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May 29, 2008
House of the Day: 24 Clifton Place
There's a lot to recommend this three-family brownstone at 24 Clifton Place in Clinton Hill—beautiful old floors and moldings, a new kitchen—but, unfortunately, price isn't one of them. Even without the unfortunate exposed brick, this place seems to us to be a big stretch at the asking price of $1,750,000. Clifton Place certainly has its charms but in this market, we're thinking that $1,600,000 is a more likely number. That said, the three-story house next door did sell for $1,370,500 last year, so it's not impossible. Those were different times, though,
24 Clifton Place [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
exposed brick is bad? not to mention the recessed lighting in the kitchen--right? that alone probably deducts $500K off the price...
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:21 PM
What's wrong with exposed brick??
I love it! One of the reasons I bought my place was for the exposed brick...
I don't get all the commentary about recessed lighting, exposed brick and granite.
At all.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:23 PM
But it's got shiny floors! And methinks I spied a couple of recessed lights in the kitchen. This place will never sell with those atrocities! :-)
Seriously, this looks like a nice space, with a beautiful kitchen and garden, and a lot of flexibility in terms of how the owner chooses to use the house. If I were a musician, looking for some rental income to offset the cost of the mortgage, this place would definitely be of interest.
Posted by: Park Sloper at May 29, 2008 1:27 PM
22 Clifton, next door, is STILL for sale at similar price. I believe it's where the guy was shot and killed on the stoop, no?
http://realestate.nytimes.com/sales/detail/395-122
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:29 PM
I like exposed brick in 1500 - 1700s houses, I agree it looks less nice in 1800s houses, but I could be convinced. (full disclosure - not an American)
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:34 PM
To Mr. B,
A legitimate question: Why is exposed brick unfortunate?
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:34 PM
How much does it cost to put the hat back on this poor house?
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:35 PM
I like exposed brick and recessed lighting too.
But hell, I'm an eighties guy.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:36 PM
I'm not an exposed brick fan in this sort of house either. The other negative is the white framed windows (look like white storm windows) and lack of cornice on the front. All can be fixed/restored relatively easily.
If it was a 2 family (upper triplex with ground apartment and deck of parlor to the garden) I think it would easily fetch the price, especially if the other things I mentioned above were rectified.
$1.6 would be quite a good deal imo (a bit low actually - but you never know). Look at that Greene Ave. place from yesterday's big deals post $2.3MM!
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:38 PM
Exposed brick is fine, or even great, in some scenarios like a converted 19th century commercial building. In a Victorian brownstone, however, it doesn't work, in our opinion. It looks random and out of place to have a handful of wall sections exposed like this. But, hey, it's just an opinion.
Posted by: brownstoner at May 29, 2008 1:41 PM
Mr. B has previously stated his unequivocal dislike of exposed brick, no matter the home. It is annoying how he's transitioned to treating it like its a universal negative, though, when I suspect he's in the minority.
Posted by: blowfish at May 29, 2008 1:45 PM
Taxes are 11K. Is that the norm for area brownstones?
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:45 PM
Oh no! I cross-posted with Mr. B, and his comment undermines mine. oh well. i would take it back if i knew how.
Posted by: blowfish at May 29, 2008 1:48 PM
"Taxes are 11K. Is that the norm for area brownstones?"
No.
I'd rather live in South Slope than this area for this money. I do believe this house is immediately next door to the murder last year.
LOVE exposed brick (and I'm American)
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:49 PM
I dont understand why yesterday the house at 149 Greene Ave sold for 2.3 million and it was a 2 family and this house is a 3 family at 1.75 and is not expected to sell at that.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:49 PM
Does the duplex share the stairs with the top floor rental?
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:51 PM
He's not in the minority on exposed brick in a Victorian interior. That said, its not expensive to get rid of it.
I looked at countertops for a kitchen over the weekend...its not for a Brooklyn brownstone..and i saw a great HONED black granite..very much like soapstone without the maintenance.
I like this place but its only about 42' deep. That said, if you can live without a formal dining room this place isn't bad. It looks like from the floorplans that they may have dealt with the two upstairs rental units' access the right way. Don't know what the block looks like.
And, if you've modernized the kitchen, recessed lighting should be allowed.
Hope I haven't stepped on too many toes with these comments
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 29, 2008 1:52 PM
seems rather expensive for anyone who would want to live in that area. the taxes are not low either.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:54 PM
I'm all for exposed brick. I have an entire wall of it in my loft.... and recessed lighting in my kitchen. The shame.
Wait... Are those parquet floors???? I just threw up in my mouth. The horror.
Please, hurry someone call Apartment Therapy.
:)
Posted by: Adam Dahill at May 29, 2008 1:58 PM
I think the taxes are higher since of the 4 family C of O. If this had fewer legal units, the taxes would be lower.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:58 PM
Here is the article on shooting at 22 Clifton Place, right next door to this HOTD:
http://nytimes.com/2007/09/14/nyregion/14shooting.html
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 1:59 PM
The taxes can't be $11,000. Its a misprint, like the word "coi" The taxes may actually be as low as $1,100 per year. Check Propertyshark.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 29, 2008 2:00 PM
I can't believe you would state your own opinion on your own blog. Don't you know that that's our job?
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:00 PM
Why did everyone yesterday say that GORGEOUS South Slope home sold for a huge price, but this house is in a much less gentrified neighborhood and would command a similar price. It makes no sense.
Clinton Hill has not NEARLY gentrified to the point of having homes sell for near to or over 2 million dollars. Sorry, but to spend that kind of money, I'm going to need better schools, less crime (less next door neighbors being killed), much better restaurants and shops and MUCH better transportation access.
Please tell me why people spend around 2 million dollars to live in this area...?
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:01 PM
Taxes were $5,334. However, it states that its only 2,520 sq. ft. and three stories. It's 3,360 sq. ft. with that garden level. There is no C of O.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 29, 2008 2:07 PM
it's a very odd and unpleasant floorplan.
I would pass on this. too much work, too little to offer, too dicey a location.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:08 PM
the brick in party walls of brownstones was never meant to be exposed and as such was almost always inexpensively built with really large mortar beds and uneven bricks. if you are going to fight for exposed brick at least it should be beautiful, even workmanship worth looking at not just knee jerk i like brick because i saw it in some loft.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:15 PM
Didn't the house at the end of the block Corcoran had not sell for 1.9M after months? The one on the corner of Grand? This house is the same one that has been on MLS forever as well.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:25 PM
I don't believe it! In all their puffery, Corcoran didn't even mention it's a mere three blocks from ze Flea!
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:25 PM
I personally don't like exposed brick in these residences - but there is no point complaining about it (any more than recessed lighting) as you can easily put sheetrock over it (you can assume the plaster was in lousy shape and not terribly worth salvaging, else they'd probably not have bothered to rip it out.)
That said, I recognize that many DO like it. When I was doing some fix-ups before selling my place, I was going to cover over the brick in my kitchen, but only didn't because a younger, more fashion-conscious friend told me no way - and I figure she was much closer to the buyers in both taste and the income-level needed to buy it.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:27 PM
It'll go like a flapjack. Very desireable listing (condition + location). Over ask.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:33 PM
i'm a designer and i generally like exposed brick, but i agree in this type of home it's not true-to-form. luckily it is easy to cover up with a layer of sheetrock.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:34 PM
2.15 - spot on with the comments regarding when brick is worth exposing - and when it isn't
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:44 PM
2:34: what would have been a traditional wall covering for a house of this era? wallpaper? paint? Interested to know. Thanks.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:49 PM
not 2:34, but clearly would be one or the other :-)
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:56 PM
I've seen a lot of these homes where the garden level brick is exposed but from the parlor floor and above it's plastered over. What I do find strange and off-putting is the exposed chimney brick with plaster remaining either side. Weird just weird.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 2:56 PM
Another junk floorplan with the kitchen on one floor and living room on the other. Who lives like that?
And a laundry that's bigger than most bathrooms?
And no space for a dining table?
Posted by: cmu at May 29, 2008 2:59 PM
2:49 in my personal experience it is typically plaster.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 3:01 PM
Fascinating that you're all debating about recessed lighting and exposed brick with the entrenched activity a couple doors down. Come back at midnight and check out the fighting, screaming, blasting SUVs, etc. And if you buy, plan on sleeping in the rear of the house, budget for bullet proof vests, and forget about calling the 88th.
But then again, if Corcoran says it's a quiet block, maybe they know something the locals don't.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 3:08 PM
do potential buyers know what a drug riddled neighborhood they would be buying into? the corner of Clifton and Grand is far from safe or quiet; just hang around there some evening. at least the old East Village was cheap when it was a drug destination.
a different kind of brick problem it seems.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 3:10 PM
Our 1875 Brownstone in CH had stencils on the walls in the front parlor and hallway of what remained of the plaster. None of these houses were originally made to have exposed brick and I agree with 2:15, although I am not a strict traditionalist. These houses were made to be grand, not like a converted industrial loft.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 3:14 PM
You people are insane. Such Neo-Brooklyn but snobbish nonetheless. This is a great block. The brick is lovely and a "real" brownstone has the same layout/floorplan. It will sell. A block from the train in the cherished Pratt Clinton Hill area. The seller has nothing to worry about. I wouldn't care is there was still a chalk outline on the sidewalk out in front this place. It is far better than some of the other crap on the market for far more.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 3:16 PM
I can't wait for Brownstoner to put his house on the market and see everyone gripe about it!!!! I guess the reaction will be similar to the "thin skin" he had about people who said his furniture was ugly......
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 4:22 PM
Ronnie is hot. I would love to view his listings!
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 4:28 PM
3:16 = broker.
you wouldn't care if there was a chalk outline out front when paying almost 2 million dollars??
you are a whackjob.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 4:38 PM
"I wouldn't care is there was still a chalk outline on the sidewalk out in front this place."
Spoken like a true con-artist, i.e., broker or seller.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 4:46 PM
Could some explain why a two bedroom apartment with the kitchen and LR on different floors plus landlord duty should sell for anything over $750,000 in any neighborhood in Brooklyn?
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 4:51 PM
"Could some explain why a two bedroom apartment with the kitchen and LR on different floors plus landlord duty should sell for anything over $750,000 in any neighborhood in Brooklyn?"
Because they cost 2-20 million 15 minutes away in a little place called Manhattan...
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 4:58 PM
This is not a $2 million property. They are ASKING $1.7. Big difference.
4:51: I don't know what planet you live on, but you can't buy a house of this size for $750K anywhere in Brooklyn except a few places miles to the east of this in some less desirable neighborhoods.
Can the tweens please stop postng here and go back to their MySpace pages.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 5:12 PM
I remember similar houses on this block being priced at 1.2 two or three years ago. Since I couldn't afford any of these prices, I can't really judge whether they are right or not. I love that neighborhood - my favorite bar - Grand 275 - is right around the corner. Also Choice. The drug activity at Clifton and Grand seems much reduced. This whole swatch of the neighborhood (South East Clinton Hill) has a lot of houses on the market, most on worse blocks or in worse shape than this. If you actually wanted to live in the neighborhood and were able to spend 1 million plus might seem to make more sense to buy one of those and renovate yourself.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at May 29, 2008 5:44 PM
I would love to see people's house on this board. I'm sure it's not even close to being as nice as this place on Clifton.
Sort of like when fat ugly people have the nerve to call Britney Spears fat.
Anyway, exposed brick is great but it doesn't work in every room. And the masonry and the brick color have to be done well.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 5:48 PM
"you can't buy a house of this size for $750K"
Wait until 2010 and I bet you can.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 6:12 PM
i live on this block and it's great in my opinion - friendly, convenient, with pretty good, improving, amenities. that said, the price seems kind of high from where i sit.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 8:04 PM
aren't you frightened by all the murders and shootings in your immediate area, 8:04?
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 8:08 PM
I heard the owners are selling and moving to Park Slope.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 8:09 PM
Found this piece from the NYTimes. It is a truly sad story. And it sounds like the whole street is getting a bad rap when in fact one sociopathic cockroach with a gun chased him here. This could happen in any neighborhood and we all know it. It just feels better to imagine it couldn't.
"Witnesses to the shooting, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because they feared the gunman, described a tumultuous scene, with gunshots ringing out while bystanders scrambled into buildings or ducked behind cars. They said the gunman shouted angrily as Mr. Sumpter lay bleeding, then walked calmly away.
One witness said that just before noon, she saw Mr. Sumpter running toward her on Clifton Place pursued by a man with a pistol. The witness said she ran through the open front door of 22 Clifton Place, which was being renovated by contractors, and looked back to see Mr. Sumpter lying prone at the top of the building’s stoop.
Then the gunman came into view, she said, standing over Mr. Sumpter and firing. The witness hid in the rear of the brownstone, she said, and heard several shots. Afterward, she said, she heard the gunman taunting Mr. Sumpter with obscenities.
“He yelled out: ‘You think I’m a joke! I told you not to play with me!’ ” she said.
Workers in the brownstone hid on the ground floor when they heard shots, then came upstairs to find Mr. Sumpter gasping on the floor, just across the threshold, said Sam Saliman, 31, from Bay Ridge, who was working inside the building.
Residents of the block remembered Mr. Sumpter yesterday as a man who had had a troubled youth but had turned his life around, moving from Clinton Hill, getting married and starting a window installation business based on Staten Island. Friends said that he and his wife had four children: a boy and three girls ages 7 to 16.
Mr. Sumpter, who grew up in Clinton Hill in the 1980s before the area became more gentrified, stayed in touch with many who remained, and involved himself in the lives of young people in his old neighborhood, paying for sneakers or haircuts, and arranging basketball games or trips to amusement parks, friends said.
Yesterday afternoon, residents of Clifton Place displayed a photograph of Mr. Sumpter, hugging two small children and smiling with delight.
“He was caring and generous,” said Janae Archer, 19. “He was somebody you looked up to.”
Standing next to her on the street, Kahif Cole, 17, agreed.
“I feel depressed,” he said. “Clifton Place is going to miss him.”
Yesterday, witnesses to the shooting of Mr. Sumpter said that they recognized his attacker, a local man who they said was rumored to carry a pair of pistols.
A woman who said she was sitting on the front steps of her building near the shooting when it took place said that she was further unnerved afterward when she saw a man, whom she presumed to be the gunman, walking slowly from the scene, making little effort to hide his identity.
“He looked very, very pleased,” she said. “He looked satisfied.”
Posted by: Nokilissa at May 29, 2008 8:26 PM
so the world ends in 2010, 6:12? Until, of course, we get to 2010 and you are still renting and these houses are nowhere near $750k? So bitter.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 8:45 PM
Uh, not exactly. He had a "window installation business an Staten Island" but hung out on Clifton Place at noon treating kids to sneakers? Don't believe everything you read in the Times. The dispute involved the activity that's gone on on that block for years, and this was not a flash in the pan. Nor was it the first shooting related to the activity at the corner.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 8:51 PM
8:45 is right. These houses might be nowhere near $750k.
They could be much, much less.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 8:56 PM
Rent check is due on Saturday!
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 8:57 PM
8:56: So you are gonna buy a house with your WIC checks then? Didn't think so. I hope you enjoy moving repeatedly as your rent goes up but your paycheck doesn't.
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 9:01 PM
i hope you enjoy renting your $10,000 a month 1 bedroom rental when you retire!!! (which at the rate of rental increases is what the rent will be in 2035)
gonna be a little tough on a fixed income...
Posted by: guest at May 29, 2008 9:30 PM
Math is hard for Barbie (9:30).
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:27 AM
"I hope you enjoy moving repeatedly as your rent goes up but your paycheck doesn't."
Actually I am enjoying staying in the same place as my rent stays the same and my pay goes up.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:30 AM
There's nothing wrong with exposed brick. It's in fashion more often and for longer periods than it's out of fashion. Plus you have to think about the city and region for any design element. It's a total classic look of NYC buildings. Saying you don't like exposed brick is like saying you don't like brownstone facades. And maybe you don't, I prefer limestone myself, but if you really hate brownstones or exposed brick all that much you'd best move to another city. It's all over the place here. And PLEASE, any wall is better than drywall like most you all put in your gut-renovated houses. Drywall is disgusting.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:48 AM
8.57 - property taxes, mortgage insurance and mortgage were due last week. Where are they?
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 9:00 AM
they were sent in 3 weeks early, per usual.
the 300% equity in my house has helped a bit with finances these days...
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 9:47 AM
I own my house and have no mortgage, 9AM. No, I didn't inherit it, I just saved so much from owning and not renting over the years that I could pay it all off.
12:30 AM (!): Does your pay go up as you work longer and longer hours? Your rent will be going up
Nice try though, kids.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:29 AM
i'm 8:04, who lives on the block. no, 8:08, i really don't feel frightened here. i'm a woman in my 30s, moved here last year and really love it. for me, it's a nice balance - secluded enough, tree-lined block, that's still convenient to amenities like transportation, groceries (improving), and good restaurants and cafes, etc...
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 6:51 PM
I live on the block too, and unlike 8:04/6:51, have for many years. Recent arrivals who feel safe on Clifton betwen Grand and St. James are as clueless as the stroller mom someone described last year - the one who pushed her baby through the middle of a crack deal at the corner of Grand while yakking obliviously on her cell phone.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:12 PM
I'm with 8:51 and 10:12. Yes, it's a gorgeous block, feels quite homey - when they're - (the pharmaceutical entrepreneurs) taking their day naps. Otherwise, you never know what may happen. The murder happened on a beautiful quiet day, you never could have predicted it. There were no crowds, or rowdy fighting. Just all of a sudden, the mad man appeared, it truly could have happened anywhere. Anywhere where drug dealers do business. I'd say it's worth the money. I know it sounds contrary, but, the house is in good shape and the block is truly a gem. I would just hope that the owner would buy with the intention of not allowing the activity to continue. There is a silent fight taking place and I believe they will lose in the end. Believe it or not this is still Brooklyn, no matter how pretty the inside of our homes may be, and this activity exists, wherever the people that live around it, allow it to exist.
Posted by: guest at June 19, 2008 6:07 PM
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