summon its courage and redouble its efforts - with vigorous police and City Hall support.

There may be no way the police can protect everyone from random violence. But the drug terrorism that apparently took Maria Hernandez's life is the product of organized criminal activity. It is nothing less than an armed challenge to duly constituted authority, a challenge for anyone who would serve as mayor of New York City."

This was 1989. We could easily go back down that road. Especially with our law enforcement personnel being diverted to the "war on terrorism."

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 11:49 PM

I am saddened but not surprised to hear about the latest shooting. I just moved from 425 Grand Ave a few weeks ago & I can tell you that the landlord isn't cooperative. The politicians are all talk & nothing will happen until the people of Grand & the surrounding blocks get more involved. As someone who organized the town hall mtg & got Grand Ave completely shut down a few years ago after another drive-by shooting, I can tell you that it takes a lot of persistence, and being a pain in people's ass. I lived on Grand Ave for 8 yrs & have seen a lot of changes but the problem still persists because of the white house & the undesirables that mostly live in 435 Grand Ave. The super of 425 & 435 Grand is getting paid to look the other way, when the drug dealers enter the bldg to do business. Some of the dirty cops in the 88th Pct. are also getting paid to look the other way. Since new management took over the apt. buildings about 2.5 yrs ago, there has been no communication or cooperation w/ the 88th or the local pols. The changes are going to take time & involve a team effort from everyone, whether you're renting an apt. or paid $1.5M for your brownstone!!

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 5:05 AM

I fail to understand why anybody would not want to get rid of drugs and gun violence from their neighborhood. Perhaps if you had ever lost a loved one to either a shooting, Addiction or drug related AIDS you might think differently, Grow up and stop hating.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 7:49 AM

As a resident of 425 grand I couldn't disagree with 5.05 more. Having lived in this building for 4 years now I've seen a huge change. Jose is getting paid off by the drug dealers in 1h? Come on! I doubt that you really lived there or if you did you seem to have a problem with John. Please take it up with him, not here where we are trying to do some thing positive.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 8:22 AM

I am a black profesional who was born and raised in Brooklyn and have lived in Clinton Hill for six years now. I purposely chose to live Clinton Hill because I love the diversity, beautiful brownstones and, yes, the economic mix (including the street corner brothers who are not all drug dealing thugs). Clinton Hill is not a high crime area as some would claim but, I admit, it does have occasional disturbing violence. I wish the residents engaged in violence and illegal activity would leave or get arrested but, I figure we just have to be patient and keep up the pressure on our cops and politicians. We also have to do our part by not keeping quiet about crimes (ie. the sick and brainless "stop snitching" culture)

For those who find this too scary and who are not willing to fight for Clinton Hill please move to Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights or the upper east side where you belong. There you can enjoy the lack of diversity and plain white bread existence for which so many gentrifiers secretly crave.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 8:29 AM

Judge all you want Clinton Hill haters. Stay in Park Slope so my rent won't continue to go up every year. As far as being all worried and scared of these "dangerous neighborhoods", I have a friend living on 86th and amsterdam in the city and she was mugged twice in her neighborhood. The crime rates are higher here, and if you can't deal with that it's time to move to the suburbs. Not that action shouldn't be taken, but stop crying on blogs.

Posted by: KHuebbe at May 23, 2008 9:11 AM

You realize the dealers are watching you as you are watching them. I did not know about this site till one of the dealers asked me to google search and see what people are writing.

They told me to read about the complaints about the shootings, and also there is a complaint about people hanging inside the deli and smoking in the deli. I also believe there are a couple of other things but my mind is drawing a blank.

The neighborhood is what it is. I have lived on Grand Ave bet Putnam and Gates for close to 11 years. I find the dealers to be very cool people. They all say good morning and what's up. They have never approached me to buy drugs, even though we both know whats going on. I actually feel safer with them outside and the safest when on the block. Yes, it would suck to catch a bullet, but anything is possible here in clinton hill or walking down the street in the city.

I could deal without the shootings, sure it sucks but it is what the neighborhood is. I could also deal without all the gentrification, that too me is the problem with the neighborhood now. Snotty white people moving in and complaining about everything. My personal opinion if you do not like it go back to the city, Kansas or where ever you might be from. After every shooting I make it my business to go up to every little hipster in the neighborhood and tell them about it. I hope it will make them move.

There was a sense of community before this wave of people. Everyone spoke to each other not just your neighbors but random people walking down the street if you made eye contact, you either gave a nod or asked how the person was doing. Now, people on the street have that manhattan attitude and its disgusting. Or maybe its a white thing because when I am sitting on my stoop and someone passes by, I say hi and people are a little freaked out about it, and I am white just like them.

My advice is either you deal with the bullshit that comes with this neighborhood or leave. Its not your neighborhood, I am sorry to say but its the dealers neighborhood who were born and raised here. You are coming into someone else's place and telling them what they should do and how it should change. I really don't think that is the right thing to do if you want to fit into this community. Its a community already and if the new folks keep behaving like they are it will not be a community for much longer.

Just try this, say hi to a stranger when walking down the street here and I promise they will say hi back.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 11:41 AM

11.41's post is one of the most moronic posts I've read on this site. You really don't get it, do you.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 12:45 PM

oh, and i've never EVER seen a "pratt" kid come up to one of these guys to buy. they'd never come down here. just never seen it. it's always older people. regulars. locals.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 1:07 PM

way to edit something that could actually make a difference.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 1:10 PM

11:41 ur right.bk was u much friendlier place back in the 90s.Ill say it again,I HATE MANHATTANITES,YUPPIES, HIPSTERS,AND RICH OUT OF TOWNERS.STAY THE HELL OUT OF MY BOROUGH.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 5:38 PM

12.45 I get that my neighborhood is changing by a bunch of people moving into a community thats not theirs and bitching and complaining about it. Other than that I am not sure what I am suppose to get.
What was were LOX is on Putnam bet Cambridge and Grand ? What use to be on the corner of Gates and St. James ? What you use to take up the block on the corner of Gates and Grand ? Where the fake little brownstones are ? What did the huge yellow laundry -mat use to be ? what was there ? I am just curious how long you have lived here as I would assume a very long time if you are bold enough to use the word "monronic" towards me ?

11.41, you are right the place was better back then, but I would not go as far as to say hate. I am a bit upset that if I were to move I could not afford a place around here. Times change there will always be a new neighborhood to be discovered, and in 5-10 years this will be like park slope and all the drug dealers will be gone, and the rich will end up getting their way, its just the way life is.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 9:12 PM

ok, 8:22, you are doubting that I lived in 425 Grand & that's cool but I have witnessed Jose get paid off by tenants in 425 Grand Ave so that drug dealers can come inside to handle "business". (so do you want factual evidence...names, dates/times, give me a break!) If you want to sugar coat things that's cool. Good Luck trying to get John (aka slum lord) to do anything. That will never happen. I agree that 425 has gotten better in the 8 yrs. that I have lived there. I was there when the homeless woman was living in the bldg, when the guys were openly selling drugs in the lobby, when my neighbor was selling drugs out of the apt. so I know about the changes that were made because I helped make a lot of those changes. The fact remains that there are still some problems in 435 Grand. I also know for a fact that those cameras are a joke inside the buildings, they aren't being monitored, or even working. The 88th no longer does verticals & break-ins are commonplace. The problem with all of the buildings is that everyone is waiting for someone else to do something. Just because the color or the class of the neighborhood changes, doesn't mean the problems disappear!! I agree that this site is for positive exchanges but I think that there is a disconnect between the renters and owners on the block, that has persisted for years. In order the change the present & the future, you have to understand the past & recognize the big picture!

Posted by: guest at May 24, 2008 3:51 AM

well i wont sugar coat it.when i said HATE,i meant it.these new residents care nothing about culture,character,or the people of BK.they wanna see us natives priced out and gone,so they can have these streets all to them self.OVER MY DEAD BODY!thank god i live in coney island,where for right now,i dont have to worry adout displacement.

Posted by: guest at May 24, 2008 4:39 PM

Frankly, this is in a far corner of Clinton Hill, which doesn't even look or feel like the rest of the neighborhood. Just walk around there - it looks and feels like Crown Heights. I'm scared to walk around there in broad daylight. But it's completely different than about 95% of the rest of the nabe, and I'm frankly not at all surprised that something like this would happen around there.

I live on the opposite end of the nabe, and don't feel threatened at all.

Posted by: guest at June 15, 2008 1:52 AM

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May 22, 2008

Cop Fired on in Aftermath of Rally at Grand and Putnam

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