House of the Day: 475 4th Street

Price is right. Not that it'll go for that (maybe, maybe not) but it's a good starting point. Prime location, prime condition.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:33 PM

This is a beautiful house, i bet someone would fall in love with all the original details and pay close to asking.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:34 PM

I wish it did have recessed lighting…..just to waste the entire comment area on a style preferences—really what a silly thing to hate.

Gorgeous house!

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:35 PM

I didn't go to the open house but happened to walk by on my way home from the gym and FreshNYC and noticed a buzz of activity outside this house. I almost stopped in for the fun of it.

I'm happy in my home though. Don't need another...

Yet.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:36 PM

Gorgeous house, but overpriced by $500-800K.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:38 PM

May we quote you on that, 1:38 when we find out the selling price?

I have it on good authority that more than one party at the open house yesterday are interested...

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:42 PM

Overpriced. Every open house I go to has a broker telling me that the price is negotiable. They all call the next day asking if I'd like to make an offer, any offer. That's not how they acted 6 months ago. Sellers are still making them list high, but they all say the sellers need to here the lower offers for the reality check. Didn't another house on this block just go into contract that was listed for about 2.4? I think it was only 18', but this one isn't a full 20' either.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:43 PM

Please 1:42, did anybody actually go to an open house held on Mother's Day?

I thought not.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:48 PM

The one you are referring to, 1:43 I don't believe was in move in condition like this one.

People will pay a premium to have a house like this ready to go.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 1:49 PM

Sees like 2.995 is the asking price for these houses, but what are hey actually selling for? Does anyone know what accepted offers have been on similar houses this spring market? Seems like they are al over priced, but perhaps seller are holding out hope for that one buyer who is willing to pay despite housing drop predictions?

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:01 PM

the price seems a bit high, but who am I to comment, since the listing has no floor plan, doesn't tell you how wide the house is, and basically provides no infomation. But, I remember seeing 2 houses on 6th street last summer that were as nice and about $500,000 less.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:06 PM

gorgeous house, terrible paint colors.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:10 PM

The yard is not "unusually deep." According to the floorplan it is 39'3".

The plot is typical size, but the house is just not that deep, perhaps giving the illusion of a deeper backyard.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:16 PM

It's right across from that somewhat "rough" high school. Anyone think that will affect value/bids?

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:16 PM

2:06, here...there is indeed a floorplan. My bad! But, I still think it's a bit overpriced.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:17 PM

Looks like a great house but it's relatively small, which could affect the price. I'm guessing it's a 19x40 floorplate on 19x80 lot. So the owner's triplex is less than 2300 sf and the garden rental is less than 800 sf. The garden is probably the same size as would exist for a deeper house on a deeper lot (assuming comparable width).

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:18 PM

Who cares if it's a little overpriced. It's a 3 million dollar house. Aren't we really just splitting hairs here at this point??

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:18 PM

i think it will sell for around 2.5 if the sellers dont need to move soon.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:18 PM

across from the high school. Sorry, but that merits a discount, no matter how nice the house.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:20 PM

Will close at $2,295,000.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:29 PM

1:49 "The one you are referring to, 1:43 I don't believe was in move in condition like this one.

People will pay a premium to have a house like this ready to go."

no not the one I'm thinking of. it was definitely move in. maybe needed a new kitchen for cosmetics but not 1/2 mill for that. I'll look for the listing later and repost if I can find it.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:31 PM

A house on my block when for 2.2 and the new owner gutted the building!!

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:34 PM

My neighbors just closed on a home on Lincoln Place for 2.9

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:41 PM

2:18 - "aren't we just splitting hairs here?" Well, I'm a potential buyer for this kind of house, or one that is slightly more modest (having sold some properties at the height, we can afford a house in the 2mil range). But I would hardly consider several 100K "splitting hairs". We are among those buyers who have a good amount of cash but not huge incomes, so in fact it *does* make a big difference to us whether this goes for 2.8 or 2.2 as some are predicting - that kind of difference is very significant to us. The thing that gets me is that I bet the original buyers bought this for far, far less, so even if they sold for 2 mil, they'd probably be making a *very* nice profit. As many of the owners on this list have pointed out, what do they care if prices dip 20% when the run-ups of recent years have been so huge? I say to the sellers out there - stop being so greedy and pocket your gains now!

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:43 PM

wow, 2:41, your neighbors blew a lot of dough on that house. I saw it and was completely unimpressed...not a $3 million house.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:44 PM

2:41
I imagine you are talking about the house on Lincoln that closed in December or January? That means this house went in to contract at te height of the market...correct me if you are referring to another house.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:48 PM

2:43...you DO realize that this house will not sell for 2.2, right?

probably not anywhere near to that.

the only people who think it will sell for 2.2 are renters who have no idea what 20K looks like, much less 2.2

please don't take the voice of many of these trusted idiots as fact.

if this sells for less than 2.75, I'd be incredibly shocked.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:50 PM

I'm referring to a house that was FSBO on Lincoln between 7th and 8th. I have no idea what homes you are referring to.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:51 PM

"I imagine you are talking about the house on Lincoln that closed in December or January? That means this house went in to contract at te height of the market...correct me if you are referring to another house."

exsqueeze me??

if a home closed in jan. 2008, it means it probably went to contract in nov. 2007.

is THAT what we are saying the peak is now??

NOT 2005, as has been suggested here one million times.

interesting how the peak keeps getting later and later...

very interesting...

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 2:53 PM

peak was summer 2005 except the prime areas( Park Slope and Brooklyn Heights). People who are overextended and purchased since then ae gonna get hurt

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 3:04 PM

2:43 said: "The thing that gets me is that I bet the original buyers bought this for far, far less, so even if they sold for 2 mil, they'd probably be making a *very* nice profit."

I HATE when buyers make this nonsensical point. A house's current market value and the owner's basis are completely unrelated!!! Aaaaarrrgh!!!

Google's stock is currently at $585. So if I bought my shares in 2005 at $200 I should be willing to sell my shares at less than $585 compared to someone that bought it yesterday at $572? No, of course not. BOTH sellers demand $585, the CURRENT market value.

You can argue all day if it's WORTH $585 but don't make foolish points like this.

For a guy with over a million bucks in the bank, you sure are stupid.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 3:12 PM

"For a guy with over a million bucks in the bank, you sure are stupid."

You just described most people on this blog, sadly.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 3:16 PM

Thank you 3:12.

Greed doesn't come into the equation of what a house is worth. Except on Brownstoner.

I don't know why people get so angry when they see asking prices they consider to be above market. Either a property is overpriced, in which case the seller needs to adjust their expectations, or it isn't, in which case buyers need to adjust THEIR expectations.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 3:29 PM

2:43--

So in other words, you are "a potential buyer for this kind of house"--except you don't have enough money. So they should lower the price. Because they'll probably make a big profit anyway! Otherwise they're greedy!

LOL, CLASSIC Brownstoner post. Thanks for making my day.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 4:02 PM

So, what's with the anti-recessed lighting thing? I have no preference for or against them, but I don't really get the disdain. Is it that they appear too modern, and people want to live in a house that looks like it did in the 19th century (clashes with original details)?

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 4:12 PM

A few doors down, a similar house with center stair, in admittedly gut-reno (most details intact but little else worth salvaging,) sold for $1.7 just a few months ago.

The school across the street definitely factored into the price.

I purposely saw that one at 3pm on a weekday to see what the scene would be like. It was pretty rough. It wasn't what ultimately turned me off to the building, the scale of the reno was, but I could see that being a major factor for a bidder of a nearly 3 million dollar property.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 4:21 PM

There is so much talk about the future here that is contentious. No one knows what will happen. I saw an enormous run up in real estate in the 70's in soho and tribeca that I thought was preposterous and would never stick- then I would once again be able to consider buying in one of those nabes. well it didn't work out that way.

Park Slope and all the areas of brooklyn that are relatively close to the city- offering some intrinsic value whether it be brownstones or hipness- will probably never return to 2000 prices. so anyone thinking there is going to be a crash and then you can buy, are dreaming like I once was.

Bed-Stuy, Bushwick, Greenpoint, and others are all other opportunities that will certainly improve over the next decade. If you want to wait and see at the end of the year how mush things soften- that's a fine idea- but I think the What is a science fictionist if he thinks the great depression is upon us.

AJ

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 4:36 PM

Nice staircase. At $3m, you are paying about $17,000 a month after tax to live here, in interest and/or opportunity costs, assuming you get the whole tax subsidy.

Nicer places rent for a good deal less than that. So you also need to take into account at least the possibility that the market will revert to normal rent/price relationships, as it is doing in the rest of the country.

So, on top of your $17k / mo in opportunity costs, taxes, maintenance and interest, you should be contemplating a serious risk of $1m capital loss.

Why does this make more sense than renting for $15k / month or buying in the 'burbs where the prices have already come down or waiting a year or two?

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:12 PM

4.12 - not so much that as they give the impression of a cheesy hotel conference room or a clotheswear store.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:12 PM

5:12, cause some people would rather not spend a life of solitude, destroying the environment bit by bit.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:17 PM

I agree with 5:12. It makes no sense to buy now. There will be a glut of new pricey condos soon and more and more companies are announcing layoffs. I could be wrong but the asking prices are so high now, the middle class has been so completely cut out of middle class districts, that fewer and fewer buyers are qualified to buy. Where will the steady stream of millionaires come from to fill up these formerly ordinary middle class nneighborhoods in Kings County?

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:21 PM

"Where will the steady stream of millionaires come from to fill up these formerly ordinary middle class nneighborhoods in Kings County?"

People like us who bought a 2 bedroom on the UWS for 275K in 1997 and are now selling for 2 million looking for a bigger space for our growing family. One child now, hopefully would like to have another in a year or two...

We are looking in Park Slope and have just called to set up an appt. to look at this house. We have at least 5 friends in Manhattan who are/or have done the same.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:25 PM

And, seems like inventory is picking up, no?

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:26 PM

"And, seems like inventory is picking up, no?"

Like it has every single spring since I can remember.

You're new to this, yes?

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:28 PM

"Like it has every single spring since I can remember.

You're new to this, yes?"

Not new, actually....It is just that everyone has been talking about low inventory influencing high prices....It just seems to me that things are picking up after what looked like a slow start to spring market.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:40 PM

4:36 - great point. really there are nice houses right now in Greenpoint (I don't live there personally) in good school districts that have great bones - actually in williamsburg too. if you have less money, there are great opportunities right now if you are planning to live there for years. also, even condos can present great opportunities if you get in for a low psf price. city will just get more crowded. i'm not in the market, but i'd look for a safe neighborhood with lot's of amenities with a decent not over crowded school.

my neighbors who rent in our condo building are buying in this market even because of this reasoning right now.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:47 PM

I've seen very little inventory in the PS townhouse market. A handful with each realtor, at best.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:53 PM

The Mrs. and I have been in the market for a townhouse...mainly looking in Park Slope, but open to other areas. We are both super busy and admittedly could be more agressive with our search, but our experience has been that the 3 or 4 really nice properties that we've been excited about in the past 3 months have had signed contracts by the time we got to calling the real estate agents.

There was one that we got into a bidding war on last month that we wish would have worked out, but we were not willing to go over the asking price.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 5:57 PM

Funny how the people who'll buy these houses are always relocating to Brooklyn from the Upper West Side (always referred to as UWS), always mention the year they bought their apartment, always cite their 'growing family' and always know at least five people who are doing exactly the same thing. Come on brokers, try to be a bit more creative!

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 6:08 PM

If this were in Park Slope it would be worth 50 million! Oh my bad. It's will be worth at least $50 million next year when all those Manhattan people are trying to move here! Buy now. Buy as many as you can!

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 6:33 PM

I've been in this house it's beautiful. It's Interesting how people like post 2:43 PM think it's fair for them to make a nice profit when they sell but not anyone else.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 7:20 PM

"but our experience has been that the 3 or 4 really nice properties that we've been excited about in the past 3 months have had signed contracts by the time we got to calling the real estate agents.

There was one that we got into a bidding war on last month that we wish would have worked out, but we were not willing to go over the asking price"

Are you kidding? You must be a broker hoping to sway a potetial buyer who is totally out of the loop. The houses that are in contract in Park Slope were sitting on the market for a while, with multiple open houses. Why the need to be dishonest? Desperate times?

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 8:06 PM

2:43 here - I actually think we did leave money on the table, but are OK with that, since we made so much more than we purchased for. We had other reasons for selling when we did, but it also seemed to make sense to pocket the gains when we could - rather than pricing things even higher and letting the property linger and/or risk a drop in value. My point is that we preferred to sell quickly and fairly (we actually had a bidding war since our place was probably a bit underpriced to start) rather than ask the moon the way some sellers seem to these days. I too have noticed that a number of townhouses we've seen (yes, in prime PS) have had brokers tell me in no uncertain terms that the prices are very negotiable - but why then start with the prices so damn high to begin with?

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 8:09 PM

desperate brokers?
are you kidding?
The hundreds of couples who are selling their 2-million dollar apartments in the Upper West Side and frantically searching for the brooklyn house of their dreams is growing every day, they are literally swarming across the Brooklyn Bridge, the great lawn in central park may be ruined by thousands of frantic west siders racing each other to get to Brooklyn first. By the end of the month the median price for a browstone will probably be up another million dollars. brokers are trying to preserve order. it's a tough job but someone has to do it.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 8:16 PM

I'm being serious that I'm finding the Park Slope townhouse market more frantic than I've seen it in a while. I think people think we are at bottom and are trying to cash out in Manhattan and upgrade to a bigger place while they can.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 8:28 PM

Not following your logic there, 8:28.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 8:32 PM

everybody knows that the only reason to buy in Manhattan is to use it as a stepping stone to eventually get to Brooklyn.

What are you brokers smoking on this site anyway?

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 8:35 PM

I live in Williamsburg and most of my Manhattan friends are not even sure which train it would take to get here, let alone ever think of stepping foot in anything farther than one accidental stop over the river on any train at all. I have one friend who is 44, born and raised in Manhattan (UWS mid 70's), and it took me 6 months of nagging to get him to come visit me. He finally did last month and said it was the first time in his life to ever leave Manhattan except for one childhood trip to Disneyworld. The whole time it was as if he were a frightened rabbit. He refuses to come back. Said he would get lost so I have to go back over there to see him now. Another friend kept telling me how she got lost in DUMBO after taking a stop too many on the F and tried to find the A and thought she would get mugged. This was mid-day last year. She hasn't been back. Yeah, they are leaving Manhattan in droves to get here. Nice try.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:24 PM

Why are you people looking to buy in Park Slope so much.... Get out of the BOX... There are other areas in Brooklyn that have the same architecture even better in and even cheaper houses. Ft. Greene/Clinton Hill is really nice, has a great feel even Crown Heights and Stuyvesant Heights has great old brownstones better looking than this one. Yeah the schools are great in PS but if you have a 7 year old in 3rd grade you have two years of this great school and then what??? 2 years of schooling for 3 million are you guys that crazy??? Some of you "UWS" people look outside PS it is not the only place in Brooklyn

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 10:45 PM

8:28 is probably a broker or owner seeking to preserve their property value - to say the townhouse market is "frantic" and that we are "at bottom" is ridiculous. Anyone who is out there can see that prices are no way near bottom - they are still well close to the top, and while it's true that a few prime, well-priced properties are selling briskly, many others are lingering and experiencing price cuts. By the way, I'm not a bitter renter - I own but am looking to trade up so I know the market very well, and have a balanced perspective. Prices are stagnating at best now, but they are certainly not down significantly (yet), nor are they rising. But buyers are getting pickier, and cash gives a lot of leverage in this market.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 11:33 PM

10:45...I think a lot of Manhattanites look in Park Slope more often because they've become accustomed to having a certain selection of services nearby...gyms, banks, shops, restaurants, bars, dry cleaners, organic markets, real estate offices, income tax preparers, etc.

No matter what you think of Park Slope, it has these things in the greatest quantity and selection of any other Brownstone Brooklyn neighborhood, and that makes many of these people feel more comfortable, connected and secure. It's really nice to be able to walk to anything you could ever need within 15 minutes of your house. Very few people can deny that.

That is, afterall what makes Manhattan so great in a way, and the reason why a lot of people like living there over suburban and rural areas.

So city people who just need more space or are craving a little bit more fresh air and trees do seem to like Park Slope. It's still urban in a quieter kind of way. Prospect Park also has a familiarity about it, similar in a way that for many people from the Upper West Side, Central Park is a very big part of your life when you live in that neighborhood as well.

Then you've got these drippingly beautiful, handsome, gorgeous old money pits with thick moldings.

And I don't live in Park Slope for the record (but in a neighboring hood) but I have many friends who have moved there from Manhattan, a few from Europe and a few from other areas of Brooklyn. Honestly, I know there seems to be a lot of animosity towards it to a certain extent, but the people I know all seem to really love living there.

Can't say a part of me wouldn't want to, if I could swing it.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 11:51 PM

the same guy keeps posting about how all the people from the UWS will save Brooklyn's inevitable price fall. It is only a harbinger of how bad things are going to get. We can all be sure that this guy is in over his head in debt and ready to fall off a cliff.

Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 12:00 AM

yes--it is always the same person posting about the UWSiders running to Brooklyn. It's the same exact style and language, same old details, and the same kind of rebuttal when he/she is called out. It's getting old...

Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 1:23 AM

My Manhattan friends don't want to move to Brooklyn because they are afraid they will gain weight. Most of the posters here are so pragmatic, "I want a woodshop". what drives Manhattanites is prestige, cachet, and ego.
They will live in a dump in order to have the right address on their stationery.

Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 9:48 AM

8:10 you were renting cheaply all those years in Manhattan as the market roared and then bought at the top in Brooklyn? You did it the wrong way! When people from Manhattan want more space they go to NJ. Brooklyn is better for single people or young couples. WHy would anybody want to raise kids in Brooklyn? I just dont think its fair

Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 10:33 AM

Where are the pictures of the terlits and the kitheN?

Posted by: guest at May 13, 2008 1:33 PM