Open House Picks

The Degraw house is adorable. Nice to see some less expensive Park Slope properties on the market. Will hopefully provide more opportunities for the creative set who made the neighborhood so special in the first place.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:24 PM

I like the Boerum hill house. It seems Cheap in price.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:24 PM

10th St looks interesting... maybe

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:24 PM

Clinton Hill and Boreum Hill homes are overpriced by 500K each.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:27 PM

Didn't brooklyn properties have a house for sale on that block in clinton hill for 1.1M that sat for a long time? It wasn't as done as this place, but it was in good shape and had a lot of detail left. It also had a bullet hole in one of the windows. Not a 2M neighborhood. No way, no how.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:29 PM

$2 Mil to live right across the street from the PJ's??? These Clinton Hill sellers are smoking some goooood sh!t

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:38 PM

you don't get much for your money in Brooklyn do you?
these prices seem outrageous.
a million nine, a million seven?
for what look like ordinary, old, crummy houses -without garages!
New Yorkers are a breed apart.

-a visitor from DC

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:41 PM

Slim pickings as usual.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:44 PM

The Lafayette house is NOT across the street from projects. Please get your facts straight before you start with the insults.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:45 PM

not that outrageous considering how much houses in georgetown go for, 1:41.

similar houses in georgetown go for over a million. most more like 2.

and dc is no new york city, although i do like it.

there are a few neighborhoods in dc which are nice, but much of the city is still pretty criume ridden and dangerous.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:47 PM

Looks as though they've added on a million extra to the price of the Clinton Hill house. Is that because of the Flea nearby?

They need to take it right off for the shooting around the corner, discount.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:50 PM

How is Lafayette Ave. between St. James and Grand "bordering on Fort Greene"? That's the heart of Clinton Hill. Brokers are shameless.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:54 PM

Those are projects to anybody except those living there. Any form of housing program is a project - a government project.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:56 PM

Hate to say it, but I'd rather have one of the smaller Park Slope homes (and less expensive) than a larger one in either Boreum Hill or Clinton Hill.

Both those neighborhoods have had shootings lately which make me uncomfortable if I'm spending 2 million dollars. Well they make me uncomfortable either way, but I don't think either neighborhood is a 2 million dollar neighborhood, personally.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 1:58 PM

Clinton Hill and Boreum Hill homes are each within 2 blocks of major housing projects. I don't get these prices.

I'm going to look at Degraw for sure.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:01 PM

The PJs in BH are much farther than 2 blocks. They're across Atlantic, which makes them feel like a whole different neighborhood. Michelle Williams lives closer to the PJs than this house.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:05 PM

Based on comps, I think the Hoyt St. house is reasonable priced, but a little short in interesting details. I live on Dean St. where houses seem to have hit the $2.0 million threshold. Don't know what the new townhouses on State (between Smith + Hoyt) went for, but more than the $1.78 mm ask at Hoyt St.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:06 PM

we saw degraw a few weeks ago at an OH. it is really nicely done inside, but narrow to the point of feeling claustrophobic. also it's nearly on 4th avenue and the primary view from your front stoop is of an enormous gas station on 4th. also it has a low brick bldg next to it which looks ripe for demolition and sale to a condo builder. we passed.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:10 PM

1:45 -
What are the enormous apartment buildings the Lafayette house is across the street from, if not the PJs?

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:10 PM

10th St may come with long-term renters - does not say "delivered vacant".

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:12 PM

The Lafayete house is across from the coops on Hall Street. T

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:19 PM

Hoyt St seems a bit rich, considering its on the other side of Atlantic.

I'm also not sure about the size of the yard.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:19 PM

2.10 - doesn't matter what they are - they are ugly

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:19 PM

I see your point 2:10 #1, but what exactly do you expect for 1.395 in Park Slope?

You want the house to be perfect, in the perfect location and still be that cheap?

1.3 is about what some 3 bedroom condos are going for in Park Slope.

I understand the house wasn't for you, but you really have some high expections for what 1.395 million will buy you in Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:21 PM

We too saw DeGraw house and while we loved the renovation, we wished they had knocked down the walls in parlor floor to give it more open feeling - I think that's why it feels so narrow. As for proximity to 4th Ave - that worried us too, but some people clearly don't seem to mind that. I wish the owners well, since they clearly did a nice job on this house!

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:24 PM

Please go and buy a overpriced house! The What wants you to commit financial suicide! Throw away your disposable income on mortgage and maintenance. Watch your equity vaporize in the crash. Please The What wants you to do it! No more fighting, I'm on board! Please make a offer at full price and buy one of these beautiful houses!!

The What thanks you.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end.....

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:25 PM

Georgetown is our Upper East Side.
Million-plus houses there are immaculate and they are in an immaculate neighborhood. Most have garages and service alleys in the back. Also, most people in Georgetown do not have to rent out their basements to cover the mortgage.
Houses in a comparable third-rate, outlaying neighborhood in DC go for 250,000 to 500,000 and most have parking.
And jobs in DC pay as much as in NY.
You guys are screwed living here.

-visitor form DC

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:25 PM

We saw Dergaw also and have the same option.
You would need to knock a lot of walls down
(and move the refrigerator!)

Also with young kids, the prospect of cars screaming by down 4th ave is kind unnerving

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:29 PM

2:21, get over it. $1.4 million for a tiny house overlooking a gas station and 4th Avenue, and next door to a likely demolition/construction site, is not a bargain in my book, Park Slope or no Park Slope. No house is perfect and maybe this will look like a great deal to someone - who knows.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:30 PM

Hmmm - 2:25 is making me think it might be time to move to DC - are there deals to be had there? It is true that's it's crazy how much we New Yorkers have to spend on housing relative to our salaries.... I fully expect the avalanche of comments stating that NYC is so much better than DC, etc. - but the reality is that for many people, the prices here are just too crazy to merit whatever advantages the city offers...

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:31 PM

DC is a cesspool.

I wouldn't live there if you paid me double.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:34 PM

I just did a quick search of real estate in DC, and not only are there about 20,000 listings on the market, but they are all expensive and the neighborhoods are, for the most part, similar to Bed Stuy in terms of crime.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:42 PM

notice the "dc visitor" is reading and posting on brownstoner.

anyone here in brooklyn reading www.dupontcircle.com ?

didn't think so.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:44 PM

Went to the first open house at Degraw.

Its no bargin.

The 3rd bedroom is the size of a California closet.
The kitchen is kind weird and the rest feels very narrow

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:46 PM

"2:44 PM"
nice call!
they're a visitor because they moved here and then realized they cant afford to stay.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:48 PM

NYTIMES MAY 16, 2008
The Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr., delivered a guardedly optimistic message to business leaders on Friday, saying that the economy was moving toward a rebound after months of malaise.

“We are still working through housing and capital markets issues, and expect to be doing so for some time,” he said in remarks at a Washington Post conference. “We also expect to see a faster pace of economic growth before the end of the year.”

New-home construction increased 8.2 percent in April, offering signs of life in a deeply troubled sector, the Commerce Department reported on Friday

Housing starts rose to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 1.032 million. Construction of multifamily units surged 36 percent, compared with a 35 percent drop in March, a huge swing — and an average one in recent months, the agency said the agency said in a report..

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:51 PM

Better buy now!!

Looks like things are not the doom and gloom that The What was praying for!

That'll teach you for listening to a middle aged know-nothing broker from Lodi, New Jersey...

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:54 PM

The Hoyt Street house is a small yard due to (1) a smaller lot of only 75 or 80 feet deep, and (2)it has a 8 to 10 foot deep two story extension on the back. I can see the deck from my place, and it looks very nice for the upper duplex. I don't understand how that unit can only have two bedrooms (plus den) -- I would have figured two large bedrooms plus a small bedroom.

And whoever was talking about projects does not know what they are talking about. The only problem with this location are (a) may be too close to Atlantic Avenue for some people who don't like hearing trucks, etc., and (b) the crowd and music at Kili tends to be loud on weekend late nights when they spill outside to smoke or otherwise leave the door open.

Given that there are some piece of junk looking places down Hoyt near Dean asking 2.5, this place is certainly competitively priced or at most very slightly overpriced. (And certainly I don't see any downside to being on the north side of Atlantic -- 20' and over townhouses on State are all selling at or above $2 million unless they are in need of complete renovations. And the new 14 townhouses around the corner on State between Hoyt and Smith, went for over $2.6 or 2.7 each)

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:58 PM

Re: health of housing market - NYC traditionally lags the country in housing problems. Prices have skyrocketed in recent years and are NOT going up right now. I would still be in no rush to buy. Not saying things will crash, nor am I predicting armageddon a la What. But I see sellers making deals and I'm patient enough to wait for the right property at a price that is not insane, as is case of all of today's picks.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 2:58 PM

I almost hate to post this here, but the 10th St. house is by far the best bargain of the bunch. I can't believe it's also one of the cheapest, since the location is far better than any of the other properties. It's the only location in an already established wonderful neighborhood. (I lived near there more than 20 years ago and it was stlll ok, although not as upscale as now). I guess it's different strokes for different folks, but paying huge amounts of money for houses in the other neighborhoods seem like you are betting on the neighborhood improving, not what it is now. That used to be the way to buy a bargain property, but now it seems as if people are already paying prime prices in not so prime neighborhoods.

But, I hope everyone else disagrees, since I'd love to buy the 10th Street house at a discount.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:00 PM

"The Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr., delivered a guardedly optimistic message to business leaders on Friday, saying that the economy was moving toward a rebound after months of malaise."

Ok, is this from a guy this is worth 500 million? Oh I see, he has his finger on the financial pulse of America. I think this guy used to run Goldman Sachs, the company that just reported a 500 million lost this quarter. Ok I see, the good ole truth comes from this Administration. Like the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Wow, how about this one Numb Nuts!

U.S. Economy: Confidence Slumps, Single-Family Home Starts Fall

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aLlZUqsbxyjc&refer=home

U.S. consumer confidence was the weakest this month since Jimmy Carter was president, and single- family home construction fell to a 17-year low in April.

Abstract: After Ronald Reagan got in office interest rates went to 14%. Why you ask? Because Paul Volker became Chaiman of the FED. He pulled out a rocket launcher and blew the asset bubbles to pieces. Inflation at that time was very bad (Like Now) and that was the only way to get things under control.

Guess who is advising Obama? Why it's good old Paul himself. The rumor is if Obama get in the White house he will appoint Volker again. May GOD have mercy on your souls if that happens! Paul Volker is Dr. Death! He makes Dr Kevorkian look like a saint.

Yep, keep dreaming. Keep praying and don't for get to duck.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:15 PM

The challenge with 10th Street is that you have to factor in *a lot* of renovation - most architects/contractors have told me 200/psf is rock bottom, so you're talking at least 500K with this place, which brings the price closer to 2 mil.

Plus, 3 families are hard to get rental income out of, unless you keep it as a 3 family (but then you have a tiny apt for yourself) - so you essentially need to use this as a one-family. Plus, if this comes with existing tenants, there's a huge headache to be dealt with.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:19 PM

10th st. will sell for 1.1 mil. Then your 500000 renovation will make sense.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:23 PM

Awesome you two Numb Nuts!

Battle of the links.........

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:30 PM

Jobs in DC are similarly compensated to jobs in NY???

Did you know that a run of the mill trader makes two or three million? Is that very common in DC?

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:35 PM

Run of the mill traders making 2-3 million are not buying these homes! And sorry, but the vast majority of people I know in Brooklyn do not have salaries like that, at all (they're lucky if they are into the six figures)! Silly propoganda....

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:40 PM

It's obvious that same DC person posted twice, trying to sound like two different people. As if coincidentally we'd suddenly have two different people from DC visiting today.

So great. Now we have desperate brokers from both Lodi NJ and DC trying to convince New Yorkers to buy in their towns instead.

There are going to be so many places for sale in DC after the election if the party in power changes. Won't that be fun to watch. Republicans trying to sell to Democrats. Let the marketing to New Yorkers begin!

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:44 PM

I work in the arts, live in Brooklyn, am 29 and make roughly 150K a year.

Tell me where I can find a job like that in DC.

I don't like DC, but tell me anyway...

Just for fun...

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:45 PM

Everyone in the WORLD wants to own property in NEW YORK CITY. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

Do you people talk to people from other countries at all? Travel, for work, long distance romances, etc??

Every person I come into contact with is FASCINATED with NYC. Of course most don't end up moving here (some out of sheer fright about the expense) but there are very few people in this world, who given the opportunity would not want to live in this great city we call home.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:47 PM

wasn't degraw listed recently as a fsbo? looks so familiar to me

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:48 PM

Wow - they need to do some serious wall knocking down in that degraw house. You simply cannot have a foyer in those narrow houses, knocking down the wall between living room and hall makes the house feel a million times bigger. Luckily it's very easy and cheap to do.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:49 PM

I am going to check out Clinton Hill. It would be close to 2,800,000 in Fort Green and it is quite close

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:54 PM

Why is it, that every time the state of NYC real estate market comes up, the same person posts about how they are in their 20's, work in the arts, and make 150K? Kind of like the posts about the stampede of Upper West siders clamoring for houses in Brooklyn. I'm not denying there are some well paid people in NYC, but there are *plenty* of people with more modest incomes. And frankly, the real money in this city is not looking for bargains in Brooklyn. As for people being fascinated with NYC, that's a silly comment. People are fascinated with lots of places (Paris, Tokyo, the pyramids, the rain forest, whatever) but that does not translate into wanting to live here. I have plenty of friends in the Boston area, for example, who would not move here if you paid them - the school problems alone, much less the high cost of living, don't make it worth it. I'm not trashing NYC - *I* do happen to love it here, but I'm just saying that many people do NOT find it so liveable and to always assume that a huge stampede is going to prop up today's ridiculous prices is just desperation talking.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:55 PM

3:54 - you are an idiot.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 3:58 PM

3:55...Did you ever think that maybe your friends in Boston are just too boring for NYC? People who like NYC are people who have aspirations beyong being stay at home moms.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:01 PM

NYC is expensive and has quality of life issues but we are ones who would make half the income (if any income) doing what we do anywhere else, 3:55.

We types do exist.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:01 PM

I think it is a relevant point and a good response to the person who claims that DC jobs pay comparably to NYC jobs. How is this not clear to you?

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:02 PM

I moved from DC to New York 5 years ago.

Reason:

I was so bored I almost died.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:04 PM

4:01 - no, my friends living in Boston are not boring at all - another typical dismissive post on this thread! Again, I do love NYC, so you don't need to sell me on its merits - but I'm just saying that not everyone loves it as much or feels the sacrifices of living here are worth it. This does not make them boring - it's just a different choice. It's like people who say suburbs are death - well, maybe for some people but not for others. It just irks me how the supposedly inquenchable demand for NYC is somehow used as an excuse to justify rampant price increases - but that cannot work forever. Prices are softening, and there are cycles in NYC real estate (we're heading towards a downward now). The overall phenemonon of NYC being an exciting, fascinating place with a few well-paid people (but the vast majority not as well-paid -- take a look at median incomes) won't change that.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:07 PM

150k ain't gonna buy you a decent brownstone.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:11 PM

The median income in Manhattan is over 85K a year.

Double that of the United States.

If you work in finance, any visual or performing art, fashion, graphic design, architectural concept design, modelling, advertising, publishing, and others, New York City is the place to be.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:12 PM

4:07 what are you talking about? I believe the median income for jobs in manhattan is 100 or more than double the national average

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:14 PM

"150k ain't gonna buy you a decent brownstone."

Nope, but it bought me a great apartment in a brownstone in Park Slope and a vacation home (apt) in Buenos Aires. I feel pretty good about it. I'm only 29, you realize. I didn't expect, nor do I need a browstone at this stage of the game as a single person.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:16 PM

This is a city for the very rich and the very poor.
regular people can have much much better lives elsewhere. that's why everyone abandons NYC every twenty years or so.
If it were not for the illegal immigrants Brooklyn would be a ghost town. No one in their right mind would spend this sort of money to live in such a vulgar and low-lifey place.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:16 PM

You poor folks who must be working in 30K a year jobs have NO CLUE how many people in this city are making a ton of money, do you??

I have friends literally out of college making 200K a year.

You all really need to talk to someone other than your cat once in a while.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:17 PM

"that's why everyone abandons NYC every twenty years or so.
If it were not for the illegal immigrants Brooklyn would be a ghost town."

There was just a study saying how Brooklyn has become not only more affluent, but more college educated and whiter over the past 10 years. Seems to say exactly the opposite of what you are saying. But you know better than the facts, right??

Take a look around you sweety. These homes are ALL millions of dollars!!!

Only low life around here is you, 4:16. Or should I say...DC VISITOR....

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:20 PM

Actually first year analysts at a securities firm make $230,000 first year out of college

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:21 PM

From Wikipedia: "In 2005 the median household income in the wealthiest census tract was $188,697." This was in the **wealthiest** areas - so people claiming that its routine for kids in their 20s to make 150K in the arts, or traders to make 2-3 million, are off the mark. The median household income, if you look citywide, is well under 100K. But even if it's 100K, that's still no way near enough to afford current purchase prices. Yes, incomes is higher here than other parts of the country, but the cost of living is much higher too, largely because of housing.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:22 PM

2:44 -- I don't read dupontcircle.com, but I do read SEATTLEBUBBLE.COM It's an intesting site, and really great to get a non-NYC perspective on housing.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:24 PM

2:42 I did not say household income, I said jobs in manhattan. And 2-3MM for an MD at a securities firm is commonplace.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:25 PM

"I believe the median income for jobs in manhattan is 100 or more than double the national average"

Better do a bit of research before spewing such nonsense.
And learn differences between medians and averages, etc,etc.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:27 PM

"Yes, incomes is higher here than other parts of the country, but the cost of living is much higher too, largely because of housing."

What you don't seem to realize is that NOT EVERYONE is buying a full on victorian brownstone at the age of 25. Ever heard of a little thing called trading up? Yes, cost of living is high, but with 100K a year you can buy a 500K apartment here, which MANY of my friends (including myself) have done. No one but entitled psychopaths would expect to buy a 2 million dollar brownstone as their first home.

And keep in mind that many people buying property these days are also SELLING property they purchased perhaps 10, 20 or even 30 years ago and buying something else much bigger/better with the proceeds.

They call this trading up. You should learn about it and you might be able to get in the game one of these days.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:28 PM

It's obvious to most non-dellusional people that incomes here in NYC are sky high for many people.

The people on this blog stating that is false, are the 45 year olds make 40K a year.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:30 PM

4:16 PM

"I feel pretty good about it. I'm only 29, you realize."

Boy, were you starved for affection as a child!

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:33 PM

"Boy, were you starved for affection as a child!"

Yup, I was actually. Horrible family situation. Thanks for asking. That's why I've worked extra hard to get to the place I'm at now.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:36 PM

i make probably 3 times as much at my job here in nyc, than i would at a similar job in any comparable city.

part of the reason i live here.

notice i said comparable city. which for me, there are very few in these here united states.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:38 PM

Ugh - my husband and I make about 160K combined, so we are not middle-aged people making 40K. Also, we ARE trading up - so are not "bitter renters" - we are "in the game". But housing (and childcare) are by far our biggest expenses - much more than people pay outside the city. Will we stay? Yes. Will we probably pay a pretty penny when we trade up? Yes. But we are not rushing to buy right now when at last, it seems the purchasing power on our cash is getting a bit better, as there are glimmers of sanity in that sellers are realizing they have to make deals. The legions of mega-paid Manhattanites can only go so far in propping up this unsustainable market, and many people have realized that prices need to correct to a historically more sustainable level.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:41 PM

I made 145k when I was 22 -- in job in media, nothing crazy. And that was in 1994. Just saying that 29/150k is not something to really brag about, is it? Even in "the arts"?

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:47 PM

4:27 thanks I am a statistics major and a compensation professional and my figures are correct

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:49 PM

I wasn't bragging. I was informing the person who said that jobs in DC pay as much as they do in NYC.

They don't.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:50 PM

I made ONE BILLION DOLLARS!!!

When I was 9!

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:51 PM

If the prices of the houses really go that far down, the economy will be sooo bad that your purchasing power won't matter. Also, the interest rates will go up. You're going to end up spending the same per month on your housing.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:51 PM

"Actually first year analysts at a securities firm make $230,000 first year out of college"

riiigghhht. too bad none of them are hiring right now... you people have no idea what people on wall street make (yes, i work on wall st). sure, there are an elite few making $2mn+, but the majority are in the 100-300k range. nice pay, but they aren't buying a brooklyn heights brownstone with one bonus. plus, with the lack of near-term job security and the fact that we aren't called "smart money" for nothing, i wouldn't hold your breath.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:53 PM

4:49PM- you're a comp professional who is still in college with a major in statistics?

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:54 PM

4:51 - Give me a break - the run-up of the last few years has resulted in properties costing double what they did 5-7 years ago. For prices to dip 20% is not going to crush the NYC economy - owners in many cases will barely feel the difference, unless they bought in the last 1-2 years.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 4:55 PM

"I made 145k when I was 22 -- in job in media"

Ha, sure!

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:06 PM

4:47 - by "media" do you mean advertising or studio exec type? because there are very few other places in media where that's a starting salary. EVERYONE I know works in the arts in one form or another - film, publishing, tv, etc - and NO ONE made that kind of salary at the beginning - unless they were studio types in CA.

ALSO, DC is awful for many reasons, and NYC is a million times more fun for many many reasons, but I am pretty shocked how many people on this site are such wussies when it comes to crime. The crime in DC is the least of it's worries. The conservative and dull people are a far greater problem - it's filled with paper pushing government bureaucrats and uptight preppies. ((for instance, the DC poster's shock that the houses don't have garages!!@!! perfectly illustrates what an absolute dolt he/she is)

And it's really sad that a rare murder in Clinton Hill or Bedstuy makes people on this site completely dismiss them as places to live. Let me tell you, there was not ONE neighborhood in NYC in the 70s and 80s where there weren't murders now and then. So depressing all these people who would never have touched NYC back then because of the crime and now are the ones driving up prices like crazy. I really would love a giant crime wave to flush these people back out to the suburbs.

by the way I own so am not a bitter renter.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:08 PM

bye bye, kdabrowski! don't let the door hit you.

where are all the people who base their opinions on real life things, instead of from mostly anonymous posters on a real estate blog (99% of which say things to rile you dimwitted people up...)

jeez. you just lost a lot of credibilty as a free thinking adult kdabrow.

maybe you should move to china??

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:08 PM

"We came to Brooklyn because of the people"

So what kind of people was that?

All 2.4 million of them here. I'm curious to know how you will generalize an entire city of people to which you flocked here for...????

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:09 PM

5:07.

You took the bait and went postal.

Works every time.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:14 PM

Kdabrowski - I agree that this gloating about salaries is gross! Yes, tell us where the non-entitled, down to earth people have gone?

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:15 PM

sdrubbins, not to disagree about anything you said, but even on 150k you would be nowhere near being able to buy the DeGraw house.

Thats how silly prices are.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:16 PM

I love how talking about salaries are gross, but talking about 2-3 million dollar brownstones and the thickness of their moldings is not.

You do realize that if many people who live in Brooklyn were to read this blog and see these comments about recessed lighting, 3000 sf being not enough room to raise one child, where do I park my second car, how do I remove paint from my 36 foot parlor doorway, etc.

The entire site is gross, depending on the crowd.

I happen to love it, but please let's not be so prudish.

Anyone buying ANY of the properties on the open house picks make above 300K a year or above.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:19 PM

i'd say 50-70% of the comments on brownstoner are people looking for a reaction from people. they seem to do an excellent job at it. you are the most gullible bunch of people on the internets.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:22 PM

Actually 230k is the exact number that analysts are paid at securities firms, and indeed they are hiring 2,400 this year. And run of the mill MDs do make 2-3MM.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:24 PM

5:14 - of course I took the bait - that's why I come on this blog, to work myself into a froth and release my pent up NY hostility. That's what constitutes a good day on brownstoner.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:25 PM

who are you people who only make 300k a year? You own brownstones? Get a job.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:27 PM

KDABROWSKI and SDRUBBINS:

Brownstoner is not real life. Brownstoner is a blog. Many people on blogs these days (not just this one) say absurd things....partially because it increases traffic and make said blog more more, partially because, as someone said...it's fun to see how gullible people are and well...because it's fun.

If you two have decided that Brooklyn is SO MUCH worse than it was 10 years ago because of what anonymous guest posters on a blog have said in the comments section, then I think you two need to stay clear of the internet. It was not meant to be taken so seriously.

You need to form opinions of your own that are based in reality. Not the fiction that is oftentimes posted here. This is not a news website. This is a for fun website, which talks about insanely expensive 100 year old homes in small section of the largest and craziest city in the United States.

Please wake up.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:29 PM

Biff:

It was not meant to be bait at all. I guess I said 300K because it seems that the way people talk about them here, that million dollar brownstones are first homes for everyone.

No one would dare start out in a studio and work their way up.

I MUST HAVE MY BROWNSTONE AT 25!

;-)

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:32 PM

"230k is the exact number that analysts are paid at securities firms"

All analysts at all securities firms?

"they are hiring 2,400 this year"

exactly 2,400 this year?

Im the fucken easter bunny cause i said I am, wanna egg?

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:33 PM

the 29 year old, 150K a year arts person just got another 50 posts on this thread. i'd say he/she is pretty smart.

and great for this blog.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:34 PM

I guess the diff is I didn't start out at 22. I'd been working full-time starting my junior year in college.

Just saying, is 150k a lot of money for a 29yo person in 2008? I mean, is it a brag-able amount? Doesn't seem like it to me.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:41 PM

if you are making 150K in new york city, do you have any idea how long it's going to take you to save that 250K downpayment?

the way i see my friends spend money, i'd say around the year 2090.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:42 PM

You want to put down $250K and pay $3500 a month to live in a garden apartment in a crappy building, and be responsible for being a landlord? What a nightmare.

For that same $3500, you can rent a gorgeous apartment in Clinton Hill or a very nice one in Cobble Hill, put the $250K in the market, and save up until you can actually afford to buy and live in a nice place. There's no hurry -- these houses are going to cost the same, or less, three years from now.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:44 PM

sdrubbins:

you are forgetting some important details.

you've got 2500 left a month for food, drinks, clothing, heat, hot water, electricity...oh and ALL THE EXPENSES THAT GO ALONG WITH BEING A LANDLORD TO THOSE TWO APARTMENTS PLUS THE UPKEEP UP A 100 YEAR OLD HOUSE!!!!

people like you are why this country is in such a state of credit crisis. if you really think it's almost doable on 150k, you should feel very lucky you make 65k on that IQ.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:45 PM

150,000 is a laughable salary in new york city, even for the arts. At 29 it's embarrasing.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:45 PM

"these houses are going to cost the same, or less, three years from now."

I don't agree.

I'd say maybe another year. Two, tops.

In 3-5 years, we will see a dramatic rise in prices again, since construction has nearly come to a halt. That combined with the influx of new residents will create an unusually low supply of homes in the not too distant future. Once the current inventory and the projects in the works are sold in the next year or two, there is going to be VERY LITTLE on the market.

It's all about supply and demand really.

Not what you think these places are worth monetarily.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:48 PM

545 #2 = dick cheney

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:50 PM

sorry, meant 5:45 # 3!!!

guess that arts guys really did rile you guys up.

comments are insane this late friday afternoon.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:52 PM

Dave:

Good point.

They released some documents of Bush and Cheney's finances today. Was reading over them and apparently (big suprise) Bush had all his money tied up in Treasures and Certificates of Deposit.

He actually LOST money in 2007.

Granted he's got millions, but he lost money. People who think it's better to play the stock market or "save" don't realize that the days of 12% return may very well have come to an end...

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 5:54 PM

You are correct, Dave.

Too bad with these high ranking government officials, they release these huge ranges on the finances. Not even remotely exact figures or even close.

Cheney is worth like between 35 and 100 million or something...

zzzzzzz

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 6:01 PM

BORING.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 6:04 PM

sdrubbins - no-one is going to give you a 1.1 mil mortgage if your salary is 150K, regardless of rental income.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 6:06 PM

Did anyone even LOOK at these houses. They're all lousy-lookin'! Ugh. Either need work, are super narrow, lack of detail...

This is a cruddy line up.

Sorry.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 6:40 PM

Did anyone even LOOK at these houses. They're all lousy-lookin'! Ugh. Either need work, are super narrow, lack of detail...

This is a cruddy line up.

Sorry.

I should say: it makes me feel better about our place!

On that note, prices are crazy now. We bought a while ago and had a windfall as a deposit, but frankly, I don't think we could remotely buy what we have if we were coming in at this point in the game. I feel badly for people who got stuck paying the crazy prices.

Plus, yes, there has been a wave of DBs coming in converting multi-family townhouses to one-families which is depopulating FG.

Oh, well. Despite the fact we would do very well if we sold right now, it does not keep me from feeling badly for those who have all been either priced out or who got stuck at the height of the market. Seems like it has all been such a Ponzi scheme.

What says Biff Champion, Private Eye?

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 6:44 PM

150,00 may not get you 1 million mortgage anymore. times have changed and that is why the prices will come down more. If you have 300,000 in liquid assets and a great Fico 800,000 is doable. But you better have a very steady job history. If you were ever on unemployement forget it

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 7:30 PM

you don't get value for your money any more in brooklyn. I think that is true.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 7:39 PM

a two earning household, each making 150k can still buy a nice house in a prime neighborhood.

judging from this thread, it's easy to see that there is indeed money out there...

to hear about people in their 20's buying half million dollar condos in nyc is impressive to me. not shocked at all though. those are the people who, in 10-20 years will be buying brownstones...

most of my friends (in their 30's) don't have two nickels to rub together.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 7:42 PM

don't wait too long to buy a brownstone, you need strong knees and hips. even a little arthritis can be an affliction if you need to go up two long flights to your bedroom.
If you wish to grow old gracefully, buy an apartment in an elevator building with a large staff.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 7:51 PM

no thanks.

i find those high maintenance charges a total rip off. 1000 bucks a month to have someone take your packages and hold the door?

no way.

i'll be fine on the stairs. parents live in a 3 story suburban house, as did my grandparents.

my next door neighbor here is 87 and lives on the 4th floor walk up.

it takes her a while, but you get used to it, like with anything.

not everyone is a p*ssy.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 7:59 PM

7:42 I am in the mortgage business and I can tell you that right now things are ver bad. The people on this blog a very out of touch with what they would actually qulify for right now and and what rate. I see a lot on nonsense posted here about what rates are on a jumbo and how much money we can lend somebody who is making X amount. The only thing you can still get with ease at a good rate is non jumbo loans which are not enough for a brownstone. It is a supply and demand equation and the pool of people who can now qualify has fallen killing the demand side and that is why the prices will most likely come down more. The other problem is many of the people who are in exotic mortgages and need to refi. dont even qulify anymore and wont be able to afford the morgage that is not an interest only ARM. its a very bad equation

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 8:09 PM

Most older folks who live in 3-story homes in the city or the county live mostly on one floor. it is fine to think you will never grow old. or that those who do are just p*ssies, but the reality of life catches up with everyone even narcissistic real estate bloggers.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 8:11 PM

Back to the houses: The Clinton Hill house is in a fine area, not sure why everyone calls the co-ops "projects" but they aren't, nor are they even close. The tall buildings on Hall Street are filled with a lot of Pratt students Why all the Clinton Hill hating recently? Just wondering....

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 9:21 PM

PARK SLOPE HOUSE TOUR IS THIS SUNDAY, MAY 18

HOUSES INCLUDED INCLUDE BROOKLYN CONSERVATORY AND MONTAUK CLUB.

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 9:59 PM

8.09, I'm interested in what you are saying about refinancing. I got my mortgage through serious broker shenanigans (stated income for slef-employment plus a regular job), and have a pretty high interest rate. My credit history iss brief since I have only lived in the US for 5 years. I know it would prehaps save me a bit of money to refi, but I have a feeling what you are saying would apply to me: my oncome on the books is just not high enough, though i have been paying the mortgage for 18 months now. Stick with the %7.25 or try to whittle it down a bit, do you think...?

Posted by: guest at May 16, 2008 10:48 PM

Come off it, 10:48. It's so obvious you are the same person as 8:09.

Same typos, punctuation, language and grammatical mistakes. At least type differently when you are trying to seem a different person.

Posted by: guest at May 17, 2008 10:45 AM

"If you wish to grow old gracefully, buy an apartment in an elevator building with a large staff."

It's the lack of exercise that makes an elderly person feeble and arthritic.

For many elderly people in our neighborhood, they are staying in their houses with their stairs and garden. Good for them. The other day my husband tried to help one elderly neighbor bring her groceries up her front steps, and she good naturedly insisted "this is the only exercise I get!". I'd rather be independent, hearty and healthy like that when I age, thank you very much. Not some feeble thing sitting all day while people bring me things. Like my father! Who I worry a lot about. His inactivity has aged him a lot over the last few years.

Posted by: guest at May 17, 2008 10:54 AM

10:48
If you have a Jumbo its going to be tough. It depends what you are in right now at that rate. If its fixed it most likely would not pay to change. However if you are in an ARM at that rate it would pay to look into it. The problem would most likely be what you qulify for. Call around and feel it out. I have seen guys trying to refinance and they quilify for about half of what they got on a no doc. WHere I am we wont touch that any longer. If your finances have gotten better you might be surprised at how much better you can do. Has the income gone up? Have you built up more cash reserves? Have you held a steady job? Maybe your credit score has gone up? Call a couple of th big banks and see what they say.

Posted by: guest at May 17, 2008 11:57 AM

Nobody talks about the houses because nobody posting here actually sees or has seen the houses on the HOTD or Open House Picks lists, 4:47.

So it's all totally uninformed useless information.

Posted by: guest at May 17, 2008 5:17 PM

10.45 AM, am not to same person as 8.09, sorry... dyslexic typing after a long day at work and one drink! 11.57, thank you for the advice; rate is fixed for 15 yrs (balloon), my only concern being the income on the books is still a little low . I'm curious, 10.45, why it offends you so that 2 people might converse on this blog, not offending anybody, merely sharing information...?

Posted by: guest at May 17, 2008 9:25 PM

I can hardly wait to sell my apartment in Manhattan to buy me a worn down brownstone just outside a nice neighborhood in BROOKLYN!!!

hahahahahaha......

Posted by: guest at May 17, 2008 9:48 PM

4:47 - I know what you mean, but as has been pointed out before, the state of the NYC real estate market (and hence the economic profiles of potential buyers) is related to these houses. We can talk about the interiors/exteriors of these homes, but really, a giant question is whether they are *worth* the prices they are asking. I, as a potential buyer, know enough by now (I already own, so am not new to this), that many properties, * at the right price * can be attractive, but if they are too expensive, even a gorgeous brownstone may seem kind of absurd. Thus, price - including the state of the market - is very relevant. If a kind of crappy house is going to cost 1.5 mil, but needs 500K of work, then that house is not worth it. If it's going to cost 1 mil, that's a very different story since it gives me a lot more leeway to do the renovation. And no, this is not because I'm someone who looks at my home as an investment to be flipped - but the reality is that most New Yorkers, and most people in general, have the bulk of their assets tied up in their homes, so you do want to be sure that you are not purchasing something at a foolish price!

Posted by: guest at May 17, 2008 10:45 PM

10:45, have you never read this blog before? The debates about the state of the market are the exact same discussions every single day, every single week.

If you find it educational, read through the archives.

Meanwhile the rest of us who have already done our research with people who know what they are talking about and not with a bunch of anonymous sources on the internet, we want to talk about houses. Yes it's valid to talk about whether a specific house on the list is worth the asking price or not. But people here are NOT talking about that, they are talking about the general state of the market over and over and over and over and over and over again. So boring.

Posted by: guest at May 18, 2008 11:37 AM

My house is on the market FSBO. Studio in Park Slope. Bought it a little less than 2 years years ago for 239K.

I put it on the market on Thursday (3 days ago) and by yesterday evening had 3 bids, two of which were over asking price. We signed at 374K. I did zero work to the place in that time.

I'd say the market is still just fine. Fine enough for me, anyway.

Just recently bought a 1 bedroom around the corner...

Posted by: guest at May 18, 2008 12:24 PM

I didn't look at any of this week's picks. But I did see a few last week and so far there is nothing in Brooklyn (at current prices) that would make me leave Manhattan. Brooklyn is all hype!

Posted by: guest at May 18, 2008 2:45 PM

no worries, 2:45.

we've got plenty of douchebags here already...

Posted by: guest at May 18, 2008 3:13 PM

a lot of u people need to be mugged at least once to get a taste of real life in BK.people from manhattan,yuppies,rich out of towners stay the hell out of BK ur not welcome.

Posted by: guest at May 18, 2008 3:35 PM

only time i've been mugged in my 8 years in new york (most spent in brooklyn) was riverside drive and west 85th street.

upper west side, baby.

but maybe you were trying to use reverse psychology, 3:35?

sorry to put a dent in that, if you were...

Posted by: guest at May 18, 2008 4:04 PM

Clinton Hill house is nice but the price needs an adjustment.

Posted by: guest at May 18, 2008 4:55 PM

forget upper west side,404. growing up in east new york,i had to walk around with eyes in the back of my head.that being said,i still miss the way things were in the early 90s.back when new york was new york,not the east caost version of san fran.thaks a lot bloomberg.

Posted by: guest at May 19, 2008 11:30 AM