Open House Picks

If the Prospect Heights place is in move-in condition, it would be a reasonable price. If it requires more than cosmetics (new paint, etc), then it starts to get pricey. Would love to see more interior photos to see its condition.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 1:39 PM

Is Park Place 1.7 or 1.799? Broker has both prices on site. I certainly hope the former - since it probably needs work, it can easily be another 300-400 of renovation, and I think pushing 2mil is a big stretch in this market for this area.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 2:15 PM

The Windsor Terrace house is lovely. Warren Lewis has always seemed to price things on the high side to me, but if I had the money and were in the market, I'd check it out.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 2:19 PM

Money pits, every one.
Figure out what it will cost to fix them up and make them livable before you shell out the big bucks.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 2:23 PM

The Park pl house is one of 2 next door to each other that the broker is listing. They are both narrow (17-18 ft). They are not in very good condition and don't have much detail left. They are both full of floor through rentals.

They are also right around the corner from yesterday's HOTD, so all comments about the crime level at that intersection apply to these places too. Then again, these are priced $1M lower.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 2:36 PM

The Windsor Terrace house is a standard type of 2-story house you see all over Brooklyn. Nice details, cute and a perfect size as a one-family house. However here they're pricing it high because it has been split up and has a rental income - but nobody would actually get the rental income because they'd need the whole house for their own use. So I don't get it.

We own a house this same type, size and layout and it's just enough space for the two of us plus one child. That gives us 3BR plus an office at home, formal dining room as well as both a formal living room and a large English basement den/TV room. Which I personally have to have in a house to make all the time and effort and money worth it. People buy a house in order to have more space. NOT just to have the same space you'd get in a condo. You can buy a similar space to this owners duplex, a 3BR condo in a better neighborhood, for $1.2MM. Is the rental alone really worth $225K?

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 2:42 PM

I am looking in Winsdor T right now. I just saw a place on the Warren Lewis site that looks beautiful. It seems to be priced on the low side. It was a 2 bdrm on the park, that looks amazing. My friend saw it a week or two ago when it was above 600 and now its 579. Seems too good to be true? Anyone else seen it yet?

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 2:51 PM

The house on Stratford Road is on the stretch between Ditmas Avenue and Dorchester Road where developers have purchased two homes that they are demolishing in order to build condo's. This might be why they are selling.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 2:56 PM

579 is still way high for 2br in WT. Keep waiting until they chop again.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 3:05 PM

2:51, you can get a Park Slope 2BR coop for $600K. Our neighbors just sold theirs for that on a good block in PS. It won't be prewar and it won't be on the park like the WT coop buildings offer. But that's just to give some perspective on price. I don't think $579K sounds cheap or too good to be true as you say. What is the monthly maintenance? Is it high? How are the building's financials and condition? If all those things are okay you should offer $560K.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 3:07 PM

windsor terrace - walked by this house after seeing the pictures, which looked good, and man, this is in no sense a $1.5 mill. block. Nor is it 1 1/2 blocks from the park. It is, however, 1 1/2 blocks from the dry cleaners whose owner was brutally murdered last week.

I'm sorry but someone needs to give owners in this part of the neighborhood a reality check. We live in WT and while I like it fine, it's no Park Slope, in terms of architecture, convenience, amenities, safety, or general feel. You can go a few blocks further towards Fort Hamilton Parkway and get a house for half the price. If someone wants to pay this price for this house, fine - but I think this far out you are not going to attract that mythical just-sold-my-2BR-on-the-Upper-West-Side buyer.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 3:11 PM

2:51 is clearly a warren lewis broker trying to hijack this post. As 3:05 and 3:07 say, the apt they are hawking is way overpriced. Pretending to be an interested buyer won't make the price reasonable.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 3:13 PM

Windsor Terrace is certainly as safe as Park Slope. It doesn't have the same level of amenities though, that's for sure.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 3:17 PM

Oh wow, that is such a refreshingly honest and truthful post from 3:11 as a resident of WT.

WT is great. But 3:11 says what I've always thought whenever I go there. It's fine. The houses are cute. But it's not going to appeal to certain big spender buyers who want a more flashy house. WT historically was never a wealthy neighborhood. It is a solid, middle class mostly police and civil servant neighborhood, as longtime Brooklyn residents have told me. It's a nice history. But it means it doesn't offer the mansions and the bigger more elegant brownstones.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 3:28 PM

Ha. Well I am not a broker, nor a hijacker, but have been looking in PS/WT for a few months. WT was not my initial first choice but my main Brooklyn attraction is definitely the park. I actually did see the WT apt from Warren Lewis a few weeks ago you are talking about, and have kept my eye on it. It was in great condition, especially the kitchen, with this great wood detailing in the main room. Really charming and unique. I was thinking about viewing it again, but not sure I can get out of my current lease.
I have had zero luck in Park Slope - it's all new, sterile buildings with no charm or old fixer uppers I can't afford to work on. I don't have the time or money. Plus no parking ability. To me 579k seems pretty reasonable. But depends what you are going for.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 3:41 PM

I was looking at the PLG listing. What the heck is a "basement hospitality suite?"

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 4:17 PM

3:13 you think someone is "clearly" the broker? How are you so sure? This is an anonymous internet board? Do you have ESP?

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 4:21 PM

Is it typical to hold an open house on Memorial Day weekend?

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 4:30 PM

Unlike 99% of the posters on this site.

I actually went to an open house pick, Windsor Terrace.

Passed.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 4:37 PM

seems this memorial day most people i know are staying in brooklyn instead of leaving...

guess it's the high gas prices and crappy economy.

there's always the park, the flea, the botanical gardens, the murakami exhibit at the museum...

a staycation. i heard it on another blog or something..

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 4:38 PM

I'd choose WT any day over PS if you can be on or near the park. Mostly because I have a car and can't deal with nightmare parking in the slope.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 4:40 PM

wasn't there a whole article that basically said without ps, there is no wt...at least in the minds of manhattanites moving to bk?

park slope is the ONLY reason people have any interest in windsor terrace....as a cheaper alternative, but are close by for the amenities...

wt is fine, but boring and rather ugly.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 4:45 PM

Funny everyone I know is leaving town, but I don't generalize about the economy based on my personal circle of friends.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 4:47 PM

"3:13 you think someone is "clearly" the broker? How are you so sure? This is an anonymous internet board? Do you have ESP?"

Yes, yes I do. So be careful. I know everything about you. Go put on a tinfoil hat.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 4:52 PM

4:17pm, that means there is an illegal apartment in the basement with kitchen and bath. Which you can use as an in-laws or guest suite or completely gut renovate which is more likely what people would do.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 5:08 PM

Regarding WT vs PS:

yes, the slope has the architecture, the restaurants, and everything else. but as an owner of houses in both neighborhoods, I have to say that windsor terrace has a great deal going for it. for one thing, the lifestyle is easier. the proximity to the park is similar. the cost of housing, rental or purchase is still lower. the parking is easier. the houses don't turn over very often, which is also true of the slope, but much less so than say twenty years ago. to some extent it is quieter. the architecture that we all love in the slope was mostly built for middle class people in the victorian era; it's nice, but it is also true that a row house is a row house - dark in the center for the most part. the restaurants that are so great in park slope are nice, but so many of them are going out of business that at some point you have to wonder whether it's worth the extra expense of being closer to starbux and barnes and noble. park slope is congested, and much more crowded than even ten years ago - while it's nice that one's neighborhood is popular, crowded is crowded. in any case, that stretch of 10th avenue is plain, but pleasant. what is the house there worth? who knows. but neither is a house on 4th st across from the high school worth 3 million dollars.

disclaimer: I am not the broker and have never been the broker....

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 5:25 PM

I agree with what 5:25 says about some locations in Park Slope having no appeal whatsoever and yet being priced as if they're flawless locations.

Reminds me of Beverly Hills where you literally pay for the zip code. It can be an ugly house next to a gas station and the price is based simply on where you can state officially you live.

Bit silly isn't it.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 5:45 PM

I never did understand why one would choose South Slope rather than WT nearer to the Park.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 5:53 PM

Agree that at this point I'd prefer WT to Park Slope. Would definitely check out the school zone, though. Could this be in PS 154? (good elementary).

Anyway, I could see someone stretching a bit to buy this, then converting to one-family down the line. $1.5m sounds high but I'd guess that's what a 1-family home with this layout would go for, so this might appeal to a wider range of potential buyers.

Don't know if WT will ever be "hot," but I'd be more confident in steady appreciation then for an eastern PS neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 6:08 PM

location, location, location

always been the determining factor in real estate.

always will be.

that said, wt is not a BAD location, but it certainly isn't anything terrific either. schools, amenities, architecture, transportation and crime are all worse in wt.

hasn't been a murder in ps since 2005.

last one in wt was last week.

wt is great. but the prices reflect the not as desirable locale.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 6:10 PM

The alleged murderer of the Windsor Terrace dry cleaner lived in Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 6:31 PM

where is windsor terrace?

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 7:39 PM

The crime comments are nuts.. WT is much safer than Park Slope.. the reason that murder got so much press is because it was so unusual.

Of course it's terrible, and it says more about the effect of people being afraid to be the one to say that so-and-so looks suspicious and just call 911. After all, he was there for a few hours casing the place and many people noticed him.

And that part of 10th ave is particularly safe, with all generations out on a nice evening, and kids playing on the street.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 8:09 PM

Sure WT doesn't have the PS brownstones or PS 321. And it is cheaper to live there. But amenities are all relative.

Windsor Terrace has--on a four-block stretch between PPSW (15th Street) and Prospect Avenue--an independent bookstore, a butcher, a bakery that's been in business for more than 7 years and doesn't pretend it's French.

And frankly, WT is a lot more diverse--economically, at least--for now.

Will

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 10:04 PM

Why did I choose the South Slope over WT? For one, it was actually cheaper. The primary zoned schools (esp. PS 107 and PS 10) are better than PS 154. Much better commute to my office in midtown (no need to take the F train). Better access to good restaurants, shops, grocery stores, etc. Both neighborhoods are pretty good in terms of parking and both provide quick access to the park.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 10:42 PM

The PLG place looks like it has a "private drive" that is a ugly curb cut.

Look at the bird's eye view via maps.live.com -- a row full of curb cuts with cars in front yards. no thanks.

Posted by: guest at May 24, 2008 12:27 AM

By your logic 8:15, Windsor Terrace would be prime for murder and robbery.

Posted by: guest at May 24, 2008 12:19 PM

Just saw in today's NYT real estate section that a similar location in WT, also sold by Warren Lewis, sold for 1.1 (about 100K less than ask). So not sure how this compares as a comp...

Posted by: guest at May 24, 2008 1:54 PM

The WT sale on 11th Ave (from the NYT real estate section) had been on the market over a year. I saw it last spring. It was a complete mess. Needed a gut renovation down to the plumbing and floors I believe. No yard. Two car garage in an area with abundant parking (that always seemed like a terrible trade off to me). Not really a comp to this current open house (which I've not seen).

I live in WT and I like it. We feel like the value is much better than South Slope. Amenities? Somewhat lacking, but the proximity to the park more than makes up for it for us and our 2 year old. And I can easily walk to 7th Ave or 5th Ave shops and restaurants.

I have to disagree with those calling WT ugly. It is a varied area and I agree that some of it is not great and some is downright awful. But the section around the 10th Ave house is very nice. The surrounding blocks of 16th, Windsor, Sherman, Howard, Fuller etc are very cute.

Based on what I've seen sell nearby--recent sales on Windsor btw 9th & 10th; Windsor btw 10th & 11th; Fuller St--I think this may not be a huge stretch. Someone will talk them down 5% and buy this. On the other hand the house on Windsor btw 11th and PPSW (#72?) is still on the market for a similar price.

Posted by: guest at May 24, 2008 3:58 PM

wt reminds me of some of the neighborhoods in chicago.

nice, but very modest.

Posted by: guest at May 24, 2008 4:45 PM

Bond at 8:08, you lost my sympathy about WT getting unfair snide comments lately about safety, because in the same breath you suggest everyplace in Brooklyn other than PS or WT is some cesspool of crime. Thus yourself happily bashing other neighborhoods. My question - have you even BEEN to other cities in this country?

L.A. in particular has tons of break-ins and robberies even in the very best neighborhoods. I know of two different women through acquaintenances who were victims of assault in home invasion robberies there, both in *good* neighborhoods in houses priced over a million. If that happened in Brooklyn, people would freak. But it happens all the time in L.A. Also the gang warfare is getting bad again in L.A. after it improved in the last several years for a while. You know where there is a tangle of territorial lines drawn for some of the biggest gangs? Right in Venice and the Westside. Home of multi-million dollar homes and hipster restaurants. Chicago is also worse than here, Atlanta is worse, Miami is worse.

Any neighborhood in Brooklyn is better than those other cities for crime, even the current whipping boy, Clinton Hill. Most New Yorkers know this. Fear Mongering isn't going to work on certain buyers. Some just aren't going to choose a cute but common and overpriced house in WT on a bad subway line with few amenities or potential for amenities to ever arrive (mostly residential with very little commercial space) no matter what people try to get them terrified about.

Posted by: guest at May 25, 2008 10:59 AM

We went today to both WT and Park Place house. WT was cute, but as 10:59 notes, very common and that area of WT felt a bit desolate. It's right next to Prospect Avenue (and a bar) which in mind makes it not such a great location. In this city, even moving 1-2 blocks makes a big difference, and I did not find this spot very appealing. If the spot was better, I'd be more interested in the house.

Park Place, meanwhile, seems like a nightmare. They were only showing garden and half of parlor floor, but you could see already that it is in bad shape, and as someone pointed out, the owner of both this house and the one next door just died so it's an estate sale. Corcoran just lowered the price by 100K but I'm sure they'll need to keep chopping, It's a *HUGE* project for whoever takes it on, a minimum of 600K is my guess, and could be well over, plus all the huge headaches. The block is pretty but not terribly convenient to subway, amenities, etc.

Posted by: guest at May 25, 2008 11:08 PM

Think WT house is overpriced, but just to set record straight--WT is an extraordinarily safe neighborhood and the murder of our dry cleaner was a shocking aberration--the cohesiveness of neighborhood is illustrated by fact that neighbors found her body and helped catch criminal in a little over 48 hours. It is not PS, for better or for worse, but it is safe. If 10th Avenue looked dead to you, remember--Memorial Day weekend. Also--PS 107 an excellent school, but PS 10 is not better than 154.

Posted by: guest at May 27, 2008 2:04 AM

It appears that the price on the WT house on 10th Ave has been lowered to $1.39M. The Warren Lewis website lists the house at $1.39M in the open house section, but still says $1.425M in the details section.

Not sure if the price drop is related to the recent bad press about the murder, or just general lack of interest.

Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 10:15 PM