Open House Picks

The Fort Greene house is awesome...

How is Fort Greene? Is it safe? What are the borders I assume you want ot be east in Fort Greene the most and North or South?

WHere is the best location?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:24 PM

Brownstoner just curious as to how you choose your Open House Picks.
Do you just choose the most ridiculously overpriced listings you can find or properties you think are a good buy for the money?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:25 PM

All absurdly overpriced for this market.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:26 PM

These all seem good priced to me.

Nothing outlandishly overpriced.

Stuff has been selling like hotcakes in the sub 3 million dollar brownstone market....even in this economy.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:28 PM

@ 1:25pm No, they just choose the real estate brokerages that advertise on their site for BIG BUCK$$...Can't bite the hand that feeds, ya!

There are other open houses under 1M!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:28 PM

agree, cannot see anyone paying these prices for these houses right now.

mr B how about looking at some more realistically priced houses, or are there just none? 2 mill + is appealing to only a very limited range of buyers, esp. now.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:29 PM

I think they're just "absurdly overpriced" for YOU, 1:26.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:29 PM

The price on the fort greene house is wrong. Broker's site says ts 1.995. The house looks great and the block is awesome -- its close to Fulton, Dekalb and all subways. Although there is not much of a yeard, I bet it goes for close to asking.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:31 PM

brownstoner seems very disconnected from the present economy

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:32 PM

They all have well done yards/gardens (except for the first, which we can't see). makes a more copmplete package to sell.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:33 PM

Whatever happened to the 6-month look back? Is it because very few houses are actually closing within 6 months anymore?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:34 PM

I'm just curious 1:29...what exactly has changed with all the people who, 6 months ago were looking at 2 million plus properties that you now think they've disappeared or somehow lost all their money??

I'd say 10% of these buyers were Wall Streeters, so fine...maybe they are feeling the pinch, but I doubt it. They are saying bonuses this year will be 11% less than last. That's still a SHITLOAD of money.

People are still working, getting paid, raising families. Manhattan prices are still shooting up and MANY people are looking at Brooklyn even more these days hoping to get more space before the next run up in prices.

Rents are also expected to skyrocket this fall. I don't understand why you think all the sudden things have changed just because CNN says so.

Personally my finances are better than they've been in 3 years. I'm sure there are people struggling, but they really aren't the people spending 2 million on a house. These buyers are selling their 2 bedrooms on the UWS and buying the house in Brooklyn outright, in some cases.

You all seem to have NO IDEA how much money there is out there.

This is BROWNSTONER.COM. We talk about brownstones here. Bronwstones cost a lost of money.

If you want to talk about properties of less than a million, I suggest, akronrealestate.com

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:34 PM

@1:25Pm Brownstoner definitely finds the most rediculously priced lsitings to generate a lot of discussion and no that he has dropped the 6 months follow up to HOTD, there is really no point to this.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:35 PM

Maybe there should be a segment 'Cheap open house picks'

I'm looking in Bed Sty, Sunset Park, Bay Ridgeand Crown Heights and would love to see open house picks in those area for around 800K. There are plenty.

This site is geared for the rich.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:36 PM

These are not overpriced. Get over it. I would not be surprised if Carroll Gardens and Prospect heights properties get multiple bids. And I am not a broker. Quality properties sell. Anyone who can afford 2.2 million is not affected by the economy. These are not 450000 Toll Bros. houses in a surburb of Columbus Ohio nor are they overpriced condos on 4th Ave.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:37 PM

1:28 -- Anyone who says "Stuff has been selling like hotcakes in the sub 3 million dollar brownstone market" is clearly a broker, or otherwise has a stake in propping up the market.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:37 PM

Huh. I am totally confused. I could have sworn that three months ago either this or another similar home on Washington in Clinton Hill was listed on ahrlty.com for 1.2 mil. In fact, we spoke with an AH agent about that listing and were told, "well, the parlor floor is a stunner, but, well, there may be an issue with what the family wants to do ultimately, but if you're seriously interested...." They made mention of "government housing" across the street from that listing. Is this the same place, I wonder?

This might not be the same house, but a half million dollar difference? WTF?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:40 PM

http://realestate.nytimes.com/detail/253-NS804276

if you want the yard w/o the brownstone!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:40 PM

1.34, I don't think 1:29 is saying that money has dissapeared. The point is that we are entering a recession and no one is casually plunking down 3 Mill they way they did 6 months ago. I know people who make over 2 million a year who are tightening their belts in major ways--cuttting back on vacations, cutting back on renovations, etc. Everyone is getting ready for a really rough time ahead. So, those people who really need to move will buy, but those people who were simply thinking about it will wait.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:41 PM

The Ft Greene house has a fascinating floor plan -- the very long extension eats into the rear yard, and the parlor floor is apparently so low there is no "garden floor." Obviously all this was built originally long before the code took effect.

The only cons are that a freestanding wood house must be be a bear to heat in wintertime (plus the termite issues are more pressing), and it is probably too close to AY for some buyers.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:42 PM

you want cheap brownstones in a perfect, primo location, here you go...

http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=975048&rentalperiod=&SearchType=houses&Region=NYC

http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=974976&rentalperiod=&SearchType=houses&Region=NYC

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:42 PM

Hi Terry!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:42 PM

Mr. B the cumberland house is actually listed for 1.995. not that it matters much, since i still can't afford it.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:45 PM

Jobs report out today was MUCH better than expected and the unemployment rate went DOWN to 5.0 from 5.1%. That is not the sign of horrible times.

People have now for 2 YEARS been calling for the end of the world. Finally this week, most top economists have said the recession will not be as bad as expected.

5% unemployment is terrific. Citibank, BofA and others reported huge earnings this week.

Things seem to have possibly turned around.

Anyone who makes 2 million a year and has to tighten their belt means they were overburdended in the first place. And probably really materialistic.

Someone with a 2 million per year income can easily afford a 6 million dollar house. I don't feel bad for them having to tighten their belt one bit.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:46 PM

1:29 here. Thank you 1:41, that is exactly my point. I love these people on here who say those who can afford a $2 mill brownstoner have no need to worry about the economy. There is certainly a handful of such people, but a handful isn't going to support a market full of $2 mill + less-than-fabulous homes in less-than-fabulous neighborhoods at a moment when the RE market looks like it has every chance of tumbling. So people who can wait (and that's most of us), will do so, unless something exceptionally attractive or well-priced comes along. I don't see anything like that on this list.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:51 PM

What's with the moron brokers who think any wood frame house must be a "farm house"? Don't these idiots know that almost all of the cheaper houses originally built near the park, on "the Hill" etc. were wood frame? Anyone who thinks farm houses were magically laid out on a 25x100 grid is a dunce.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:53 PM

1.40 - what a great yard. Adds considerably to the desirability of that place.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:55 PM

1:51...

1:41 said someone MAKING 2 million a year is struggling, not someone BUYING a 2 million dollar house...

BIG difference.

And an absurd and rather disgusting comment.

2 million a year income is top 1% of the country. Such an idiotic thing to say they are struggling.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:55 PM

Hey, Bloggers

How about us looking through Craigslist and listing weekend "open houses"...then posting them on the blogger?! So that way we can have our "own open house picks"...bc these four are bit ridiculous in price...

No disrespect toward the "millionaires" here on the board:-)

Whaddya think?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:01 PM

1:46 the jobs numbers from this morning says that wall street jobs and real estate jobs were added. Only the retards are buying the B aand D numbers today and the smart people are shorting the market before people like you understand it. The gov. numbers are wrong! As far as the prices on the townhouses they are wish prices. Manhattan inventory hit 7000 units today. Do you know what that means? People who make 2 million a year live in Manhattan and when they move its to Grenwich or Greatneck. Maybe Brooklyn Heights but def not most of Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:02 PM

I think you should go start your own blog, 2:01.

You can call it...

ithinkeverythingisoverpricedbecauseivespentthelast30yearsrenting.com

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:04 PM

1:55, yes, I misread that. absolutely agree that my heart is not bleeding for anyone on $2 mill + income. still stand by my original point though. We have been looking to buy ourselves and watching as open house attendance has dwindled and brokers call us all the time because we are "attractive" buyers (ie have nothing to sell ourselves and a reasonable deposit). I think that only on this site does the myth persist that there are currently piles of cash-happy buyers waiting at the ready for that golden opportunity to splash out millions of dollars on a property in brownstone brooklyn. a few such - sure. but why do people on here have such difficulty accepting that the economy does have an impact on people's decisions about buying real estate?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:05 PM

"Manhattan inventory hit 7000 units today. Do you know what that means?"

Yes, it means that it's about 1/4th of what it was pre 2001.

You posted the exact same comment last week, btw. Have it saved so you can post it every week??

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:06 PM

Re: Fort Greene

1:42, I think the original front house is semi-detached. Although you're right, the very long extension would probably be the equivalent of a fully detached house from an energy perspective.

I don't think termites are a particular worry unless there's past evidence. A good inspection will sort that out. Given that the mechanicals are updated (or so says the listing), I'd imagine that the seller has kept the property in good condition and there's no issue.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:06 PM

As the economy falters, MORE people will be interested in Brooklyn. Not less.

Manhattan prices are STILL rising. People are more than ever starting to look at Brooklyn as a cheaper alternative and they know that prices will go back up eventually, as they always do.

I have no idea what houses you are looking at, but we were just OUTBID on a home two weeks ago in Park Slope. And we bid full asking price....

So I guess we are seeing different things than some of you naysayers are...

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:10 PM

Contrary to some opinions, good houses do seem to being going into contract. Over the past few months houses on Adelphi, Dean Street (Hoyt and Nevins), Montgomery Place, 2nd Street, 4th Street, 7th Street, Bergen and Lincoln Place have all gone into contract or sold. Some required price cuts after the brokers and sellers finally faced reality (2nd Street and Mongomery). The Bergen and 4th Street houses accepted offers after one week.

Houses that need exstensive renovations and/or obscenely priced will languish.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:13 PM

Thanks Nokilissa. You just proved my point even further!

Anyone making 2 million per year and having to "tighten their belt" are real scum of the earth wasteful mother f*ckers if you ask me.
Poor darlings...

BTW, to the ignorant person claiming that 7,000 inventory is high, how long have you lived in NYC? a year??

7,000 is a HISTORIC LOW for inventory here in this city of 8.25 million people. Places like Miami (roughly 1/10th the size has 200,000 homes on the market).

Sure, 7,000 is up from 5,000 in 2005, but you really show how ignorant you are when it comes to real estate by saying that number as if it's BAD!!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:14 PM

@ 2:04pm..LOL Your mama!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:17 PM

southslope, those doors are gorgeous.

Is it, in fact, across the street from "government housing", which we understand may be some euphemism for one of the Clinton Hill co-op buildings? Just curious...trying to determine if this is the same place that was listed three months ago for 1.2.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:19 PM

2:13
Yes, I have also noticed that some houses have sold, depsite high prices and scary times. Anyone know for how much these places ending up going for?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:20 PM

to the first retard 2:06 if you think Manhattan inventory was 28,000 in pre 2001 it may not be PC to call you a retard anymore.

to 2:14 had you gone to college you would have been able to read the word Manhattan ahead of the word inventory and been able to realize that is not the whole city. Somebody did not to do very well on reading comp. on the SAT's now did we?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:24 PM

Manhattan 1.6 million people: 7,000 units on market

Las Vegas 1.2 million people: 150,000 units on market

Phoenix 1.7 million people: 300,000 units on market

Miami 800,000 people: 200,000 units on market

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:32 PM

Getting back to the houses themselves -- I think the CG house is the best of the bunch, and I'm one who usually thinks the CG houses are way overpriced. Not that this isn't still high, but not as overpriced as the others. The Prospect Heights house is narrower and the Clinton Hill is very narrow. Ft. Greene has a strange layout.

The drawback to the Sackett St. house is that it's zoned for a very undesirable elementary school (houses a block closer to Court are in a zone that people want to live in.) But the location is otherwise very good.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:34 PM

The houses this week seem like a bargain compared to other stuff I've seen lately. I'll definitely be going to a few of these open houses.

Someone mentioned the 4th Street and Bergen Street houses...we wanted to see those also. You are sure they sold!!??

That was SO FAST!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:40 PM

2:40,

4th Street is in contract and Bergen accepted an offer this week.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:44 PM

People love to rag on the slope stroller moms, but I'm counting a LOT of kids' rooms in that carroll gardens house-- 3 rooms? maybe as many as 4 beds? Is it even legal to have 4 kids anymore? Come on, people, overpopulation is a global problem! Let's keep it to 2...

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:48 PM

Nokilissa...I could not agree with you MORE.
We have completely taken CG out of the running for us for the very same reasons you mention.

There was a time when CG was cheaper than PS, in which case it made sense to look there.

Now that it's no longer cheaper, I can not for the life of me figure out why people would choose that over PS with the park, amazing new shops and restaurants opening every week on 5th and 7th, better schools and MUCH more beautiful architecture in PS.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:50 PM

Well, I'm in the market for a townhouse (and no, not a bitter renter, trading up from a family sized apt) and would not pay these prices. Most people in my situation - well qualified buyers who are not in a huge rush - are adopting a "wait and see" attitude. Other friends of mine who just bought a PS townhouse for in the 1.4's (yes, there are some) are having trouble selling their apartment since they too find many buyers are nervous to commit in this market. I have noticed a palpable shift in just the last few months. I don't think things will crash hard, but I do think sellers have to be more negotiable - are becoming so since several brokers I've talked to have hinted to me that they would accept offers significantly lower than ask - and I'm talking several 100K, not just 50K.

Prices in NYC are at historic highs and yet recent statistics point to stagnation at best, softening a good probability. I get the sense on this list that there are a bunch of owners/brokers who vociferously deny that such a thing is possible and I wonder why they are so frantic sounding.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:52 PM

what house on Bergen street? which realtor?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:53 PM

"I don't think things will crash hard, but I do think sellers have to be more negotiable "

So basically you mean things will go back to normal...?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:55 PM

2:53,

Corcoran, web ID# 1095011. It went fast.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:57 PM

2:52 they are frentic sounding from being bitter about buying at the peak 2005-2007. Most of the bagholders thought real estate could only go one way and that they were going to be the Donald Trump of Brooklyn. They paid any price and used leverage and they are about to have an epiphany!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:58 PM

Some of you people act as if real estate as we know it began in 2000.

Since the dawn of time, houses were negotiable, some properties languished, others were snatched up in a heartbeat, some were overpriced, some not so much.

You make it seem like you've JUST DISCOVERED real estate.

What is happening now is a return to more typical real estate patterns. That's all.

Stop being to irrational and stupid.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 2:59 PM

"2:52 they are frentic sounding from being bitter about buying at the peak 2005-2007."

We bought our 2 bedroom in Prime Park Slope in very late 2006 for 650K.

We suddenly had an addition to the family which was a bit unexpected and sold our place 2 months ago because we found a bigger 3 bedroom place we liked (also in PS).

We sold our place for 870K.

Can you please tell me how this asserts your theory about the alledged peak??

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:02 PM

The only bitter sounding people on this blog are those who just saw every person around them who bought something make gobs and gobs of money.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:06 PM

"Corcoran, web ID# 1095011. It went fast."

By "fast" are you referring to the amount of time since this place was first put on the market several months ago or are you referrring it to time since it was most recently put on the market? I saw this place in late '07 so I would say it is about time it sold. Just because a buyer/broker pulls the listing and then relists it doesn't restart the clock.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:08 PM

3:02 - actually, I think NOW is the peak, and they sound frantic that the peak has at last been reached. The prices this spring feel to me like the last gasp of an unprecedented run-up. Now, I agree that there is enough cash out there to keep the market from crashing for the time being, and it's anyone's guess what will happen a year from now. But I have not talked to anyone - including aggressive brokers - who are predicting continued galloping prices like we've seen the last few years. The more likely predictions are for stabilization at best, and softening of prices especially among "non-prime" properties - and I think all of this weeks open house picks qualify as non-prime since the locations are not fabulous.

Sackett, by the way is a nice house, but where are the comps? We had an accepted offer on the very next block over last year for 1.3 and we looked at comps very closely. Granted the house we were buying was 3 stories, not 4, and not quite as fancy, but it was in great shape, had nice detail and was wide with a great garden. We ultimately rejected it due to crappy school, but saw several others come on market on same block, all within same vicinity of prices, and some lingered.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:12 PM

3:08...does it really matter now that it's sold??

Are you really THAT desperate to make an invalid point?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:14 PM

Re: "fast" selling - funny, I've noticed a number of places that have attempted this technique of 're-listing" to make it seem they are not lingering on the market. There's a brownstone on 5th St (6/7 Ave) that has been just sitting on market at 2.2 since last summer - it's huge and arguably "prime" PS but no one is going near that price. Then there's that pitiful brownstone on President Street (4/5) for 1.4 which has been all over Craigs List for I think a year now, and they have just attempted a "just reduced" even though they had to drop it from 1.9 to 1.4 eons ago. There's also a brownstone on 4th Street bet 5/6 for 2.1 that is languishing (former pick on this list, by the way). These are all in "prime" areas and yet, no one is biting, at least not anywhere near the asking price. So how do the bulls explain that?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:18 PM

stupid comments like this make me wonder if people really know anything about the neighborhoods..
"Not much in the way of shopping or great restaurants and cafes, no interesting multicultural vibe, no beautiful parks, a fairly long commute into the City, the Gowanus canal close by, stretches of industrial stuff, not much in the way of subways..."
Last I looked Sackett st house is short walk to subway - and serveral stops closer to Manhattan than much of Park slope that uses F train. And really is not even that far of a walk to 5th Avenue restaurants from there - if SMith st/Court St don't offer enough 'cafes' for you and your lazy ass lifestyle.
Plenty of Park Slope is about the same architecturally - unless you are near the very pricey part by the park - which is way above this price range.
And if you think multicultural 'vibe' (that expression makes be want to vomit) is what people move to PS or CG for - you must be on LSD.
Multicultural is Flatbush and Elmhurst.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:19 PM

"3:02 - actually, I think NOW is the peak,"

So first it was 2005.

The it was 2006.

Then absolutely it was 2007.

NOW it's 2008??

Do you see how absurd this is??

In those years, some people in this city have made hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not MILLIONS!!!

You people are so dumb.

The PEAK in one of the greatest cities in the world has not yet arrived. It may go down for a couple years or more likely stay about flat, but I assure you that in 3-5 years you will wonder AGAIN how you were priced out.

It doesn't matter anymore. We have banked over 1.4 million dollars from the sale of real estate purchases in the last 7 years.

Every time you pay your landlord your rent check, think about it as making someone else richer.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:19 PM

"So how do the bulls explain that?"

Seen two of the three houses you mention and they are small and overpriced. Has nothing to do with the market, since MANY other more expensive homes have been selling. Have you seen the prices they are getting for the Vermeil Condos? 2.1 million!

You can't just pick out random houses that haven't sold and make general statements about the market.

Well...you can...it just makes you sound like a total moron.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:22 PM

"Plenty of Park Slope is about the same architecturally"

This is a joke, right??

Almost every house in CG has had its cornice torn off. Most houses are just big brown boxes.

And Smith has become a joke of a retail strip. Everything cool has opened a 2nd outpost on 5th anyway. And 5th and 7th are about 20 times the size of Smith.

And a lot of Park Slope...especially the northern part has MUCH better train access with the 2/3 train and Q.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:24 PM

"3:08...does it really matter now that it's sold??

Are you really THAT desperate to make an invalid point?"

Nope I'm not desperate. In fact I'm not trying to make any "point", just correcting the person who claims the Bergen house sold quickly. It didn't.

I don't really care one way or the other. I guess having someone gushing about how amazing it was a place sold SO FAST just annoyed me a bit when I knew the place actually had been on the market on and off for months. But hey, who cares about the details?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:28 PM

3:02 Park Slope has outperformed most of Brooklyn(it is the best area). Most other areas are flat.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:29 PM

"if SMith st/Court St don't offer enough 'cafes' for you and your lazy ass lifestyle."

maybe they meant good cafes...

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:29 PM

"But hey, who cares about the details?"

The details are that it is now sold. No longer for sale. Everything else is useless info at this point.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:31 PM

Well, here's somewhere we can agree:

"The PEAK in one of the greatest cities in the world has not yet arrived. It may go down for a couple years or more likely stay about flat, but I assure you that in 3-5 years you will wonder AGAIN how you were priced out."

And your comment about how it may "go down for a couple of year or more likely stay flat" is exactly why I'm taking my time. I'm not priced out thank you very much - I've pocketed the gains from my own recent sale (this spring) and am renting in my school district of choice, with a lot of cash at the ready to buy our next property (a house). I also agree that, in the long run, we will not suffer since sure, in 10-20 years the market will be even higher than it is now, and quite possibly in 5 years it will be higher. But real estate markets are cyclical - any course in Econ 101 will tell you that - and economic conditions right now all point to a downturn in this cycle. It might be a short downturn (1-2 years) or longer (3-5, as it was in the last downturn in late 80s-early 90s) but it does not seem stupid to rent for a short while in this market. That does not mean trying to "time the market" - if you see something you love you can afford, go ahead and buy it even if the price is high for the market. But this is not a market where I would "settle" for a non-prime property at a prime price, which is the case for all of these homes.

Given the likely downturn, many people would rather wait 6 months to a year to see if they can save tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars (depending on the property)...

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:31 PM

"Given the likely downturn, many people would rather wait 6 months to a year to see if they can save tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars"

Yep, this is true, but you also realize that people said 2005 was the peak and for the past 3 years prices rose steadily in the double digits in Manhattan. You are taking a risk by waiting because no one has a crystal ball.

Wait all you like...but the prime properties are going fast either way. Take your time, but you can't COUNT on prices going down. You could wake up and they've gone up another 5%, which doesn't seem like a lot given the past run ups of 20% in 2002 and other years, but 5% on a 2 million dollar property is a lot of money.

It's fine to say you want to wait because you think prices will go down, but lots of people also said not to buy in 2001 because they thought everyone wanted to leave the city after 2001.

We now see that people really have NO IDEA what will happen with the real estate market.

Don't try to time it. Just find something you like and buy it.

Or not.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:38 PM

The risk takers are the ones who make the money in the end. Imagine how those people who bought in these neighborhoods in the 60's and 70's felt when the areas were crime ridden and red-lined. They took a huge risk and invested because they loved the area. They reaped the reward as many who buy today will in 20 years when NYC's population explodes because the rest of the suburban world has finally woken up from their bubbles and decided that paying $10 for a gallon of gas and $700 a month to heat their 4000 sf mcmansion no longer works for them. Not just NYC, every city in America will see an influx of people in the coming decades as the country moves towards a more urban economy. It will soon be a necessity if we want to keep the earth alive.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:51 PM

You gotta pay to play!!!!

Cliche, but it's true.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:54 PM

I don't know how posters like 2:08 handle things like transactions costs. I know when I buy and sell a stock I pay about $25 in transactions costs. I've never sold a propery in NYC, but when I purchased my house in 2003 for $1.0 million my closing costs were about $40-$50K (mortgage tax, mansion tax, title insurance etc.) When I sell I know I'll be subject to a transfer tax and likely will need to pay a broker a 5% commsssion. You need 10%-15% of price appreciation before you can make those transaction costs back.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 3:57 PM

I've always sold FSBO. No need for a broker if you have half a brain.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:05 PM

3:57 and inflation is also a factor. some times people dont like to look at what they dont want to see.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:09 PM

If you paid that much for closing costs you got RIPPED OFF!

Ours were about 20K on a million dollar property.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:09 PM

3.19 - every single thing that YOU buy also makes someone else richer.

dingbat.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:10 PM

I am an idiot and read brownstoner and think I know the market by a bunch of pictures and bad broker descriptions. I am an idiot.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:11 PM

3:54: "The commute to midtown is fine on the F but it isn't all that easy to midtown." I don't get your comment..it's fine but it's not easy? I take the F train to work everyday (Carroll St station) and have been for decades. I boarded the train this morning at 7:45 am, got off at Rock Center (where I work) at 8:10 am. I agree with the rest of your post.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:12 PM

On the next block from the Park Place house there is another Corcoran listing for sale for $1,799,000. It looks like it needs work but has a lot of the details. Has anyone seen it?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:12 PM

Seems no matter what the subject, everyone wants to talk about Park Slope more than any other neighborhood. Even the non Park Slopers...

Interesting...no wonder they are shooting that new show there.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:18 PM

4:09, that's fascinating, but 3:57 specifically said he bought a HOUSE with a MORTGAGE at ONE MILLION DOLLARS. All of those factors involve known fee rates (mansion tax, mortgage recording tax) or unavoidable, standarized fees (title insurance). You didn't volunteer what you bought but it's a safe bet not similar to 3:57.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:21 PM

3:38 - the difference between now and 2005, 2006, 2007 is economic fundamentals - the kind of volatility/uncertainty that exists in the broader financial markets now is very different than in the past few years. As for 2001, that was a freak occurrence. Prices dipped briefly (I know, I bought then) but NYC was steered so well by Bloomberg that the city became tremendously attractive. Now, there is also the uncertainty of who will succeed Bloomberg (and believe me, I wish he could serve another term!) Of course, no one has a crystal ball, but everything always has an element of risk - whether it's buying high, not selling high, etc. Ultimately, each person has to do what's right for them. I chose to sell very recently and rent (mainly due to school needs) but truly, there is a shift these days in the climate of many buyers that even brokers are conceding. I am actively looking and hope to plough back my sale profits into a home in the next year or so (and not "wait by the sidelines" endlessly) but I just don't buy the arguments made on this list sometimes that the market can only go up endlessly. I also understand how those hoping for a complete crash are unlikely to be right. But really, a 10-20% decline would be a drop in the bucket compared to recent gains, but would make a very real difference in the pocketbooks of many prospective buyers, and I think that's what is giving so many buyers pause these days.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:24 PM

I bought my 2 million dollar brownstone with the cash I made from my 2 bedroom on 85th and West End.

And still had enough to buy a new wardrobe, a Prius and a trip to Dubai with the rest.

Lovemylife.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:26 PM

4.09 - 20K down the drain, just threw it away. Plus all that interest you pay just for the honor of borrowing money. All that money down the drain.

Jeeze.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:26 PM

Just shuddup and pay your property taxes.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:28 PM

As opposed to the 20K plus you pour down the drain in rent EVERY YEAR, 4:26?

You take the prize for most moronic post on the thread today.

Congrats!!!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:28 PM

It's May 2, 4:26.

RENT WAS DUE YESTERRDAY!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:31 PM

Dumbo condo sets new Brooklyn record

Clock Tower penthouse
By Sarah Ryley

A $7 million-plus sale of a 14th-floor penthouse at Dumbo's Clock Tower Condominium, a former corrugated cardboard factory built in 1915, has broken Brooklyn's most expensive condo record.

The new record comes just two months after Elizabeth Stribling, founder of Stribling & Associates, set the record by buying a $6.6 million penthouse apartment at One Brooklyn Bridge Park, which she is marketing.

Karen Heyman, senior vice president of Sotheby's International Realty's Downtown Office, told The Real Deal that two West Coast men working in the financial industry bought the Clock Tower penthouse. The apartment had listed for $7.8 million, but Heyman could only confirm that the price topped $7 million.

The 3,200 square-foot, three-bedroom, two-and-a-half-bathroom apartment had been on the market since August 2006, when it listed with Sotheby's for $10.5 million. Heyman said the former owners, Bliss Spa founders Thierry Boue and Marcia Kilgore, weren't "really particularly motivated at that time to sell" and rented the penthouse out for a year while the price was cut repeatedly.

Heyman said the buyers plan to use the penthouse -- last renovated at least seven years ago -- as a pied-a-terre, and would begin their own renovations before moving in.

"They have a place here [in Manhattan] but they absolutely love Dumbo," said Heyman.

Developer David Walentas, known for turning Dumbo into a residential neighborhood, lives in the 15th floor penthouse. Walentas bought the building for just $6 a square foot in 1981.

Heyman said the 16th floor, with views of the city behind a glass-faced clock, is under renovation and "will definitely be the most expensive unit in Brooklyn" when sold. It is expected to sell for up to $30 million.

Hayman said she just sold a ninth-floor condo for $3.99 million, the second-highest sale in the building, without listing it. She said the buyer is a woman "who loves Dumbo and wants to be close to her grandchildren."

Another condo is in contract for $2.87 million, to a German looking for a pied-a-terre.

A three-bedroom, three-bathroom condo on the ninth floor that sold for $3.16 million in March 2007 is back on the market for $4.3 million.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:36 PM

4:26 - can't believe you voluntarily went to dubai. sad.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:36 PM

Yup, believe it, 4:36. Fascinating trip, incredible people.

Every year I pick a new place I've never been and go for a month.

How was Ocean City, New Jersey this year?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:40 PM

"I'm sure it's goes without saying that you picked up two gorgeous models last night and drove them back to your place in your Prius for a night of insanely wild and mind blowing sex?"

Nope. I have a girlfriend. We're pretty monogomous. The sex is good though. Mind blowing....? Maybe every 3rd time or so...
Just wish she'd get into the a**play a little more...

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:43 PM

4:36 - I don't see the point of that article. The mega-rich are in a difference universe than the majority of people who are looking for homes in Brooklyn. People I know ARE worried about the downturn - people, for example, who are having problems selling their apt to trade up to a house. For many people, this is stressful, but not for the tiny fraction that are discussed in the article you post. I don't think such an article adds useful info to this list since they are not representative of most buyers. Also, it seems that these threads keep devolving into arguments about the state of the market (which is uncertain at best!), but maybe we should try to stick to the properties, which do seem very aggressively priced for this market. Where are comps?? And bragging about going to Dubai is weird.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:45 PM

Speaking of hot, did anyone else happen to see Catherine Zeta Jones yesterday in Park Slope filming that movie on St. John's??

One word:

DAAAAAMN!!!!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:46 PM

As opposed to your waffling back and forth between being gay and straight on this blog, Biff??

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:48 PM

monogomy is so 2007.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:52 PM

Thank you 4:21 for comments on transaction costs which are a product of the purchase price and mortgage amount. As a recall, the mortgage tax was about 2%, the mansion tax was about 1% and title insurance was about 1% so those items total about 4% on a $1 mm purchase. That's going to be standard unless you're not financing your purchase and can avoid the mortgage tax. My point in making the post was that it's hard to trade in and out of NYC real estate because the transaction costs are so high. I bought a vacation house somehwere else (for about $75K) and my closing costs were less than $500.

As an aside, are there 2 more ridiculous taxes than the mortgage recording tax and the mansion tax? No matter what, it should cost the same to record a mortgage. With regards to the mansion tax, it was passed over 20 years ago and not indexed for inflation. I think $1 million is the average apartment price in Manhattan now.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 4:57 PM

1.7 million is the new average apartment price in Manhattan, 4:57.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:01 PM

So 40K in closing costs.

Not 50K.

To some people, 10K is still lot of money to just throw in there as chump change/exaggeration.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:04 PM

to the person that said:

This is BROWNSTONER.COM. We talk about brownstones here. Bronwstones cost a lost of money.

You are an idiot. If only brownstones were discussed here - 3/4 of the postings wouldn't exist. All those developement posts, They're not brownstones.

2 of the 4 listings on this tread are not brownstones.

Not all brownstones are expensive. There are brownstones in less affluent neighborhoods,that I'm sure many would be interested in.

You're an idiot.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:07 PM

Nokilissa is my new favorite bstoner commenter.

Love you.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:07 PM

The woodframe house in fort greene is the pick of this crop. nice wide lot, nice rehab, good location. they will probably get close to ask. fort greene is nice. nicer than clinton hill, not as nice as carroll gardens, walking around clint hill last weekend after stopping in at the flea, there are still boarded up houses, ugly painted stoops etc. has a way to go. i think the prices escalated a wee bit prematurely but there is a lot of money in NY and it is in the hands of a lot of youngish people. i have no doubt that the prices in the nice neighborhoods will keep rising. at least until the next generational shift away from the city happens, many years from now.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:13 PM

There is an underlying current on brownstoner of an "inevitable crash" in nyc housing and the economy in general. No doubt gas prices are high and there is some inflation concern but as I have been posting over the past year, a recession is not a certainty no matter how many pundits want to say it is in the NYTimes.
Some objective numbers came out this week for people to think over:
1. 1st quarter GDP: POSITIVE .6%, that means the economy grew.
2. average wages: grew according to bloomberg radio this morning.
3. unemployment numbers came down this past month to 5% (still trolling historically low levels)
4. unemployment claims came in lower than expected last month.
5.Stock market is still gaining ground.

Now, before you militant leftys go all James Carville on me, keep in mind that these are objective numbers ( I didn't make them up). keep in mind that I still understand that there is an economic slowdown occurring and that housing prices may come down a bit more.
Just don't expect the houses to be given away or that we are headed for doomsday or that "it's over, a new depression is here".
I'm just posting some sobering information for those all to eager to overdose on the pessimism flavored kool-aid.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:21 PM

Went to Oman, Jordan for 5 days while in Dubai, and took a week in Beirut as well as two weekend trips...one to the Indian Coast and another to Abu Dhabi.

We had a terrific time. Stayed at the Burj Dubai. I highly recommend it.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:27 PM

5:21, your post is the most intelligent on this site. I'm afraid, however that your objective information will fall on many deaf ears. The negativity, bitterness and jealousy on here seems to be unparalleled. Even at the expense of not listening to any real rational data.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:29 PM

sorry...meant burj al arab, not burj dubai.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:31 PM

the slowdown is affecting a large segment of the population. but it is the segment that would not be able to afford a townhouse even in the best of times. we are living in fairly prospeous times for the folks with education and skills. salaries and bonuses are very very strong. and if you have money, the government will take it away from you unless you buy a primary residence. that is something that can appreicate and appreciate and you don't have to worry about paying capital gains, ever, even if you sell as long as you buy an equal or better house. the folks w/out skills are the ones really being left behind. the income chasm is so wide now. no wonder many posters cannot wrap their brains around most of these asking prices.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:32 PM

An example of how the pessimists totally miss the point:

In 2008, Wall Street bonuses are expected to be 11% less than in 2007. Ok, that sounds bad, right??

So someone who last year received a 1 million dollar bonus, this year will still receive almost 900,000 dollars. AS A BONUS!

See why it's not as bad as you keep saying??

The people at the top, as 5:32 is saying are still doing just fine. To be honest, some of my wealthier friends say they are doing better financially than they ever have before.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, but this country is fast becoming a have and have nots situation.

And nearly everyone buying these homes are part of the haves.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:38 PM

4.31, pay your property taxes. And your interest for your mortgage. And your home owner's insurance. And your maintenance costs. Come on hurry up, you can't stall forever. By the way, i'm suing you for not clearing your sidewalk last winter. get a move on.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:38 PM

5:21 - a measured response, and I agree that predicting a dramatic crash is probably off the mark. But your post only tells part of the story. The news has also reported that, despite economic news that has had some slight positive aspects, most economists agree that we are headed towards recession and indeed that housing prices will go down further, and that NYC will at last feel some pain (not catastrophic, but at least not the bubble-like immunity of late). I think the "bitterness" people talk about comes from people who understandably are shocked by the price increases of recent years. Even I'm shocked, and I benefited from it (my property has more than doubled) but since I'm trading up, I really understand the frustration of living in a city where the inequitable distribution of wealth shows itself so nakedly. But all that said, I do think there are many measured responses on the "other side" - that is, people like me who are not waiting for houses to be "given away" but are pointing out that there are buyers who are watching carefully to snap up a property not at a give-away price, but something more reasonable than these picks for example. I'm happy to pay 1.6-1.7 for a smallish (2000-2500 sf) house in a good area in good condition (read: no major renovations needed, or else are factored into this price), which I think is hardly a "give-away" price but is one that some owners don't want to list their properties at. Though I have recently been seeing some place in the 1.8-2mil range where brokers have implied that indeed we could get the house for much less...

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:40 PM

"4.31, pay your property taxes. And your interest for your mortgage. And your home owner's insurance. And your maintenance costs."

UHHH...not a real problem since i paid cash for my brownstone.

i pay less in those things you mention per month than you probably do to rent a studio in plg.

i own a 2 plus million dollar home outright.

you are comparing that to you renting how exactly???

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:42 PM

Noklissa see 3:08. I have to back them up because I remember seeing this place last fall too.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:43 PM

I read and heard today on multiple sources that the leading economists are now saying that the economy is not going to be as bad as they once thought. They say the credit markets have stabilized that we'll see what happens with the rebate checks before anything can really be determined beyond that.

Our boss just gave us all raises this week. Small ones, but she said she thought it was the best way to do her part to help the economy.

I'm thrilled.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:49 PM

if all you all want a dose of reality you should listen to what Bloomberg said this morning in regards to the budget and preparing for budgets for the next 3 years. Talk about a guy who can tell what is going to happen on wall street and is honest. This blog is still in denial. WHat happens when your ARM's start to expire and you cant refin.?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:52 PM

Ugh, I find this list depressing - the way some folks brag outright about their wealth is gross. I'm not poor by any stretch and are in the market for a townhouse which we can afford - but the attitude on here is enough to make me want to leave the city. It's as if all anyone cares about is money. It's just sad.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:53 PM

Most of this "recession" has been spun by the media.

As was stated above, the economy still grew last quarter, albeit at a snails pace.

We are NOT in a recession (yet) and are certainly no where near a depression as some on here have said.

5% unemployment?? That's INCREDIBLY low!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:54 PM

Yeah, Nokilisa, will you buy one of the places on Park in PH and be my neighbor. We can walk to the Q on flatbush for better train service and vanderbilt has plenty but 5th and 7th are really close.

It's cheaper and better than CG. I just don't get that whole area either. It's a cute with shops/cafes and I do like some of the federal buildings, but I would never do the F train when the N and Q are so much better.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:56 PM

Who keeps calling this thing a list?

What the hell.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 5:56 PM

"the way some folks brag outright about their wealth is gross. I'm not poor by any stretch and are in the market for a townhouse which we can afford"

ummm...pot...kettle....black....

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:06 PM

I like the House on Sackett st The interior looks Very nice and the outside looks real Pretty. I dont know but looks like that will sell.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:06 PM

5.42 - get and fix that leaky roof, I'm going out all night partying.

BTW, thanks for paying for the Public Schools, very civic-minded of you.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:08 PM

i'll take the sackett st. house at full ask if the owner will pick it up and move it to park slope for me....

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:08 PM

I LOVE Prospect Heights!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:10 PM

6:08 is a whack job.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:11 PM

Guido Funeral Home is on the other side of CG
Agreed, perfect name

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:21 PM

That Fort Greene house is handsome. Why do wooden houses always seem more bright and airy than brownstones?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:21 PM

"Karen Heyman, senior vice president of Sotheby's International Realty's Downtown Office, told The Real Deal that two West Coast men working in the financial industry bought the Clock Tower penthouse."

Jerri Blank and...?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:22 PM

Look at this post I found on bitterrenter.com ....

Rents will skyrocket in the next year as landlords pass on all the increases in fuel and maintenance costs to their tennants leaving the owners - who were smart enough and had the balls to buy - no worse off despite rising costs.

Glad you waited to see prices decline?

Bitterrenter.com

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:27 PM

5:40,
A reasoned rebuttal:
I appreciate your perspective on how expensive house prices are in the city, however there is a major flaw in your reasoning. You assume that everyone should be able to afford a brownstone. they can't and shouldn't expect to,in our capitalist society. Brownstones are a sort of commodity as far as housing stock, subject to supply and demand. What we all should assume as Americans is that we have the opportunity to own our own home, which more americans do than at any other time in history. A simple glance through Friday's Daily News will reveal that low and behold, there are houses and condos for all price ranges, albeit not necessarily in Brooklyn Heights. There are hot selling condos in East New York, there are waterfront multifamily homes for under 600K in the Rockaways, there are affordable subsidized housing units throughout the city built under developer tax abatements. There are 300k houses in Canarsie, Brooklyn, there are 200K condos in many parts of Queens and the list goes on. I never assumed I had a right to own a nice townhouse in Brooklyn, I simply took the chance on buying a run down brownstone with good bones that was cheap at the time because it was next to a crack house. Unlike many whiners who like to post here because they would rather take the fast track to the good life, whatever that means, by demanding wealth redistribution and citing class warfare. Opportunity is still there, the day that's gone, sign me up for the revolution.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:27 PM

1:37 I agree If people don't think these Homes will sell Then they should start looking in New Jersey Or Better yet try North Carolina , I hear it's got a Lot of Culture Like Wal Mart and Many Big Lot stores you guys can Pick up Paintings in. Folks this Is The financial Capital of the World In a good Economy Or bad.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:28 PM

rents never skyrocket, they are very stable and increase only very slowly each year, look at the stats. housing prices, on the other hand, are all over the place. Do you really think a brownstone is worth 2 million bucks? thats how much it costs sure, but is it worth that?

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:40 PM

2:34, I'm curious, why do you think the CG house is in a "very good" location? We have all but discounted CG from our search because it does NOT appear to be a good location at all.

Not much in the way of shopping or great restaurants and cafes, no interesting multicultural vibe, no beautiful parks, a fairly long commute into the City, the Gowanus canal close by, stretches of industrial stuff, not much in the way of subways...

Are we missing something?

This is intended in good faith btw. I hope no offense is taken, but we genuinely don't get the CG thing. Can someone who loves it enlighten us?

Posted by: Nokilissa at May 2, 2008 2:44 PM
This is the stupidist thing i have heard of Yet. No Resturants to eat in? Frankies 457, Grocery, Po, Patios. Ohh wait all the Places the nest Block over in Cobble Hill are those to far to walk to? What about Lucali? wait the F train is far It takes me 23 min exactly to 57 street. You want more? try moving to Manhattan you foolish person you.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:48 PM

don't believe the papers or the television news, they are just selling blood, tragedy, doom, and gloom as always.
the reality is that we are in boom times.
more people have more money than ever.
as a city, we are rolling in money.
we have never been richer in NYC, especially when compared to other parts of the country.
we might as well just convert to the Euro and leave the mainland in the dust.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:51 PM

rents are coming down actually. Manhattan is down 5 percent this year. You can even get a free month in some buildings.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:52 PM

I love the Comments about How Park slope is the Best and CG is not. Weird how nobody mentions the fact How Carroll Gardens is so much safer. No one talks about all those Beautiful Kids that are from Other areas that walk thru the area at 3pm and vandalize and try to Rob and cause havoc. How come no one speaks of this in the Great Park Slope? You guys Know what i speak of right? The kids that Live In East NY or Canarsie. I love how everyone Loves ps 321 and Park Slope has the Bessssssssst schools But nobody will Mention how good PS 58 is and how the Principal Is a Columbia Grad and is just wonderful. Park slopers need to wake up.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 6:54 PM

Why are there no houses in PLG? That's a great neighborhood with a beautiful housing stock.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:09 PM

"Do you really think a brownstone is worth 2 million bucks? thats how much it costs sure, but is it worth that?"

yes, they are. something is worth what people are willing to pay for it.

and many, MANY people pay 2 million and up for a brownstone. in the case of north park slope, 3 million, in the case of brooklyn heights 5 million, in the case of the upper west side, 7 million and in the case of some on the upper east side and the west village, 20-40 million.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:14 PM

6:54...seems the general consensus on here is that people like park slope better than cg. and yes...ps. 321 is superior to ps. 58. in almost every way.

not all of us are afraid of black people like you are.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:16 PM

6:52...this is for you:

***Compared to April of last year, citywide rents are up across the board this month—a good sign for Manhattan real estate. Nationwide housing crisis notwithstanding, the city’s 2008 market seems to be following its typical seasonal patterns: Prices weakened in the winter months and, with the arrival of April and spring, have slowly begun their “peak season” ascent. As graduation and new hire season approaches, rents have already inched upward in many neighborhoods, particularly in those known for attracting young professionals and recent grads (such as Murray Hill, the East Village and the Upper East Side). Though in ’08 we may not see prices grow at past summers’ explosive rates, the fact that rents are rising as early as April seems to indicate that landlords are seeing demand pick up and feeling relatively optimistic about the market’s health in the upcoming months.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:20 PM

7:16 I don't think People are afraid of Black people if that is what 6:54 was talking about. It seems to me that Those with Families tend to choose Carroll Gardens and Cobble hill over Park slope because of the crime factor.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:22 PM

here's another little tidbit for you 6:52:

***
April 30, 2008 -- Operating costs for landlords of the city's million rent-stabilized apartment buildings jumped 7.8 percent last year, a harbinger that rent hikes this year will be larger than last.

The figures were reported yesterday by the Rent Guidelines Board, which meets Monday to begin the process of setting this year's rent hikes for leases signed on or after Oct. 1.

The final increases will be established in June after the usual round of public hearings.

Last year, when landlord costs jumped 5.1 percent, the board voted rent hikes of 3 percent for one-year lease renewals and 5.75 percent for two-year renewals.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:28 PM

"Weird how nobody mentions the fact How Carroll Gardens is so much safer."

weird how you don't realize that carroll gardens is 1/10th the size of park slope, is not nearly as diverse when you factor in that park slope goes from flatbush to 15th and ppw to 4th avenue. it's a large, multi-ethnic neighborhood, with over three times the number of people as cg. not surprising that it might have a tad more crime.

it is, however one of the safest neighborhoods around.

carroll gardens has a lot of unreported crimes. if you know what i mean...

THE MOB!

and i believe someone was just murdered a few weeks ago on smith street or thereabouts.

hasn't been a murder in park slope for quite a while.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:33 PM

7:22=6:54

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:34 PM

7:22 has to be one of the most ignorant posters today. Cobble Hill is comprised of a couple streets. Carroll Gardens is tiny.

It's like saying Westchester is more crime ridden than Utica!! No kidding...there are tons more people you idiot!!

And last I heard...Park Slope gets shit all the time...PRECISELY BECAUSE IT'S SO FAMILY ORIENTED.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:37 PM

there was a murder in Cg a Gay guy stabbed his lover. Anyone that thinks the Mob is still In Cg has not come out of a shell In 8 to 10 years. I do agree Park slope is much Bigger. Carroll is very very small.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:40 PM

for you, 7:40...check the date honeypie...2008!!!

Wednesday, February 13, 2008

Tough Times at Marco Polo in Carroll Gardens
There are not happy times at Carroll Gardens' Marco Polo restaurant on Court Street. The restaurant's owner, Joseph (Marco Polo) Chirico, was caught up in the Gambino crime family busts last week. The 63-year-old restaurant owner, who is a friend of many of Brooklyn's top public officials, including Borough President Marty Markowitz, was arraigned yesterday and released on $1 million bond. From the Post:

Chirico - freed on bond after putting up his Staten Island mansion as collateral - is accused of collecting $1,500 that was extorted from trucking-company executive Joseph Vollaro on behalf of fellow Gambino soldier Jerome Brancato. Vollaro - now in protective custody - wore a wire for three years to gather evidence against the Gambinos for authorities...The Italian immigrant's involvement in the case has stunned Brooklynites - among them judges, politicians and civic leaders who have frequented his eateries.

And a taste of the Daily News coverage:

But Chirico will be able to go back to work serving up gnocchi, capellini and other Italian fare at the restaurant he and his wife, Rosa, have run since 1983, said his lawyer, Joseph Benfante. "I guess we just can't serve the 'Godfather Special' on Sunday anymore," Benfante joked.

The lawyer maintained that Chirico was caught in the fed's net only because he did a favor he shouldn't have.

As PMFA put it, "Not a good week for Marco Polo."

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:45 PM

Park slope is Family Oriented but the comments make no sense. Park slope , Caroll Gardens , Cobble Hill and Bklyn Heights are the best Brooklyn has to offer. How can Anyone say Smith street is not wonderful is beyond me. Whatever !

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 7:46 PM

7:45 Guess what all of NYC is run by the MOB including Park Slope. Wake up.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 8:22 PM

Noklissa you are an ass.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:05 PM

7:20 this is for you
"The rental market continues to show weakness. In the first quarter of the year, the average rent for studios through three-bedrooms dropped 1.4 percent, according to a report from Citi Habitats. January's average was $3,221, February's was $3,180 and March's was $3,177. The decline between February and March was smaller than the drop the prior month.

But between first-quarter 2007 and first-quarter 2008, the average rent dropped a larger 3.9 percent, according to the market report from Citi Habitats, to $3,193 from $3,322. "

also in case you cant read very well the second article is about rent stabilized apts. which have nothing to do with the real market.

Time to ask the landlords for lower rents ladies and gents

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:11 PM

Clinton Hill is all ugly painted stoops? Could have fooled me.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:19 PM

Those two houses on Berkeley: contract signed yesterday per the agent.
The houses have issues. Too bad. Frankly, the price and the fact there were some empty apartments...and the location-location-location...got me thinking we could have swapped out our house for these and moved from to prime Slope.

Wasn't meant to be. Anyway, I where we are.

Now, I know the house on Cumberland pretty well...at least I did when it had a LOT of its old, original flavor with some (unfortunate-ish) late 80's reno here and there.

Frankly, it was a very surprising layout that almost felt like a warren because of the multi-level thing going on.

The cutest and really (seemingly) most authentic feature was the back kitchen that felt like a big shack or lean-to. It had a cast iron stove (small) in the middle of the room with a pipe rising to the high ceiling. I seem to remember the floor was a rolled out linoleum sheet from the 1930's with some areas that had sheet metal tacked down. An old fashioned, I seem to remember enameled tin lap hung down. It was very quaint. Felt like an ol' ramshackle Vermont or Upstate NY sugar shack (not a version of "Love Shack" but the building where maple syrup is made).

Behind it there was a smaller woodshed lean-to usually with logs in it. From outside (in the yes, small backyard) it looked remarkably picturesque and very much like one of the (two) famous Francis Guy paintings of Brooklyn Heights from c.1820 (Winter Scene in Brooklyn).

Ultimately, that entirely reconfigured back which was probably trying to meet landmarking requirements more-or-less, explaining the current shape, looks sort of like a modular-home version of what it was before—it could have been a lot sweeter with some planning…could still be with the right touches…

Sadly the backyard photo looks like a double-wide and its adjoining patio…with the chairs facing the dull wall…and the mulch and the chimera…and the lattice slapped up on the fence…ugh, ugh, ugh…they need some better stuff out there and I hope they slap in some greenery, bushes or spring flowers for the open house. This is a poorly designed little patio but I guess they use the glum deck off the kitchen…I wonder if the breeze whips through the deck/alleyway…not to knock it though. It’s convenient to the kitchen and of decent proportions.

One other (while I’m at it) issue with the backyard is that the brick apartment house with its fire escapes on the north side of the house (the house shares a party wall with apartment bldg.) rather looms over the house and yard and unfortunately, a bunch of years ago (in the 00’s) new owners of a couple of different houses with yards nearby on the north side of this houses yard cut down a huge Northern White pine, some firs and, though a weed tree in most instances, an incredibly well grown ailanthus which had pink seed cases and very graceful, rococo curved branches. It had ivy or climbing hydrangea on it so it carried greenery all year. Too bad it was taken down though I’m sure it was a seed-vector for all the yards. It gave birth to other ailanthus that appear to be taking its place but not as nicely. The original one may have been, believe it or not, planted on purpose…chalk it up to another era ..

(BTW ailanthus trees were brought to North America in the 1770’s so these urban weed trees have been around for a long time and are making it even into more remote areas. They were planted in Washington Square Park originally as the square’s main shade tree…stinky…ugh…but apparently the fragrance was not regarded with as much disdain then as it is now.)

The house had some REAL work done to it, yes, but I still wonder if the not-too-thick walls were that insulatable (sp?). I'm sure cellulose was blown in...can't imagine wanting to rip out interior walls to lay in insulation material... I remember watching work progress (maybe under two successive owners since the late 90’s) but had no idea that the entire back was redone this way. What is the kitchen now was a dining room/catch all room. It looks like they got away with extending the second floor back further than it was back “in the day”.

Yes, the house DOES have a flowering (right now) pink dogwood out front which is in the photo. The house sits up on an original hill that was cut back for the later narrow townhouses to the right and that afore-mentioned 1920's dark apartment house on the left. So, it sits up on a little rise which makes it sweet but, be aware that the retaining walls need a good deal of work/redoing... probably not a cheap job.

Despite the photos on the real estate site, the house can be dark inside. The alley is dark up against the neighboring brownstone and three 16 ft wide brownstones stand between it and the former Brooklyn Ear & Ear Infirmary (hospital) on it's south side which has been low income senior apartments for over well over 20 years. Whatever. It still gets light in the front. And the back, now there are windows…the old kitchen addition didn’t have a back window that I remember (or they were blocked by the wood shed), so maybe there is morning light now.

Personally, I prefer our house which is on a north-south axis than these east-west houses. We get tons of winter sun while east-west houses don't get that much.

I like the mod kitchen but "miss" the quaintness of the old one from years past.

I would live in the house without renting the upstairs. I can't imagine how they accommodated the original layout to two separate living spaces without having to share the staircase.

I'm sure the house will show really well...I wonder if it means we'll get another golden lab and a Volvo in the neighborhood! ;-) just kidding!

Welcome to “somebody”—see you in the nabe! (This house WILL sell! Maybe to Nikolissa and co.)

Happy openhousing tomorrow and Sunday everyone!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:21 PM

9:11: The answer to your question about having me - a homeowner - lowering your rent, "No."

Now what? Move? Feel free. I'll get another renter and chanrge them more.

Oh wait, I don't need a renter to help me pay the mortage on my brownstone so I don't have to share my house with the bitter bunch. I can enjoy it all to myself.

AND

My mortage on my 3-story house is less than the average rent you quoted. You renters just keep getting fucked. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:22 PM

the numbers you probivided, 9:11 were from ONE individual brokerage firm...citihabits.

the article i posted first was speaking to the ENTIRE nyc rental market, which is a very different and more all-encompassing data reference.

your example is like saying that because hillary clinton won new york, she will automatically win the presidency.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:23 PM

Oh, sorry, just realized, there's a back staircase in the house so the two "units" ARE separate...

The downstairs unit only has one room and a bathroom on the second floor. The staircase has a door on the ground floor and opens into the "bedroom"...more like a rec room really.

Those is some small bedrooms downstairs.

It's too bad there was no way to creat light wells or excavate enough to create living space out of the cellar but I think the cellar is only under the "main" part of the house" so has a small footprint. I wonder why they couldn't (aside from engineering, money, etc.) create a usuable lower level in the back with some light wells since it looks to me like everything that was there originally was ripped out and replaced. Probaby would have been very hard to do...

oh well.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 9:29 PM

The whole CG vs PS is so silly. Everything that's found in PS (good schools, nice architecture, good restaurants and shops) can be found in CG and in a bunch of other neighborhoods in Brooklyn as well. PS does have the park though. Anyone that says that CG doesn't have nice architecture probably never walked down Clinton or the Place blocks. Retail is more than just Smith, there's Court too. It seems like anytime there is a CG house, the debate isn't about the whether the house justifies the price, but whether the entire neighborhood justifies the price.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 12:24 AM

What is that horrible, putrid smell?

Is Montrose Morris and her odiferous poonanner nearby?

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 6:51 AM

1:36 said earlier in the thread (I haven't read all through the rest of the comments):

"Maybe there should be a segment 'Cheap open house picks' I'm looking in Bed Sty, Sunset Park, Bay Ridge and Crown Heights and would love to see open house picks in those area for around 800K. There are plenty. This site is geared for the rich."

That suggestion has been made over and over and over and over again on Brownstoner for the last two years. Brownstoner is plainly completely ignoring the under-million houses and IMO it's all about the advertising dollars. If he can claim all his visitors are upper-income, then that helps him sell ads. Problem is, it's not true about his regular visitors. The buyers coming from Manhattan to purchase $3 million houses, are they really hanging around on Brownstoner? Most posts I ever see here are from people who already own a modest place in Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 11:32 AM

I'm one of those who think housing, both to purchase or rent, will continue to rise in cost. But we all should remember you'd only benefit from that if you sell and leave the city entirely to buy in a much cheaper place. Because once your place appreciates everything else has gone up too. So it evens out. You can't sell and trade up to a bigger place in a prime neighborhood without still spending a significant amount of money more. Which by the way is why some people choose to get bigger places in "fringe" neighborhoods. For those who don't get it. And why people are trading Manhattan for Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 11:45 AM

Exactly 11:45am! This site used to cater to all open houses...expensive to "somewhat" affordable. Now, it's just plain ole ridiculous what the Open House Picks are these days. And, yes, it all boils down to which real estate company pays for advertising on this site. So, if one their sponsors has an open house, it will overshadow a "smaller$$" agency that has just as much to offer, if not better.

Mr. B, have you "sold your soul to the devil"? Let's go back to the ole days...a little of this and a little of that.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 11:53 AM

I mean exactly 11:32am...:-)

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 11:55 AM

i know TONS of people in manhattan who read brownstoner like it's their job. nokilissa on here is one of them.

and i find most readers already own brownstones in brooklyn, and are indeed high income.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 11:55 AM

I prefer seeing the 2 million plus brownstones for Open House picks.

They are the prettiest anyway.

The cheaper brownstones are in the crime-ridden, gross neighborhoods.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 11:58 AM

go start your own blog if you want to talk about cheaper stuff.

you people disgust me.

this is bstoner's blog. he can post about whatever he likes!!! that's the beauty of this country.

and if you don't like it.

go do it for YOURSELF!!!!

ever heard of nytimes.com real estate section, or you you need EVERYTHING spoon fed to you whiny babies.

my god. the sense of entitlement from people like 11:55 and 11:32 never cease to amaze me with their laziness.

stop criticizing something you have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to assist with.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 12:01 PM

The price of housing will indeed continue to rise, just like the price of everything else.

The people who think that NYC is in for anything other than a temporary blip before prices start to rise again have never been outside the country to see that NYC is still a bargain compared with almost every other major world city.

This ain't Kansas City, people. It's the capital of the world.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 12:05 PM

12:05 is right. 2 million is the new 1 million.
Every city in the country has new 2 million dollar condos sprouting up in their downtowns. Even St Louis and Baltimore for god's sake.

Why would it be so crazy for a gorgeous brownstone in one of the best cities to cost a similar price? I think you all need to spend more time getting a second job or going back to school so that you can enhance your career and make more money instead of hoping that prices go down enough so that you can afford one.

You know...the American dream?

It's not called the American handout.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 12:09 PM

Nokilissa,

2:34 here, from yesterday, finally answering your question about why people like/love Carroll Gardens (none of the other answers were mine). By the way, I think CG is still cheaper than PS -- you have to compare prime CG with prime PS, and you find the place blocks of CG aren't as expensive as the best PS blocks.

Other posters have already addressed your question of shopping and good restaurants. Smith St. may be getting too many chains, but there are new interesting places opening up on Court St. and Henry St. In fact, given how small the entire CG area is, there are probably more in a smaller square radius than in PS.

In addition, the elementary school that most of CG is zoned for (not this Sackett St. property, however) is very well-liked by families in the neighborhood. PS 58 still remains relatively unknown beyond neighborhood borders, but that's probably why it's not crowded -- class sizes are as low as 19 or 20 and never larger than 24. You only have to look at the posters around the neighborhood announcing this coming "multicultural week" activities to understand why parents and kids love it -- there are author readings, multicultural music and dance performances, and breakfasts for parents featuring food from different countries/cultures. And the posters feature a dazzling array of beautiful kids who are students at the schools who represent the diversity of the families who attend. Every student at the school learns to play violin, viola, bass or cello (one of the few schools city-wide with this program), there's a french dual language program, and the test scores are pretty much on par with the other good elementary schools in Brooklyn.

But the main reason families like the school is probably the same as the reason they like the neighborhood -- that it is extremely small in scale. Living in Carroll Gardens is getting the experience of being in a small town while living in a large city. Your neighbors ring your doorbell if you forget to move your car on alternate side street parking day to let you know. You go to Carroll Park or walk down Court Street and end up saying hi to a dozen people you know by name. You walk into the elementary school and know every teacher and administrator by name, and they know you and your kid.

Granted, this is definitely not for everyone. If you hate the small town atmosphere, where you have to stop and chat with your neighbors when you see them working in their front gardens, you won't like it. Lots of people move to NYC from other places because they like feeling anonymous in a big city.

And, CG does lack a park, although it's certainly easy to get to one any weekend. But, it is full of trees and gardens, and when you walk down a place block in spring you are amazed at how restful and green it is. It's also not as "diverse" as some other neighborhoods if you are specifically talking about people of color, although there are certainly many people from different cultures living in the neighborhood.

I'm sure Park Slope residents have many similar things to say about their neighborhood, and I am in no way saying Carroll Gardens is better or worse. Different strokes for different folks as they say. But just trying to explain what people like about CG. You get a small town feel with all the advantages of living in the city. Probably not what lots of people are looking for, but I suspect most of the people who want to live in CG will tell you that's what they like about it.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 1:14 PM

Here's a little something for those fools who are still in denial about the weakening market:

Inventory in Manhattan has grown from 5,300 at the beginning of Feb to 7,100 today.

That's 34% in 3 months.

As goes Manhattan, goes Brooklyn.

Aaaaaahhhh, the salad days are over. And you know what - it feels GREAT!!

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 4:48 PM

7100 is still historically low.

lots of people are new here and don't realize that there was life before 2000, when around 10,000-15,000 homes were on the market at any given time.

20,000 and up in some of the even rougher times of the early 90's and 70's.

7100 is terrific. building has nearly come to a halt.

when this current inventory gets bought up, prices are going to get might tight again.

and THAT feels great!

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 5:48 PM

what...no THE WHAT? telling us the world is coming to an end?

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 5:57 PM

"This ain't Kansas City, people. It's the capital of the world."

Capitol of the third world, maybe.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 6:20 PM

"building has nearly come to a halt."

Are you blind, stupid or kidding?

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 6:21 PM

i'm neither blind nor stupid, 6:21. i just like to go by facts rather than soapboxes.

here is your info on how the building this year has PLUNGED 69%.

so yes...inventory might spike initially, but then there is going to be a marked drop because of the lack of new buildings being developed.

http://www2.nysun.com/article/75313

and btw, 7100 homes for sale in manhattan is NOTHING compared to the 200,000 for sale is cities like miami, san diego, las vegas and phoenix.

and i believe manhattan is about 1.8 million people. twice the size of some of the cities i just mentioned.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 7:01 PM

" At the current rate, there will be permits for just 17,000 new residential units in the city in 2008... a drastic change from 2007, when there were nearly 32,000 building permits issued for individual units"

So, another 50,000 units coming online.

I'm not seeing any inventory shortage.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 8:26 PM

then you're blind, 8:26.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 8:37 PM

And what of our esteemed mayor who predicts sharply reduced revenues from the housing market?

By the way, I'm the person who pointed out that, though we are in the market for a townhouse (trading up from apt we own) and are lucky to have funds to buy, we're disgusted by the Darwinian tone to some of the posts here which brag about the poster's wealth and make fun of those without the means to buy a townhouse in this crazy market. We will probably cough up what we think is a hell of al ot of money for a townhouse in the next year or so (though we're in no rush since we are convinced that prices are not going to rise for this period and we will be discriminating since it really does seem like prices are out of whack now and heading for at least a mild correction). BUT, as with when we first bought in NYC, 7 years ago, we really do see how the real estate market reveals something disturbing about this city and arguably about overall economic trends beyond NYC which is the rising inequality of income distribution. The people on this list who gloat about this, and their wealth, are just gross in my opinion. As for the person pointing to my post as the teapot calling the kettle black, I was simply pointing out that we are not "poor bitter renters" since whenever someone talks about the insanity about the current prices, and expresses a hope for things softening, it seems to be assumed that it's just sour grapes. But that's not the case for us (though we are by no means wealthy since our incomes are relatively modest - we were just lucky to have bought early enough to have had some major capital with which to trade up). Even if we can afford to buy a decent property here in NYC, I'm still very disturbed by the lack of affordability for many friends of mine, or just middle-class people who should have a place in NYC. I know, the argument is for them to just move further out, and of course, that is what they do, but I would much prefer to live in a neighborhood with socio-economic diversity than one that becomes homogenized by the brutal market forces of the last few years. And frankly, sometimes I'm embarassed by my ability to buy a nice property when I see all these hard-working people who can't - not because they are inferior people, or don't work hard enough (as is implied by some of the more smug crass posters here) but simply because they chose vocations - arts, education, nonprofit, etc - that don't pay the kind of very high salaries that are currently the only ticket to entry in the prime neighborhoods (other than independent or family wealth) if you are a first time buyer. Truly, I think a market correction would be a good thing for this city. Not a crash mind you - that would not be good even for the first-time buyers since it would mean bad things for the city as a whole - but a correction up to 20% wouldn't hurt many already in the market, nor the city as a whole that much (given the crazy recent run-up) whereas it might just allow some first-time buyers a better shot of getting in.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 9:08 PM

12:05 - I'm planning to buy during the "blip" - really, this next year or so should hopefully prove to be one when buyers will have more leverage. Certainly a number of properties are dropping prices and others will have to continue doing so. But right now, the blip is only just beginning - and prices are arguably truly at a peak - not THE peak, since there will be others in the future, but looking at the real estate cyle which is ALWAYS a cycle, all signs point to a trough in the graph - let's see what's happening in November of this year...

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 10:42 PM

Nokilissa,
Regarding why Carroll Gardens is a great neighborhood. The earlier poster did a great job describing Carroll Gardens, but here's my take.

I actually chose Carroll Gardens over Park Slope and Fort Green, although I love both of those neighborhoods as well. Perhaps I just found the right place in CG before the other neighborhoods. But CG has a great vibe that you don't find in any other neighborhood. In fact, every neighborhood has its own interesting vibe, which is why I love Brooklyn in general. But since you asked about CG, it still maintains some semblance of the older pre-gentrified Brooklyn, which I find refreshing. There are still mom and pop stores here that add a lot of character to the neighborhood. Places that have been around for decades. I love going into some of these stores and chatting with the old timers who have seen this neighborhood through lots of different times. Although it is sort of love hate relationship with the old Italians in Carroll Gardens. Some are great wonderful interesting people and some of them are racists and assholes and just not real friendly. But every neighborhood has assholes.

CG is extremely kid friendly and very safe. There are tons of weekend and after school activities to do with kids. Carroll Gardens still has some of the best restaurants in Brooklyn. In fact the top Zagat rated restaurants in Brooklyn are in Carroll Gardens and Cobble Hill. There is no shortage of great places to eat. Both Smith and Court streets are great shopping streets in general. Some people may like 5th ave better in Park Slope or Lafayette or Dekalb in Fort Greene, but Smith and Court are amazing shopping streets.

I happen to live in a part of CG that is zoned for PS 29, which is an amazing elementary school and rated one of the best in Brooklyn. PS 58 is also a great elementary school in CG. Carroll Gardens has a very multi-cultural population. On my block alone there is a French family, a Guatemalan family, a Korean Family, and of course, several Italian families. There is also a great West African restaurant a block away called Korhogo 126. You should try it.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 11:37 PM

"stop criticizing something you have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to assist with."

Um...how about merely reading this blog regularly?? Without regular readers it ain't nothing. No advertisers. No buzz. No links from other bloggers to the site. Nuttin.

And by the way, Brownstoner is a grown man, he doesn't need you to get all tweeniebopper crushy all over him and defend him from the horrid meanies who are merely providing feedback and suggestions for more types of features. Which, uh, he ASKS FOR from readers on a pretty regular basis which anybody knows who has been reading this blog for the last couple years. It's just a little weird he asks for feedback on what people want to see more of, then ignores it, that's all anybody was saying. As for others creating their own blogs - they are. And they're growing in popularity.

Posted by: guest at May 3, 2008 11:48 PM

"you people disgust me."

Funny, I find elitist a-holes insulting people who can't afford $3 million houses disgusting. Just shows how different we are.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 12:01 AM

Before anyone wastes too much time....

Many of the posts in this thread have simply been cut and pasted from old (in some cases YEARS old) Open House Picks. I thought one of them seemed familiar...too familiar...and sure enough it was from an old OHP. I've since found several others.

The real question here is: What kind of moron gets his jollies this way?

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 7:19 AM

ALL OF THESE OPEN HOUSE PICKS SEEM TO BE BEAUTIFULLY RENOVATED AND TAYLOR MADE FOR THE OWNER!!! WHY ARE THEY ON THE MARKET???

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 7:28 AM

"brownstoner seems very disconnected from the present economy"

Because he owns these open house picks and has set the asking prices?

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 7:33 AM

Regarding the Clinton Hill house, between every price increase the owner does some crap renovation (I think it might be new baths this time around) which, given the need to rip his work out, make you want to pay less, not more, for the property.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 7:44 AM

"With the Clinton Hill house you will be fixing things your whole life".

LOL--that applies to ANY old house--unless you have LOTS of $$ to hire people to do everything, you can look at buying a brownstone as acquiring a new and facinating hobby. Anyone who doesn't think they're so inclined might be better off looking at newly built condos. Old houses aren't for everyone.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 7:46 AM

Park Slope house was first listed by the same broker, but with Corcoran. Now this broker has apparently switched to Prudential? Price was initially $2.3 m, now reduced.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 7:48 AM

The two Park Slope (or Gowanus however you look at that one) seem they are being sold by older longtime owners - they weren't renovated anytime recently. The CG house too looks mostly unrenovated with a cheaper kitchen. The PLG house was an older owner as I understand it but had the kitchen and fixtures fixed up for the sale.

So these aren't newer more recent homeowners giving up on owning a house or anything like that. Probably just people getting old and retiring.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 7:50 AM

"Manhattan 1.6 million people: 7,000 units on market

Las Vegas 1.2 million people: 150,000 units on market

Phoenix 1.7 million people: 300,000 units on market

Miami 800,000 people: 200,000 units on market
"

Nice presentation. Couple of comments though. Isn't Miami's population 400,000 (this would help your point)? Also, it's noteworty to mention that NYC's homeownership rate is half the nation's average (33% vs 67%, http://tinyurl.com/6op4g5). So, although your point still stands, slight adjustments do need to be made to your population numbers.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 8:21 AM

"It might be a short downturn (1-2 years) or longer (3-5, as it was in the last downturn in late 80s-early 90s)"

Definitely longer. Economic conditions are much worse today than they were in the early 90's. We didn't have a negative savings rate then. Long downturn people.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 9:35 AM

If you are not happy with the picks, then check the one at 112 st. marks pl. I saw it yesterday - seems it was never renovated, except for the top floor which has a newer kitchen. Nice house, priced low, but i was not planning on renovating all 4 floors!

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 10:33 AM

THANK YOU 7:19am for noticing that a bunch of these off topic posts were posted by some very sad person who apparently copied and pasted them from previous posts. I'm am so sorry for you, poster of those. I guess if it makes you happy to ruin the possibility of others having a reasonable discussion of these houses, you have succeeded and you can feel good about yourself, since it seems you lack other means of feeling happiness in your life. Now, I hope everyone will ignore him.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 11:06 AM

i'm sorry for you 11:06 for adding ZERO to this conversation.

i'm pretty sure most people saw your first line and ignored YOU.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 12:07 PM

I actually think it's pretty cool that someone would do that. It's creative and inherently more interesting than the usual back-and-forth about these houses.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 12:09 PM

since no one even posted which posts were old, i think the conversation is asinine.

let's see some proof, please with the post from this thread and from the past.

otherwise i don't see it.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 12:24 PM

12:07, 12:09 and 12:24 - you should wait a bit before posting more than one response, or you will have a hard time fooling anyone.
But, I guess I hit a nerve with you. Sorry, I didn't mean to upset you. Look, you win. You are correct, your copying and pasting of posts was 100% cool and creative. I really hope it gives you some small measure of happiness to know what a great job you did. Well-done. Now, I am going out to enjoy the day and hope you do too.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 12:56 PM

12:56 - asshat.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 1:29 PM

I love Carroll Gardens. I can push my baby around all day while I sip Starbucks and look for cute onesies. I especially like American Apparel. That store is so unique and different!

I do wish there was a park here though. The moms at Carroll Park are vicious to my little Aidan.

Marco Polo is my favorite restaurant here. Those guys who sit around and smoke while yelling "nice rack" at the local women are so charming and cute.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 6:51 PM

Starbucks and American Apparel are in Cobble Hill actually. But, oh well, close enough.

If you want to talk about great restaurants on Smith Street and the surrounding area, how about Saul, which gets a 27 in Zagat, or Lucali, which also gets a 27. There are no other restaurants in Brooklyn that get a 27. Or Grocery, which gets a 26. Or Po, which gets a 25 and so does Ki Sushi. Frankie's gets a 24 and and so does Petit Crevette and the list goes on and on.

But go on posting your neighborhood stereotypes, if that's how you jerk yourself off.

Posted by: guest at May 4, 2008 11:33 PM

Actually boerum hill

Posted by: guest at May 5, 2008 5:42 AM

To 4:48,

Inventory has gone up since february because less people put their houses on the market in winter. Studies show that people are more inclined to move and spend in spring/summer/fall.

Sorry. Try again.

Posted by: guest at May 5, 2008 10:26 AM

wow...could you carroll gardens people be ANY more defensive?

listing the restaurants with their zagat rating??

uhhhh....desperate, much??

Posted by: guest at May 5, 2008 10:40 AM

I think the NYC show is awful. They chose such a white-trashy bunch of wives. Its embarrassing.

Posted by: guest at May 5, 2008 10:42 AM

I checked the Cumberland house.
It was very nice...kind of a suburban redo as I had suspected. I think the top fl bathroom was the one I remember from 15 years ago. The others were redone in varying degrees of Restoration Hardware meets Suburbs. The upper duplex master bath has odd commode placement and the whole room is too big. Might was will a dressing room with small showered bathroom.

Kids' bedroom were small to tiny depending. Very comfortable space downstairs.

Exterior wood casing on some of the older windows needs work.

Backyard could you redesign and you could get more usuable and more pleasant space from it.

I would live in the entire house. Kitchen downstairs though could use a movable island on wheels which is easy enough.

Am wondering how well insulated this house is.

Looking at it, considering a good part of the extension, if not all of it, is slab on grade, I'm wondering if a lower level could have been built on the "basement level". Since this house is on a little hill of sorts, the neighboring backyards (garden floor level) are on level with the house's basement. Wondering if they could have built a full walk out or at least decently-windowed lower level instead of slab on grade.

Posted by: guest at May 5, 2008 1:09 PM

Nokilissa,

Did you go to the Cumberland Open House? Dogwood in front and one in a neighbor's yard out back...

If you saw it, what did you think?

Posted by: guest at May 5, 2008 5:45 PM