Co-op of the Day: 7 South Portland Avenue, #5A

www.gothamist.com

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 12:41 PM

No pics of the bedroom--it must be tiny. You can assume that if the broker doesn't show them. This place is no larger than 450 sq feet---they want $950/sq foot for this? A little too ambitious, even on such a wonderful street.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 12:46 PM

Not bad. I'm now numb to these high prices. The only drawback is the three flights of stairs. That brownstone's a beauty.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 12:48 PM

"No pics of the bedroom--it must be tiny"

It's not bad. See floorplan.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 12:50 PM

Offer 399K then, if you get it you could do a lot worse for the money.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 12:56 PM

The boxy 80s vibe is probably due to the fact that it's a box that was built in the 1980s. I can see the roof of this building from my roof, and it has an addition that would match this interior to a T.

ROOF GARDEN!

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:01 PM

is this a walk-up? that one in brooklyn heights from a few months ago was so much nicer, and had a parking spot! for this same price

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:07 PM

Wait, it says: "Facing east and north towards the park, your afternoon light streams in just beautifully."

I know it's a magical block, but um, not THAT magical.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:08 PM

Check it: FIVE STORY WALK UP.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:09 PM

Brownstoner, you are off base here. The market for one-bedrooms is comprised of a lot of people looking for something livable, with decent sized rooms, that they don't have to reonovate. (While there's no bathroom pic, the kitchen, however un-chic, is livable and clean-looking.) Many of those folk are indifferent to whether it is in an old building with detail, or a newer building (or reno in an old one) without detail.

This will sell, and sell well, to someone who is not put off by a fifth-floor walk-up. They are out there. The top floorness of it - meaning no noise from above waking you up - is a big selling point (to the fit among us who can climb stairs), as is the wonderful light you get up there.

No, not a broker, but an astute former buyer.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:09 PM

Although there are certain advantages for a 5 story walk up, this limits interest to the select fit few who want to deal with this everyday--multiple times a day. Knowing that it is indeed a 5th story walkup makes $425K a pricechopper!

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:14 PM

It's a breathtaking location, but also a breathtaking way up.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:15 PM

1:08 I thought the same thing. Have to bring a compass to the open house.

As for everyone bitching about the walk up - how lazy are you people? You probably have gym memberships and may even use them but the thought of having to walk up the stairs is overwhelming. Funny how nobody says "but the bedrooms are 4 flights up" when there's a 4 story HOTD. The fact is having this 5th floor walk up means you get all the light/views and no arguments with your upstairs neighbor about wearing shoes when walking around on your ceiling.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:17 PM

Surprised they didnt have pics of the roof garden--that's a HUGE AMMENITY, especially since it seems like it's yours as you are on the 5th floor already!

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:19 PM

Come on guys, it has a friggin GARDEN and is literally feet from Ft Greene park, which I adore and run in every day (best running in NY, the perfect short steep hills).

Besides, what a great sex pad, if you think about it. By the time you get your date up there, he/she is begging to lie down and relax.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:20 PM

I am currently shopping for an apartment right now in the studio and small 1 bedroom market. Budget of 400K or under.

What I can tell you right now is that there is VERY little on the market in this price range in the neighborhoods I am looking at...namely Ft. Greene and Park Slope.

Now I don't know if it's because some people are trading down or that there are more first time buyers in the marketplace right now, but I've been overbid now on TWO studios in Park Slope in the last month. One was asking 339K and another 375K. Both I'm guessing went for over those prices.

Those were studios. This place looks bigger and I'd be all over it in a second and put in a lower offer (although not sure I'd get it) except I am really looking for a place with a little more detail and old world charm. Some don't care about that though.

I've watched the prices at the Griffin...on Lafayette not far from here. In 2006, studios were selling for 249K-275k, and those same places are now selling for about 325K or so.

So while the rest of the market might be tanking, this 400K and under market I am in seems quite ok.

I'm supposed to take a look at another studio this week in North Slope.

Just hope I don't get overbid again!!!

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:22 PM

I live on the block and know some of the people who live in this building, and it's a cool group, mostly young and chill. There's a couple of cranks, as in any co-op, but in general, really nice energy.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:22 PM

best block in the city....hahahahahah

Fort green lets settle down alitle bit...

If you like shopping on flatbush..

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:24 PM

The apartment is ok for what it is, the kitchen (and I imagine the bathroom) could use updating. Walking up to the 5th floor is not a lot of fun (especially moving in) but since it is a 1-bed it will attract younger people without kids, so no stroller issues.

However, since it is on the top floor, instead of lovely large windows like the lower floors, it only has the small dormer windows- perhaps you get ok light, but those windows are tall, and you're not getting much of a view (and probably not a whole lot of light either).

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:26 PM

1:24 I wish it weren't true, so we wouldn't be getting all those tour groups on the weekend. But unfortunately, it's like a parade up and down here on the weekend with people gawking and taking pictures. It's nice to know the area is appreciated but honey, don't tell me to settle down. Tell the looky-loos to settle down!

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:26 PM

This is a cute little rental for someone starting out. Not sure how good an investment it would be to buy it.
It really is very basic. People wanting to buy usually want a little more but for 370 or 380 I guess it is OK. The 500 a month maintenance is not a bargain either for such a liliputian apartment.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:28 PM

Re: 5th Floor walk-up

I was just on the phone with my mother while I was reading this and said...mom...how many times do you walk up and down the stairs (they live in the typical 4 bed 2 1/2 bath colonial in the burbs) and she said...oh I don't know...10 or 15 times a day at least. And she's approaching 60, btw.

So anyone complaining about walking up these stairs a couple times a day simply wants to find something wrong and is a negative person, in my opinion.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:29 PM

Dave,

Thanks for the suggestion. When I first saw this, I thought about it, but I really want something with a little more charm. The two studios I bid on in Park Slope were just adorable...arched doorways, gorgeous molding, the old floors, some great details. I know I can't have it all for 400K, but after seeing those, I know it's what I want.

The one I'm supposed to look at this week in PS looks charming so I'm holding my breath.

I suppose I could always add some details to this place, but I'd already be stretching my budget thin.

And to be perfectly frank, I LOVE Ft. Greene, but I love Park Slope more. Especially the named streets up by the Park. I'm a huge Prospect Park fan and I love the Greenmarket and 5th Avenue.

I'm sure I'd be happy in either neighborhood, but given a choice, I'd much rather be in PS. That's just me.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:34 PM

1:29 you are not that bright...

One flight of stairs is no problem but 5 flights is brutal and gets old very quick...

Your MOM in the burbs goes up and down flights all day which is no problem when its one flight of stairs... But when you forget something and need to run up 5 flights and down 5 flights it sux and will always hurt the resale...

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:43 PM

as a single guy i would never live in this. the drunk girls i bring home would be sober after the 3rd flight up. I would live in this at no price

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:50 PM

it's also five flights carrying your groceries, briefcase, luggage when you travel, laundry, etc etc. People do it, it is not unusual, but it needs to be taken into consideration when setting a price. I agree that this would be a fine place to rent for a year, but to buy? Not so much.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:51 PM

This price seems fine to me. Even if you paid asking and borrowed 80% at 7%, and assuming a 30% income tax level your after tax outgoings including the maintenance are only $1,832 per month.

Add to that your loss of income on your $85k deposit and you're still only out of pocket $2328 per month and less of course because that's assuming a 7% after tax return on your 20% deposit.

All up that seems a very fair price to pay to live in this area, in an apartment this size, plus you have the upside to come from slowly working on the kitchen and bathroom which will only help your asset appreciate.

Sheesh it sure beats renting.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 1:57 PM

it will definitely sell for over 400k

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:03 PM

Also, the top floors of these houses get stuffy as HELL in the summer. Better have a major league AC.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:04 PM

In the apartment's defense, it is really only 4 flights, and one of them is the outside "stoop".

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:05 PM

I don't think it will sell for over 400K
no way.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:05 PM

Ok, can we settle this floor issue? Clearly some people thing lower is better and some think upper is better. Who on here lives in a walk-up coop building where upper floors sell for less than lower floors? In mine the top floor apts with the same layout sold for $50k+ more than the lower floors sold in the same 6 months, but the top floors have exclusive roof rights. Anyone have examples of identical apts selling on different floors in the same year?

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:13 PM

Given that a few posters seems to be saying that studios are selling for around 350K, I think it's fair to say that this should sell for over 400K..

No?

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:16 PM

Yes, but I live in a building with an elevator.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:16 PM

I prefer non-elevator/doorman buildings myself.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:20 PM

I lived in a 4th floor walkup when I was in my early 20s and I have to say I hated it. Hauling laundry, groceries and my bike was such a pain. Never mind the few times I was in a drunken stupor and climbing those stairs was barely manageable. Now that I'm in my late 30's there is no way I would live in a walkup.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:26 PM

When I bought a second floor (of 4), floors 3 and 4 had just sold recently - and each floor got a little more pricey you went lower. The broker told me that's how it usually went (news to me, as I prefered top floors for the quiet and light.) May have just been broker-speak, but I think she was right as these things generally go. (I sold for more than the third floor did too, just after it sold.) The difference you speak of in your place was probably due to roof rights - they are worth a lot if you have plans to build a deck and spend time up there (they weren't assigned to anyone in my building). It is hard to compare apartments, because all renos tend to be somewhat different from each other.

As I was getting older and my knees less amenable to climbing - I passed on floor 4 (might have taken it if it had W/D in it, but the fact that they were all the way in the basement put me off.) Never regretted going for the second floor instead - although I had some noisy neighbors above wake and keep me up some nights, and my knees have recovered and are fine now, I find that groceries, laundry, luggage, and everything else one lugs, only get heavier as I get older.

And I passed on a similar apartment to this in P.S. when I was looking - no way I wanted a 5th floor! It did sell, though, to the right buyer.

Though I missed that there was a shared garden above this one - if it was directly above this apartment, that would lower its value to me - you hear people on decks when they are right above you.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:31 PM

this apartment was previously listed for 450K last fall, and sat for quite awhile before the cut. nice building in great location, but prices are dropping...

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:36 PM

$375k this year, $325k next year.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:49 PM

They're asking 1000/psf. A little high, no?

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:52 PM

4th floor walk ups - with groceries, bikes and all - didn't phase me at all in my 20's and 30's - and I lived in a few of them for years. They were very light and fairly quiet. In my 40's however, I didn't want it anymore. At 50, living in my first elevator building (still top floor, light and quiet) and loving it.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:52 PM

and 500K in 2011.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 2:53 PM

I went to see this place at an open house last year and it's nice and on a great block and I'm used to tiny spaces, but one thing that got me is that it's like an attic and the windows are set back a little from the building.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 3:08 PM

"They're asking 1000/psf. A little high, no?"

The apartment is 550 square feet.

That is $772 psf.

Your lack of math skills leads me to believe that is the reason you are still a renter.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 3:13 PM

I like living high up in walk ups. the view is better and the chance of your apartment getting jacked is much lower.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 3:32 PM

Very interested in the "value of the floor" discussion. I bought last year on the ground floor of a 4 floor walk up and a unit on the top floor will become available next month. Wondering how much that would go for. I figured about 25-50k less than what I paid due to all the stairs. No roof rights up there either.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 3:42 PM

I lived in a fifth-floor walk-up for my first eight years in this city and I was in perfect physical shape for running up exactly four flights of stairs -- but if I visited a friend in a sixth-floor walk up, I was winded when I got there. You adjust. Only someone young is buying a place this size, so I wouldn't worry about it.

That said, I know of a walk-up co-op where the number of shares for each floor was slightly less than for the floor above, so that each floor paid less in maintenance that the floor below.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 4:08 PM

Who are you people who drag your bikes upstairs. If your coop doesn't have basement bike storage it sucks and isn't worth anything anyhow. Honestly, I wouldn't even buy a place without a washer dryer in the unit. As for groceries, that's why I tip those fresh direct guys.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 4:16 PM

I am not fam. with that area but for a 5th floor walk up I would have to say this wont sell at this price for another 10-15 years

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 4:17 PM

This will be sold in 2 weeks.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 4:28 PM

Where are you guys finding the sq/footage?

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 5:18 PM

"The apartment is 550 square feet."

Work on your own math skills, Einstein. It's between 425-450 sf.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 5:20 PM

"It's between 425-450 sf"

No it's not.

Go measure it and get back to me.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 5:22 PM

Annoying that they don't just list it.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 5:29 PM

This place is cute and on my best block in all of NYC but I have to agree the pricing is a little too aggressive given that it is a 5th floor walk-up. Walk-ups appreciate very slowly in value so even if you don't mind climbing all those stairs now when its time to sell you will have to compromise. I think a fair price for this place is $380K TOPS.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 6:10 PM

1:57 has it right.

If NY real estate stays stable for a few years, this place costs you the same as renting for $2300. That is probably more than you'd pay to rent it, but not much. The difference is what you are paying for the privilege of ownership: the right to profit (or lose) if prices go up (or down) and the right to control (and pay for) the renovations.

In rational markets, people are paid for taking risk. This isn't a rational market, but you aren't paying much for taking on the risk, presumably because Dave et al still think that the only risk in real estate is that prices will go up.

No magic to making money in real estate, except not overpaying. Here, you are only overpaying by 20% or so. So you are probably only starting out 6 or 7 years behind; less if high income people continue to take an ever higher percentage of the national income and this apartment really is attractive to the wealthiest 1/2%. That's not bad at the end of the largest run up in NYC history.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 6:10 PM

I walk up and down in our house sometimes constantly on the weekend.

Frankly, sometimes my legs hurt (long day sitting in front of a computer) and other days I don't even notice until I'm on the fourth floor wondering how I got upstairs so fast.

I admit, I've been looking at all these mod, new apartments for sale and kind of pondering what it would be like living without stairs (maybe just stairs in a duplex) but I have to say, I kind of like a house and not having anyone tromping around making noise. Has gotten to the point I get irked by noise through the party wall or when the husband-unit is tromping around overhead or on the stairs.

Now, the whole floor/price thing I thought corresponds to the parlor floor being more expensive because of ceiling heights and possible detailing (mantles, mouldings, etc.) but if the ground floor does not have any real access to the garden, I would imagine it would be worth less than an upper floor that would have more light, no?

This house is right on/by DeKalb which is noisy with traffic. Yes, South Portland got featured in, what was it (?) Time Out, as NYC's best brownstone block. It's okay but lugubrious and the entrance from Lafayette has the cruddy bodega there (making tons of dough not from selling food and beer apparently).

One note someone made above, yes, this apartment is probably very hot in summer whent he sun shines down and heats up the roof.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 6:18 PM

if you are irked by hearing the husband-unit tromping around your house, you've got worse problems than thinking about real estate..

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 6:29 PM

The husband-unit has huge, flat feet. The noise on the stairs is unbelievable. I swear he's damaging the staircase. I mean, I understand, the balls of his feet extend beyond the front of each tread. It's like wearing flippers.

BTW, is "thinking about real estate" a problem?

Anyway, I'll admit that, yes, I'm irked by the noise through the party wall (music, yelling and some very loud weird, sort of mechanical noises at regular hours late at night).

Am irked by people opening their SUV and car doors when they know they haven't disarmed their alarms. Irked by excessive traffic and through-trucks which are not allowed on our street but have become epidemic. Irked by screaming teens carrying on in the street. Irked by police helicopters circling for 30 minutes overhead. Whatever. But I haven't moved...

Thank goodness there is no one tromping overhead...that would do me in. I've had friends contending with excessively noisy, floor pounding neighbors and it is horrible.

Having upstairs neighbors marching back and forth over your head or doing jumping jacks at 2AM is a real nerve-wrecker.

I would take a top-floor apartment--definitely!

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 6:47 PM

6:18 - When you say lugubrious what do you mean? It's a really interesting description if you look it up.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 9:06 PM

I have noticed that people who say they would rather live in walk-up non-doorman buildings are usually people who could not afford a doghouse. Of course they would not mind a walkup, they do not have two quarters to rub together. People with more wherewithall appreciate amenities and will seek out quality.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 10:30 PM

The condescension here (by an ignorant person who can't even spell wherewithal!) is laughable. Yes, some people do have money, but they aren't interested in paying for the services of an elevator building, because they don't care about them, and would rather spend that money elsewhere (or save it.) That shouldn't be too hard for an ignoramus to understand....but I guess it is. More expensive is not always better.

Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 11:58 PM

Re: Top floor apartments vs. lower floors:

Worth the Climb [NY Times]
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/realestate/11cov.html

In the current real estate market, top-floor walk-ups may well be the best deals. They can also be quiet spaces that are flooded with light and that have open views of the city, especially if they peek out above their surrounding neighbors. In some cases, they also have a deck or terrace that can become an outdoor living room with the twinkling night sky as a backdrop.

“In a market where you have more competition because you have more listings, the price on any apartment with a disadvantage — like a fifth-floor location or high maintenance charges or an awkward layout — may get penalized,” said Jonathan J. Miller, the president of Miller Samuel, an appraisal firm. “But that means the buyer can get a good deal.”

Posted by: guest at May 17, 2008 3:09 PM